People did notice and complain. People have been complaining about the body types of characters since MKvsDCU with giant Sonya.

I just hope you guys do understand how hard it is to actually model a CGI character.



Modeling this was a fucking bitch to begin with, and I've been told, modeling humans is much harder than designing some wee little space station. You guys have to take in to what designers can do and can't do. I think sometimes it's unfair to say, "Oh every character needs to look different because it'll be more realistic," and expect beautiful results. Not every company designs their characters the same way. I for one, think the latest game was as realistic as they got before it turns into a Death Cargo thing. (And we all know about that game.)

Designing faces, however, I am not happy with the male-looking features a lot of these females have. Which, I will go back to my other post. If they have something such as models coming in for facial features like what they did for MGS4, then hey we got our feminine look!

But seriously though, animation isn't easy, and sometimes I get so aggravated seeing people complain a lot about humans needing to look more human. It's not that easy as you think it is. Taking apart a cube is much harder than it looks.

Take my word on it.

No one's saying it's easy, but we do know from other games that it's possible to make pretty realistic and good looking human features and bodies in current gen, particularly with the Unreal engine which the past couple MK games have been built in.

Also, over on TRMK's message board, there's a group of fans working on an HD remake of Mortal Kombat 1, using the same 3D modelling software like ZBrush that the professionals use to create 3D models that look like high-rez versions of the original MK1 sprites, and so far they've done a great job creating models that actually look like nearly photorealistic versions of the characters/actors who were in the original game such as Ho Sung Pak and Carlos Pesina.

I've ALWAYS said, shouldn't people who are getting paid for their work be expected to put out better work than people who do it as a hobby instead of a career?
I realize pros have deadlines, but...well...here's a photoshop edit by a TRMK user named uKER. Look how simple something like a better knowledge of anatomy could have improved the bodies in MK9:

I'm not saying this by being a bitch, but someone who's trying to get into the same field as these guys and knows a bit due to learning and being taught by professionals:



Except, majority of the users here think it is easy, when they don't have the slightest clue how Maya or other CGI programs work. It showed heavily during 2011's release. There are things that I will agree, yes, some things could have looked cleaner. But a lot of you think that because they're professionals, they still can't make mistakes. And because their stuff doesn't look good compared to people who don't use deadlines, you say they shouldn't get paid? That's a completely ignorant thing to say.

I go to a private art school where my professors worked on academy award winning stuff, former Midway employees, Blizzard employees, Naughty Dog, etc.. They can simply tell you how it is in the work force and none of you, not even me, can sit here and say, "Oh, you just go in for 18 hours, work on your shit and be done." Yeah, okay, go model something and tell me how easy it is. It isn't, and I have every right to say that because 15 weeks of designing one space station that isn't even done yet still isn't enough time for me to put in all the necessary stuff I want in there.

Professionals make mistakes. We wouldn't have one of the Toy Story movies here today had it not been backed up by someone through a small little USB drive because everything got deleted. Seriously, get your mind out of the gutter in thinking people who are declared as "professionals" can't make mistakes. To me, I thought the game looked great. If it bothers you, oh well, we all can't please everyone's expectations, and I wish some of you guys could just get over somethings. My only thing is to make the women's faces a bit more feminine. That's all for me.

So yeah, shit.

As USUAL, IceBaby blows another discussion waaaaaaaaaaaay out of proportion.

It is VERY easy to make characters models different from one another. That is a completely different statement than saying it's very easy to model characters (who the fuck even said that anyway?). Not every character has to be the huge, muscular bodybuilding type. Toning down muscle size and definition, height, weight, etc. is not the rocket science of 3D modeling.

To ask developers that every single character is designed individually and different from the ground up is a bit crazy. But that's not what we're asking for. The fact that many game developers use templates makes it even easier (so they're not reinventing the wheel). Seeing as how NRS loves recycling things, all they had to do is tweak what they already created in MKvsDC.

With the right references, body modeling SHOULD be easy for a "professional" - if it's so damn difficult then they can hardly be considered a professional. Faces, yes, are extremely difficult compared to bodies.

Now... just because something is difficult doesn't mean it shouldn't be achieved. If other games can pull it off, NRS has no excuse. Fire the people who can't perform to standards and replace them with ones who can. It's a fucking business after all. No hard feelings.

Making a mistake is not the same as doing a poor job. To me, a mistake is more of an anomaly in the model itself, compared to the overall quality of the design being sub-par. We're just asking for a vast improvement as they go into the next gen consoles. We want them to steer toward more realism and away from the generic cartoony look.

Mistakes, by the way, should be caught by QC people or the next higher up in the chain of command who reviews their work; at the very least, their peers. So, while professionals are aloud to make mistakes, most (obviously not all) of them should have been fixed and not included in final releases. Seeing as how "making mistakes" is a poor choice of words to describe this topic at hand, I will go no further.

I have to agree with RazorsEdge. If fans can do it better as their weekend/downtime hobby, people who who make a career out of it are expected to be top notch. Especially if they went to school for this kind of shit...

We all know you're easily pleased, Icebaby. You always say "I liked it the way it is, you guys should complain less" or something similar whenever you post in a thread where people are critiquing the art or story.
Personally, I believe strongly in the concept of Meritocracy. The person who does the best possible work should be the one getting rewarded for that work with employment and money. Someone who does something as a JOB, where MONEY is being exhanged for their work, should never be producing a worse product than people who do it for free, because it means the wrong person has that job and the guy who's doing it for free isn't being fairly rewarded for his superior skill and the time he put into it.

As usual, you misspell my username. And since we're talking about graphics and such, how in the holy mother of fuck am I taking this out of proportion? I'm clearly talking about the same thing you're complaining about, how to make something realistic. Programs that they use are the same programs I use at school. So no, I'm not taking things out of proportion. Adding things to this discussion, yeah, taking things out of proportion, please.



Or maybe that's just their style. Ever thought about that? Is it really that bad? Is it really that bad to recycle stuff if that's how they work? Call it lazy, call it stupid, but if it's their style then suck up and accept that's how they work.



Well no duh.



Once again, no duh.


I'm going to direct you to the very last paragraph that I have to write, that is if you want to read and it's not that long to you. Or even want to.




Not every company needs to work the same way as others. Some might think Rockstar has some of the most brilliant stuff, I think it's still too cartoony for me. Some might agree, others won't. But hey, it's different material being brought to us. Why should Netherealm Studios need to start acting like a different company when they're fine (in my opinion) right now? This is a huge improvement from MKvsDCU, despite if some things are recycled. Like I said, if that's how they work, that's how they work. Someone might introduce a change in the workfield that could work or not, but if this is how they work, why do we need to bitch about it? Besides, why does this need to be so realistic it's almost human? Does it really need to be THAT realistic?

To you guys, yeah, to others no... But I'm just asking, does it really need to be that realistic?



You say that me liking the story and the art in this game is a bad thing, in which I have to say to you "difference of opinions, mate." Just because you disliked quite a lot of shit from this game doesn't mean that you need to hate upon those that do. I'm sorry this game disappointed you in some aspects, but to those that did enjoy this game doesn't need to be mocked or criticized for it. And yeah, I wouldn't mind if we had some people complain less. With all the amount of bitching and complaining that fled into this forum, I'm surprised with how much praised it got seeing how during pre-production. Jeeze, get over me liking what you don't.



No offense, but that's really stupid to say. Like in the singing world, there's singers that have so much talent that aren't getting the fame and fortune as much as those who are talentless that are famous and getting the fortune. It's how to apply yourself to the world and if you meet the criteria. The art field is by far, the hardest... HARDEST field to get into because it's how you apply yourself and how much you want it. You want that job as a character modeler then show it. Obviously, the people that are working in Netherrealm Studios showed that they wanted it by doing what they had to do. And as of right now, in their job listings, they're not looking to rehire their entire modeling department. It's how to apply yourself, and I get told that by the professionals every day.

OOOhh my gawwwd, I put a capital B instead of a lowercase b. Some one kill me! BTW that's not considered a misspelling........ genius.

I didn't say you liking MK9 is a bad thing, I just said we have higher standards.

What IS a bad thing is the way you keep doing the same thing over and over and over and it doesn't add anything constructive to the conversations when you do it.
You keep coming into threads about the flaws and them complaining about the fact that we're complaining, and you do it the same way, over and over again. You don't realize how pointless and repetitive that is?

You could just ACCEPT the fact that a lot of people on this board's standards are higher than yours instead of coming into threads, complaining against the whole reason the thread was made, and repeating yourself all the time.



My entire argument is that they're not applying themselves as hard as they could be and they're either not as talented or not working as hard as some unpaid hobbyists are. Therefore, they don't DESERVE the job.

If a person can't do their job as well as someone else can, and that someone else is available, then they should be replaced by the better person. The money should go to the people who do the BEST work. That's a pretty simple, logical concept.

NOOOOOOOO SHIT?!



FYI ... "Blowing things out of proportion" is NOT the same thing as saying "talking about a different topic."



If it's their style then yes, it really is that bad. Hence why we want them to change their style back to a realistic vibe. Ever thought about that?




Are you seriously asking that question in a thread titled "Realistic graphics this time! This is Mortal Kombat!" and where people have referenced the realistic look of the 2D game sprites as a good thing that separated it from other games?

See? This is exactly what I'm talking about, she always has to argue against the whole POINT of the thread.
If you don't like the subject of a thread, you don't HAVE to post in that thread!

May I add that after Armageddon, Boon promised us a "Dark and Gritty" Mortal Kombat?

Oh look, a quote:

At last year's Midway Gamers Day, Mortal Kombat co-creator and series overlord Ed Boon talked up the then-unnamed eighth entry in the franchise. Boon described Mortal Kombat 8 at the time as "very dark, serious" and "gritty" take on the series, a back to basics reboot that was free of "vibrant, saturated colors." It was said to be heavily inspired by the look of Gears of War.

Almost 6 years later and I'm still waiting...
...seeing as how they're gonna try and rehash MK4 in this next game, I will probably have to wait another 6 fucking years.

Jesus Christ, grow up. It was a joke.



Oh, so someone who likes something that you don't, they don't have the same standard as you? Wow, you're pathetic.



So because I like stuff that others don't, I shouldn't be allowed to go into a discussion that interests me? Then what the hell is the point of this forum then? If I really annoy you, here's a tip that even Blacksiabot can agree on: Ignore it and move on. It's that simple.



How is it pointless to add to a discussion? If you really find what I have to say that annoying, then just stop replying to what I have to say. No one is forcing you to reply to what I had to say, you could have just easily scroll down and ignore that one giant post. But instead, you replied, so this is what you get. I can't tell you how many times we get into these fucking arguments, Razor. This is repetitive and pointless. Stop replying to me if this is getting to you.



I'm not accepting anything you have to say because you don't know what my standards are, even if it might seem obvious to you because I'm so "repetitive." Yeah, you certainly know me quite all right. I was not against anyone who wanted realistic graphics, had you actually read what I wrote, which I'm starting to think now that you didn't, I just simply said it's not that easy as one think it is to model. You guys took what I said out of proportion when all I stated was that "hey, get to know the programs these guys use, it's not that simple to make stuff you think is a peach"



Then Netherrealm Studios hired a bunch of people that aren't that hardworking/talented. They're not replacing their staff, so it means they enjoy talentless, non-hardworking employees by what you state.



Really? Really? I had no clue, thanks for clearing that up for me



No, I never once thought differently.../sarcasm.



Yeah I did, because I want to know why realistic graphics means more than having the graphics look now. All you guys are stating is how to change the models and such. But why? Why don't you want the graphics that they have now? If they were to, let's say, have the digitialized human look for their next game, would you be satisfied that they went back to their original roots? Or, would you want it to go back to what they've been for the last few years.

That was mainly the point of that question, I'll admit, I should have elaborated a bit more on that and I apologize.



And you didn't need to respond to my second post so really, stop your crying.

When a person has EVIDENCE that a story has serious problems, or a character model has incorrect anatomy, or the skin texture doesn't look like skin, and you come in and go "I liked it anyway", that PROVES your standards are lower than everybody else's in the discussion.

Duh.



But you're NOT adding to the discussion when you go "I liked it, you guys shouldn't complain so much", you're telling us not to HAVE the discussion. If the complaints are the POINT of the thread, and you are telling people to stop complaining and just learn to like stuff as easily as you do, then you are actively opposing the fact that the thread exists!

That's the whole problem.

Please read through every single post in this thread, thoroughly.



No. Not sure why you're asking if we'd be satisfied with graphic techniques from the 90s if we're bitching about the graphics we were given in the 2000s.

Ugh, I'm not splitting up these paragraphs...



1.) I never once stated in this thread that I liked it in the first two posts before you started confronting me. My first post was that if they wanted to make the females have more of a feminine feature in their faces, they should have modelers come in and have their faces be slapped into the characters. The second paragraph has me just explaining to a lot of you that animating and modeling isn't as easy as you all think it is, so I hoped that would have you guys take that into account. Unfortunately, you took it one step further and protest and shit. I have standards that I would have liked to see but didn't such as the hair being better animated, but knowing how hard it is to animate hair, I knew they couldn't master it. But it would have been a wee bit better to see the hair flow a bit more naturally than what they did, or have the characters wear some other hair style to ignore.

2.) I did so add to the discussion, check the front page. One measly little post that had some people agree. All I did with the second time was just show you it's not that easy to model, you took that way out of control and say "no one said this blah blah blah." Please, just stop. You're now taking this issue off-topic, I was trying to shove other stuff in here to show you guys, coming from a person that is trying to get into this field, that hey, it's not that easy to say all this and expect these guys to do what you want them to do. Is it really that much of a bad thing that I wrote that or are you just overreacting that someone who has a bit more knowledge of this stuff is showing the reality of animation?

This wasn't you?

The computer says it was you, but if it's mistaken and you didn't post this, then I apologize.

1.) I did, especially yours when you went into much detail.

2.) *Sighs* I brought it up because it's more realistic looking than Deadly Alliance-Armageddon failure of "realism." Then again, the early 2000s, in my opinion, never really showed any marvelous realistic look to their games, including my favorite series, Metal Gear Solid.

Sad to bring this game up, but Death Cargo, that goofy fighting game that caused a bit of a stir I think last year in here... They're using digitialized graphics with their characters along with CGI background/foreground. Would that look be more satisfied, it's realistic enough to meet despite that I'm sure you guys would probably prefer it being all animated rather than it including digitialized characters?

I'm just bringing this up because if you want realistic, couldn't this be what you're looking for rather than going through all the mess that you're all wanting to change?



Yeah, after you went into detail saying that the company has poor modelers compared to a bunch of people that are designing a game on their spare time. But it's not what I originally stated in my first two posts that actually WAS directed to the topic. It was directed at your nonstop complaining that Netherrealm Studios' modelers are talentless job takers.

So you did say that you like the game's graphics and we shouldn't complain...in a thread devoted to complaining that MK9's graphics weren't as photorealistic looking as we would like?

And the reason you said that is just because I pointed out some MK fans who are making 3D models that look more photorealistic than the ones in MK9?

I just want that to be clear.

Make the women's faces more feminine and less manly and I'll be happy. The only characters that should look manly are the men and inhuman monsters that populate the series.

It was more so directed to you and only you. I threw in "you guys" as a throw off because I wasn't really hoping on getting into a giant, off-topic argument with you. Sadly, it didn't work, and I should have known better to just ignore your posts but... darn.

I hate to be "that guy", but I've seen this kinda thing happen quite a bit over the years, not just here, but in general. If people who get into long drawn out arguments and know they'll never change the other's opinion, KEEP getting into long drawn out arguments and know they'll never change the other's opinion......Then why do they still do it? What is it, boredom?

New members could contribute and bring something new? Possibly boredom... The same topics could keep popping up? I think it's more so the last one out of anything.

There was a thread over at neogaf about bad attempts at attractive character Designs in games...Mortal Kombat and Injustice were brought up alot...

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=707841

It isn't just an opinion shared here, I think that generally gamers find Netherealm's games have wonky character modelling, even beyond their attractiveness...That Liu Kang comparaison Razor posted says it all...

I think it has been getting better If I look back at earlier 3D games, but I know they can step it up much more for next gen, I want MK10 to look incredible!

Lol icebaby really takes her time in her replies but her YouTube reaction videos are bland lol :)