My personal preference for the treatment of Boss characters is that they not be playable too...but Shang Tsung isn't that powerful. We've been allowed to use him before (without weakening him the way Kahn has been weakened in Deception/Armageddon. In fact, MK2 and 3 Shang are supposed to be MORE powerful than MK1 Shang) so why not make him available for use as a secret bonus now?
The boss mechanics of MK1 are no different from the way it was in MK4 and Deadly Alliance, where the sub-boss is big and intimidating, but the main boss is not. The only difference is that in MK4 and Deadly Alliance, the bosses were playable. (Albeit, Shinnok deserved better. A former Elder God and ruler of Hell should be more powerful than Kahn, not less.)
I feel the way to get the most entertainment and creativity out of revisiting a game we've all played before is to allow the player the option to control characters they couldn't control the first time around, meaning Reptile and especially Tsung's Old Man form for the first time ever, so we can see his own motivations and his own storyline and you can beat the game with him and see a "What if the villain won?" ending.

It would be interesting to see Shang's ending. I wonder whether it would involve betraying Kahn after winning Earthrealm and becoming the ruler of Earthrealm and all the other realms Shao Kahn conquered.

Ed boon talks about how he and his team have considered this in the latest OXM podcast. It's quite interesting.

I like the idea of showing a character's backstory during cut-scenes, but I'd keep it short and show only what needed to be shown. I really think that the main focus should stay on the island and the tournament and any Konquest mode/Story mode should take place on the island.

I always pictured the MK1 tournament spanning a few days and during that time the Kombatants would have plenty of time to roam free between matches. Some ideas of what you could see and what they could do:

* You could see other matches in progress with no-name NPCs. It would help convey the idea that there were more fighters invited to this tournament than just the playable ones.

* Sub-Zero could still try to carry out his mission of assassinating Shang Tsung. He fails (perhaps stopped by Shang's bodyguard, Reptile???).

* Sonya and her team infiltrate the island in pursuit of Kano. After they're captured, she could visit her imprisoned team and maybe even try to break them out. It'd be nice to see who all these people were that she was fighting for.

* Kano searches for the gold that he heard so much about. Maybe his story ends when he tries to steal something from Shang Tsung and that's why he's seen chained up in MK2. Hehe.

But yeah, you get the idea. There's plenty of material to flesh out the characters and fill in their backstory without leaving the island. The official comic book may have gone into these elements somewhat, but that thing is rare and going on 18 years old. I think it's okay if the events that took place on the island were revisited and elaborated on. I'm just talking about any side games like a Story Mode or Konquest mode. Of course the intros, cut-scenes and endings will get into events leading up to their arrival on the island and whatnot.

As for a story mode for Shang Tsung; I think it's a great idea. His final fight in story mode would be against Liu Kang, naturally. I wouldn't want to see Shao Kahn in his ending though. I really feel that the focus should be kept squarely on MK1 and what it was back in 1991. Back when all we had was MK1 and no one knew about Outworld or Kahn or any of that.

Abour Reptile: I think it's a great idea to make him the super-fast badass of destruction when you fight against him, but as a playable character he should be more balanced. I wouldn't mind letting him keep both Sub-Zero's and Scorpion's moves. I mean, green ice and green fire breath! And he makes green skeletons!
If you really wanted to turn up the heat, have him use Scorp's, Subz', and his own moves. Make him just crazy insane. Make him very hard to beat.

Hey, I got an idea! Get rid of Kano's fake Aussie accent! I really liked James Goddard as Kano in the movie, but they do a terrible Aussie Kano in the games.

His name is Trevor Goddard. Where'd you get James from?

Also, I think you're a little obsessed with the island. The place has interesting architecture and being allowed to roam it would be fun, but you can't make the WHOLE story mode take place there, nothing actually HAPPENED there except the tournament!

Get rid of the accent? Are you kidding me? And I have to agree with Razor on this one. Having one entire place to base the tournament on isn't thrilling, there should be other places involved in the story rather than the Island. Probably feature places such as where Sonya was at during the time, Johnny Cage, Sub-Zero... just having one spot and only one spot focused in the story is boring.

Trevor Goddard, that's right. Got it mixed up somehow. Alright then, if they're going to keep the accent, at least they could hire a decent voice actor. And yeah, I like the island. :P

Are you kidding? Goddard had a good Austrailian accent for being a British actor.

If for some reason they were to make another MK movie with Kano in it, he should be Kano... though sadly it won't for two reasons:

1. There won't be another movie.
2. He's dead.

But we're not talking about the movie here.

Well, I see your point. But I like to keep certain things exclusive. Playable bosses equate to that for me for the most part.

However, I am not inconsiderate of others. So I could see allowing players access to those characters in a "trilogy-type" game. That way it serves as a sort of teaser, and it doesn't really jeopardize the allure // integrity of the character much. It's like, being able to touch the untouchable for a game. Then that way, you could add something the next game that greatens that allure more.

Builds them up instead of constantly opening them up to a much more intimate criticism from players.



Agreed, and I think that is a problem too. All bosses don't "hide" behind some other guy. Some bosses are as bold as the asshole in your high school gym class. Y'know?

I think some bosses should just have enough intelligence and power that no sub-boss is needed. Shinnok should have been that guy really. He's not gonna feel he needs protection from anything iMo. And he should know the rules enough to make him too tough to beat anyway. I feel they had the right idea with making him this sort of eccentric boss, I just think they executed him wrong.

He'd probably be the boss that opposed Shao Kahn the most in that, almost no physical contact was met in fighting him. It'd be like whu? How the fuck do you beat that?"

Something that maybe had you string together special moves instead of how we'd remember beating Shao Kahn....which was by being aggressive, and having to out smart the A.I.

So yea, I agree on that...and on Shinnok.



Well, you see this is something controversial to me. Because while I do like the idea of playing with the "old man Shang Tsung", and I think they should have given us this a long time ago as an alt or something, I don't like the idea of having the boss of the current game....be playable.

I also am a fan of "alternate perspective scenarios"....a perspective change that lets us look into "a win for the bad guys", or a twist, like that "Aggressive Earth" one I had that lets the good guys carry on in an unconventional fashion. BUT

I think it really demeans and deteriorates the value of the "big bad" if they let us have access to him like that. There's nothing to fear after having exposure to the way the big evil moves and thinks. I mean come on, in all kinds of media throughout history, we're never really allowed to have ready access to the big bad guy. Having them be playable in the same game? It infers all kinds of things that wouldn't otherwise be...figure-out-a-ble.


When you play with a character, you can gather a sense of that characters strengths and weaknesses for one. And that's enough of a deterrent for me already. That....stuff is supposed to remain shrouded in the mystique of the characters position in the story, and the game. I don't want access to that exposure readily available man.. Also, having them accessible gives them a style in gameplay. And a style in gameplay, can sorta point to a distinct type of player. So, considering that bosses are supposed to be ubber-powerful or whatever. The player who's style matches up with that character is almost obligated to play with them by preference alone.....and therefor consequently exposing me to the strengths, weaknesses, and otherwise of that playable boss whether I wanted him//her to or not.

Point is, the bosses are generally the characters that I do not want to "get to know", like that. Don't get me wrong, I do like to know alot about the bosses, but controllable gameplay isn't really one of those things. They're supposed to seem impossible. I'm supposed to almost hate having to beat them in order to get what I want from the win. You see?

How is that possible when if I don't understand how to beat something they're doing, I can just go pick them, take them in the practice mode, and face off with the A.I. until I can beat the character consistently? I mean, shouldn't the notion of "easily beating the boss" be kinda reserved for these innate "high level players"?

It's a pretty brainless approach when we consider replay value #1, and #2, the goal shifts from beating the boss, to beat the game 1000 times just to get all the endings. Nothing to play up to at that point.

idk

I can see Reptile being playable though. However I think a remake would require them to return him to this sort of..extremely cool secret character. Both in how anonymous and infamous he was, and in how fantastic it should be for us to find him in the first place. The "how".



I hear what you're saying too. And I mean, I think there absolutely is enough to get the job done just on the island. But, I like to travel (heh) , and I think that giving us totally different environments to traverse through would give a broader appeal to the character specifics.

In a lot of rap music, a common denominator is a saying; "I'm a a product of my environment.",.......and so, I don't think just going though events on the island would do the character specifics enough justice.

I'd love to see Hanzo interact with Takeda, big and little brother Sub-Zero before any death occured, Sonya before training, Raiden go through the thing with the necromancers, or even something surrounding demise of the Elder Kung Lao in real time....what kinds of things did Kano do to become the leader of the Black Dragon? Maybe how pretentious Johnny Cage is....um...Liu Kangs first fireball. (he probably faints or something cheesy, lol)

That sort of thing. But again, I see what you're saying though.

Takeda and Hanzo Hasashi weren't alive at the same time. Takeda created ninjitsu hundreds of years ago and died from poisoned tea.

It was never stated whose bones Quan Chi turns over in Mythologies. They could have been Takeda's from his dug up grave after the Shirai Ryu were killed or it could have been the bones of their CURRENT grandmaster.

Either way, the game's backstory made it clear that Takeda died long ago, well before Quan Chi got involved.

I feel like I've explained this to someone before, but maybe you weren't in that topic.

Come again? Why am I under the impression that Hanzo and Takeda co-existed at some point?

As I understand it, Hanzo left with Takeda when he left the Lin Kuei. They both became rivals of the Lin Kuei because of betraying the Lin Kuei, and creating the rest of the Shirai Ryu out of mockery (although I do recognize that Takeda is the official creator and grandmaster of the Shirai Ryu).

The Shirai Ryu were killed off eventually, as well as Takeda (by Quan Chi) and Hanzo (by the elder brother Sub-Zero). Then dead Hanzo (Scorpion) kills Sub-Zero and the younger Sub-Zero comes into play, all the way up to current.

I really thought that Takeda was something like a sensei to Hanzo.

Tell me what I got wrong and I would like the sources please. I'm not a Scorpion fan so I can accept being wrong on that.

And no, I was not a part of whatever that other conversation was. At least I don't think...hm.

I'm not sure where you got your idea from but here's the appropriate chapter, taken from the official MK Mythologies backstory, which can still be found on the archived version of the game's old website here, as well as in the instruction manual that came with the game. I've underlined the important parts.


It is of course after this that the game takes place and the player, as Sub-Zero, can murder Hanzo himself (via Spine Rip fatality) and then see with his own eyes Quan Chi paying for the map by presenting a sack full of bones to the Lin Kuei as proof that he slaughtered the Shirai Ryu. That cut scene's somewhere on Youtube if you've never seen it before.

*nods* o-kay. lol

I was way off on that one.

Okay, a few things. You completely minunderstood what I was saying.

1. Trevor Goddard was great as Kano in the movie. No argument there.

2. I know he's dead.

3. I wasn't talking about Goddard when I mentioned the bad aussie accent. His accent's just fine. I meant Kano in the games has a bad aussie accent.

*EDIT* And I don't know how to quote.

fixed.

Yay! Thanks.

Well, you pretty much just supported my point. Why should I care about Jarek or Kira when they aren't in the same league as a Sonya or even a Johnny Cage. Also, that being said, Sonya must be getting way past her prime. Remakes would at least get us back to her glory days.

As for what characters would be playable -- I'd go with the original cast. Reptile, Ermac and Chameleon would all be unlockable (although the later two would be harder to find, challenge and defeat). Shang Tsung should be playable, I agree, but not something as simple as buying him in a Krypt. Make him the ultimate reward in the game.

One idea I had, is that the story explaining how the characters to to the tournament could all explore different genres. For example, Sonya and Kano could engage in a Manhunt-esque game of cat and mouse. Kano's rise in the Black Dragon could be explained in a few levels of slicing some son-of-a-bitch's throat. Sonya hunting for Daniel Blade and having to go special ops and break a Black Dragon foot soldier's neck could be very cool.

Both Sub-Zero and Scorpion could use a Ninja Gaiden-like engine, with Sub-Zero looking for the Amulet and then being ordered to compete in the tournament, and Scorpion discovering his spectre powers, and fighting off Oni such as Drahmin and Moloch.

Johnny Cage's story could be fleshed out in the training mode by selecting him. You could learn about what he's been taught as a martial artist, and how he uncovered his chi. Or, seeing as he seems like a sporting fighter, you could have a different engine created and have a few mixed-martial arts sparring sessions with a character (someone based off the Art Lean character in the movie could be sort of cool). It'd be a deeper and more precise grappling system in that section of the game.

But suggesting this, I'm wondering why the MK Team doesn't create a game sort of along the lines of Shaolin Monks that is sort of canon, but also more like Deception's Konquest. You choose a character like Reptile, and play through his canon story until he gets to the end and becomes Onaga, for example.

Yes, Jarek is a loser and no one should care about him.

But Kira being too young THEN says nothing about her prowess NOW.

I dont even think they would need to call in the real actors anymore. They could use an engine superior to the UT3 engine which is honestly dated now. I'm talking DirectX 10 Crysis-type graphics and beyond that even. I mean for them to re-animate the characters from MK1 or MK2 just how they were with more lifelike movement. I don't even think they could animate what I envision. I mean top notch animations and photo realistic visuals to bring back that realism that MK was known for. I wouldn't mind seeing Reptile as the only straight forward playable secret character and Smoke/Jade available in MK2. But thats it, nothing too extreme for adding characters. Focus on the fighting and the presentation. We already know what the gist of the game would be.

I just doubt the MK Team could achieve this without a new member to do animations and without Tobias' input on the overall vision.

I think it would be really cool to create an adventure game that plays like a fighter that spans the duration of the Mortal Kombat Trilogy saga.

The game could start out with the seven original Mortal Kombat characters from the first tournament and you can choose to play as either one of those seven, following each of their own individual plot lines on Shang Tsung's island. What would be really cool is if you can incorporate RPG elements to each of the fighters. Let's say through each battle a character can earn a certain amount of points that add to the effectiveness of your special moves, stamina, and health. As the game progresses your selected character will get stronger, but so will your enemies.

What is up with people wanting a classic fighting game to turn into another genre? It makes me so sick.

Because Shaolin Monks was pretty damn fun.

Some people want to see their favorite characters and story in an adventure or RPG game because it would be a deeper experience. Deal with it or go be sick somewhere the hell else.

RazorsEdge701 said "If I were working at Midway, a remake of MK1 with up to date 3D graphics and gameplay and the story and roster fully fleshed out to include all of what we know now, would be my dream project."

I completely 100% agree with this. That could allow the mk team as stated above to integrate all of the stories and bios that we know now. It could be used to clear up inconsistencies and integrate the best aspects from the movies, comics, and the television series into the official mk series bible.

Obviously a remake of mk2,3, and 4 would have to follow or some combination of the the 3. How many mk fans would have bought this over mk vs dc if given the choice? I would wager something like 90%.