TheDogg Wrote: But looks like we'll have the original MK3 instead of UMK3.

That's actually cool with me. I mean UMK3 (and later MK Trilogy) may have more characters and whatnot, but I think the original MK 3 is still the most enjoyable to play, especially the PlayStation version. I just can't seem to get good at UMK3/MK Trilogy for some reason. The game play of UMK3/MKT pretty much forces you to play a certain way and if you don't, you'll just get yourself raped. UMK 3 is like a hit and miss with me. Sometimes I can pick it up and do a decent enough job at it; sometimes I struggle to get through the second or third fight. MK 3's different though, as I can get straight up to Kahn without using a continue.

As for MK 4, I wouldn't be too interested in an arcade port of it since MK Gold for the Dreamcast is a perfect arcade translation and then some. With the exception of a few minor glitches (assuming you're playing version 2.0 of MK Gold, the red disc version), it's hands down the only way to play MK 4. Since it was never released in the arcades, I'm guessing the standard version of MK 4 will be the one Midway uses, which is why I'm not too excited about it.

Still UMK 3 and MK 4 would mark a great start of Midway Arcade Treasures 3, although squeezing in MK Trilogy and MK Gold in their places would be even better (hint, hint).

Okay, let's clear the air here.

Killer Instinct and Killer Instinct 2 used Midway hardware, that's true. HOWEVER, it was modified by Nintendo and the KI games used Nintendo's "Ultra64" arcade chip. Yes, the hardware was still Midway's, and they manufactured and sold the arcade machines, but there was quite a bit of Nintendo influence in the hardware too.

If you don't believe me and want proof, check out these screen shots from the original arcade version of KI:

Nintendo/Rare copyright screen

Midway copyright screen

Ultra64 arcade chip logo

On a side note, we don't know who retained the rights to the KI franchise, whether it was Nintendo or Rare, so any speculation about Rare making KI3 for the XBox is just stupid. We don't know if Rare retained the rights to it or if Nintendo did. There's been nothing mentioned about a KI3 even being a remote possibility from either party, so it's doubtful we'll see one.

White_Pointer

White_Pointer Wrote: Okay, let's clear the air here. Killer Instinct and Killer Instinct 2 used Midway hardware, that's true. HOWEVER, it was modified by Nintendo and the KI games used Nintendo's "Ultra64" arcade chip. Yes, the hardware was still Midway's, and they manufactured and sold the arcade machines, but there was quite a bit of Nintendo influence in the hardware too. If you don't believe me and want proof, check out these screen shots from the original arcade version of KI: Nintendo/Rare copyright screen Midway copyright screen Ultra64 arcade chip logo On a side note, we don't know who retained the rights to the KI franchise, whether it was Nintendo or Rare, so any speculation about Rare making KI3 for the XBox is just stupid. We don't know if Rare retained the rights to it or if Nintendo did. There's been nothing mentioned about a KI3 even being a remote possibility from either party, so it's doubtful we'll see one. White_Pointer

Very true, but that seems to intitle Midway to port the arcade version since it was still them that made the machines and used some of their hardware. Atleast I think it should.

I'm pretty sure Rare has the rights to the KI series since Nintendo was only the licensor. The only reason they had anything to do with it is cause they supported Rare to be Nintendo exclusive. KI 1 and 2 for the consoles may be exclusive to Nintendo but not the arcade versions and neither should future titles.

LICENSOR: Nintendo
DEVELOPER: Rareware
DISTRIBUTOR: Midway

owner of the copy rights and legal owner of the KI franchise, RARE, legal owner of RARE MS, so owner of KI MS.

nintendo does not own KI, fanboys should get over this, they do not own KI, not now, no ever, rare owns all things rare.

nintendo owned stock in rare, and rare was a 2nd party to nintentdo, then nintendo flushed away all of the gamers over 14, and MS started to buy stock in rare, and nintendo, not seeing games by rare selling because no one owned there gamecube at the time, sold there stock, and MS bought it out.

They could make one with mk trilogy without bugs, and khameleon and chameleon

GusLan Wrote: They could make one with mk trilogy without bugs, and khameleon and chameleon

They could but won't. This is all arecade ports and MKT was never in the arcade. The only one they will probably add or is already added is UMK3 and then they might as well throw in MK4.

But MKT and MK4Gold will not since they never were arcade ports to begin with.

actually it's a known fact rare kept the ki franchise.

straight from rareware.com's (rare's official site) scribes board:

Dear Scribes,
First let me say that I appreciate your move to the Xbox game console. After seeing what you could pull off on the Nintendo 64 I can't wait to see what you can do with a game designed from the ground up for the Xbox.
However now that you have switched platforms and the people that are claiming betrayal are all up in arms over this I find it so hard to get a straight answer when it comes to anything Rare based any more. Primarily when it comes to the games Xbox owners can now potentially expect to be released for the platform. If I was to go on a forum and ask "Could Rare make Killer Instinct for the Xbox?" I would be slammed with 10 or so responses along the lines of "Nintendo owns KI so haha to you"...
What I'm asking is outside of the media PR and hype what all licenses do you guys retain from your breakup with Nintendo. Obviously StarFox and Donkey Kong are not going to follow you guys... but what about Killer Instinct, Blast Corps, Battletoads, RC Pro-Am, Jet Force Gemini, yadda yadda? And outside of the titles you bring with you to the Xbox can we expect to see titles potentially appear that may not have been considered for the Gamecube due to N64 versions? I'm talking KI3, Blast Corps, and Jet Force Gemini mainly here (I'm sure I'm not the only one who wishes to see sequels to these titles).
Anyways you can be sure that whatever Rare magic is to grace the Xbox in the near future will be greatly appreciated by me. A fan of a game company is not determined by the piece of plastic and wires that plays said company's titles.
DarkCloud

Okay, let's see. It can get a bit confusing, but basically, as you say, the DK and Star Fox properties have always been Nintendo's and will remain that way, along with any franchise games that we produced. Pretty much everything else reverts to Rare, including KI, Banjo, Conker, PD, Blast Corps and JFG (but not GoldenEye, obviously, as the Bond licence is neither Rare's nor Nintendo's). Any of these characters and franchises could return in the future alongside original titles such as Kameo, though as to which of them actually will, your guess is as good as mine. And I'm not just saying that - your guess really is as good as mine.

Great news man. So atleast I can rest now and be glad Rare atleast has rights to the KI series which could mean many possiblitie's in the future.

As long as MK 1 and 2 are both arcade perect or extremely close.. that's all I care about.

I'm not pleased that easily. MK1,MK2,MK3 and Primal Rage all better be perfect arcade ports with the consoles we have today which can handle them easily.

Also with only 10 games announced their is room for UMK3 and MK4 not too mention some other great games since the first MAT had 24 games.

Oh and every game better be perfect arcade ports.
Atleast when it comes to graphics,sound and AI since that stuff is easy to port but now the controls are different since it's being converted from Joy Stick to Controller. But it still should be near perfect since Midway has made enought console fighters to know what they are doing.

Can't wait till we hear more info on the other games. I'm so hoping for more fighters since this would be the best compilation of gory fighters.

The controll layout will probably be like this on PS2:

Square=High Punch
X=Low Punch
Circle=Low Kick
Triangle=High Kick
R1=Run
L1=Block

It's pretty much the same on Xbox too.
X=High Punch
A=Low Punch
B=Low Kick
Y=High Kick
R=Run
L=block
If you can use a arcade stick on MAT II Im going to use that.

Yea, they will be like all the other MK games.

I'm getting it for xbox but will use my ps2 controller with a coverter.

Btw, nice pic of Akuma. He's my fav SF character. Oh the memories.

Well, the reason the first Arcade Treasures had so many games, was because they were all old games that required very little memory.

Both MK2 and MK3 both require a signioficant amount of memory, especially if we're talking about arcade quality (the home versions of course would be a whole other story).

Also, you need to remember that this is not a full-on MK collection, this is merely a pick-and-choose compilation of their favorite arcade games. So just be happy that they're re-releasing the first two or three MK's.

And this is just my humble opinion.. but if you want to play UMK3 at home, you should just pickup a Sega Saturn and play it on there, as that conversion was extremelly close to the arcade (minus its short load times).

And like somebody already said on here, if you want to play MK4 at home.. you may as well pickup a Sega Dreamcast cause MK Gold was as good if not better than the arcade version of MK4 (or so I hear).

I've never been a big fan of MK4 though, which is why I never bought a Dreamcast. I do have a Saturn though, and play UMK3 every now and then. I play it on the big screen and it rules!

And on a somewhat-related note, the Saturn version of Street Fighter: The Movie, was a very underrated fighting game. I still think it's amazing.

SmokeMaster Wrote: Yea, they will be like all the other MK games. I'm getting it for xbox but will use my ps2 controller with a coverter. Btw, nice pic of Akuma. He's my fav SF character. Oh the memories.

It's a pick and choose somewhat. Cause if you noticed, whatever game they picked they include either all of them or continue them on till next time.

Every game from the first one that had a part 2 is now on this one.

Also with it being pick and choose, then it won't surprise me to see UMK3 and not MK3. Cause the biggest reason UMK3 was released as an upgrade was to boost the sales of MK3 since it wasn't doing so hot like MK1 and 2 did.

Many people were mad that Scorpion was not in it and that alot of the good/new characters from MK 2 never returned which in UMK3 they do.

So if we don't see UMK3 on this one we will see it on the next one along with probably MK4.

Cause this is why Rampage WT, Spy Hunter 2, Total Carnage and Gaunlet 2 are all on this one. They all had their first ones on the first MAT.

So it's not a simple pick and choose game. It's more of a simple pick and choose series. The big thing is whether they release them all on one disk or not.
Like Joust 1 and 2 were on MAT but then others they saved the sequel for MAT2.

ErmacWins Wrote: Well, the reason the first Arcade Treasures had so many games, was because they were all old games that required very little memory. Both MK2 and MK3 both require a signioficant amount of memory, especially if we're talking about arcade quality (the home versions of course would be a whole other story). Also, you need to remember that this is not a full-on MK collection, this is merely a pick-and-choose compilation of their favorite arcade games. So just be happy that they're re-releasing the first two or three MK's. And this is just my humble opinion.. but if you want to play UMK3 at home, you should just pickup a Sega Saturn and play it on there, as that conversion was extremelly close to the arcade (minus its short load times). And like somebody already said on here, if you want to play MK4 at home.. you may as well pickup a Sega Dreamcast cause MK Gold was as good if not better than the arcade version of MK4 (or so I hear). I've never been a big fan of MK4 though, which is why I never bought a Dreamcast. I do have a Saturn though, and play UMK3 every now and then. I play it on the big screen and it rules! And on a somewhat-related note, the Saturn version of Street Fighter: The Movie, was a very underrated fighting game. I still think it's amazing. SmokeMaster Wrote: Yea, they will be like all the other MK games. I'm getting it for xbox but will use my ps2 controller with a coverter. Btw, nice pic of Akuma. He's my fav SF character. Oh the memories.

for all we know, mk3 COULD be umk3 for mat2. it wouldn't take much work for it. just add the mk3 pictures to umk3. problem solved.

It's easy to think that Midway has some ownership over KI because their name is on the cabinet, but what you need to realize is that when it came to the software -- the actual game -- Midway was not involved at all in making it. Their name is on it because they manufactured and distributed the cabinets and hardware, and they did that because they were paid to. (remember they were a very good arcade cabinet manufacturer / distributor back then). If Midway wanted to, they could pay royalties for a liscence to RARE to port and distribute the game, but with RARE being owned by Microsoft, that likely won't happen unless MAT2 is X-Box exclusive. RARE also owns full rights to KI and KI2, since Nintendo ditched them, they gave up their rights to those games. RARE produced the game (basically, they paid for it, Nintendo gave them a platform to use it on). Finally, don't expect a KI3 soon, if ever, since RARE has sadly degraded to a less-than-stellar company that doesn't put out more than a few games a year, and they're games that perform badly in sales.

For Primal Rage, if Midway's name is on it, they were likely a distributor and nothing else. Primal Rage didn't run on Midway hardware (Atari GT hardware specifically), so distrubitorship (possibly porting to console versions) is the most likely explanation.

For Acclaim, they distributed specific ports of MK games, which is probably what their contract with Midway specified (if the contract specified all ports for all systems, the games very likely could not appear in MAT2 unless Acclaim gets distrubution rights to the whole collection). Since we can assume that Acclaim had no liscence for the arcade versions, it's fine for Midway to port them to newer consoles, since Acclaim isn't signed to distribute those versions.

For why MK4 isn't in it, chances are the arcade versions are being emulated, and there is no actual emulator in existance for the Zeus hardware. But if not, also know that unless the consoles have the power of the Zeus hardware to generate that many polygons, you're not gonna exactly get the arcade look and sound to go with it.

So, all discussion aside, go buy me this game.

Yea, well I did say imo I think that entitles Midway to port them since it was their hardware that made KI 1 and 2 look good. Without Midway they would have probably not been so nice looking or as smooth. So i think they should be able to port them. I no they won't but to me they deserve the right to.

As for Primal Rage it's cause the new Atari(infogrames) got the rights to all the old Atari games when they got the lisence and the new Atari wants to be heard so they are taking every step to put older and newer Atari games out there. So I heard atleast.

As for Acclaim, yes...that is all correct. They had nothing to do with the arcade MKs.

I just do hope they have UMK3 since it was just a added on rom to MK3. I would actually like to see both MK3 and UMK3. Cause sometimes I just don't feel like fighting the ninja's with someone like Kabal but then when I want to play as them.........well I'll need UMK3.

But I'm not in worry of them not putting UMK3 in since MAT2 is games that are the best of the best and well UMK3 was only made to boost up sells and it did. So UMK3 became the real MK3 and the better selling one.

P.S. I'll buy the game for you,lol and this is SmokeMaster by the way. Just decided to change my name to something not based on one character.

Just got some news.

The reason for Midway having Primal Rage on MAT2 and other Atari games on the first MAT is cause Midway bought a division of Atari Games in 1996.

So we can expect to see alot of good old Atari games since they are somewhat Midways now.

Well, that explains Primal Rage if Midway owns part of them. I didn't know Infogrames was Atari, but that would explain Atari having a hand in Unreal Tournament 2003.

If you wanna be fair, you could say that while RARE owns the KI game, Midway owns the hardware, which would make it impossible for either to really put out an arcade port without the other's assistance. This does say that Midway should have some say in a KI port, since if we're talking arcade games and emulation with this collection, then both Midway and RARE would have a problem individually trying to port it. Midway has no rights to KI, so they can't port a game that they have no creative possession of. On the other hand, RARE can't do it with an attempt to emulate the hardware KI was on. Main reason would be that they would be making a profit off a game that uses emulated hardware that wasn't theirs. Midway could cry foul on that if they suspect their hardware is being copied digitally for someone else's profit. So basically, both RARE and Midway would likely need each other in order to port KI and KI2 arcade like that. But like it's been said, since RARE is owned by Microsoft now, don't expect it to actually happen unless you're contempt with the port only being on X-Box.

Yea, Infogrames bought the name of Atari and they also got all the rights to the games.

I would be happy if say xbox got KI 1 and 2 as exclusives and then Ps2 gets 2 exclusives or something to even it out. Cause I have a ps2 and xbox and am waiting to see which version turns out the most arcade like. If MS would do that, I would buy the xbox version right away and just plung in my converter.....cause the ps2 controller rocks for fighting games.

SmokeMaster Wrote: Btw, nice pic of Akuma. He's my fav SF character. Oh the memories.

Thanks,One question how can you play Arch Rivals?I read on Killer List of Video games you need a 48 way stick to play it.It might be a error since most arcade basketball games require a 8-way.

Hi,
My first post here and Im happy to be around fellow MK players again.............

Anywho, I was thinking about this whole thing about midway releasing these BEAUTIFUL compilation. Then I started thinking, I dont remember seeing an MK3 arcade, only UMK3 so I have strong feelings it will be UMK3. The only bad thing is....no brutalities......there wasnt any on the Arcade version only home.

if Im wrong someone let me know.

yes there was an arcade version of mk3. reason you only saw umk3 was because it replaced mk3.

MENTHOL Wrote: yes there was an arcade version of mk3. reason you only saw umk3 was because it replaced mk3.

Yep. Menthol is right.