Yeah, Liu in Pao Chui has a nice easy combo for decent damage. 36%. 4, 3, cs, bicycle kick. I hate the way the damage is calculated in this game though. I can add a b+2 before the bicycle kick and it does no more damage. Same thing with Jan Fan 1, 1, 3, cs, 1, u+2, bicycle kick. If you add a second u+2 there's no added damage. What's with that? If they've still got combo breakers left and you want to do nice damage in a small number of hits I like Pao Chui 4, 3, cs, b+4. Does 28%. You could add a b+1 before b+4 but if you're doing it because they've still got breakers it's probably best to leave it out. It only adds 2% damage and slows down the combo so much it defeats the purpose of doing it while they've got breakers.

Tony: The formatting error occurs when you add an emoticon to your post. It happened to me earlier and when I edited out the emoticon, it looked normal again.

MKO Staff: Fix this bug! :)

On another note, has anyone else noticed that any d+2 uppercut cannot be broken? So, that is obviously a good choice after a spear, freeze, etc. if your opponent still has breakers and you need to do some damage. :)

General:
D has better movement options than DA when block step is concerned. CS advances VERY quickly. Some stances can almost wave dash, actually, lol. Comes out a little slow, though, and it's not really a true cd because you step, then crouch. Instead of the step being a crouch in and unto itself. Anywho...

Nightwolf

K, NW seams to be looking like a beast. Nothing seams UBER abusable and broke right now; he just seams solid.

You can bufer d,u+1 from a "downward" SSc. I guess the notation would look something like d~blk, u+1. Basically, you can SSc down at mid-close/close range, going under highs, then execute his lightening as you come out - or f,f+4. You can get a full 1/4 side step around the opp; a NATURAL side step, not the "whoosh", hitting them with the lightening.

You can buffer his arrow in the same maner as above, too. Just SSc downward then b+1 - d~blk, b+1. Just some decent mide to long range spam to throw out.

In Val Tudo you can 1,1,1,cs...then go into a throw or mid mix up - you'd be in TKD then, so a low or 2 for launch. He recovers from the unfinnished branch combo quickly, you have "advantage", then it just becomes a mix up game. You only get 2% extra damage when finnishing the branch, too. So might as well just go for a mix up that will lead to 25+ more damage - unless of course, you get spanked on a bothced mix up. If you don't feel comfortable with the mix then just space.

Um, I think 1,1,4 could vouch for the shitiest string in the game, lol. He just recovers WAAAY to slow, to the point of it being dangerous - and that's on hit.

Staple Combo:
launcher, tomahawks 1,2,3,4, f,f+4
Tomahawks 2,f+2 hits h,m. The inital 2 comes out fairly fast and the following f+2 comes in fairly quickly, too; so TH 2,f+2 seams like a good poke for crouches or CH hunting, but don't abuse it, has ass recovery, like everything else.

Val Tudo
2,2,cs, 4,4,cs,1 = 37%

Tomahawks
b+1, f,f+4, 2,3, f,f+4 = 34%
b+1, 2,3, f,f+4, 2,3, f,f+4 = 44%
TKD
2,2,1,1,cs = 27

2,3 can be cancelled with f,f+4 durring juggles and wall traps. Same with 1,4...I think.

b+1 is fairly safe. Pushed back out of jab range, anyways, and hits mid. IMO is best launcher in Tomahawks. b+1,u+1~N,u,f,f+4 is a "position switch." If you cancel a SS with f,f+4 after b+1,u+1 you will postion switch them, not sure if it PS's then DT's, though. The f,f+4 needs to hit for it to switch, so don't forget that, lol.

Buk Step - A movement techniqe for NW in Tomahawks.. Buk Step - aka...Bukkake Step, lol - is a retreating/ss option. b~blk,d~blk,b~blk,b~blk..... It retreats and goes under highs during the ss portion. It's actually more lateral than linear, so it's good for zoning. You can buffer his d,b+1 or d,u+1 coming out of it, too.

This option is available to most everyone, BUT, NW Tom's have the juice in them. You can block cancel VERY quickly and effeciently. You can also f~blk,d~blk, f~blk,d~blk etc.

Raiden:
I am kind of dissopointed with Raiden in D. I think telli will add a lot to his mix and wake up game, but because BDc was nerfed so much, through out the entire game, Raiden realy suffers. He didn't have much going for him to begin with, too.

Jujutsu isn't "as" lame anymore. Its got a launcher!!! lol I still prefer Man Chuan because of 2,b+2, b+3 and d+3. Though, b+3 isn't nearly as good as it used to be - no GOOD BDc from it. MC still has decent movement, too. Movement in staff has been nerfed a little, so MC is the best stance for movement. That, and f+2 in Ju doesn't hit wall nor' position switch off of MC 1,1,2,b+2 anymore....ghey.

Staff is meh, IMO. It no longer holds Raidens best movement options. b+2 is the old special and just as annoying when used properly. Still good range off of lows, though not as safe recovery; especially b+3. You've got a canned launcher option now - 4,4,3 - doesn't seam very abusable unless you have a purely clean option of using it. u+4 hits high? Yup....

MC 1,1,2,b+2, 1,1,(2),cs,1,2 = 35% Not a BIG combo at all, but it spaces well and allows for teli/staff mix ups. Also, his teli can be used for DT set ups. Back into a dt situation then teli and pick your poison - throw, launch, f+2, etc. Teli is decent, IMO. You have almost emident movement aftarwards, so you can lure with SS set ups - teli, bait their attack, ss, ownage. Though, I just wish it had a few invulnerable frames at start up.

Jade
This chick can spank! Good damage with little effort.

Fan Zi - 2,2,cs, 4,4,cs,1,u+4 = 37
Bojutsu - 2,3, 2,1,u+4 = 42

The above combos space and set up various wake ups well. You can go into Bo mix's or b,f+1 to close space for a throw, low, or combo. Her, b,f+1 is similar to Raidens teli, so you can bait with it, but don't abuse it. You can cs durring b,f+1, too. Both those combos lead into one another. Hit both of them, it's pretty much match over.

b,f+2 should ALWAYS be used. Whenever you get a chance, bust that shit out. It's free defense.and you can b,f+1 while it's on, too.

Prolly forgetting some notes, but bleh. I'm tired. Peace and love y'all.

Very nice. I recorded the combo starting with U+4 and it is 74%! I'll upload tomorrow.

I got 87% with Shujinko.

Uploaded a few combos to my site.

konqrr, your 87% shujinko combo is very cool but it must be very tough to pull it off consistantly. here is a much more reliable, 16-hitter @ 56% damage. it may not be konqrr's amazing 87% but you will wow the shit out of anyoine who is out of breakers

shujinko - start in mantis

spear, 1, 1, 3, back + 3, up + 4, flip kick, 1, 1, 1, sc, 4, 4, sc

and on to my queen;

sindel - start in fu jow pai

scream, 1, 1, 1, 3, sc, 4, 1, up + 1, 4, 4, and then 1 or 3

scream, 1, 1, 1, 3, sc, 4, 1, up + 1, sc, 1, 1, and then 2 or 1

The 75% combo is actually very easy to do, I'd use that one online.

WOW..lots of shit since my last post. Thanks a lot for the support guys. Right now my best chars in order are Sub,Scorp,Li Mei and Liu Kang. I can't stand the fact that Scorpion is one of my best characters, and as soon as I learn somebody else(preferably Jade,Sindel or Noob Smoke) I plan on dropping him. So here's some stuff for him.

~Sub-Zero~

You have to be a very bright player to win with this dude. Cold Shoulder is not as safe as originally expected and can be punished if you are quick enough. THROW A FUCKING LOT like SWB stated earlier. It's not even funny how much you should really be attempting this. The more you throw the safer the cold shoulder becomes because people expect it less. Whore out d+1 like I said at mid range or when they are coming at you. You will see good results I guarantee. Just dont be predictable with the cold shoulder and you'll be fine. Clone, don't be too abusive with it, for Clone leaves you at negative frames, and if they PREDICT you are going to clone u may very well end up eating a projectile, which sucks ass. Kori: b+2 is a great threat if you want to play a b+2/throw mind game, but be very careful. b+2 can be semi safe at a certain range like i stated earlier, but if you want to mix it up with throw you are going to have to go out of his safe range. If you land a b+2 do b+2,cs,1,2,4,cs,2,cs for 42% damage. Sub is all about getting in CRAZY DAMAGE with his set ups. Fuck dragon unless for my 1~bdc and 1,1~bdc clone set ups and randomy 4,b+2. It pisses me off what Midway did to that stance to be honest. Shoto and Kori is all you really be using.

~Scorpion~

Yucky..I hate him in this game, but im still pretty good with him. We all know about the Mogai Ryu: f+1/throw and f+1/d+1 mix up so im not going to reiterate what has already been said, but heres some other tight stuff. First off, d+1 is not only just good for mixing up with f+1. That baby spaces like a mo fo. A GREAT defensive tool. In fact, on par with Shotokan: d+1 in my opinion. When they are rushing you down d+1 will beat out most of the moves in the game, with solid damage to boot. I don't think it needs to be said, but hell fire = guaranteed mix up between f+1/throw or f+1/d+2 if you are at mid or close range. If you get you into a mix up/block game with your opponent, hell fire fucks them over. Scorp's really basic so I don't feel like I need to post much more.

~ Li Mei~

Li Mei is so ill in this game! She probably gets my vote for most improved character. She's so simple and fun and most importantly..SAFE!. Mi Zong: b+4 is ILLLLL. THE SAFEST MOVE IN MORTAL KOMBAT DECEPTION. You can literally cancel out the animation by tapping back. WHAT THE FUCK? Too bad it hits high. I like mixing up her u+4 with her throw and also with b+3. Thanks to the truth I follow up to u+4 with 1,2,2,cs for 31%. However, I think I passed by a juggle her that does in the 40s so i'll check that out soon. Her weapon stance( still dont have the names down yet) is pretty decent. d+1 spaces out well and 2 is a solid mid hitting attack with good range. Overal I like Li Mei a lot and shes def a winnable char this time around.

~Liu Kang~

So far to be considered the best in the game, my Liu Kang is nothing but ripped off strats from MKL. However, with those ripped off starts im already pretty decent with him. 1,1,3 can be BDC out of and is pretty safe on block whether you do so or not, and can be mixed up with his throw and d+3. 2,b+1,1,1,3,cs,4,1,1,b+1 does 44% and is absolutely crazy. Simple character, simple tactics, devasting victories. He may not be as broke as say, MKDA Scorpion, but I think if tier lists were made right now he'd be the best character.

Awsome work guys, you really made a lot of progress in such a short time, I can't wait to try some of this stuff as soon as MKD hits the EU.
Big up to my man Versatile for putting it down Sub-Zero style!

I have some more nightwolf stuff
tkd.
1, 1, cs 1, 2, 3, 4.
You have to step forward for the four to hit.
1, 1, cs, 1, 2, 3, f f 4.

weapon stance 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 4.

Noob- Smoke

Starting with Smoke:
Grabbing the character reduces the damage by 5% and in some cases up to 12% but guarantees the Smokey cut....
1) Nose breaker throw
2) Smokey cut (F,F, 3)
3) Ninja Stars (D, B, 2)
4) Then you can follow it up with 1,2,4, (30%) w/o grabbing first (36%)
or 1,2, F+2 (31%) w/o grabbing first (approximately 42%)
You have to time the follow up combo string just right for it to hit the opponent after Noob throws the ninja stars otherwise the string won't even come out. It's a tough combo at first but its fun to do and hear your opponent online start whining.

Take care

Li Mei in Mi Zong.

b+4... d,b+4 twice...f,f+2 (10 hits 54%)

For an easy 40% only do d,b+4 once.

Good stuff...we gotta keep this bumped.

I have been working with Jade lately in my spare time and have found some nasty combos. Im sure some of you have found them though.
2,2,1,CS,4,CS,back+2,back+2,back forward 4 10 hits= 40something damage

2,2,1,CS,4,CS,back+2,back+2,2,1,3 11 hits= 42 i think...

2,2,1,CS,4,CS,back+2, back+2, 2, 1, up and 3 12 hits 40%

3,2,2,1,CS,4,CS 7 hits 40%

Wow this topic is combo crazy. How about some actual strategies guys? Things to SET THOSE JUGGLES UP.

What's some good Sindel strats? Me and my boy are thinking about picking her up, and ill be online for play around next week so yall get ready. BOOYA!

Heh, we should have seperate character sections, like that really, really, REALLY (Like, before we even had the multi-forums in mk5.org) old MKDA gameplay thread in the MKDA forum, which was several pages long, where it had several amounts of information per character with strats and combos.

Who knows why we have not has sub-forums for seperate characters like all the other fighting game sites....

Hey guys! Just signed up, been playing on Live for a few days now, and am compiling strats. I've been reading and I wanted to contribute a little something for my first post.

I've taken it as a personal mission to get good with SubZero. He is a wierd character; he isn't "good", tier-wise, but I think his play style can reward players who are willing to be patient and unconventional. He's a "skill" character --I've found that you have to understand the game fundamentals and matchups better than you do when you are using a character like scorpion or Liu Kang. It's much more difficult IMO to force mistakes with Sub Zero than other character's, and mistakes are his bread and butter, since he doesn't have enough speed to rushdown.

With that said, I'm glad others are dedicated to him as well.

One thing I didn't see mentioned (and maybe everyone just does it) is using iceballs to set up the ice clone. At about three to four character's distance, shoot an iceball. If your opponent blocks, great. Your opponent will retaliate, but you have "advantage" and can perform an ice clone right after the ball, catching them in the punishment attempt. So far, it's worked surprisingly well for me online.

I usually use d+4 for range poking, but I suspect that d+1 is better.

with Kori, I find myself using d+1 a lot to establish range.

Quick match up note, then a quick Q.

Dairou. --He's a pimp --He just "leans back" and relaxes, and things start to happen. I hate this guy. Haven't fought a real good Dairou yet, but have learned that Iceball on anticipation will make his leanback pretty useless ( freezing him when he pops back up. I also found that d+4 will catch him on the toe and shut out the lean back from about a character's distance. Other than that, I tend to jump a little bit more, and have had some success. Would love to hear more from the experts.

I have a question: How do you fight Liu Kang with Sub? His flying attacks seem to trade or beat the shoulder, and he's so fast...I can't keep a good (or even mediocre) Liu Kang off me.

Great Thread!

-Q.

WTF!? I've read on various "other" forums that a lot of peeps have been bitching about Raiden...I guarn-damn-tee he is not THAT top tier, if even top tier. His staff is almost useless, i think he has like...one mid? Something like that. Teli is fast, but you can poke him out of it for free damage. Wow, he's got his scruby branch. That's real hardcore there, lol.

General Notes:
You can cs durring any special or move through one stance. So, say you're NW you can f,f+4+cs and you'll cs durring the move; great for juggles, "safe" switching and what not.

I appreciate that the old school corner trap system is back. You can cancel shit like mad now, lots of creativity - thank you!! Theoretically, infinates could be applied through corner trap cancels; mechanically, it could work. Execution wise, I'm not so sure. Though, I'm sure there is somthing hella noob out there to break that barrier.

Nightwolf's 2,3 in hawks is juggle friendly beyond belief. I love it. 2 in TKD has quick recovery so you get an almost imediate d+4 or 2 mix. I believe d+4 goes under highs, too. Though, I'd rather get beat by d+4 than 2...nasty, nasty shit comes from 2.

2,f+2 in hawks is good for "oki" and catching sleeping bitches.

Oh, and for Jade, don't know if I mentioned this in my other post, but d+4 is BDc compliant...yeah, noob, but whatever.

Fun jade corner trap: Bo 2,3, 2,1,3, 2, d+1 50%, looks nice, ends with a low too, lol. Good stuff.

Peace and love ya'll.

You know, I just can't bring myself to play this game anymore... I did muster up the strength however to finally finish this complete move list for Li Mei. This was supposed to be a part of a FAQ that GameFAQs seemingly refuses to put up for one reason or another so meh.

Name - Input - Damage - Edge Breaker - Pop-Up

(Edge Breaker means that a move can break the edge of a ring or knock someone into a death trap)

Key:
1 = Attack 1
2 = Attack 2
3 = Attack 3
4 = Attack 4
CS = Change Stance
U = Up
D = Down
B = Back
F = Forward

Lui He Ba Fa:
Sideward Palm - 1 - 5 - No - No
Hammer Palm - B+1 - 13 - No - Yes
Needle Fingers - D+1 - 4 - No- No
Heel Palm Strike - U+1 - 16 - Yes - No
Open Fist Strike - 2 - 6 - No - No
Uppercut - D+2 - 13 - Yes - No
Back Kick - 3 - 12 - No- No
Sweeping Kick - B+3 - 7 - No - No
Back Sweep - D+3 - 6 - No - No
Swinging Elbow - 4 - 7 - Yes - No
Lifting Knee - B+4 - 16 - Yes - No
Walking Heels - D+4 - 4 - No - No
Lost Rose - 2, 4 - 10 - Yes - No
Pink Dragon - 3, 3 - 16 - Yes - No
Extreme Fists - 1,1,1 - 11 - Yes - No
Unleashed - 2, B+1 - 10 - No - Yes
Explosive Strength - 1, 1, B+4 - 18 - Yes - No
Rejuvenation - 1, 1, 2, 4 - 15 - Yes - No
Coiled Dragon - 1, 1, 3, 3, - 16 - Yes - No
Golden Path - 1, 1, 2, B+1 - 15 - No - Yes
Twister Spin - 2, 4, CS - 14 - No - Yes
Typhoon Hands - 1, 1, 2, 4, CS - 17 - No - Yes

Mi Zong:
Hook Fist - 1 - 5 - No - No
Slap Down - F+1 - 6- No - Yes
Low Strike - D+1 - 4 - No - No
Off Balance Punch - B+1 - 8 - Yes - No
Straight Punch - 2 - 7 - No - No
Pelvis Strike - B+2 - 10 - Yes - No
Uppercut - D+2 - 13 - Yes - No
Sweeping Trip - B+3 - 7 - No - No
Crab Kick - D+3 - 4 - No - No
High Kick - 3 - 9 - No - No
Side Kick - 4 - 9 - Yes - No
Step Kick - D+4 - 4 - No - No
Lift Kick - B+4 - 6 - Yes - Yes
Smashing Kick - U+4 - 10 - Yes - Yes
Good Old 1-2 - 1, 1 - 9 - No - No
Triplets - 1, 1, 1 - 13 - Yes - No
Zong Rage - 1, 1, 4 - 15 - Yes - No
Angry Ape - 1, 1, F+1 - 13 - No - Yes
Lost Track - 2, 2, U+4 - 18 - Yes - Yes
Iron Broom - 2, 2, B+4 - 16 - Yes - Yes
Crossing Paths - 1, 2, 2, CS -21 - Yes - No

Kunlun Dao:
Lethal Slash - 1- 8 - Yes - No
Leaf Cutter - U+1 - 12 - No - Yes
Leg Slicer - D+1 - 5 - No - No
Swift Wind - 2 - 10 - Yes - No
Stomach Poke - F+2 - 8 - Yes - No
Deadly Blade - D+2 - 16 - Yes - No
Melee Slice - 3 - 12 - No - No
1000 Swings of Death - B+3 - 15 - No - No
Low Slice - D+3 - 4- Yes - No
Front Kick - 4 - 11 - Yes - No
Leg Trap - B+4 - 8 - No - No
Toe Poker - D+4 - 4 - Yes - No
Basic Slashes - 1, 1 - 15 - No - No
Wind Kontrol - 1, 1, 2 - 20 - Yes - No
Kunlun’s Best - 1, 1, 3 - 20 - No - No
Unmatched - 1, 1, 4 - 19 - Yes - No
Blood Thirsty Blade - 2, B+3 - 23 - Yes - No

Special Moves:
Back Stomp - Throw Button - 16 - No - No
Nova Blast - D, B+1 - 9 - No - No
Carnival Spin - F- D+3 - 11 - Yes - Yes
Flying Flurry - F, F+2 - 14 - Yes - No
Flipping Heel Kick - D, B+4 - 14 - No - No

Seriously though, I can't bring myself to play this game anymore... The fighting game anyway, I'm having fun with Puzzle Kombat though. I'm not sure if this movelist helps anybody but it's the only thing I could come up with posting haha.

Sure thing, the set up I love to use for Noob-Smoke is to get in close with Smoke and perform the smoke cloud even if you know that it won't engulf the opponent and then perform the Tele-punch that brings Noob in and attacks the opponent from behind, again even if the opponent blocks it. The Tele-punches purpose is simply to shove the oppent into the smoke cloud and then you quickly swap in Smoke if its successful, the opponent will be defensless. Start the combo or whatever you want to do because it a free world.

PS
Do not perform the smoke cloud if you are too far away from the opponent because you will not be able to push them into it with the Tele-punch.

Take care

Wow, you make it seem like this game is a dying horse in the back of the barn that you don't quite have the nerve to shoot to put it out of it's misery LOL. Honestly I had such low expectations for the game it wasn't even funny. But after screwing around with it for a a while I found some pretty cool shit and some nice set ups. Playing people online really opened up the game for me as I got to see how other players think and try my strat vs theirs. Remember, you should not try play this game like Tekken or VF4 because it simply will not translate.

Your mind set should be more of a mix between 2D and 3D fighters. I'm more of a 2D player and I applied my know how of 2D to this game and it works rather well. This game is all about setting the opponent up with traps and not focusing on Huge combos for a victory. I find more success in ticking away at an opponent with pokes and mix ups, and then seting up the traps for a quick combo. In this game only go for the big combo if the oppenent has exhausted the breakers.

PS. The game is not that bad.

Take care

LOL!! Yah, I had uber low expectations, too. I still think it's got a LOOONG way to go befor it's a legit fighter. Though, MK is MK again. Gotta' love that.

Truth, I hear ya, lol. I think it's better than DA, but that's not saying much. You've got a little more movement options, a little better juggle system, a little better throw "system", but the main issues are still there, sadly. SIgh...

Well, in two weeks I'm getting T5 at TWO!!! local arcades; and I'm getting them ON TIME. 0_0...^_^. I can't believe that shit is actually making it to where I live, lol. Good times.

Anywho, don't mean to go off topic, heh. If you peeps want character specific forums, just click my sig.....kthnxbi

Current Tier List without infinites:

top:

Hotaru
Dairou
noob
Shujinko

top mid:

Raiden
Liu Kang
Nightwolf
Baraka
Ashra
Darrius


with infinites put

Ermac
Mileena

at the top.

NOTE: Darrius would be much higher is his game wasn't so 50/50, hes like the Makoto of MKD, hit or miss.

Jester~i totally disagree w/ ur list.. its so wrong!



RAIDEN PLAYERS i have a question.. his staff hit that hits low once then hits again~my ? is~is the 2nd hit a low or a high attack? i have yet to unlock him, been playing online alot..its annoying some times.. i just roll and step back to prevent myself from being hit from it again.. i just need to know both hits. so is it low low, low mid or low high? and if it is a mid how should i block it? thanx in advance!

.........

I hate you.