Why cant characters remain canonically dead?

Mortal Kombat X

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posted12/22/2014 03:20 AM (UTC)by

DG1OA

@DG1OA

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06/15/2011 08:07 PM (UTC)

Or undead, as in, permanently affected by returning from the dead?

We all know that death in MK is meaningless. But it doesn't have to be that way. Remember Classic Sub-Zero and Human Smoke in UMK3/MKT? They were on the roster, but they weren't canon. Why can't the same be done with dead characters? Brought back only for gameplay purposes and sales, with what-if stories and endings.

In the case of undead characters, like revenants we might be getting, their living selves could always be alts, with different intros and outros if necessary, but who'd play just like their undead selves.

I don't see why that hasn't been done yet. It would allow the story to progress, and for fans of (un)dead characters to still play as them. I mean, the popular ones will inevitably return anyway, so does it really matter if they're not actually involved in the story?

OttoVonRuthless

@OttoVonRuthless

•12/19/2014 03:06 PM (UTC) •

I swear there was a thread on this last month.

DarkenedSoul

@DarkenedSoul

•12/19/2014 03:10 PM (UTC) •

They should stay canonically dead, if not, the story would be non-canon.

sharefrock

@sharefrock

•12/19/2014 03:15 PM (UTC) •

OttoVonRuthless Wrote:
I swear there was a thread on this last month.

I actually thought this was the same thread lol.

And Since mortal kombat took it upon themselves for creating movie-like story lines I believe they should explain how somebody comes back.

If dead characters are just there for no reason then it will cheapen the whole concept of death in story mode because you'll never be worried about a character dying.

DG1OA

@DG1OA

•12/19/2014 03:28 PM (UTC) •

sharefrock Wrote:

OttoVonRuthless Wrote:
I swear there was a thread on this last month.

If dead characters are just there for no reason then it will cheapen the whole concept of death in story mode because you'll never be worried about a character dying.

Because that isn't already the case, with dead characters always returning, canonically?

If my idea was applied, the dead characters wouldn't appear in the story mode, save for flashbacks, or because they were undead and permanently affected by it. So a character's death would have the impact it should actually have on the story.

If anyone Sindel killed in MK9 already return, exactly as they were prior to dying, then that whole massacre was already meaningless.

sharefrock

@sharefrock

•12/19/2014 03:38 PM (UTC) •

DG1OA Wrote:

sharefrock Wrote:

OttoVonRuthless Wrote:
I swear there was a thread on this last month.

If dead characters are just there for no reason then it will cheapen the whole concept of death in story mode because you'll never be worried about a character dying.

It's pretty obvious that most of not all the dead characters will return but I would like an explanation as to why they are there.

We already know that Quan Chi can resurrect the dead he did it before.

But I really don't think that's a good explanation because it just feels like a cheap move on the writers part.

And do you think they don't regret what they did with the MK9 when Sindel killed almost all the good heros?

They might act like they knew what they are doing but I can bet you that they think that move was a stupid move because it was.

JAX007

@JAX007

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•12/19/2014 03:46 PM (UTC) •

Here's what Shawn Himmerick had to say about MK9's dead characters:

[Hardcore Gamer] How strict will MKX adhere to continuity of the last game, specifically as it relates to dead characters?

[Shaun Himmerick, NetherRealm Studios] Well, the last game is canon, and we’re playing pretty strict to that. However, we do have Quan Chi in the game, who is a sorcerer, so, during the last Mortal Kombat game he resurrected some characters who are now kind of revenants — from the dead he resurrected them and they could fight against you. They looked a little zombie-esque, revenants as we call them, so that is a possibility in the game. Now, in the lore of Mortal Kombat, Quan Chi has resurrected various people from the dead and they’ve returned in various forms that don’t always work, because his technology isn’t the greatest, right? So, there are ways to bring back people. They may not be perfect or as they have ever been, but they can come back.

http://www.hardcoregamer.com/2014/12/09/mortal-kombat-x-executive-producer-shaun-himmerick-talks-tournaments-goro-game-modes/122232/

Scorpion and the first Subby have remained as undead and are still involved in the story.

DG1OA

@DG1OA

•12/19/2014 04:01 PM (UTC) •

JAX007 Wrote:
Here's what Shawn Himmerick had to say about MK9's dead characters:

[Hardcore Gamer] How strict will MKX adhere to continuity of the last game, specifically as it relates to dead characters?

[Shaun Himmerick, NetherRealm Studios] Well, the last game is canon, and we’re playing pretty strict to that. However, we do have Quan Chi in the game, who is a sorcerer, so, during the last Mortal Kombat game he resurrected some characters who are now kind of revenants — from the dead he resurrected them and they could fight against you. They looked a little zombie-esque, revenants as we call them, so that is a possibility in the game. Now, in the lore of Mortal Kombat, Quan Chi has resurrected various people from the dead and they’ve returned in various forms that don’t always work, because his technology isn’t the greatest, right? So, there are ways to bring back people. They may not be perfect or as they have ever been, but they can come back.

http://www.hardcoregamer.com/2014/12/09/mortal-kombat-x-executive-producer-shaun-himmerick-talks-tournaments-goro-game-modes/122232/

Scorpion and the first Subby have remained as undead and are still involved in the story.

Yes, and being undead has had a permanent effect on them so far. But a character like Jax, who was introduced as a living one, will probably never be permanently affected from returning from the dead. You might bring up Bi-Han again, but he's an exception, and he had his younger brother who replaced him as the living Sub-Zero, and who was accepted by the fanbase. I don't think Cassie would be as accepted as a permanent replacement to Johnny if he died or was retired (though Sonya seems to be a different story).

So if NRS' too spineless to permanently kill any characters, then bringing them back as non-canon what-if characters's the solution. Evil Ryu is one example of a character that's almost always been a what-if one, and most SF fans don't seem to mind.

Blade4693

@Blade4693

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•12/19/2014 04:27 PM (UTC) •

I have wondered this myself, like have some of the characters stay dead when it comes to the actual story, and maybe bring some of them back as DLC, unlockable characters or just straight up playable from the start characters that just don't have an effect on the story.

JAX007

@JAX007

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•12/19/2014 04:40 PM (UTC) •

DG1OA Wrote:

JAX007 Wrote:

Yes, and being undead has had a permanent effect on them so far. But a character like Jax, who was introduced as a living one, will probably never be permanently affected from returning from the dead. You might bring up Bi-Han again, but he's an exception, and he had his younger brother who replaced him as the living Sub-Zero, and who was accepted by the fanbase. I don't think Cassie would be as accepted as a permanent replacement to Johnny if he died or was retired (though Sonya seems to be a different story).

So if NRS' too spineless to permanently kill any characters, then bringing them back as non-canon what-if characters's the solution. Evil Ryu is one example of a character that's almost always been a what-if one, and most SF fans don't seem to mind.

Shawn's reply suggests otherwise tho, the dead characters might return as altered selves like Scorpion is. "They may not be perfect or as they have ever been, but they can come back."

Personally, I can see them doing this with Kitana. I fully expect her to be in it.

JAX007

@JAX007

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•12/19/2014 04:42 PM (UTC) •

Sorry, messed up the quote there.

Denizen

@Denizen

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•12/19/2014 05:17 PM (UTC) •

Maybe now they will, technically, most of them have stayed dead for 20+ years, making their chance of revival slim, I believe the true battle is to free their souls from Quan Chi's control and to finally give them eternal rest.

Everyone returning as a revenant is not something I would like to see, it would lose impact, imo, some key characters returning from the dead should occur under very specific conditions and with strong motivations derived from the plot, like Kang seeking revenge against Raiden for what happened on MK9.

Quan chi's powers have some inconsistencies that bother me, does he need to have control over the souls in order to revive and corrupt them, how did he revive Sindel then? I think to revive every dead character under your control is way OP without some clear explanation of how it works, there must be some sort of limitation to Quan Chi's necromancy, what's stopping him from reviving Shao Khan or Onaga? if he was so powerful he wouldn't have to scheme so much.

nightbreed_16

@nightbreed_16

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I will rock you.

•12/19/2014 05:45 PM (UTC) •

I have to be honest this is what I think is true that Ed Boon never thinks anything in Mortal Kombat is canon.

redman

@redman

•12/20/2014 05:12 AM (UTC) •

JAX007 Wrote:
Sorry, messed up the quote there.

I'm betting Kitana will be in MKX as a villain. Just a gut feeling.

SwingBatta

@SwingBatta

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•12/20/2014 05:40 AM (UTC) •

Same reason they keep getting included in every game: the fans turn around and complain ad nauseam about their omission. They demanded Motaro and friggin' Khameleon for Armageddon, for God's sake.

Going way back, it was a nice change of pace not having Scorpion and Kitana in MK3.

Detox

@Detox

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You work with what you got...not what you hope for.

•12/20/2014 01:02 PM (UTC) •

DG1OA Wrote:

We all know that death in MK is meaningless.

DG1OA Wrote:

Yes, and being undead has had a permanent effect on them so far.

Yup.

My question is, why should they remain canonically dead? MK has a vast universe, with different realms and plains of existence. Scorpion's entire being(for better or worse) is owed to the fact that he keeps coming back from the dead. I absolutely agree that it should mark them. You shouldn't die and come back with absolutely no character development. But I don't think death being finite in this game is necessary.

Also, fighting games live and die by their characters, you perma-death half your cast and you're going to piss off a lot of people.

DG1OA

@DG1OA

•12/20/2014 02:32 PM (UTC) •

Detox Wrote:

DG1OA Wrote:

We all know that death in MK is meaningless.

But again, the dead characters would still be on the roster, just not canonically so.

How many fans actually need to see their favorite characters alive and well in the story mode? Can't it be enough to still get to play as them in the arcade mode or online? Casuals certainly wouldn't care.

As for why some characters should stay dead, it's because I want the story to progress. I know killing off characters isn't the only way to achieve that, but when they do kill anyone off, let it stick. I want to see how their absence affects the rest of the MK universe. Imagine Sonya or Jax permanently losing one another.

And also, not everyone should come back from the dead, even if it permanently affected them. Cases like Scorpion, Noob Saibot and Smoke should be considered special ones. Otherwise it'd get redundant, and the undead would end up like the palette swap ninjas. I wouldn't trust NRS to do much with a permanently undead Jade or Stryker. Could anyone truly imagine them becoming the next Noob Saibot as far as intrigue and character development go?

If any of the deceased heroes return as Quan Chi's revenants, then it should be their last canon appearances.

MK-Noob

@MK-Noob

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•12/20/2014 03:03 PM (UTC) •

If you want non-canon characters in the game's roster, buy DLCs. It's a pity, but that's how things work nowadays.

MacyG88

@MacyG88

•12/20/2014 08:38 PM (UTC) •

If Netherrealm ever went with the permanent death route, maybe they could do something similar to Tekken with future games and have them appear as unlockable, non-canon bonus characters?

Brutemaster

@Brutemaster

•12/20/2014 09:23 PM (UTC) •

Boon doesn't know how to do such a thing, because if he did, he'd be afraid that the games won't sell good, due to the fans faves not being in the game(s).

MacyG88 Wrote:
If Netherrealm ever went with the permanent death route, maybe they could do something similar to Tekken with future games and have them appear as unlockable, non-canon bonus characters?

They would still be in the game though if they were unlockable or DLC.

unleash_your_tounge

@unleash_your_tounge

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•12/21/2014 02:12 PM (UTC) •

Lulz...

Cuz it's a fighting game.

DG1OA

@DG1OA

•12/21/2014 02:52 PM (UTC) •

unleash_your_tounge Wrote:
Lulz...

Cuz it's a fighting game.

Which is the exact same reason why dead characters don't have to be part of the story, just the gameplay outiside of the story mode.

Again, it's done wonders for Evil Ryu.

unleash_your_tounge

@unleash_your_tounge

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"Life, for all it's anguish, is ours Miss Ives. It belongs to no other." - Ferdinand Lyle

•12/21/2014 03:25 PM (UTC) •

DG1OA Wrote:

unleash_your_tounge Wrote:
Lulz...

Cuz it's a fighting game.

Which is the exact same reason why dead characters don't have to be part of the story, just the gameplay outiside of the story mode.

Again, it's done wonders for Evil Ryu.

So you're saying they're dead and playable and that's fine, just as long as they're out of the story material for the time being?

SF newb here, just sayin'.

I'm not against that.

DG1OA

@DG1OA

•12/21/2014 03:41 PM (UTC) •

unleash_your_tounge Wrote:

DG1OA Wrote:

unleash_your_tounge Wrote:
Lulz...

Cuz it's a fighting game.

Which is the exact same reason why dead characters don't have to be part of the story, just the gameplay outiside of the story mode.

Again, it's done wonders for Evil Ryu.

So you're saying they're dead and playable and that's fine, just as long as they're out of the story material for the time being?

SF newb here, just sayin'.

I'm not against that.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

Onaga

@Onaga

•12/21/2014 07:57 PM (UTC) •

Because characters make or break a fighting game. This isn't a narrative driven game it's a fighting game and might I remind you of the last fighting game that went this route? Soul Calibur 5. Yeah worked out great when they cut beloved characters huh?

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