Maybe skimpy guys inspire laughter, because society has conditioned both men and women to view only women as the sexy (which to some, means trashy) gender. Men in skimpy clothing are probably viewed as feminine, thus laughable. Women in "manly" clothes are praised more than male crossdressers. I'm sure someone could suggest a new "manly" female character and not get scorned too much, but if one suggested a man wearing "feminine" clothes, well, at best, that someone is laughed out of the room (or forum, in this case), at worst, some people will want that person's head on a platter.

Look at the reaction Raiden got in Metal Gear Solid 2. Sure, some might say being forced to play as a new character instead of Snake was what was wrong, but I was checking many forums at the time, and Raiden was bashed largely because of his effeminate appearance. Quite frankly, I wonder if the fanbase's reaction would have been just a tiny bit less explosive if it was a new female character instead of an effeminate man.

(Personally, I think Raiden's current design is a lot scarier looking than Snake's ever was, and he still has his pretty facial features, and he wears heels).

Anyway, when it comes to the female characters' sexualized designs, if there's anything wrong with that, other than the lack of sexualized men to even things out, it's that such designs are often supposed to imply inferiority to the "more respectably-dressed" male characters, when to me, these designs are only sexy. I don't look at a nearly naked woman and immediatly view as a piece of meat. And the insistence on not sexualizing men reeks of sexist insecurity, to me.

Ew, that thread. I like my description better. :)

Kintaro a transexual, my goodness where do people think of things?

That thread was the reason for my existence sadly.

Topic wise, I would prefer if they finally make the female assassins wear what they wore in the movie, annihilation. As much as that movie was a nerve disruptor, I enjoyed the costumes they had the female assassins wear.

Meh. We already have Johnny Cage and Shao Kahn I think thats enough.

And i can't understand those who say that the females dress like hos, strippers, etc., IMO they don't at all.

Or maybe it's scientifically proven that the male brain and female brain look for different qualities in a mate.

And what is wrong with whores and strippers, anyway?

depends on how you view the whores and strippers. I personally have nothing against them.
But in my opinion, the mk girls (exept Mileena) don't look or dress like ones.

Truth be told, Street Fighter has tried doing extremely revealing costumes for men. With Urien, I actually think it works. It is the look I'd associate with a psychotic narcissist, so his appearance kinda makes sense.

But if something like that were to be implemented in MK, you'd have to somehow make it consistent with the character's story and personality. If it comes off as a joke costume, then it's a bad idea. It has to look like something the character would actually wear in the events of MK.

I'd be down for a topless Scorpion.



All credits go to XAMOEL

Well Urien and Gill had this gimmick of deliberately trying to look like these godly Renaissance statue-type figures. It wasn't meant to titillate at all, so their wardrobe, despite consisting of nothing but a loincloth/diaper thingy, didn't look tacky, it looked like a historical or mythological figure from ancient Greece.

It sounds like the initial suggestion though was calling for something deliberately inappropriate and flamboyant to match the "Kahn likes his daughter to look like a member of a Persian harem" or "A serious-about-her-career military woman, wearing a shirt under her vest? Nah, that would be silly!" looks Kitana and Sonya are sporting these days.

We already have an 80s porn star looking Nightwolf: http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110517144135/mk_/images/c/c4/Scorp_vs_Nightwolf_-_C%C3%B3pia.png http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110329174107/mk_/images/8/8e/MK9nightwolfVS.jpg (Have no idea to put images in comments)

My mistake.

It doesn't really matter if the skimpy designs are canon, or if they're just "joke" alts. The idea is only to sexualize the men more.

And even if Urien's design wasn't meant to turn anyone on, one would be naive to think it didn't have that effect on anyone. There certainly are people who watch UFC's male fighters, or male boxing, primarily to jerk off. Not something that certain people (mostly misogynistic losers) would like to hear, but it's true.

I keep seeing these explanations of women's attire in MK. I've seen the "Edenian culture" explanation, the "that's just crazy ass Milleena" explanation, the Kitana harem look etc.

As far as I can see (and this is all a matter of opinion, so to each his own), the harem style is slipper-type shoes, sheer pants, a small section of bare midriff, an ornate top with sequins and no cleavage that gives way to sheer sleeves.

I've never seen a harem outfit with thigh high heels (or heels in general), all the straps and cleavage like that. You'll never see that much bare skin in a harem outfit.

As for Sonya, she's had more and less conservative attire throughout the years. In MK9, she's wearing tight pants with straps, a bare midriff, giant boobs that are practically bursting out of some sort of half vest. That's her more conservative attire. That seems more military fetish than military.

I mean c'mon. These women are sexualized. To what degree is debatable, sure, but I never saw Sub Zero fashion himself an ice pole so that he could slide down it like a stripper the way Jade did. I don't see Cage wearing an outfit like Sheeva or an outfit made of tape like Milleena.

Now, before you call me a square, my feeling is this: Yes, I like women and all of their 2,000 parts. But this is a game that's selling me fantastical elements. Specifically a fighting game.

So I want my assassins to look like assassins, warriors to look like warriors (and that goes for the men and women). A ninja should look like a ninja (so yeah, no bright blue or red of yellow etc). A soldier or black ops character should look like that.

I don't need skin in a video game unless it makes sense. You want to show me a scene where Liu Kang and Kitana, after a build up of story, consummate their feelings in a scene that's sexy, romantic, passionate, revealing etc? Fine, no problems here.

But don't just sell me hyper sexualized women because you think that your entire demographic is sex-starved teenagers that have never heard of Pornhub. If it's not insulting, it's certainly unnecessary and unrealistic. It takes me out of the fantasy a little. But that's just me.

So no, I don't need dudes in their underwear any more than I need women in ninja lingerie.

The MK females actually dress like Hip Hop Video Models lol.









This is how America's Next Top Model does it Warrior Style. See high-fashion can work for MK females.

Why do I get the impression that you're not just playing devil's advocate, you're one of those people you're describing?

'Cuz if so, y'know, I'm fairly certain all the free streaming sites like Redtube have a guy-on-guy category, you can get it out of your system before you come here and talk to us, so it won't be on your mind, which will, by the way, also have the advantage of working properly because all the blood hasn't rushed away from your brain to somewhere else...

Yet another who thinks I'm in the closet. If I were a closeted gay/bi guy, would I be as confortable talking about sexualizing the male characters like I did by posting this thread?

I'm a straight guy who is extremely comfortable with his sexuality. I've always been fascinated by male sexualization, and homo/bisexuality. Skimpy guys don't turn me on, but they fascinate me. I've always hated how pathetically squeamish a lot of straight guys are when it comes to male sex appeal. Machismo makes wimps of both men and women. Not the same kind of wimps, but wimps, nonetheless.

Of the two things you're accusing me of, I'm only playing "devil's advocate". Besides, what difference would it make if I was indeed one of the people I'm describing? Would it invalidate my arguments even further in your mind? Like, the final nail in the coffin, something like that?

When I read the argument, "The women are fine the way they are, so let's sexualize the men for gender equity," I immediately start to think, "Women are fine earning lower salaries, so let's pay all the men less." You're not adding value to the system; you're taking value away.

MK women are portrayed in a hypersexual light regardless of their character traits and backgrounds. Sonya is on an important mission while on active military duty, but her guns are about to burst from their holsters at any moment because she's wearing a Sexy Soldier Girl Halloween costume. Jade is a top-ranking assassin; while it's fine for her to have an elegant outfit in relation to having a high rank in the Outworld court, the pole-dancing is severely out of character compared to everything else about her background and behavior. Meanwhile, Stryker gets to dress like a real cop and Johnny Cage loosens the tie on his red carpet-worthy suit. Warrior men look like warriors. Warrior women have more attack range with their boobs than their fists. What the hell?

Wanna see MK men being effeminate and/or sexy? Smoke has a more effeminate character design and personality than the other males, and it comes across with a degree of sincerity that makes it work, while dressing him up in a skimpy strappy gimp suit would just be ridiculous. Johnny Cage has a sexualized attitude because it's in his character to be a cocky tail-chasing movie star... unlike Jade, a serious assassin who happens to wield a staff weapon so "Hey guys, why don't we make her do a POLE DANCE!" Reiko has makeup and a tantalizing hint of his seriously fab abs in his MKA render -- that's looks sexy as shit, and I'm a straight dude with conservative tastes in my porn intake. Plus, he still looks like a man who has any business being in a fight -- and yet Mileena has no place to carry her sais in that toilet paper costume (all the guys get to have a place to store their weapons). One rolling attack or teleport kick and Mileena should be freaking naked, even with MK costume physics working out for her. Full nudity (or at least a bare chest) would have made more sense for that costume, both for practical and story reasons, and God of War has boobs so it's not all that taboo. Going halfway only highlights how much of a joke the whole thing is.

And that's the bottom line: MK women are sex jokes while the men are taken much more seriously. Turning the men into sex jokes doesn't strike me as a good way to fix that -- it just makes the whole thing more broken.

I've gotta agree with Razor; there's a difference between what's attractive on men and what's attractive on women. Men find things like breasts, legs, and hips attractive on women; the sexy outfits (as terrible as I think they were in MK) were designed to accentuate those features. Dressing a male character similarly in hopes of sexualizing him does not achieve that goal; those outfits are meant to accentuate the female form, not the male form.

What tends to be considered attractive on men are shoulders, biceps, abs, pecs, things that half of the male characters manage to expose just by not wearing a shirt. Of course it means nothing because they're all beefed up to ridiculous proportions that nobody would find attractive, just like the breasts on the female characters are (although surprisingly not everyone doesn't enjoy looking at that).

I will admit that I know a lot of women who really gawk over some nicely toned legs on a guy, and you don't see too much leg in MK (on the guys). I think shorts would work on some male characters like Johnny Cage (think a variation of his MK1 shorts). Another idea is to give some more characters the Shao Kahn or Kratos look. Of course, they would also need to fix the physique of all the characters in order for it to look attractive.

Indeed dressing a male character in short shorts and long boots will just be laughed at because it's feminine; it looks good on feminine figures (females), not masculine figures (males). The key to sexualizing (which I believe can be done) male characters is to accentuate their masculine traits, which they have been doing with some characters, to some extent for quite a while now.

Another thing I think they should do is un-sexualize some of the female characters. I know a lot of people like it or at least don't mind it, but we'll always have Mileena as the sex icon of MK; I want Sonya back as the more conservative one. Nobody's ever called sexism on the guys not wearing shirts, probably because not EVERY guy in the game is shirtless, and the variety of looks with the male characters isn't compromised by the need to make them so.

You don't get it. It's not that people are squeamish about sexy things on men, it's that DIFFERENT things look sexy on a man than on a woman.

That's what we've been trying to tell you. You're taking "the sexes are equal" as though it means "the sexes are the same" and that's just scientifically untrue on many different levels, including psychological and sexual behavior and stimulus response.

@umbrascitor
Saying that my request to sexualize the men is the same as requesting men to be paid just as little as women is ridiculous. My request would strictly affect fictional characters. The money thing is an actually serious issue affecting real people.

Anyway, one thing I didn't specify about the female characters is that I'm okay with them wearing "serious" outfits for their primary designs (hell I loved Ashrah's primary outfit, though I admit I did find her sexy in it), but I don't want them to lose the sexualized ones. And I know people are saying that women's sexual tastes are different from men's, but as far as I'm concerned, that's mostly social conditioning. I do not intend to argue this further though, so let's just agree to disagree.

Back to the "serious" design idea for women, as I've said, I'm fine with it. Sonya can be dressed like an actual soldier, so long as skimpy designs like her MK3 one are included as alts. Alts should provide developers the opportunity to get loose a bit. Speaking of Sonya's unrealistic designs, Jax's designs have also always been unrealistic too, for a soldier, but there are seemingly less complaints about them. I just hope people aren't singling out Sonya and giving Jax a pass.

To conclude, you know a "serious" outfit I wouldn't mind for Sonya? Her MK:SM design (and yes, I meant Shaolin Monks, not Special Forces). She really was wasted in that game.

I just want to clear up one of the blurry definitions in this conversation; and that is the difference between SEXY and OVER-SEXUALISED.

Johnny in the tux is sexy in a conventional pretty-boy kind of way, which suits the character's background as an actor.
Kano with the open shirt & hairy chest is sexy in a motorbike-riding bad boy way, which again suits him.
Sonya, Kitana, Jade and Mileena are over-sexualised in their costumes. What's wrong with looking the way they do? Nothing if they were simply there to incite the guys into sleeping with them in exchange for cash -- NOT befitting a Liutenant or royal assassins with "impossiboobs" (boobs that stay within the confines of strategically-placed dental floss)

We know that MK is NOT meant to be overly serious, but oversexualising any character who doesn't need it or isn't suited to it by character traits is just plain ridiculous. It's a fantasy based figher - it's not meant to be a fashion show.


Oh, and Kintaro was fugly in MK2. As he was MEANT to be. The fuzzy wuzzy cute look only serves to undermine his former badassery.

@umbrascitor
I forgot to add that I agree with you about Jade's victory pose in the last game, along with Kitana's. I love their outfits, but I don't want to see them act like they're intentionally trying to please the straight male gamers. As far as sexiness for both genders goes, it should be mostly aesthetic, but not intentionally behavioral, unless it's in their character, like Mileena, or just comical, like Sheeva. I wouldn't say Kitana and Jade were even acting like strippers and prostitutes in their victory poses, since those would actually ask for money in return (unless they were forced into it, but that's another matter entirely). They just acted in a submissive manner.

@picklemendip
Kintaro was not ugly in MK2. Neither was Baraka, really. They looked scary, but not because they were ugly, at least in my opinion. And I'm really getting tired of this idea that ugliness equals badassness. There's also this stereotype of ugly people being smarter. Jeez, overcompensate much?

I really don't see how Kintaro's MK9 design wasn't scary. Do you think actual tigers are uglier than Kintaro, thus scarier? Because to me, Kintaro's MK9 face doesn't look much different from a tiger's. I hope you're not underestimating just how dangerous tigers are. Dismissing Kintaro's scariness over his look is akin to that, as far as I'm concerned.

It seems many people are quite shallow when it comes to prettiness and cuteness. In that they assume pretty/cute people cannot be anything but pretty and/or cute.