I'm not the only one who thinks this?!!

Thank god...

Definitely not. Deadly Alliance and Deception had some extremely deep stories. Konquest mode also helped as well with fleshing out those particular worlds, Even MKDA's Konquest mode while just a training mode was still giving juicy bits and pieces of info that helped add to the story. Deception's Konquest elevated it by turning it into a complete open world filled with so many rich details.


The combinations of Konquest mode, Bios, and Arcade endings just gave a surplus of so many story details to chew on that it was way more satisfying than a repetitive "Cut scene fight cut scene fight cut scene fight" story mode could provide.

the real tragedy is thar we are never going to get a proper third chapter in that story. Armageddon wad clearly NOT what they were setting up with Deception.

I think it's roughly 50-50. Tobias did a great job storywise with the digitized fighting games. It was in MK4 when the chinks in his armor started showing up. The character designs were rather ordinary, backstories were weak and the endings were atrocious, and maybe he was irked at having to retcon Scorpion's storyline from the one spawned from his MKII ending. (Whoever said that he probably didn't want to keep drawing Scorpion forever hit the nail on the head.) Then MKM:SZ and Special Forces, and the rest is history. 1998-2000 was the worst era in the history of the franchise by far.

And let's not forget either that he contributed to the storyline of none other than Annihilation.

This is not to shit on Tobias' positive contributions to the games, because both eras have suffered from poor writing. Deadly Alliance/Deception combined had the best depth and storytelling of any of the titles to date, and that was without him. It also makes it even sadder that Midway then screwed the pooch with Armageddon.

The irony is that he had always designed Sonya conservatively, and she started looking increasingly sluttier after he left.

Exactly, get Saibot back.

I'd like to add one more log on the fire that says Deadly Alliance and Deception did a great job of telling the game's story and fleshing out the universe.

A bunch of people just abandoned the series at MK4, never bothered to play them, or played them very little, and then jumped back on at MK9 because of nostalgia, writing MKDA and MKD off because they didn't cater to said nostalgia, and actually expanded the MK Story in new directions (while still also incorporating old characters and stories).

Those games don't get half the friggin' credit they deserve.

I wish I could frame this and hang it on my wall.

Guys I never said that DA and DEC. Had bad storys. I really loved konquest mode and the story it told. Besides story it shared that MK vibe i always liked.

please keep in mind that the hardware in 2002 was much better so the story was told in a better way. Konquest mode was a great way to flesh out the story in DEC. Defenitly. im all for a next gen konquest rpg stand alone adventure. That would be a dream come true, but than again is NRS capable of making that game?

Mk4 was the last game John helped designing for. if i remember right he was also working on lots of other things that had to do with MK. So that can explain the lack of some stuff in mk4. But it wasnt just tobias that created mk4, it was the whole team. So just blaming tobias isnt fare, especially since all the other projects he worked on.

The MK:SF and MK:SZ fiasco has a reason. Mk:sf could have been the best (imo) mortal kombat action adventure game if he didnt leave half development. When he left the game was already doomed to fail. (There are videos on youtube that show how the game could have been)

MK:SZ was not the best game but definitly not worst eather. I loved playing that game as it shared all the elements i loved growing up with MK. The game was hard as fuk, i have to admit and the controls werent the best, still i loved that game and have it in my collection.

Im just saying that Tobias addition to the team would do good the MK franchise. Especially in terms of "story" and "design". Hes definitly not the savior of MK, im aware of his flaws. I always assumed john was a hard guy to work with and proved to be kinda bitchy as he left development a few times. But he defenitly had great ideas and a good perspective on how things should look in the games and comics. The problem i see with Tobias is that he alone wasnt able to make a good game. His ideas were good but he wasnt capable to make it work alone as he proved that with tao feng But thats why he worked with boon, boon helped to make his ideas better and work on screen.

Sometimes you just need that little extra to make it better. And i think its the combination of ed boon and john tobias that creates that extra awesomness. Afterall they created the franchise.

I just wish they reunite and make mk better in terms of design and story.

I was just thinking about this actually. Every time a new MK comes out I wish Tobias was still on the team. I know MK would be even better than it is and more close to the original Trilogy. Some of these stupid ideas in newer MKs may not have happened.

You can tell that Tobias is missing because the games themselves are missing something.

Agree its missing something.

Quoted for truth.

I stopped playing MK after MKDA because compared to previous versions it did seem to be missing something. It wasn't as 'fun' and didn't have that campy Shaw bros style I loved with MK. Now we all know why: John Tobias. He's the reason I loved MK.

Any MK after 4 to me does not deserve recognition. Just like Twisted metal 3 and 4 are tossed to the wayside by the fan base so are the '3D' MKs so many of you are fond of. They're garbage. Stop playing them cause it's not doing you any favors. You'll be better men for it.

It reminds me of the whole Demon souls/darks souls/Bloodborne vs. Darksouls 2 rip in the souls fanbase. You can tell a "B-Team" souls game from afar and I'm sure most of the MK fans who played the shit out of the older MKs know that the 3D era MK games know that game to be B-Team garbage. Admit it. You know it's true.

The 3d MK games have story and lore but no SOUL.


Nothing about them brings the pace and flow of the older MKs. We know now thats because JT was not there to keep Boon away from the controls.

MKMSZ was an awesome game that was fun to play and hilarious. And special forces was jokes. well worth the price of admission for that kind of comedy. Stop hating.

MKX however looks great and the gameplay looks solid. From a gameplay standpoint this looks like the best MK game since UMK3.

I agree too. MKDA and MKD are the high point of the MK story. That's when the lore really started to expand. In fact, when people say that MK is "known for its story," these two games contribute to that thought way more than MK1-4. So no, they don't need Tobias, but they do need to write like they wrote for those games (which I don't think they are).

They soerta did with Unchained, and correct me if I am wrong but I think that came out before Armageddon. Blaze's and Kitana's ending foreshadowed doom. But it is also obvious that Armageddon was basically had to be shat out incomplete because of reasons....


here is the thing: up until MK4 there was no real way of conveying story, only by text, and those texts did only the barest work. MK4 had videos, but it is questionable wether they ever took those seriously. Joke aside, MK4 began to actually animate the story. MKDA and MKD is where worldbuilding began earnest, that is where most of the small details come from.

I'm afraid that the thing holding the MK story back these days is literally the story mode. This chapter to chapter play-by-play does not make for a good story telling and world building medium, not like Deception's Konquest.

Nevermind

if it aint JT missing it must be NRS. i feel bad for saying this but NRS isnt proving good story writing since mk9. And im not just talking story here, design wise there certain elements missing aswell. imo important elements that made MK stand out and should not left out.

its like the original team doesnt care what direction the game is going. they are older and problably have kids now. they want more time spendig with there familys. So they problably give NRS the decisions where the game is going. neverteless monney is being made.

Interestingly enough I think quite the opposite. I think DA and D were the only games that sorta recaptured the feel of the original MK1, perhaps 2. I dislike Mythologies on an aesthetic level and because of being a boring repetitive scroller.

That does not excuse the ineptitude with the 3d games, though. I just think they had the right idea and done it in a bad way.

I agree with this. I enjoyed MK9's story mode, but I do believe it lacked the depth the previous games had. A simple way to fix this is to do a story mode chapter for each character and do away with the progressive format. Story mode would follow whichever character you selected's path allowing each of them to have proper development. MKX has great cinematic cutscenes, but cutting down on them to tell everyone's story would be better, in my opinion.

The format is what's off about the newer story modes. It was a step in the right direction going by how popular it was in MK9. However, it still needs to evolve to fully utilize it's potential.

I have often missed Tobias's designs and BTW it is unfair to blame him for how dull the MK4 costume designs were since he had to design for the limited capabilities of the 3D engine they were using. They couldn't do the elaborate, fancy designs because each character model could only be 3000 polys.

MK: Mythologies may have had crappy gameplay but the story was excellent.

That said, MKDA and MK Deception did indeed have great stories that expanded the mythos. MKDA felt fresh and mysterious, and fueled speculation about what would come next. MK Deception had that wonderful RPG Konquest mode that gave it that sense of wonder as you searched and discovered hidden secrets. Where MK Deception failed story-wise was simply that the main character Shujinko was pretty unlikable, impetuous and flat out dumb. Aside from that the story was good. Where MKDA and MKD BOTH failed was the god-awful gameplay. It was an embarrassing time where MK was trying to be like Tekken, VF or DOA but still retain MK style inputs. It was a disaster.

Then there's the mess that was Armageddon. Moronic story, Shitty fighting gameplay, douchebag protagonist in Konquest, well intentioned but mediocre character creation system, HORRIBLE create-a-fatality. The only GOOD thing was the pseudo-shaiolin monks style Konquest gameplay, but even that was lacking due to being entirely linear. It should have been more open-world or at least non-linear like MKSM. Armageddon's story was evidence that they'd written themselves into a corner and didn't even know if there would be another MK (with everything going to shit at Midway).

MK9 reset things. Yeah the story was a little stupid but that's because they had to write around that Armageddon bullshit to avoid just scrapping the previous 6 entries in the story. MK9 also set the stage to retell MK4 in a fresh and different way. Since I've been avoiding story spoilers that is as far as I can take this. But regardless, cut them some slack. They're finally telling a new story that doesn't hinge on Shao Kahn or Shang Tsung. Who knows, maybe in MK11 we can finally get a new villain. I'd kinda like to see Lucifer be resurrected and return to power in the Netherrealm with Shinnok out of the way. (When he was banished, Shinnok killed Lucifer and claimed Netherrealm for himself)

Could you imagine what MK would be like if it had Game of Thrones style Story telling?

Since MK 9? You say that like there's been 5 more before this new game... And the comic is outstanding and written extremely well. So can't say that anyway.

I'd rather have Kittelson write for netherrealm

I would have loved if the storymode mode was more related to the comic's storyline. It's decently written and quite entertaining. MKX's storymode felt more like a platform to showcase the new characters rather than progression and expanding on the mythos.

As far as imagination goes especially at this point in Tobias' career I highly doubt he's up for the challenge of taking MK back on. Kittelson has vision and direction and can do so much with very little. If someone wanted to make a petition the petition should be to get Kittelson working story lines for Netherrealm. He's much better at it than the guys they have now.