In the old timeline becoming a cyborg was the most interesting thing that happened to Smoke, it made him interesting by becoming a tragic character. In the new timeline Smoke seems like filler, they decided not to go the cyber route which would have been fine had they not killed him off without his doing anything meaningful. If he were to return I would prefer they go with his enenra form, I could see him being a sub-boss and they might even be able to recover some of the tragic element of his character in that it could be something he struggles to overcome.

All that was done, is they switched Sub-Zero and Smoke. Was just a twist to see something new done as Sub-Zero was never a cyborg until MK9. It wasn't anything major though.
Since they did that, why didn't their stories change as well for the twist? Smoke should have been going after Scorpion and Subby....well, just did what Smoke had did during his story in the past.

That's not true, that's the whole problem.

In the original, the story was about the Cyborgs hunting down the one who escaped, so Sub was all angsty about being forced to fight his best friend and trying to free him from his programming.

Nowhere in MK9 does Smoke have to fight Cyber-Sub or feel guilty that he couldn't save him from being turned into a robot. As soon as Cyber-Sub shows up, he has only ONE fight as a programmed bad guy, against Kabal, a character he has nothing to do with, and as soon as he's defeated, the heroes de-program him and he becomes a good guy again. Smoke's barely even IN Cyber-Sub's scenes. He just stands in the background and has only like two lines!

Still better to be filler with your own personality, rather than secondary character with only exactly one thing making you interesting.

I'd like to see him as his MKD alternate form. I like the demon look.

Fair enough, I prefer secondary character Smoke with one thing making him interesting (struggle to overcome programming) than filler Smoke with not all that much personality who died before making much of an impact.

Angsty? Where and when?

Yeah, his struggle was so important to the story...the whole...one time. Two, at best, if you count whatever weak "struggle" there was in his ending in MKD. And even then, in the ned, it didn't lead to anything of notice.

And saying that he didn't had any kind of personality in MK9...is laughable at best. What kind of personality he had before? "Being Smoke is suffering"? "Permanent victim"? It's not a personality. It's a one-note joke, which quickly get tiresome.

What kind of impact Smoke did in the story before? He was found in Kahn's basement by Noob Saibot. And then...did nothing of importance, just being Noob's slave. What a great impact, what a great character!!



I just don't understand it. Smoke didn't had any kind of backstory and absolutely zero personality before MK9. His only claim to fame was that he was some sort of grey cyber Scorpion in MK3 and that's it. His story was that of perpetual woobie, with no personality or anything beyond that. In MKD it was not even his story, it was Noob's.
How this could be more interesting, than having him as a fully developed character with his own backstory, personality, powers? Is it some sort of strange loyalty out of empty misplaced nostalgia? I just don't get it.

I find that strange that somebody can like character, for being pretty much empty nothing. It's illological and doesn't make sense.

If we talkied about designs and powers, than there would have been some sort of substance. But when it comes to Smoke pre-MK9 personality...there is realy very little, if anything at all.

A hyperbolic word choice, I'll admit.

But there's more character in Sub and Smoke's MK3 bios and endings about Sub ACTIVELY thinking about Smoke's capture, wanting to save him, believing Smoke's soul can still be reached inside the machine and TALKING him into regaining his memories and breaking his programming, than there is in Kabal knocking Sub out and Jax fixing him in a single scene and Smoke doing NOTHING in MK9.

Plus, noncanon though it is, there's still the Defenders of the Realm episode which actually showed it as a heroic escape from the clan compound where one of them had to stay behind to cover the other's escape, and Sub feels survivor's guilt and regret and shit, which is just plain better drama than FORGETTING ALL ABOUT IT after a one-second-long scene of having a sad facial expression like Smoke does in 9.

When a terrible cable TV children's cartoon from 1996 depicts the events described in the game with both more accuracy AND more emotion than a serious remake made in 2011 does? You've got a big problem.



Did he have one though? Could you describe it for me?

See, that's my actual problem. You keep arguing about how the MK9 version is automatically better because it gave him a personality...but it didn't! If it had, maybe we'd finally have something to agree about for once, because 9 DID give OTHER characters a personality for the first time, like Stryker. It certainly TRIED to give Jade one, though I don't think it turned out well, but at least they TRIED. But Smoke is a complete NOTHING in the game. His bio and ending gave him an origin story, sure, but an origin is not a personality and NONE of that origin ever comes up in the cutscenes, where the actual story is told.
I wouldn't mind the role reversal so much if they replaced Smoke being a robot with something of substance. But in story mode, Smoke is the most underdeveloped, bland, cipher, NPC of a character in the whole game. Baraka, Reptile, and Sheeva are more developed and you don't even play as any of them, and Reptile doesn't even talk! But his body language tells you more about him than we learn about Smoke's emotions, motivations, thoughts, feelings, or behavioral tics, because he HAS NONE.
His only character trait is "Sub-Zero's friend", the same one he had in MK3. Except LESS because he accepts Raiden's orders and moves on SO EASILY when Sub is captured and has ZERO active role in Cyber-Sub's rescue.

Or the other possibility what you dread altogether is that they do not aim to hit as high. Or they never did.

"It sucks on purpose" doesn't excuse the fact that something sucks. Especially when versions of it have not sucked in the past.

I respect your strong feelings on the matter but it caused you to make unsubstantiated claims. For one I never said Smoke was a great character or had much personality I said he was more interesting (imo) in the previous timeline than what we got in MK9. Also you say that my claim that he has no personality in MK9 (which I didn't say btw, I said "not all that much personality") is laughable but then you provide no examples of this personality Smoke allegedly received.
I agree that his backstory and new powers were a welcome addition but his story impact was practically non-existant, you explained your dissatisfaction with Smoke's story in the old-timeline, fine, but is switching places with Sub-Zero then dying before doing anything of note not to mention not even fighting Sub-Zero before he is freed from his programming really that much better? If you think so fine but I don't see it, and its not some "strange loyalty out of empty misplaced nostalgia"

@ RazorsEdge701
Oh, I thought you wanted to ignore me, since, in your words I am troll who want to get on your nerves or something...
But since you directly adressed me, I entertain you with my answers.


That's...I don't even understand this question.
Smoke was active participant of the story and he was not a dummy, brickwall or a cyberpuppet. He had his own chapter, voice actor, lines, he talked with others, so it obviously, he did HAD some personality.

I am not sure, if this is your blind fanboism for the past make you talk such things or it's just personal and genuine oddity of interpretation, but like it or not, Smoke did had personality in MK9. Generic? Maybe. But still, he had one. And this is the fact.

His personality was that of an slightly arrogant warrior. Not the most unique thing, but on the other hand, quite a progress comparing to his past.


I am not sure...should I be jealous because you have such awesome 'shrooms or seriously worried about your mental health. No really.
One thing is stating that Smoke had generic personality or that it was badly telegraphed in the game, but completely another - is saying that he didn't had any. I can agree with first assessment, but second sounds like some wishfull thinking.


My mind...I am speechless.
The whole thing sounds like inane fanboish crazy rant in vain of classic "RUINED FOREVER". Not it that would be novelty for you, but this one takes the cake. Never thought of you as Smoke's fanboy, though,...but I guess you learn new things everyday. Usually you at least provided some sort of substance for your "takes" on the situations, now this is just of the wall hateful collection of letters.

But whatever delusions makes you happy. Answering seriously for this "text" is like trying to convince a person in the zoo, that gray elephant in the cage is not a pink one.

@ Solifuge


I don't have strong feelings on the matter. I just trying to understand another point of view, as usual.

Example about Smoke's personality is above and I still don't understand how character, who hadn't done anything of note, who, for most of the story, was just attachement for another characters can be interesting in his own right more than version of the same character with personality and backstory.
If we talk about potential - MK9 Smoke has limitless potential since he is not a cyborg attachement for another character...Well, of course his dead (but so is pre-MK9 Smoke), but in MK'verse it is rather minor inconvinience, than some really big problem.


In case of Smoke's story it was trading empty bag for empty bag. He hadn't done anything interesting before MK9 and he hadn't done anything of note in MK9 either. So, his pre-MK9 storyline and MK9 story are equal in their no-notability.
However, in MK9 he had received backstory, name and personality. So, those things make his MK9 incarnation slightly more interesting, rather than his pre-MK9 one. At least, Smoke now has more character, than before. It counts for something. At least in my book.

I apologize and didn't read it over before I posted it. "Should have" was supposed to be after "just".

Well your posts the past couple weeks have been surprisingly peaceful and devoid of your usual tendency to attack every single person you respond to or repeat a rote-memorized rhetoric calling everyone you disagree with fanboys obsessed with nostalgia, so I thought I'd give you another chance, since I'm genuinely, seriously curious what personality traits someone could interpret out of Smoke's scenes in MK9.

Unfortunately, you've disappointed me yet again by going back to the well with the personal insults instead of having a calm conversation like a mature adult.



Just because a character has lines doesn't mean those lines express anything about him as a person. That's the problem, the writing in his scenes is surprisingly bland and devoid of expression compared to EVERY OTHER CHARACTER in the entire Story Mode, whose dialogues are fairly packed with tics and traits unique to that character.

"A generic personality" and "no personality" are two terms that mean the same thing.

Smoke is SO underwritten, in fact, that his LACK of emotional content or participation in events that should be important to him becomes contradictory to his own fucking bio.

Compare the relationship between Smoke and Sub-Zero to the one between Jade and Kitana:

Both Smoke and Jade are defined by the fact that they've been friends with a more important character since they were little, that they value this person a great deal. But Jade's ALSO a slave to Shao Kahn and at first, chooses to serve him and not question her orders, even when that puts her in conflict with her dear friend...until the point where that friend's life is in danger, at which point, Jade's priorities are immediately clear: she puts Kitana first and does EVERYTHING in her power to save her at the cost of making herself a traitor.

Now look at Smoke, whose bio actually makes him sound CLOSER to Sub-Zero than Jade is to Kitana because Jade is just Kitana's handmaiden/bodyguard, while the Lin Kuei is "his only family" and Kuai Liang is "like a brother" to him.

In Story Mode, Smoke's ONLY reason for coming to Outworld is to help Kuai find out who killed Bi-Han. However, unlike Kitana and Jade who share several scenes together and conversations with one another, Smoke and Sub IMMEDIATELY split up hoping to find the info they're after more effectively that way...which makes sense, but robs us of seeing them interact beyond this briefest of moments, thus never really establishing the dynamics of their friendship onscreen. Smoke also completely drops his mission to help Sub the moment he meets Raiden and is asked to fight for Earthrealm. He also immediately obeys Raiden and doesn't even ARGUE when Raiden forces him to stand by and watch Sub be captured. He only looks regretful about it for a SECOND before moving on to the next scene where he's apparently forgotten all about it. He doesn't talk about it, he doesn't continue looking sad or guilty, he doesn't spend any of the later invasion fighting cyborgs or doing ANYTHING to rescue Cyber-Sub, he only shows up for a split second after Cyber-Sub is defeated by Kabal to advocate reprogramming him and then IMMEDIATELY returns to being the least seen, least heard, least important character on Raiden's team until he gets his fuckin' neck broke by Sindel.

Apparently he doesn't care about this dude who's "like a brother to him" very much after all, huh?



Finally, an actual answer to the question. That's progress, I guess.

I wish you could have pared down your entire post to JUST THIS since the rest is a bunch of unnecessary grandstanding and insulting that had nothing to do with the question I asked you, but I guess this is the best you can do, so I'll be thankful for that much.

Problem is...I'm not sure I can agree that it's true.

What makes you think he's showing arrogance, and that arrogance is displayed strongly enough to call it an actual character trait being established and not a fluke? Because he insults Kitana once before he fights her? You do realize how little that is to go on? I mean, if he was snarky or glib with everyone he fought all game long, fine, it would be undeniable, "Smoke's the cocky ninja", you'd have a point. But if that had happened, I'd never be here arguing "Smoke doesn't have a personality".

One or two lame throwaway lines that're not even THAT arrogant sounding, that sound like they literally could have come out of the mouth of ANY CHARACTER IN THE GAME, does not do anything to define a dude's personality.
And just to make it clear, I am not saying, and never DID say, that MK3 Smoke had more personality or was more developed.
(I have said that what happened to him made SUB-ZERO more developed, and that the EVENTS that happened TO them in the old timeline were more detailed and generated far better emotion and drama than those in MK9...but that's another matter entirely, having nothing to do with Smoke's individuality and mental characteristics or lack thereof.)
My point would be that MK3 Smoke vs. MK9 Smoke, in terms of comparing personalities, is a zero-sum game. NEITHER is more developed than the other because BOTH are complete ciphers in the personality department. And that this is a problem because a character not having a personality is excusable in an arcade fighter with no narrative scenes, it's not excusable in a game that has 2 hours of fully animated and voice acted cutscenes AND individualized intro animations and mid-match speech clips.

I agree that receiving some of his backstory made him more interesting but the backstory is not dependent on his remaining human or the storymode development we saw for Smoke. If Smoke had undergone automation and had a story more similar to the previous timeline it would not negate the backstory we were given in MK9. I guess what I'm trying to say is that my original post was not a wholesale dismissal of the character but rather that the development he received in storymode, in my opinion, was inferior to that which we saw in the previous timeline making him seem less distinct.

If his MK 2011 ending is to be believed, Smoke's demise by Sindel would be his second death.

I like to see a sort of combination of both human and cyborg. What about something along the line of his Enenra form gone batshit crazy, and the only way to contain it and Smoke's sanity is some form of (temporary) cyber-suit?

You completely misunderstood what I said.

They never bothered to go that deep or that detailed into the background. They simply drily stated the facts and that was it. Never did I imply that they purposefully wanted to make it suck.

I can understand where you're coming from but if you think about it, in MK very few characters have impact in the actual story. Ermac for example did nothing extraordinary in Story mode, yet he made an impact to the fans somehow. That's why he is highly demanded right now.
It's how a character is presented Imo. Smoke as you said had little to no relevance in the previous games but that didn't stop him from having fans. The whole victim thing you are talking about can actually attract fans to his character and it actually did. Personally, I liked his portrayal as a tragic character. It added some depth to a story that was full of the same old revenge, vendetta stuff. Was it of any importance to the story? Certainly not. But it still gave him some originality points at the time.

In all honesty I'm torn about this. I really like Cyber-Smoke, I always have. I hated how many people loved his All-Smoke form in Deception and Armageddon when his cyborg body was so much cooler!

However, I really liked the way Smoke played in MK9. He was fast and agile, which wouldn't make much sense for a robit.

As I said before, it was trade of empty baf for empty bag.
Ermac actually was cool even before MK9 so he had quite an advantage. He had his own personality, his own (interesting) story, made impact in the past (MKD ending) and awesome abilities. In MK9 he was quite a bit more prominent than Smoke, though not by much.


That's the problem I have with Smoke pre-MK9. His presentation sucked. He was basically slave with nothing else going on for him.
His "being Smoke is suffering" shtick could attract some fans, but I think he was drowned in that shit for too long, and it has become redundant. Yeah, he is a slave. What next? Nothing. What a progress! Not.
I don't understand why people want return of this thing post-MK9. Wasn't there enough of it in the original continuity?

That's a willfully ignorant description of the Tobias years.

I feel like we've had this argument before, which means I'm about to repeat something I already told you and it apparently didn't take the first time, so I'm guessing you refuse to believe the truth of it, but I'll say it anyway: He's repeatedly given interviews and twitter statements where he said that his intentions for the story exceeded the amount of text space the bios and endings gave him and that's why they did the mail order comics, that's why so many details that people THINK were invented by the movie actually came from him, etc.



Cyber-Sub is a great deal more fast and agile than regular Sub. Cyrax is also incredibly agile, some of his kicks border on Capoeira.

The cyberninjas are so advanced that there's no real reason for them to move slow and clunky.
Also, Smoke's speedy moves are all teleport specials, which is a power he has in either form.

Okay, I can't keep up with these past few encyclopedia-length posts, so I did some skimming before adding my $0.02.

Smoke definitely had one of the better backstories in MK3, and anyone who thinks otherwise is only fooling themselves. His being robotized threw people for a curve initially because he was only known as a blink-and-he's-gone human palette-swap ninja. Adding Noob to the mix worked somewhat, but it got boring thereafter.

I agree with the poster(s) who said that Smoke took a big step backwards in MK9. He had nothing to do except be a bumbling idiot who mistook Mileena for Kitana in the story mode before suffering a completely nondescript demise. We're expected to believe that he and Sub were BFFs, yet there was no sense of that at all other than them being Lin Kuei. Shit, after that one brief meeting on the beach, they're not seen together again until around the third act.

Someone here said (I believe) that there should have been something to the effect of Smoke feeling a sense of guilt over Sub-Zero's being automated and Smoke's decision to not defy Raiden's orders and help his friend in Kahn's arena anyway, even at the possible cost of his own life. Heck, in the cartoon, as derided as it is, Smoke willfully stayed behind to buy Sub-Zero time for him to escape the Lin Kuei, though it meant sealing his own doom. Anyway, then they duke it out in the ensuing SM match, I guess (hey, if Jax and Cage can fight over something as stupid as Cage's motormouth...), but, fight or no fight, THAT angle would have ruled. Instead, Smoke disappears for a long period of time before magically reappearing after Kabal (why him, of all people?) beats the stuffing out of CSZ. Then he asks Sub later, "How do you feel?" I was like, what? He got turned into a cyborg. How do you think he felt??

One reason why Tobias jumped ship was probably because he felt that expressing his storyline ideas got to the point where it was like yelling in a crowded room. The Shaolin Tournament in the story mode would've been handled a hell of a lot better and the fight booking throughout would've been more coherent, I tell you.

I'll submit that my boy did have one of MK3's better plot structures, but he barely existed as a character. MK9 gave him a backstory and a wee bit of personality - just a bit - but I'd be lying if I said it did a great job of it.

Wouldn't call him an idiot over mistaking Mileena for Kitana. Hell, Mileena was able to impersonate her in the old timeline and claim the throne for a bit; everyone in the whole of the MK universe is apparently incapable of distinguishing the two for some stupid reason.

MK9 did him a few favors and built him a bit, but it didn't exactly make him shine as a character. He needed a fight against CSZ; more interaction with him, and he didn't get it. Criminally underwritten indeed; just the epitome of wasted potential. They could have done more with him.

I wouldn't use any of this as an excuse to just retread old ground and turn him Cyber again, though. They've made their bed for him and given us the enenra angle; that's where the plot focus for him should go now when he returns.

Raiden literally says the words "that's not Kitana" at the top of his voice, and Smoke completely ignores it.
So I guess Sumac was sorta right, dude DOES gain ONE personality trait in MK9: he has a learning disability.
Hooray for characterization.