This series neede to be more mature ( and I dont mean gore)
About Me
0
Sub-Zero_7th Wrote:
Actually, I think with the blood, gore, and violence, it would be nice to see it done in a cruel, scary way. I know that MK has pretty much always had that camp factor, but if they did the violence more like in the God of War games, you could still get away with being over-the-top while really appealing to that M rating.
Actually, I think with the blood, gore, and violence, it would be nice to see it done in a cruel, scary way. I know that MK has pretty much always had that camp factor, but if they did the violence more like in the God of War games, you could still get away with being over-the-top while really appealing to that M rating.
That would've worked like, 4 years ago. But now, with Gears of War, and every other game trying to bring the dark, gritty, grimy feel, it would just make MK seem like it's trying to jump on that bandwagon.
BiohazardEXTREME Wrote:
Yeah, there is a lot more over the top content itself. Like you said, the cyborgs.
But still, looking at the backstory of it, the history of Outworld, It does have a very dark and serious tone to it.
I mean, it could even be as simple as putting some justification to how they react. For example, remember in the movie, how Johnny Cage and Sonya reacted to Raiden, Scorpion, Sub-Zero? It was like, "How the hell is this even possible? What is going on?"
Instead, it's like, nothing surprises anyone, nothing impresses anyone. And I think that's kind of a problem. I mean, what's gonna happen when Johnny Cage faces Sub-Zero? He's gonna say, "I can handle this, it's a piece of cake!" But even if he IS cocky as hell, the fact that this guy is turning things to solid ice SHOULD intimidate him a little.
That and some actual character development. For example, it would be refreshing if the ever-so-cocky Johnny Cage actually grew to be a little more respectful and humble toward the end of the game. To show that the characters actually learned something and grew from it, and not just retained their one dimensional personalities throughout.
But I haven't read the script, so I don't know how they'll deliver it. This is more along the lines of a critique on the kind of writing we've seen in Deception, Shaolin Monks, and Armageddon. And to a lesser extent, MK vs. DC.
Yeah, there is a lot more over the top content itself. Like you said, the cyborgs.
But still, looking at the backstory of it, the history of Outworld, It does have a very dark and serious tone to it.
I mean, it could even be as simple as putting some justification to how they react. For example, remember in the movie, how Johnny Cage and Sonya reacted to Raiden, Scorpion, Sub-Zero? It was like, "How the hell is this even possible? What is going on?"
Instead, it's like, nothing surprises anyone, nothing impresses anyone. And I think that's kind of a problem. I mean, what's gonna happen when Johnny Cage faces Sub-Zero? He's gonna say, "I can handle this, it's a piece of cake!" But even if he IS cocky as hell, the fact that this guy is turning things to solid ice SHOULD intimidate him a little.
That and some actual character development. For example, it would be refreshing if the ever-so-cocky Johnny Cage actually grew to be a little more respectful and humble toward the end of the game. To show that the characters actually learned something and grew from it, and not just retained their one dimensional personalities throughout.
But I haven't read the script, so I don't know how they'll deliver it. This is more along the lines of a critique on the kind of writing we've seen in Deception, Shaolin Monks, and Armageddon. And to a lesser extent, MK vs. DC.
I don't really think having Johnny and Sonya being intimmidated would help at all. Johnny has powers in the games and in the film he doesn't. I also think the first film isn't anything to strive for even though it isn't terrible.
I also think Johnny will grow up in this game. I think of him as Ironman. He is a cocky, selfish, asshole who goes to the tournament for the wrong reasons. But he finds out that there is more at stake and decides to help save the world thus redeeming himself. However, he still retains the same personality. I also feel like his personality hasn't been very strong until now.
However, I do agree that characters should all have arcs and for the most part all of the main good guys have. Sub-zero has gone through a lot of changes. In MK3 Jax and Sonya say "fuck you military where going rogue to save the world". Johnny Cage leads the good guys in MKA. But some stay the same like Scorpion. He really hasn't evolved at all. Thats why I think he should win a tournament and save the world. That would be an ironic twist.
0
BiohazardEXTREME Wrote:
That would've worked like, 4 years ago. But now, with Gears of War, and every other game trying to bring the dark, gritty, grimy feel, it would just make MK seem like it's trying to jump on that bandwagon.
Sub-Zero_7th Wrote:
Actually, I think with the blood, gore, and violence, it would be nice to see it done in a cruel, scary way. I know that MK has pretty much always had that camp factor, but if they did the violence more like in the God of War games, you could still get away with being over-the-top while really appealing to that M rating.
Actually, I think with the blood, gore, and violence, it would be nice to see it done in a cruel, scary way. I know that MK has pretty much always had that camp factor, but if they did the violence more like in the God of War games, you could still get away with being over-the-top while really appealing to that M rating.
That would've worked like, 4 years ago. But now, with Gears of War, and every other game trying to bring the dark, gritty, grimy feel, it would just make MK seem like it's trying to jump on that bandwagon.
It wouldn't matter to me as long as it was done right. I think the problem here is having a sort of crisis where the series doesn't fully know whether to go in a more serious route or a more campy route. Considering all that's been going on with the series so far, it probably would have been better if they just made the whole thing more of a dark comedy/parody/spoof instead of having any real elements of seriousness within the characters, story, etc. That way, we get a clear sense of what the series represents, namely that none of is to be taken seriously.
It also seems to me that Tekken suffers from this sort of problem. You have more serious characters like Jin and then you have the joke characters like Panda. Tekken has pretty much always had some silly endings. They've been sort of trying to make things darker and more serious, but they're still suffering from the same kind of problem that Mortal Kombat has been in terms of not having a well-defined sense of how serious or silly the series is.
About Me
0
jbthrash Wrote:
I don't really think having Johnny and Sonya being intimmidated would help at all. Johnny has powers in the games and in the film he doesn't. I also think the first film isn't anything to strive for even though it isn't terrible.
I don't really think having Johnny and Sonya being intimmidated would help at all. Johnny has powers in the games and in the film he doesn't. I also think the first film isn't anything to strive for even though it isn't terrible.
Well, that might be a sound justification, but if the characters aren't intimidated by anything, then there's no point of having a storyline at all. Because at that point, the characters stop becoming interesting.
That's the thing, regardless of whether Johnny Cage or Sonya have powers, they should still comprehend the danger of their enemies, and feel like, "Oh crap, this is going to be a challenge."
Think of it this way. Imagine war. The two sides are equal, both sides have soldiers who are armed and deadly. But don't you think those guys still worry for their own lives? And in movies, it's the guy who's not afraid of anything that's usually the first to die, only to underline that much harder how much of a trial these soldiers are facing.
Sub-Zero_7th Wrote:
It wouldn't matter to me as long as it was done right. I think the problem here is having a sort of crisis where the series doesn't fully know whether to go in a more serious route or a more campy route. Considering all that's been going on with the series so far, it probably would have been better if they just made the whole thing more of a dark comedy/parody/spoof instead of having any real elements of seriousness within the characters, story, etc. That way, we get a clear sense of what the series represents, namely that none of is to be taken seriously.
It wouldn't matter to me as long as it was done right. I think the problem here is having a sort of crisis where the series doesn't fully know whether to go in a more serious route or a more campy route. Considering all that's been going on with the series so far, it probably would have been better if they just made the whole thing more of a dark comedy/parody/spoof instead of having any real elements of seriousness within the characters, story, etc. That way, we get a clear sense of what the series represents, namely that none of is to be taken seriously.
But it already did start leaning into being a parody of itself, we've seen that in Deadly Alliance and Deception, with characters like Bo Rai Cho, and hell, even Havik. And it sucked.
Mortal Kombat needs some seriousness.
Here's the thing, Mortal Kombat has always been ultra violent, and it's a great outlet. You say, "Man, I wanna beat the shit out of something, and leave it a bloody pulp!" You turn to Mortal Kombat. But if it's TOO over the top, and has too much comedy and self parody in it, then all that visceral violence loses its effect entirely.
It would become the equivalent of the ultraviolence we see in games like Brutal Legend. Yeah, it's funny in how much blood there migh be, for like ten minutes, then you forget about it. And all that violence completely loses its effect.
The difference between MK and Tekken, is that as far as I know, the vast majority of people don't play Tekken for the storyline, and as you'll see from these forums, hardcore MK fans often do care about where the storyline is going and what's going to happen to the characters. But I could be wrong, I haven't met many hardcore Teken fans.
About Me
Sig by MINION
0
BiohazardEXTREME Wrote:
That would've worked like, 4 years ago. But now, with Gears of War, and every other game trying to bring the dark, gritty, grimy feel, it would just make MK seem like it's trying to jump on that bandwagon.
Sub-Zero_7th Wrote:
Actually, I think with the blood, gore, and violence, it would be nice to see it done in a cruel, scary way. I know that MK has pretty much always had that camp factor, but if they did the violence more like in the God of War games, you could still get away with being over-the-top while really appealing to that M rating.
Actually, I think with the blood, gore, and violence, it would be nice to see it done in a cruel, scary way. I know that MK has pretty much always had that camp factor, but if they did the violence more like in the God of War games, you could still get away with being over-the-top while really appealing to that M rating.
That would've worked like, 4 years ago. But now, with Gears of War, and every other game trying to bring the dark, gritty, grimy feel, it would just make MK seem like it's trying to jump on that bandwagon.
Gears of War is gritty, Wouldn't call it dark. It's generic space marines stroking their metaphorical penises for 10 hours. The voice acting is atrocious and the storyline is generic space marine fodder and really conveys no real sense of darkness.
@Biohazard
Yeah I really don't think that's going to work. Having Sonya or Johnny being worried or humbled by their opponent wouldn't suit there characters, and honestly I don't see whats wrong with them as they are. I understand that they need to seem human and have flaws, but they can do that in other areas of the story. Having them scarred isn't going to help make them any more interesting IMO.
I will say that showing that Baraka and Reptile are on level playing fields would add a lot of tension as to who is going to win. But we could see the threat Baraka posses by seeing him slaughter hundreds of white lotus.
Yeah I really don't think that's going to work. Having Sonya or Johnny being worried or humbled by their opponent wouldn't suit there characters, and honestly I don't see whats wrong with them as they are. I understand that they need to seem human and have flaws, but they can do that in other areas of the story. Having them scarred isn't going to help make them any more interesting IMO.
I will say that showing that Baraka and Reptile are on level playing fields would add a lot of tension as to who is going to win. But we could see the threat Baraka posses by seeing him slaughter hundreds of white lotus.
0
BiohazardEXTREME Wrote:
Well, that might be a sound justification, but if the characters aren't intimidated by anything, then there's no point of having a storyline at all. Because at that point, the characters stop becoming interesting.
That's the thing, regardless of whether Johnny Cage or Sonya have powers, they should still comprehend the danger of their enemies, and feel like, "Oh crap, this is going to be a challenge."
Think of it this way. Imagine war. The two sides are equal, both sides have soldiers who are armed and deadly. But don't you think those guys still worry for their own lives? And in movies, it's the guy who's not afraid of anything that's usually the first to die, only to underline that much harder how much of a trial these soldiers are facing.
But it already did start leaning into being a parody of itself, we've seen that in Deadly Alliance and Deception, with characters like Bo Rai Cho, and hell, even Havik. And it sucked.
Mortal Kombat needs some seriousness.
Here's the thing, Mortal Kombat has always been ultra violent, and it's a great outlet. You say, "Man, I wanna beat the shit out of something, and leave it a bloody pulp!" You turn to Mortal Kombat. But if it's TOO over the top, and has too much comedy and self parody in it, then all that visceral violence loses its effect entirely.
It would become the equivalent of the ultraviolence we see in games like Brutal Legend. Yeah, it's funny in how much blood there migh be, for like ten minutes, then you forget about it. And all that violence completely loses its effect.
The difference between MK and Tekken, is that as far as I know, the vast majority of people don't play Tekken for the storyline, and as you'll see from these forums, hardcore MK fans often do care about where the storyline is going and what's going to happen to the characters. But I could be wrong, I haven't met many hardcore Teken fans.
jbthrash Wrote:
I don't really think having Johnny and Sonya being intimmidated would help at all. Johnny has powers in the games and in the film he doesn't. I also think the first film isn't anything to strive for even though it isn't terrible.
I don't really think having Johnny and Sonya being intimmidated would help at all. Johnny has powers in the games and in the film he doesn't. I also think the first film isn't anything to strive for even though it isn't terrible.
Well, that might be a sound justification, but if the characters aren't intimidated by anything, then there's no point of having a storyline at all. Because at that point, the characters stop becoming interesting.
That's the thing, regardless of whether Johnny Cage or Sonya have powers, they should still comprehend the danger of their enemies, and feel like, "Oh crap, this is going to be a challenge."
Think of it this way. Imagine war. The two sides are equal, both sides have soldiers who are armed and deadly. But don't you think those guys still worry for their own lives? And in movies, it's the guy who's not afraid of anything that's usually the first to die, only to underline that much harder how much of a trial these soldiers are facing.
Sub-Zero_7th Wrote:
It wouldn't matter to me as long as it was done right. I think the problem here is having a sort of crisis where the series doesn't fully know whether to go in a more serious route or a more campy route. Considering all that's been going on with the series so far, it probably would have been better if they just made the whole thing more of a dark comedy/parody/spoof instead of having any real elements of seriousness within the characters, story, etc. That way, we get a clear sense of what the series represents, namely that none of is to be taken seriously.
It wouldn't matter to me as long as it was done right. I think the problem here is having a sort of crisis where the series doesn't fully know whether to go in a more serious route or a more campy route. Considering all that's been going on with the series so far, it probably would have been better if they just made the whole thing more of a dark comedy/parody/spoof instead of having any real elements of seriousness within the characters, story, etc. That way, we get a clear sense of what the series represents, namely that none of is to be taken seriously.
But it already did start leaning into being a parody of itself, we've seen that in Deadly Alliance and Deception, with characters like Bo Rai Cho, and hell, even Havik. And it sucked.
Mortal Kombat needs some seriousness.
Here's the thing, Mortal Kombat has always been ultra violent, and it's a great outlet. You say, "Man, I wanna beat the shit out of something, and leave it a bloody pulp!" You turn to Mortal Kombat. But if it's TOO over the top, and has too much comedy and self parody in it, then all that visceral violence loses its effect entirely.
It would become the equivalent of the ultraviolence we see in games like Brutal Legend. Yeah, it's funny in how much blood there migh be, for like ten minutes, then you forget about it. And all that violence completely loses its effect.
The difference between MK and Tekken, is that as far as I know, the vast majority of people don't play Tekken for the storyline, and as you'll see from these forums, hardcore MK fans often do care about where the storyline is going and what's going to happen to the characters. But I could be wrong, I haven't met many hardcore Teken fans.
You do have a point about Tekken not really being played for its story, but the series still incorporates some more serious stories anyway. I have to disagree about Havik and Bo' Rai Cho to an extent. Those that don't like Bo' Rai Cho generally don't understand him. He's actually one of the more brilliant characters of the series, because his exterior is deceptive while there's actually more to him. There is a seriousness to the character behind his repulsive exterior. I want to say that I'm not against there being comedy in this series. I just want it to be done right and to not take away from the overall mature feel.
I have to disagree when you said that the series started leaning to becoming a parody of itself with MK: Deadly Alliance and MK: Deception, because those games actually had the balls to take more serious routes by killing off most of the main heroes. The whole thing with Liu Kang getting killed was a highlight of the story. I will say that things started to get bad when you get to games like MK: Shaolin Monks. Even though the game is fun to play, the overall story in how it's presented is just plain silly. It's almost like something out of the Naked Gun movies, except just plain bad.
There needs to be that sense of balancing out the serious and comical elements while working on the execution of those elements.
0
MK has always been cheesy as hell. It doesn't take itself seriously, and how could a game which such ridiculous characters. Hell, the idea of "Fatalities" is just playing to the crowd.
Now if you mean become more mature by getting a more nuanced storyline with characters with complex motivations and rivalries, and a theme to the story that actually means something, then yeah, I'm all aboard.
Now if you mean become more mature by getting a more nuanced storyline with characters with complex motivations and rivalries, and a theme to the story that actually means something, then yeah, I'm all aboard.
About Me
0
jbthrash Wrote:
@Biohazard
Yeah I really don't think that's going to work. Having Sonya or Johnny being worried or humbled by their opponent wouldn't suit there characters, and honestly I don't see whats wrong with them as they are. I understand that they need to seem human and have flaws, but they can do that in other areas of the story. Having them scarred isn't going to help make them any more interesting IMO.
I will say that showing that Baraka and Reptile are on level playing fields would add a lot of tension as to who is going to win. But we could see the threat Baraka posses by seeing him slaughter hundreds of white lotus.
@Biohazard
Yeah I really don't think that's going to work. Having Sonya or Johnny being worried or humbled by their opponent wouldn't suit there characters, and honestly I don't see whats wrong with them as they are. I understand that they need to seem human and have flaws, but they can do that in other areas of the story. Having them scarred isn't going to help make them any more interesting IMO.
I will say that showing that Baraka and Reptile are on level playing fields would add a lot of tension as to who is going to win. But we could see the threat Baraka posses by seeing him slaughter hundreds of white lotus.
Well, it's not even the idea of being scared. But it doesn't even seem like they react to their enemies' appearance. Okay, so, even if they have superpowers and are very brave...
It's one thing to say, "There's a strong opponent, but I'm brave enough to face them." and another to say, "There's a monster with huge teeth," or "A giant with four arms standing in front of me. How the hell is this possible? What's going on around here?"
But like I said, I would NEVER read up spoilers on the new game, so I don't know what that script is like. So I have no idea how Sonya and Cage are truly depicted in it.
But the way they depicted Cage in MK4, and especially Shaolin Monks was terrible.
And even now, quite frankly, I hate that whole, "You got Caged" catch phrase.
0
I just read this whole thread and signed up just to say it's one of the only intelligent debates about MK I've read online. Maybe the only one that hasnt descended into childish name-calling.
I guess that's the whole issue, until now every single online MK article I've read around teh intawebs has been:
"MILE3nA got Gr8 BOOBz, GET OVER HERE SC0rpion 420 yo!!11"
I've been playing MK since I was 12 when the original came out and I even remember back then all anyone talked about was "NiNJAZ and GORE!"
The MK has hung up its razor edged hat on the idea that it has over the top and provocative images, it's just a real shame that series is seen as totally gimmicky by many people.
The "all girls wear same outfit" argument is totally valid, especially in the new game, unfortunatly it would appear that Netherrealm assumes its the closest any of us would get to seeing a real woman I guess. Comics have a similar problem when depicting women.
I'm super stoked about the retro decision the new game is taking and I absolutely can't wait till next week. But I just wanted to write a few lines to congratulate some of the people on this forum being that most rare of creatures:
MK fans who don't live by "F*CK YEAH!11 FATAl1TY BITCH, SCORPION IZ DA BEZT!!!"
Kudos, MKOnline :)
I guess that's the whole issue, until now every single online MK article I've read around teh intawebs has been:
"MILE3nA got Gr8 BOOBz, GET OVER HERE SC0rpion 420 yo!!11"
I've been playing MK since I was 12 when the original came out and I even remember back then all anyone talked about was "NiNJAZ and GORE!"
The MK has hung up its razor edged hat on the idea that it has over the top and provocative images, it's just a real shame that series is seen as totally gimmicky by many people.
The "all girls wear same outfit" argument is totally valid, especially in the new game, unfortunatly it would appear that Netherrealm assumes its the closest any of us would get to seeing a real woman I guess. Comics have a similar problem when depicting women.
I'm super stoked about the retro decision the new game is taking and I absolutely can't wait till next week. But I just wanted to write a few lines to congratulate some of the people on this forum being that most rare of creatures:
MK fans who don't live by "F*CK YEAH!11 FATAl1TY BITCH, SCORPION IZ DA BEZT!!!"
Kudos, MKOnline :)
© 1998-2024 Shadow Knight Media, LLC. All rights reserved. Mortal Kombat, the dragon logo and all character names are trademarks and copyright of Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc.