They listened to the fans.

To be honest: It isn't. Its still very profitable. Its just Mortal Kombat is the only thing that Midway can make and make a profit on it.

But I'll make the argument that quite a few of the new characters look dull and uninteresting.

More accurate.

The equation is simple:

all mk games with Tobias (1-4) kicked ass
all mk games after the split were lame


elementary, my dear Watson

I'll try this

1. Parent company (Midway) politics - from pumping out sub-par MK games, to expanding Midways portfolio of games for the sake of being a more robust gaming publisher. Crap-shoot investments, and bad time management.

Can't blame them for trying to do the right thing though, they just failed at it.

2. John Tobias - Letting the conceptual personality for the game "chuck the deuces", and ride off into the sunset is one of the stupidest things you could do. I mean, you don't let the "fantasy element" of a fantasy game franchise walk out of the door. Boon = brains Tobias = heart.

3. Because they stopped appealing to the masses the way the concept of Mortal Kombat suggests that Mortal Kombat should appeal.

4. Because they went 3D and didn't do anything inventive with the platform.

5. Yep, because they listened to the wrong fans. How can you tell who the right ones are, unless you listening in the first place though? I think they may have actually been listening to the right fans though, they just weren't privileged to engage us the way they wanted to. Starts looking like a capability issue after a while to us, the recipients.

6. They just don't get it - It's possible they just can't tell or don't know how to engage with fans now as opposed to the ways they did in 1990's. It's also possible that it's just too damn hard to tell what the majority of a massive amount of people want them to make.

In addition, it's possible that they could just....not give a flying fuck because artist make what they want to make, and hope people like the end product.

7. Age - The core fan base has grown up. Yep, we could be jaded a bit, and simply turned off by the type of game they have been continuously delivering. The core fan base (which is now around 17 years older than we were), the base that made them successful could simply not want what they are selling because MK refuses to grow up with us.

This has to do with more Midway politics but essentially, by keeping their games geared towards a younger crowd, their sales could be staying high (which is good for Midway, so they force that issue on the MK team). And so there could be a fear that if they tried a more age appropriate game, they'd suffer on the sales side of things.

The thing is though, I don't see how a fear like that could exists so much in gaming's current state. Especially considering that most "gamers" now, are into the M rated age group (17-30yrs old with stragglers on either side of that age range. Ages 10-45).

--

There's 7 of the ones I either agree with, or feel strongest about.

Cuz they always do something wrong.

Deception - bad, broken gameplay.

Armageddon - sloppy gameplay, plus bland ambience.

MK VS DC - They add DC characters. Not enough content.

If the next game has the gameplay of MK VS DC, the dark delicious ambience of Deception, and lots of classic characters plus new characters like the ones from Deadly Alliance, MK will be revived.

Yes, the latest game sold well, but the series has gradually been losing its hardcore fans.

The main problem is that with each new game, they try to focus too much on one aspect while neglecting other significant aspects:

They didn't have enough time to fix MKD's gameplay because of those mini-games, they wanted all the characters for MKA so we got quantity over quality, and they added the DC Universe for "MK8" which lead to bland characters, arenas, and that infamous "T" rating.

There is too much emphasis on the bullet points on the back of the box. Take Deception for instance:
* New Characters
* Returning Old Characters
* Chess Kombat
* Improved Fighting Engine
* Explore the MK Universe in Konquest Mode
* Unlock stupid amounts of crap in the Krypt
* Puzzle Kombat.

And the trouble is while that looks great on the back of the box that's the only place it looked great. The returning and new characters literally replaced the ones missing from Deadly Alliance. And the rest was not that great.

Most people wanted a much improved fighting engine from Deadly Alliance and that's it.

Too many people have been burned by the let downs of MK4-Armageddon. The series is still profitable, but it only sells to the hardkore and they are now super pissed at The Powers That Be, because of the DC Universe crossover. Ignoring the fact that the game played better than anything the MK team had brought out, it was automatically worse than anything before it because it had less gore and Superman doesn't kill people. Should have done a 100% DC Universe game.

But that's it. If Midway survives and "MK9" is released using the MKVSDCU engine then its on the way up.

the whole Round 1, round 2 thing is so boring....... time for that to go..... its not a boxing match, its a fight to the death...... So it should be one round until the other guy is finished.......


Also the voice talent , especially the commentator is so repetive... Get a new voice over guy. So much talent out there, time they revamp all the audio from scratch.

The fights should take place in an open world that you wonder from area to area.....


graphics should look photo real.....

Thats exactly it.

Wrong fans = Wrong development

money.
This is the only problem.
ALL the recent masterpieces have million and million of buck of budget.
EA,Eidos,Capcom,Sony,MS,etc....it all rely on financial possibilities of the softwre house financing and producing the game.
More money means:
1)longer time to develop
2)Better work(it's not a secret that a programmer works better if paid 2 million instead of 1)
3)more ad and commercial
4)more kontent
5)more people to work on the game
6)less troubles in development
7)finished product



that's exactly what MK needs.
Until Ed Boon is tied to Midway,which is dying,no chance for Mk to rise up.
If WB brought MK license we have some chance to resurrect the saga.
Think about it,we just need 2 GREAT games(Shaolin Monks 2 and MK9) and a good movie financied by WB.The only problem would be a MK vs DCu2 and some crappy comic books...but it's a good exchange value.
After Mk vs DCu2 we'll have mk10 and the rest of the saga if it will ocntinue to spawn a million $ per game.
after if Mk armageddon managed to sold 1.200.000 copies i don't see why should fail another mk game...

MK will never be as popular as it was in the 90's. 2d fighters where the most popular games in the 90's and now first person shooters are the most popular. First person shooters generally have an easy pick up and play approach, while fighters tend to take time to get used to.

Secondly MK is tecnically not failing, becaue MK vs DC sold more copies than MKA. If MK truly wants to get back on top then they will have to find something to apeal to a wide audience. Perhaps they should do what nintendo did and replace their audience from hardcore fans to your mom.

Seriously, though there is virtually no way MK can do as well as a Halo or GTA , because even highly praised fighters such as SF4, SC4, and VF5 have never came close to the success of shooters.

It was Tobias's choice to leave. It wasnt Midway's fault.

I know, that's why I said "let him".

Pad the pocket and give him more control or something...y'kneh. *shrug* lol

Midway is jipping their flagship franchise by making developers rush it out. THAT'S what is wrecking MK.

I'd say they are doing decent sales wise.

But honestly, they could do so much better if they stopped rushing games and release a fresh title.

So basically, in your opinion, they should make a completely new Mortal Kombat game that's not really Mortal Kombat at all. Here's why I'm saying this:

You're stating that there should be only one long round because in your case you feel that this is a "boxing game" only becuase they have up to five rounds depending on how much you're playing up to. Why should they get rid of that? Every other fighting game is like that. Street Fighter, Soul Calibur, Tekken... and any other fighting game I'm missing. You get rid of that and have only a long boring one round that's not going to please anyone... That means that whoever is getting the shit beat out of them, they can't recover for during the next round and make a comeback.

One round is boring enough.

You also state that they should get new voices... It's a voice. I don't get how some people would want to change the voices. Gran it that each character should have their own individual voice, but that's just a hell of a lot of voices you're asking... Yeah two people could make that happen... but it's a voice. Unless there's a part in the game where the character is literally talking where they're saying full sentences instead of just grunts and screams, then we can worry about the voice casting... until then... no to that as well.

The fights should be in an all open area which when I first read that I was confused... why should we have the right to wonder around the entire arena? That's going to distract everyone from the main point of Mortal Kombat, which is to beat the holy crap out of the other guy. Wondering around a giant arena sounds like some fighting RPG game if you ask me. And Mortal Kombat does not need to revamp itself to a RPG genre.

Yes, I may have shut down your opinion, I have a tendency to do that without acting like a jackass, but your opinions don't make sense at all for this. Why change the rounds, why does the voices matter and why should it suddenly be an all open arena? Mortal Kombat is just a game where it has to fighting someone under a minute to beat the crap out of. It's not suppose to make you feel like you're in Warcraft and enjoy the game by wondering around aimlessly doing absolutely nothing unless you're seriously interested in getting things done. Which in this case, you wouldn't be wondering around the arena, you'd just stay put and watch everyone come after you and fight you.

But getting back on topic and answering this question...

The reason why I feel like they're failing is because they need people who actually knows how to stay on topic... Mortal Kombat has lost its main point in the storyline. Which caused the entire story to suddenly lose a lot of the players' interest, have made them confused, or some other reason... I don't get why the story got off track. Mortal Kombat is supposed to be about a tournament... not some ancient undead army that's been rediscovered by the evil sorcerers.

Also, I feel that they lack a lot of... knowledge... They know exactly what to do on how to make this game better, they just tend not to show it. I understand switching from the old generation to the new was a big move, but honestly, making the next game a crossover wasn't something to seriously do when heading into something new. I mean, yes it was change, and we... well, most of us... wanted change in the counrty, well, there's your change and not that many people were too pleased.

They just lack knowledge and I know... I doubt that Tobias had anything to do with it after he left, I don't think that MK4 was a failure, I enjoyed Deadly Alliance, Deception and Armageddon... its just that they have no idea what they're doing with the game now that there's 8 games out... I mean, yes, I know it's hard to think up of more things to do with a series that has more than 5 games out, but you can think of anything... you can't just stop.

I have a migraine while writing this and it's annoying me so I think I'm going to stop writing this.

Can I ask how is the storyline confusing? I think it's a Main Strength to the MK franchise...

When portions (at times, large portions) of that story are deemed untrue, rewrite (retconned), or outright untrue (non-cannon), things get confusing. Also, while in the process of writing the story over time, if things are not fully explained (fleshed out), the story can become a jumbled mess, and confusing to even the most adamant follower of said story.

These instances have happened to Mortal Kombats story over, and over and over again, over the years.

Here are some examples:

Retcon(s): Read Here.

Non-Canon Story stuff: Anything story from the Mortal Kombat movies. None of anything about either of those movies is true and so, those movies (the cartoon, and the t.v series as well) may as well not exists at all. Remember "Raiden is Shao Kahns brother, and Shinnok is their father"? NON-CANON = Not True = Doesn't exist in the MK story anywhere.

Not Fleshed Out: Ask yourself, "Why do the bad guys fear Raiden in Mortal Kombat, if he can die?....What can he do to them that is worth them fearing him?" Also, think of anything that you don't know about all these new characters. They are not "fleshed out" well, and therefor, present an element of confusion and dis-consern (people don't care) about them.

Those are just a few of the nods to why Mortal Kombats storyline is confusing without getting into specifics, and the whole "game and character specific" debacle.

I don't think plot holes, and continuity problems are that big of an issue. Most fighting games make no effort in making a story at all. In MK vs DC I thought story mode was executed very, well because there was no confusion, and very few plot holes. I think we should be thankful that MK made a story mode in a fighting game instead of forgeting about it like VF5, or dare I say SF4. However, it's not that big of a deal, because if you buy any fighting game for the story your an idiot. So in conclusion it is confusing but it still remains one of MKs strengths.

Sorry, Pred, I usually agree with you, but for some reason it bothers me when people complain about the story in a fighting game.

well VF5 and SF4 both released in the arcades didn't they? in that case a story isn't really needed because well...it's arcade.

however since MKDA it's been strictly on home systems and thus a need for a story is created. besides VF has a pretty clear cut story. i'm not saying it's way good or anything but it's not hard to follow at all.

i guess the reason why MK is failing is partly because of how quick the games come out. they dev team really doesn't have enough time to greatly improve on the system that they have. also they probably don't do a whole lot of testing because of the short time frame also.


also mortal kombat has things missing that a fighting game should never have missing. it still doesn't have time attack or survival mode. also it's missing a player vs. cpu mode. that latter is especially important i think because i'm STILL playing SCIV because of the vs cpu mode. it'd add a lot of replay value.

basically i guess mk just doesn't have a lot of things other fighting games have.

There is no need to apologise for having a different opinion about something, but saying those who do not share your opinion idiots, is something to apologise for.

The facts are that MK is not a great fighting game compared to others, and that MK has been slacking a bit in the last few installments (Armaggedon and vDC). But MK is the only fighting game franchise that I buy/play. The main reason being because of the characters and the storyline.

I enjoy playing as Scorpion, learning about his history (story), see what new moves he has and what his new look will be. I also like to see what new characters have been brought to the series and how old characters have been brought back.

I DO want a way better fighting system, more modes, and more time and care put into the game, because I want Mortal Kombat to be all it can be. But, I would buy MK with or without these improvements simply because I am a fan of the series.

You're kidding...

For a game that's supposed to be motivated by its story and its characters, it's a humongous problem. I'm merciful though, because I don't think they completely realized what they started out with back in MK 1-2. Then, there's the whole Midway parent company thing to factor in. But, once it came to getting into the details of things later on, they fudged alot. A LOT.

-- MkvsDc is completely non-canon, so ew. The fact that it was non-canon is a conceit to them not wanting to address that there are problems with the story to begin with. It's a willing admittance to the fact that the story mode itself is BS. haha..

I hated the story mode because it completely lacked player creativity and player control. On top of that inability to actually play through the thing, the story wasn't written well enough to mean anything even if they wanted it to. It was terrible. lol I mean, I get the concept of "just a fun game for once", but really? Two groups of well known good guys can't figure out that the other group of good guys are good guys until we get to the end? HA! That's bad writing my friend. It infers that everyone is a dumbass except for Raiden, Superman, Batman, and maybe Quan Chi.

I figure, why give me a video game to "play", if you're gonna only show me videos, and basically dictate who I can play with, when I gonna play with them, and who I'm gonna play against? "Where I'm gonna go in the game", was waaay too predetermined as well in MkvsDc. The whole Story mode in that game was a Joke.

Well, not the whole thing, I guess the only thing that was really good about the story mode was that they got real voice actors, and matched them up really well (outside of Shang Tsung). I hope that continues to happen btw.

I was not happy though, and I'm not gonna fool myself into being thankful for garbage. That story was so elementary man...somebody with a crayon wrote that story. lol

--

I don't think it's idiotic to buy a fighting game for its story, especially and almost exclusively concerning MK. Number one, because there is a good story in there (it's consistently being scattered all over the place now though), but also because there's multiple reasons to buy it for its story.
1.) The over arching game story,
2.) each individual characters' involvement in that overarching game story,
3.) character backgrounds and sub-plots, and
4.) the endings to all of these things for that game.

I don't think it should bother you that people complain about MK's story element because it's a clear indicator that there may actually be something wrong with it that you haven't considered before. I think that if you're gonna be bothered about it, you should take a posture that suggests that the story element in MK should be way better than it is. Just my take though...

I look at it like this;

Mortal Kombat is right around 17yrs old. So, if its story isn't competing with a good graphic book of some sort, or an action-martial arts//adventure//horror//drama//fantasy movie (because those are the predominant elements in this game, right?), then they get a worse grade then they would have, had they stepped it up to at least on par.

This I've said before, and its that Mortal Kombat has shown the capability to be this sort of all encompassing video game. Able to apply great attributes from all types of games (not just the fighting genre), and alot of other media sources.

So what? So within the spectrum of almost 20yrs now, I think some of the elements in these MK games should be mastered by now. That's what. Really, I think all of them should be mastered by now.

Story element
Gameplay mechanics
Character build, design, and portrals
Fantasy element
Aesthetics like mood, the themes, and the overall presentation.

These things at least, should be down to a science for the MKTeam....and, they don't seem to be at all.

I don't think you fully understand what I'm saying. Most fighting franchises put little to no story in their games. The only other fighting game to make an actual story mode was Smash bros. brawl and that lacked dialog and an engaging plot. I thought the MK vs DC story was great for a fighter, becauese it was long, it was coherent, and it was fun. It was pretty much like a summer blockbuster. It's not going to get an oscar, but it has other aspects that make it enjoyable. I also liked how it was non-canon, because it's a crossover and I wouldn't want it conflicting with the rest of the story line. Also, when has MK's story ever been that great? It's never really been bad, untill MKD. All the early games had very little story, and all you would get is a "what if" ending depending on what character you chose. MKD, and MKA had god awful story modes in comparison to MK vs DC. I didn't give a shit about Shujinko. All he was, was a kung fu movie cliche. I can barely remember MKA's story, because it was a bland plot with a bland main character. I can't believe you didn't like MK vs DC's story, because it had the classic characters finally meeting their match.

Secondly, I do think if you pay $60 for a fighting game just for the story you are an idiot. I don't have a problem with liking a game for it's story, but the fighting genre should be the last place to look because, most of your play time won't be story driven. If you want a good story, play an RPG, or a survival horror. If you're truly interested in nothing but the characters then just wikipedia them, instead of wasting you're money.

Sure I do, I just don't attempt to equate Mk's story element value by other fighting games' lack of a story element. Or the lack of the quality in them. It's an objective thing..y'know, each one has it's own thing. I mean I wouldn't judge SCalibur on hand to hand combat, just because MK and the others have it, and SC doesn't really dabble there.

SC has a story element, but it's just not....that...good, heh. That's my second fav fighter btw.



Oh come on...I'm being a little facetious but, it took maybe 3hrs tops to go up both sides. MKD's Konquest took something like 6 or 8hrs played through (something like that)? MkvsDc's story mode was not long at all. And we didn't get to play through the majority of it, we watched it. lol All those cut-scenes?

I'd argue coherency, but I already mentioned how nobody could figure out who any of the other good guys were. The characters themselves were not coherent representations of themselves. At best, the story mode was okay the way of cohesiveness. Y'know, it made sense to be as stupid as it was, because it was stupid in the first place. Which, I won't harp over because it was a stupid crossover in the first place. Everybody could see that though.

It was just supposed to be a fun game so, I'm cool with not arguing with that aspect of it. I agree with you on the non-canon thing too. I just get a knee-jerk reaction to it that reverts back to how silly the whole thing was.



Well you see, in the beginning that was okay. It was great when it was that because it was so early in the series. But when you make leaps in technology, and things like that, all elements of the entertainment source are supposed to make the equivalent leap.

MK4 I was like; "Wtf is this?"
MKDA I was like; "Wth is going on?!"
MKD I was like; "Alright now, they can cut it with the jokes."
MKA I was like; "They can-not be serious..Really?!"
MkvsDc I was like; "G-TF-Outta-Here!", haha...

Again, I'm having fun with it, but that's about what my initial reaction to these games were.



Ahhh, I've seen this before. Basically, you like the cut-scenes w/ an opportunity to play, and that's enough to satisfy you. I like to play through the thing and explore, with maybe a cut scene here or there to fill in any blanks, or to deal with large amounts of time passing. Like what happened in MKD and MKA's Konquest modes.

Not saying one way is better than the other, it's just a style thing man. I'm not gonna blame you for that.

Far as content though, I get waay more substance out of playing through things, and figuring out things. Finding stuff....ect. I want them to give me as much control over progressing the game and my character as possible. I like the open ended Konquest mode too, so I can go back and retrace my steps and all that. God of War is a fav, I like Assassins Creed, and Prototype looks good for me. I ain't really into GTA though, and I'm nit-picky when it comes to shooters.

I'm a Mario Bros baby, if I can't jump and run, acquire special powers, find secrets and extra modes and stuff like that, I'm not happy.

The actual story in MKD and MKA was better written, thanks to Vogel and team too. There's no way I see how MkvsDc was better on that front. They took more time with MKDA, MKD, and they did so moreso with MKA's konquest mode than with MKvsDc's story mode.

Nevermind Jinko and Taven, the things were better put together and it shows by how much more play we got out of them.



First, look man, the dumbest thing you could continue to do here, is be judgmental about a consumer buying what they wanna buy, for the reasons they like to buy what they buy. Because what people buy with their own money, (especially for entertainment purposes) makes them happy.

So, by actual definition of the word "Stupid", that's literally the stupidest thing you can say to any consumer, just because you may not share the same reasoning for buying a fighting game as somebody else. It's quite stupid in fact, because it assumes a position that infers that you are actually unhappy, with how other people spend their own money. If this is not true, then cut it out with the idiot thing.

And I see the probe in your linguistics too so, you can search MKO for an answer to whether I actually bought the game or not.

Secondly, and like said before, MK IS driven by its story, and it's characters involvement in that story. That's a perfectly legit reasoning to buy any MK game, stand alone. So from my perspective in fact, most of my play is driven by obtaining pieces of the story and putting those things together to realize a continuity.

It's been well known for a long time that this is a part of the allure to a Mortal Kombat game. Hell, they advertise the thing like a great movie with a at east an aggressive storyline for Christs sakes.

MKvsDc
Armageddon
MK Shaolin Monks
Deception
Deadly Alliance
MK4
MK3-T
Mk2
MK1

Dates back all 17yrs now that they've been doing this. What have you been looking at this whole time? What do you think you've been playing this whole time?

I mean, those aren't the only commercials or whatever, but just from those, you should be able to tell that this a video game interpretation of a fighting movie.

idk. I'd rather make the case that buying MK for it's gameplay mechanics is more of the mistake.