It's a dark times, when good games attract borderline foolish audience.


Indeed.
He is a typical self-appointed elite fanatic, who believes that for some reason had created his own perfetc MK in his head and anything else is simply "bad" for one (fictional) reason or the other. Conceptually he is not different from Razor. They've just built different "ideal MK"s in their heads and clashing over inane fantasies, which quite hilarious, when you think about it.
I've seen such people time and time again and it's really sad.

How many times am I going to respond, I wonder...


The flaw in MK's cosmogony is based on two points:

1. game design-wise: any realm and any inhabitant should proabbly be allowed to partake in the events of MK. This means that all creatures of the realms must be susceptible to physical harm, and thus death.

2.cosmologically the Netherrealm is just another realm with inconsistent laws. Usually the afterlife dimension in any myth is a consequent space where the dead go. These are rarely concrete physical locations (save Greek mythology for example).

The problem arises by dying. In MK, if you are good you get some sort of afterlife. If evil, you get sent to the NR. Which is like me journeying from town A to town B.

HOWEVER, while you are technically dead, you still function as normal it seems. And an Oni, which in MK is a natural inhabitant of the land of the dead is technically already dead.

The logical solution is that all-inclusively death is not final in MK, as once dead and in the NR, you cannot leave, save for exceptions (Shinnok's intervention, aka Mileena and Noob in MKT). There is little to no backthought for the consequences. it seems once you are dead, you just bide your time in the NR until you come across a chance, by which you somehow get a new body. if you are a sorcerer, you have free-roaming. And fuck knows what happens to Oni, who are also susceptible to death as shown in Shaolin Monks.

I am not familiar with Mythologies if it gives any more explanation, but that game was also a trainwreck.

mmm well said Chrome.

I will add that Moloch as an Oni is a demon, a denizen of the NR. Demon's would have different rules pertaining to "life" since they exist in bodily form in the NR. While the dead that amass there are bodiless unless given (like you say) a means of exit; whether by sorcerery or some other means.

I would assume: the same rule applies to Oni as it does anyone else (including banished gods: Shinnok) Moloch who once had an animated body capable of passing realms is now bodyless and stuck in the NR until some powerful being sees fit to extract him from there.

Technically, dead souls do take on a physical form while they're in the Netherealm, they're not ghosts. Souls are only ghostly when they're in non-afterlife realms.

That's why in Mythologies, Sub-Zero can fight Scorpion in the prison, or why in MK9, the "zombies" could punch Raiden.

As for how the rules apply to demons, when Sareena was killed at the end of Mythologies, what happened is that she lost her human-looking form, which was a disguise Quan Chi had transformed her into, and was reborn in her normal demonic form in another part of the Netherealm, where she was trapped and tortured for years as punishment for betraying Shinnok, until she escaped during Deadly Alliance.

The fact of the matter is, Moloch being a demon means that if Quan Chi cuts off his head...either he's not even dead, he's just a head and a body in two separate pieces...or it means that there's a reincarnated Moloch running around Hell while Quan walks around using the first one's head as a voodoo prop.

@Chrome

I know what you mean. I'm familiar with both Shaolin Monks and Mythologies and I think the way they envisioned the afterlife was a really cool concept. I did fall in love with the MK plotline and universe as long as it was coherent. Basically, in the MK Universe, you still have a body can still feel pain if you end up in the Netherealm where demons, oni and other nasty creatures want to do all kinds of bad stuff to you (feast upon you- as seen in Deception, enslave you- as done by the Brotherhood, basically abuse you in any way unless you're some kind of badass like Scorpion or Noob Saibot who nobody gets to rape).

The obvious deduction is that no matter what happens, your body keeps regenerating and you can suffer the same fate all over for hundreds or thousands of years. Now, I can understand that Moloch did have grandeur madness, challenged Quan Chi and got defeated. But this should have meant getting tied up and constantly tormented in Hell or brainwashed to serve the sorcerer.

Either way, why carry his head in the real world? Some will say that I don't yet know the entire plot so let's just wait and see, but I think the developing team is just loosing it. The bigger the universe got, the more plotholes started to add up. We did our best to understand the Cage death/resurrection in MK3, but when you played the konquest mode in Deception and visited the Netherealm where Scorpion was chasing Quan Chi right after MK4, then went to Seido where you stayed for 20 years in jail (even though the Deadly Alliance was formed immediately after QC escaped the Netherealm) and then went to Edenia to find the last kamidogu and get decorated by Queen Sindel truly made me realize that the game got too big for the developing team. And this was just of the "in your face" timeline errors. Without talking about horrendous plotlines like Nitara's mystical orb which makes worlds appear or the shokan curse which makes legs disappear.

tldr: MKX in 2015 will probably have chapters like MK9 or anyway, a similar gameplay story. MK9 didn't have many plotholes because we already knew the story from MK1-3. But now, all bets are off. We'll see more worlds than ever before in a story longer than in any MK game so far and it will be a miracle if the NRS team doesn't f*** this up, plotwise and consistency related.

Because, it looks impressive?

MK is not about story only. It is also about presentation and it doesn't matter, if some very minor things don't make sense in the big picture. So, Quan somehow killed Moloch and brought his head into real world. It's impressive? Impressive. What's not to like? It's part of the gameplay presentation. It is the same as when good guys make Fatality on their allies, because players want to do it.

And if you think about it, then Quan must kill Moloch every time, when he enters another realm. Or how many spare Moloch's heads Quan has in the Netherealm? It's doesn't make sense. It's just part of cool presentation. It doesn't mean that NRS "fucked up", "doesn't care about story" and similar bullshit. It's just for show.

It is a video game first and foremost. Video game famous for its presentation, amongst other things. And some things in it are for just for show, dammit. They shouldn't make sense, because it was never intended for them to make any sense in the first place. So for everyone who's somehow offended by Quan's intro or think that this is somehow demeans value of the story in it: go play something else. Fanbase will be better of wihtout people who can't into simple thinks like "story and gameplay and presentation segregation".


Wrong.

I personally feel that there is some form of "life" in that severed head. I mean I don't think his eyes would still be glowing if he was completely "dead".

The weird thing is, that if someone comes back from the Netherrealm because s/he possesses some amount of MK evil technically would still be alive for all acts and intentions. He might possess a different body, but still he is active.

So basically the afterlife in MK is: good - > chill in the heavens. Bad - > get sent to the lowest security prison where you can simply walk out.

Aside from being sent out by the Brohood of Shadow. Also, ressurection, ala Mileena. Wonder why they just do not go in there and haul back with people....




Well, the cosmogony of MK isn't exactly thought out to function aside as a background for the fights. Tidbits are conjoined, but as a whole is not logical.

There are two things imo that can happen:

1. it is a brief nod to MKDA. I am not keen on this one.

2. Quan Chi is actually in on the whole future thing. Remember, the invasion of Shinnok failed in the original timeline and Quan Chi was tackled by Scorpion. While he briefly hired Drahmin and Moloch to stop the ninja, he later found out that Shang Tsung briefly hired the two, because they were;'a. oni, b. pissed at Chi for leaving them there.

If Quan Chi is indeed in on the stuff it could be argued he deliberately eliminates future threats, and engineered things in MK9 to stabilize his role in MKX/ current quasi-MK4 timeline.

if so, then perhaps Shang being toast and Moloch (+ Drahmin) killed, removed is simply preemptive measures to powerplay.


Though Quan Chi was an idiot who indulged himself with a monologue over Scorpion and Sub-Zero. Then again, MK is only now moving away from Saturday Morning Cartoon villainy.

That sounds really cool! And I get your trust in the developers and laid-back attitude towards gaming in general. But if you're gonna do something, do it right.

@Chrome

why are you f****** a fish?

Thinking back on it, wasn't the whole reason for Quan Chi recruiting Drahmin and Moloch as bodyguards being the weakness of his sorcerer powers in the Netherrealm? I recall the story making a point that Scorpion grows stronger in the Netherrealm, whereas Quan Chi's powers weaken.

Presumably, Quan Chi is stronger outside the Netherrealm, and may have killed Moloch in another realm. Or perhaps he found some way of overcoming the draining effect the Netherrealm has on his powers and killed Moloch there?

That's assuming, of course, that he did it personally, which he may not have. He does have a guard of fallen warriors. But there are some implications about the power dynamics of the Netherrealm going on that seem to imply that Quan Chi has more power there than he used to; the fact that he controls the fallen characters to his own purposes, and not to Shinnok's or anyone else's, might indicate a leap in his power.

And what's wrong with that intro?
I said before and I say it again: it's just for show. Easter Egg. And that's it. No need to go deeper, no need to be offended and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

No need to take everyhting SO fucking seriously and create another stupid and inane reason to say "fuck you" to developers. They already dealing with a lot of ungrateful shitheads, who for whatever reason consider themselves "fans of the MK", on their necks and who ready to bitch, whine and moan on even the tiniest occasion.

technically it's a mammal.
@RedSumac I agree with you. The head is most likely being used for creating an atmosphere and image that quan is an extremely powerful, evil being.

I mean whenever I think of Moloch, I picture the massive beast from MK:DA. So when I see Quan Chi casually holding his severed head, my first thought is...."Well Damn"

Exactly.

And most of the people don't even who is this guy anyway.

Did you see me wine every time they f***** something up? No, I never said anything when other people complained about a character lacking moves, being hard to use, the game having glitches etc.

BUT, when I see a colossal mistake like killing a demon that cannot be killed, I have the right to say "you f***** up". Now, I don't want to scare them, I don't want to be rude, I really really don't want them to feel the pressure of me not buying their game (wtf?) , but otherwise we would always shut up and just take anything they're giving us and they'd never learn from the mistakes.

Why do people think Moloch cant die? Yeah I know when bad beings die they go to the NR, but that doesn't mean tearing his head off is impossible, especially if Moloch was not in the Netherrealm when it happened.

I believe it's important to take risks and move away from the original storyline, MK9 was the perfect set up for that. What I like about the MKteam is that they're willing to make controversial changes, like MK3 without Scorpion, Liu Kang's death, flesh out forgotten characters, etc, instead of using the same core roster in every title with some new additions (like SF), it allows the possibility for surprise and it gives the story more weight.

Characters from the old 3D era have a lot of potential for development, but new characters should always be welcomed, some will work, others not so much, but it keeps things fresh, look at Deception

I think is very easy, especially in these times, to succumb to fan-servicing in order to guarantee more sales. I'm glad NRS isn't.

Ack, the most difficult question posed.



I am a huge Ben Croshaw fan. You may know him as Yahtzee on the internet..

I haven't sad anything bad to you. Please, stop overreacting.
Reality of things is such, that if you decide not to buy game over such hilarious reason - it only paint you in a bad light.

I would have said, that there is no proff that Moloch can't be killed, but I just repeat what I have already said: it's just an easter egg. No need to take it so seriously or make a big issue about it.

Not being terribly familiar with Oni physiology or the "rules" of the Netherrealm, I'm not writing off the possibility that Moloch's head, though separated from his body, is very much alive.

What credible source has stated that Moloch is unable to be killed? Not trying to be a smart ass I just really want to know, as I must have missed that part.

Sucks, but I'm counted in amongst the fans who found his concept art far more interesting than the character's execution and role as big angry sub-boss.

Helluva sendoff, though. Cheers to ya, ya dead blue lug.
*Raises glass*

Indeed...

Could you imagine if he actually was a character in a modern era game, they could have his intro be the owl dropping his big ball and chain on the ground and him bursting out of the Earth to grab it and fight.

This makes me think about what it would be like to have Drahmin walk in eating flesh and looking manic and rabid without the mask of Kun-Lo on, then donning it and going from batshit insane to calm and focused to start the match.

Such potential, these two had.