Too much for a god? Are you doubting his power, or his motive?

Because what Raiden is going through right now is the EXACT same personality change Shao Kahn went through before he killed Onaga, took the throne of Outworld, and decided "merging every realm is a great idea".

Raiden is evil now, he is a future end boss, his eyes glow red for a reason. Sure, at the moment, his attitude is just "do what I did before, but more dickish", but he's going to keep getting worse as time goes on and this IS the way his perspective is going to change, we know that because Deception TOLD us he's following the Shao Kahn pattern. There's only two things that will stop Raiden from becoming the next Kahn: either the series reboots and there is no sequel to Armageddon, or the writers come up with a really stupid reason to turn him back into a good guy again.
So maybe it doesn't happen right away, maybe my idea would make a better MK10 than MK9. Either way, the Thunder God's gonna get it into his head to either conquer or destroy sooner or later, and all I'm saying is Edenia as his target would be an interesting story to see told.

Makes sense, but I don't think the team will ever make Raiden the main boss, and that's what he'd become since everyone would be involved in a scheme like that and would want to stop him.

I'm all for a more twisted, psychotic Raiden, though. I just don't think the entire story should revolve around him and a plot that has already occured before. I prefer something completely new.

Whether they keep Edenia around or not, if they bring Kitana back I think she requires three things story-wise...otherwise they should just let her go.

In my opinion, for Kitana to continue she needs...

1) NEW DIRECTION
Whether it's trying to defend/restore Edenia, feuding with Mileena, worrying about Shao Kahn, or simply assisting the Superfriends in a very broad & generic way, I think we can all agree Kitana needs something new to do. Her current schtick is old, done, and quickly growing stale if not stale already.

One way or another, her story is currently set up for some sort of climax in Armageddon...whether its just closure of her current chapter and setting up a new one or a final ending that'll be her exit. Either way, something needs to happen and if she comes back, we need to see new things happening to her and with her.


2) INDEPENDENCE/SELF-RELIANCE RESTORED
One thing that made Kitana bad ass in the early games was the sense that she was on her own and relying mainly on herself. She had just turned on Shao Kahn openly, Jade was trying to decide what she was going to do, and Kitana herself hadn't yet affiliated herself with the Superfriends. And this was cool. She was a lone warrior with all the world against her, relying on her skills and wits to survive.

NOW...on the Edenia front, she's surrounded by an army and backed up by Jade, Sindel, and now we might even add Taven to this mix. As others have already pointed out, such overcrowding around her is diluting. What's the point of Kitana if she has a version 2.0 of herself in the form of Jade running around? Why is Kitana so important to the realm if we still have the Queen and now an Edenian god in the picture? All of whom, share essentially the same goal and objective?

And if not lost in the Edenian sea, she's now officially a peg in the Earth hero squad Superfriends machine...which is a lame and boring machine to be a part of. The Superfriends are boring in and of themselves, but consider what Kitana's bringing to that table. What is she to the Superfriends? The bland "princess" of the group, and/or "Liu Kang's girlfriend."

Not good.

These were never Kitana's defining attributes and they shouldn't be now. If dead-bolting her to this machine is the only way to keep her "important" to the main plot, I'd rather she not be "important" and just be an interesting and compelling protagonist all her own.
Sub-Zero's done very well for himself and I believe a reason for that is, even though he's "one of the good guys," he's managed to avoid being shackled to the Superfriends. And if he ever does officially become one of "the team," I guarantee his story is going to die a little bit with each new game.

Kitana's lost her identity and becoming more recognized by a label than who she is as a character. It's wasting her potential, undermining the depth she already has, and frankly, is making her look pretty fucking dumb.

Which brings me to the third thing she needs....


3) HER BALLS BACK
Figuratively speaking, of course.

Now even though Shaolin Monks & MK vs. DC were non-canon and out-of-continuity games....Kitana's portrayal was really fucking awful in both of them. Only story purists and hardcore Kitana fans who truly understand her character are going to look at those games and say "They don't matter. That's non-canon...it doesn't count. That's not how Kitana is supposed to be."
Everyone else, meanwhile, is looking at those games and thinking "Is that really how Kitana is? Man, she's a fucking wuss."

NOT GOOD.

Canon or not, I consider MK vs. DC a major wake-up call, because like I alluded to earlier, if that's really how the MK team sees her and how they think she should be portrayed....there's something very wrong. Now I'm not saying they should regress the story and pretend Kitana's years as Princess didn't happen....but she needs to go back to her roots and basically, she needs to be a bad ass again.

-------------

Now, in my personal opinion, the best way to accomplish that is to make Edenia fall down and go boom.

Obviously, with no Edenia around, she's not going to bother trying to defend it anymore. If she goes into a self-imposed exile, like I suggest, she'll be on her own again. And even if she finds herself dragged into a heroic or semi-heroic role...it'll be grudgingly and reluctant, as opposed to her scurrying off to find the rest of the Superfriends to save the day. And finally, the experience can leave her bitter and angry....allowing her to maybe be less concerned with being the diplomatic princess, and revert to her more ruthless assassin-like ways.

But I'm open to ideas that can accomplish these three conditions without nuking Edenia. RazorsEdge's idea was interesting. If somewhere in there my three requirements can be met, I'm all for it.

If they can't do this, I'd rather they just let Kitana go. Ideally, with a good ending that'll give her proper closure...but, frankly, I rather see her dead than continue to see her sink into that embarrassment from MK vs. DC.

i say kill off sindel. she felt like she was just a side story to shao kahn, but i would have like to see her fight with her hair more. kill off kitana in a battle with mileena because i like mileena better.

i mean basically what im saying is you can kill off any fighter in a story because story doesnt REALLY matter in FIGHTING games. gameplay does though. i would keep sindel and kitana for GAMEPLAY PURPOSE because i feel like they could be explored more. but since you guys are talking about story then both of them can die. i mean mk1,mk2,mk3 all had such cliche simple story lines but the gameplay was good so nobody ever cared.

This attitude is holding us back as a community. I wish this were my website, for no other reason than so I could ban people who hold this opinion. I'm sure running a website is the biggest pain in the ass in the world and I'd be really terrible at it, but man, it would make me so happy to just erase it every time someone says a damn fool thing like "story doesn't matter durr hurr hurr, it's only a game where you punch and kick people for fun."
Not that there's anything wrong with thinking gameplay is important. But the thing is EVERY element is important, god dammit. The moment we allow the creators to believe that the audience doesn't care about a part of their game, they'll think it's okay to get lazy and try less hard on that part.
If it were Super Mario Bros. or Wii Fit or some shit like that, I could understand, because they don't expect anything like a plot or a reason to do things, it's just "Go. Have fun." But MK had a reputation for like fifteen YEARS of being the only fighting game where the writing is good.
Then all of a sudden, they got lazy. They let Shaolin Monks not match up to the game it was supposed to be "expanding on and making deeper", they let Armageddon come out all kinds of unfinished, bios being one of the MANY things it was missing. I don't remember the exact words, but I recall Boon actually explaining why that shit turned out the way it did with something like "I didn't realize anyone cared this much about the story. It's just a fighting game." Where the hell did he get the idea that after all this time of building up the EXPECTATION that his game has certain things, that all of a sudden he could just leave those things out?
It's not just story, either. Now that we're in the 3D era, things like alternate costumes and the concept art Krypt are really damned important to the replay value. Even if you don't like them, at least finding them gives you something to DO. MK vs DCU is basically finished with nothing left to do after a day or two because there's not a single damned extra to unlock besides the two characters you get just for finishing story mode! TWO DAYS! What the fuck kind of video game is that?! For something that took them two years or longer to make and cost me 50 or 60 bucks, I expect some fucking meat on the bone. I expect a game that I can sit and think about and really get immersed in. MK vs DCU was definitely not worth full price.

Actually, the thing holing us back as a community is the fact that we spend more time arguing over trivial things like stories, fatalities, and costumes than we do discussing the actual games. Check out SRK or Tekken Zaibatsu sometime. The discussions are a night and day difference. They, believe it or not, discuss things like gameplay, framerate, and (gasp) tournaments.

I want no part of any community that plays Tekken. Those poor bastards couldn't discuss story even if they wanted to because there's none to be had. I can't imagine how one looks at a character select screen, has nothing to emotionally invest in, and just picks, basically, the moveset you like best rather than the character you like best, because that's all the characters are. They're just personified moves lists, there's nothing else there. And every game has the same goddamn roster and the same goddamn gameplay, they just add like three more guys tops and call it a day, so if you own Tekken 4, why bother buying Tekken 6?
I don't see how such a limited, repetitive gaming experience is worth anything more than $20. But no, they charge full price. And people pay it. 'Cause hey, prettier graphics! Yeah, those are the kinds of people I wanna talk to. I'm sure they're real good conversationalists, what with all that intelligence and good taste they've demonstrated already by being suckered into purchasing yet another "new" version of a game they already own. But hey, I guess fighting game fans are trained to be okay with throwing money away by buying the same game more than once. Me personally, I've never owned ANY version of Street Fighter 2, or had MK3, UMK3, and Trilogy at the same time, or 4 and Gold at the same time, because I'm not an idiot.
Namco's only saving grace is that they also make Soul Calibur. That series has the "same gameplay and roster as the last three games had" problem too, but at least they also give you a create mode, concept art, and a storyline of a little substance, to create the illusion of newness and replay value.
I also have no desire to associate with anyone who enjoys playing in tournaments. Competitiveness and taking winning and losing seriously with a bunch of strangers isn't my idea of rational behavior, and pressing buttons isn't a real sport or a special skill worth celebrating and rewarding.
As far as I'm concerned, the only sane point of view and the only point of view that leads to intelligent conversation is mine: hate the shallow, boring fighting game genre, but love Mortal Kombat in spite of that, because it always brought more to the table. It aspired to be more than just another generic, dumb, repetitive, niche market exercise in punching and kicking, it expands beyond the genre's limits, occasionally branching out into other genres and other mediums proving that the FRANCHISE has real merit, on the strength of its CREATIVE elements.

story doesnt really matter in fighting games buddy. sorry but its not an action adventure game. this is not msg4 or god of war 3. MK IS A FIGHTING GAME. yeah im not stupid, i know you should have a solid story in fighting games, but it shouldnt be the main FOCUS. mk was a bloody fighting game that happened to have an okay story. gameplay should be the main focus, thats why some mk games have not been so good. they focus on blood and story lines to much. anyways fighting games always bring old or dead characters back in new games, FOR GAMEPLAY. so every fighting game story is going to be stupid and non cannon.

now for people who enjoy the stories they should make a comic or movie. fighting game are not for stories, they are for FIGHTING. and ask any fan what would they rather do, read about mortal kombat or play mortal kombat!!

I'm not sure how to respond to that without just repeating everything I just said.

So how about all the little boys and girls who don't like to read and only care about pressing shiny buttons and winning stop posting in topics about story discussion, and the grown-ups can go back to debating the merits of Kitana and Sindel. Would that be okay, maybe? Any way we can talk about the actual topic without any more interruptions from the kids table?
Because, y'know, I don't post in topics about gameplay. I leave you people alone. Maybe you could show a little goddamn courtesy and return the favor JUST FOR ONCE, huh?

This post was bad and you should feel bad.

On the contrary, I'm real happy with that post. It makes me feel good. RIghteous and justified, even. The only way I could be happier is if I could act on my words and boot people like you from the damn thread.
Like I said, I don't EVER go into the topics about the things you like and start babbling about whether or not wake-up games and infinite combos matter. But your kind CONSTANTLY come into story topics and say the same shit about how it doesn't matter over and over again as though your opinions are welcome where they clearly have no bearing on the topic at hand.
On the internet, that's called "trolling". Like I said, the problem with this community is people like YOU because you do this being an interruption shit and the story people don't, they keep to their damn selves and never get off-topic until you show up. And while most message boards have rules against that kind of incendiary behavior, MKO doesn't really take moderating people or keeping the peace seriously, so the "coming into topics and saying they don't matter even though they clearly DO matter to the people posting in them" rash is allowed to spread. Like a virus or a cancerous tumor.
Now since this argument is not on-topic, I have a suggestion. You started it, I want to finish it. If you're not going to talk about Kitana and Sindel, you can either keep it up and prove everything I just said about you is true, or you can stay the fuck out of the story threads until you have an INTELLIGENT CONTRIBUTION to make to them. The choice is yours.

man you take the story to seriously. you are the one who sound like a kid. mk does not need fans like you. its the reason the game sucks compared to other fighters. but hey thats my opinion!! like i said before story really does not matter in fighting games. lol

Excellent job on the whole posting something that's on-topic for once and proving me wrong about you people having no manners and just disrupting topics thing. You really answered the call to arms there.

I can see that if I want this train to get back on the rails, I'll have to put it there with my own two hands. So. Edenia. Princess and Queen. That whole business...

Y'know what I wonder? Deception had a point in the story about Tanya leading Onaga to Edenia because that's, like, where the instructions to re-merge the Kamidogu are hidden. And Onaga's tomb had Edenian writing even though it's in Outworld. I wonder what the connection is there, like if there's something important about Edenia we haven't been told yet. Rain's Armageddon bio did mention that the Edenians are descended from gods, and that's why they live so long...

In my opinion, storyline is the only thing worth discussing on a message board.

You really think I give a flying rat fuck that someone can do a 72% combo in the corner? What's to even discuss? "Hey congratulations, you can press buttons better than I can. You want a cookie?"
Framerate? People actually discuss framerate? I'd rather watch flies fuck.
Also, personally, I can't stand reading people's posts on arenas and fatalities. Sorry guys, but it doesn't sound anywhere near as interesting as you're imagining it.

Now don't get me wrong. I realize storyline isn't the most improtant thing in a fighting game. Obviously, gameplay, fatalities, and whatnot are crucial. That should go without saying. But I find storyline just as crucial as do many other fans. And we will discuss it.

If you want to start topics discussing gameplay mechanics and what new arenas the games need, by all means post away. I'm not going to discourage you. And you know what, you're not going to see me posting long-winded speeches about story in those topics.

So if you don't care about storyline, here's thought:
Deal with it and fuck off.

It's okay to like MK's story and like Tekken's gameplay, really it is. I do. When the game makers have to compete for positive feedback (and $$$) from the fanbase for the things they do right, it's the fans who win in the end, after all.

I personally am of the opinion that Mortal Kombat has developed into two distinct and, honestly, incongruous directions. Sure, it sells copies, but you'd be hard-pressed to find a 10 of 10 review. I think the reason is something we're all aware of, but loathe to admit: something's gotta give. The series is in arrested growth, simultaneously wanting desperately to develop into a deep fantasy saga but continually held back by the fact that it's known as a bloody time killer that wouldn't dare make its audience think too hard for fear of losing the casual, play-with-a-friend demographic that just likes to see heads explode for a good laugh. My personal earnest hope is that the WB acquisition can finally allow MK to successfully have it both ways, using its resources to give the MK storyline the push it deserves in other media that can do it far better justice to let the game makers focus solely on making a decent f*ing fighting game for once.

MK has had in-continuity comic books before. Why not put a ton of resources, top talent, and advertisement in an ongoing MK comic book (published by WB's heavyweight subsidiary, DC Comics) and having the games based on that, rather than the other way around? This way, those of us who like a good story can get it without having to deal with 18-button dial-a-combos and Bo' Rai Cho's hiLARious flatulence fatalities while the casual players can get their kicks to a more streamlined fighter that can pour its storyline-writing resources into more reasonable pursuits, like not taking away characters' entire movesets due to time constraints and tepid Konquest modes.

It's win-win, really.

I also think MK deserves a long-running comic book series. That would be awesome. And now that it's owned by the same makers of DC Comics, why not?

But truth be told, people add MK to their video game piles, not their book shelves. So within it's current and main form of media, the story should not be prioritized.

However good the story can be, once it's read once, it's over. That's what makes a good rental. Gameplay, on the other hand, can be fun for months or even years sometimes. That's the selling factor.

And look at the reviews. They always evaluate the gameplay experience, hardly ever the story.

I'm just being honest, but I agree that story matters dearly to this series. I only wish it wasn't full of non-canon bullshit.

How many endings end up being non-canon? How many Konquest mode events turn out non-canon?

I wish they'd handle the stories more carefully. Like, why waste a fabulous ending on Sindel if it's just gonna be shat on? It's like she never even got one. How fair is that?

I don't like how numerous kombatants end up killing the boss in the end when we know only one of them will. I mean, are they dumb? And that's just one example. Why can't they be smarter in handling the characters? Clearly, story doesn't matter to them as much as we'd like to think it does.

yeah mk could have a cannon comic book series. the movies should be cannon and not the games.

but one thing i would like to see in the sindel kitana story is jerrod, kitana's father. i think mk should give us prequels of the story. show us how it all begin, in the movies!!

Story is the only thing worth a damn in Mortal Kombat. I mean, let's face it, the series isn't going to win any awards for great gameplay. The story sets MK away from other "these guys are fighting because some rich guy told them to" franchises, and I love that about it. Some people are idiots and can switch themselves off, and that is OK, but it makes for boring conversation.

Razor's idea of Raiden going after Edenia is an intriguing one. I've been reluctant to accept Raiden as a major villain in the future games, though, for one simple reason: We've played as Raiden before. In the story, sure, he may be an Elder God, but it'll be hard to just say "he's the end boss now" wouldn't it?

The story itself would be so interesting, though. Kung Lao could perhaps find himself doing something similar to what Bo' Rai Cho did for Liu Kang -- the mentor training Edenian warriors to protect them against Raiden's tyranny. Perhaps Taven finds himself locked in battle with Raiden? It might also give several characters in the Edenian plotline a reason to return.

It could lead into a fairly chaotic MKX. Hopefully the outcome to MK9's story leads to one of the realms (most likely Edenia) being taken over. Without the tournament structure there, Kung Lao would be on the battlefield, as could several other allies to either side. Meanwhile, a new villain could be lurking in the shadows...

Could make a very good one-two hit for the series, in my opinion.

No, they absolutely should not. The movies sucked and brought very little of any worth to the storyline.

Being able to play as Shang Tsung, Quan Chi, and Reptile, who became Onaga, never stopped any of the three of them from being awesome main villains. Playable bosses isn't a big deal. In fact, I prefer it..

no what im saying is the movies should have started out cannon. most times games are cannon and then the movie comes out different. it should be the other way around. im not saying that the mk movies were good or anything.

I actually agree here, mainly for the reason that we're expecting a reboot anyway under new ownership by a company that is actually known for making big budget movies. MK's got a fresh start in more ways than one, and allowing other media to do the heavy lifting for the story now could have a much better result than we got from Threshold in the '90s.

Though, if I wanted to see the games based off any other media, it'd be comic books. Otherwise you just get the impression that the game is just a way to cash in on the movies/TV series, when in reality the two would simply be doing better what the other might not necessarily be able to achieve.

C'mon man, you can't use Shinnok as an example. His problem isn't being playable, his problem is being complete garbage. If he had seemed powerful, if he'd had moves of his own, if he wasn't the worst character in the game gameplay-wise, he'd have been a better boss.

Goro is ALSO playable in the MK4 home versions, albeit as a hidden character, but he still FEELS like a boss, because he's tough and powerful.

Plus, the storyline of MK4 makes Shinnok out to be Quan Chi's pawn, so even though he's the last fight, he's not REALLY the main bad guy.

It still doesn't feel right to me. Intellectually, I agree with you, but a game with a playable boss would need to be done really well. Can you trust the MK Team with that? I also feel that it'd need a really select few characters to really focus on the gameplay. It'd also need more of a tournament-feel to the storyline.

Well, that's for me to buy it. Others may be different.