Possible triple styles for existing characters.
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posted06/18/2014 07:11 PM (UTC)by
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Lokheit
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06/23/2010 03:26 PM (UTC)
I was reading that interview where Kitana is mentioned as the lead designer's favorite and I started to think that there are characters that doesn't have enough stuff to fill 3 different playstyles.

Sub-Zero signature is ice, and you can get imaginative with that and there are multiple ways to use it. Scorpion is half spectre, half ninja and even then they had to add moves he didn't have before (like summoning a buddy which was Noob's thing in the last game or throwing fireballs which wasn't one of his moves even if he could summon flames).

The new characters are being designed with the triple style already in mind as we've seen and are designed with backgrounds and abilities that allows for multiple styles.

But now there are characters that I think it's going to either be a bit hard to find 3 different styles or they will need new stuff to them. Even Scorpion needed new or borrowed moves.

Kitana for example, her personal trait is... the use of fans. That can give you some moves but there is a limited ways you could use a fan unlike for example Sub-Zero's ice powers or D'Vorah's ability to summon a variety of bugs.

Maybe (if she was introduced) she could have 1 style where she uses the fans as slicing weapons (mixing between strikes with the fans open for slash and closed for piercing moves), another one featuring the sonic waves move and her "butt strike" which used the fans to take impulse and another one with her pixie dust teleport and some ninja trick? It doesn't look so flashy to be honest, and you still need to keep some moves to be the generic powers (the fan throw and... I don't know what else they could keep as generic given how each style would be lacking moves already).

This could be a problem with some characters as there isn't much you can do with some things (for example, Jade could feature the razorang in one style and some sort of "jade force fields" style featuring the nitro kick and anti projectile in another one but she's lacking resources for a third style as the staff is too personal to be used in only 1 of them).

How do you imagine your favorite characters would fight if they were introducted in this new system, needing a couple of "generic" powers featured in all styles and then 3 styles containing a couple more, each related to a theme that makes sense? And how would you solve cases where a character doesn't have enough to cover 3 different themes with his known moves?
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Kitsune
06/15/2014 06:48 PM (UTC)
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Three possible variations of Master Bo Rai Cho:

- Jojutsu Master (weapon based style)

- Drunken Fist (including new projectiles and his classic monkey flips)

- Sumo (his belly bash here, the ground stomp, and lots of grappling and/or wrestling moves)
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Lokheit
06/15/2014 06:53 PM (UTC)
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Thracian_Tsar Wrote:
Three possible variations of Master Bo Rai Cho:

- Jojutsu Master (weapon based style)

- Drunken Fist (including new projectiles and his classic monkey flips)

- Sumo (his belly bash here, the ground stomp, and lots of grappling and/or wrestling moves)


And which moves would you keep as "generic"? I think the joke moves (vomit and farting) would be more apropiate as a whole style (so people that don't like the gross moves can avoid picking them), but I guess they could be the generic ones.
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Kitsune
06/15/2014 07:00 PM (UTC)
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I worte this for another thread:

Puke Puddle - it's a silly/gross move. Since it's a stunner move, it should be replaced with another of this type. For example, he can spill his liquor on the ground or all over his opponent, causing the other fighter to get dizzy from inhaling alcohol vapors.

Flip Flop - nothing silly about it.

Ground Stomp - again, nothing silly about it.

Belly Bash - it suits the character, but I guess some people may find it silly. So, it can be modified to be a head/shoulder attack a drunken master would do.

I can see his MKDA fatality as his Xray move. Kinda reminds me of Ermac's Xray in MK9. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7GtbnHYG9Q

Bo's second MKD fatality was great:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTcnbvCHhWE
It may return as such or a toned down version of it could be used as a new special move.
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Nathan
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06/15/2014 07:01 PM (UTC)
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This is actually really tough. Not a lot of characters had really big changes over the years. Sub-Zero and Scorpion are probably the ones who were experimented with the most, and got a number of additional moves. But like you said, even with Scorpion they had to give him new Moves, to fill the 3 Variations requirement.

And Cassie Cage is basically a mix of Sonya, Johnny, Stryker and Sektor. She's 4 characters in one. I couldn't think of 3 Variations for someone like Baraka, if my life depended on it.

This was much easier in the DLC characters thread. I could easily think of 3 Variations for Ash and the Predator. For most of the existing MK characters though, I'm drawing a complete blank.
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.
06/15/2014 07:28 PM (UTC)
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Bo' Rai Cho
Wine Taster - includes elegant attacks that offer more evasion
Teacher - includes Bo Staff
Drunken Master - increases speed and precision; includes Monkey Flip and Earthquake

Sindel
Edenian Queen - includes exclusive leg-based attacks and Step Up
Banshee - increases Yell power; includes Yell-based attacks
Witch - includes Levitate, Aerial Fireball, Lower Fireball, and Teleport

Quan Chi
Necromancer - includes Ground Burst moves, Trance, and Skeletal Boost
Oni Demon - includes Fire Breath, Savage Charge, and Summon
Brotherhood Leader - includes Wasp Staff; increases magic damage

That's all I got for now.
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martin_m95
06/15/2014 07:32 PM (UTC)
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Riyakou Wrote:

Quan Chi
Necromancer - includes Ground Burst moves, Trance, and Skeletal Boost
Oni Demon - includes Fire Breath, Savage Charge, and Summon


I think necromancer and oni demon should be other way around.
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projectzero00
06/15/2014 07:47 PM (UTC)
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That's a very interesting thread. And you make some really good points! I never thought of that before. I mean how they could implement the 3 variations to some characters. I certainly hope they don't separate some of their already existing moves in order for this to work. I would deffinitely not be happy if I had to choose between Mileena's roll and telekick for example.
So let's see...about my favs:

Mileena
- A more defensive/zoning variation where she maybe has a parry like Liu Kang's. But instead of fire, she surrounds herself in this pink energy. You get the point :P
-A variation where she uses mostly her sais. Exactly like Scorpions swords. A bit more powerful than her other 2, but slower startups to balance it.
-A more offensive one where she has an unblockable move, more mixups and is in general faster but lower in damage.

Rain
-A variation where he can turn his whole body into liquid form. Should be more defensive and difficult to land hits against.
-A variation where his hands are encased in water (like his second fatality). Similar to Cassie's where her hands have Johnny's green energy.
-One where he has a few more powers where he controls the weather instead of water.

Sheeva
-A legit grappler variation. No MK9 bs! I am talking Solomon Grundy grappler!
-A faster variation where she makes actual use of her 4 hands! They can make some beautiful movement animations, yet they always seem to get it wrong with her and she ends up looking awkward. Make her 4 hands useful throughout ALL her moveset and not just her grab n punch special
-One where she relies more on her long legs. Ground stomp/Telestomp combos.

This is fun! I wish they did something like that to my favs. Now I am sad coz they wont :'(
Noob Saibot

Noob - Maybe instead of Shadow Clones he uses shields and projectables
Noob Saibot - MK9 base
Noob or Saibot- Weapon Style?
I would like to see Kamas be a potential weapon of choice or maybe more than one weapon in this mode like the Scythe that everone wants which i think is cheesy as hell but eh.. better than a Troll Hammer.
The weapons extend from his shadow.
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projectzero00
06/17/2014 10:59 AM (UTC)
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Human-Sub-Zero-4-ever Wrote:
Noob Saibot

Noob - Maybe instead of Shadow Clones he uses shields and projectables
Noob Saibot - MK9 base
Noob or Saibot- Weapon Style?
I would like to see Kamas be a potential weapon of choice or maybe more than one weapon in this mode like the Scythe that everone wants which i think is cheesy as hell but eh.. better than a Troll Hammer.
The weapons extend from his shadow.


Noob has several ways he could use his shadows for the variations. Though I don't want him to start using weapons all of a sudden.
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Demon_0
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06/17/2014 02:04 PM (UTC)
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I don't really see this as an issue. Its all about thinking outside of the box and being a little creative.

Not all of Kitana's styles need to revolve around her weapons. She could have one variation where she can, for example, summon a fellow Edenian warrior who assists her by taking over the fight for, lets say, 5 seconds. Similarly, there are tons of options for the other characters
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Odemuitascastas
06/17/2014 02:11 PM (UTC)
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Shang Tsung would be easy.

MK3. MKDA and MK9.

Of course because the online mode morphs should have some limitation, which I believe would be a choice of two characters in the options.
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.
06/17/2014 02:21 PM (UTC)
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Ermac
Fighter Souls - includes additional hand-to-hand combat moves
Warrior Souls - includes Great Axe
Sorcerer Souls - includes Levitate, Telekinetic Toss, and Teleport Punch

Tanya
Bone Breaker - includes bone-breaking attacks amd Neck Breaker
Pyrokinetic - includes Torpedo Kick, Fireball moves, and Flip Kick
Weapons Master - includes Boomerang, War Hammer, and Elbow Blades
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projectzero00
06/17/2014 03:37 PM (UTC)
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Riyakou Wrote:
Ermac
Fighter Souls - includes additional hand-to-hand combat moves
Warrior Souls - includes Great Axe
Sorcerer Souls - includes Levitate, Telekinetic Toss, and Teleport Punch

Tanya
Bone Breaker - includes bone-breaking attacks amd Neck Breaker
Pyrokinetic - includes Torpedo Kick, Fireball moves, and Flip Kick
Weapons Master - includes Boomerang, War Hammer, and Elbow Blades


MKDA and MKD were really stupid imo trying to add weapons to fighters that didn't really fit them. Some of the characters are well known for their weapons like Kitana, Mileena, Kenshi. That doesnt mean that they should start handing weapons to random characters like Tanya, Sindel, Reptile, Ermac. Tanya should fight like she did in MK4, Reptile shouldn't have a sword, Ermac should leave the axes to Nightwolf, etc. I'd really love it if the variations weren't like the 3D games coz that was a fail.
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thisiscourage
06/17/2014 03:41 PM (UTC)
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projectzero00 Wrote:
Riyakou Wrote:
Ermac
Fighter Souls - includes additional hand-to-hand combat moves
Warrior Souls - includes Great Axe
Sorcerer Souls - includes Levitate, Telekinetic Toss, and Teleport Punch

Tanya
Bone Breaker - includes bone-breaking attacks amd Neck Breaker
Pyrokinetic - includes Torpedo Kick, Fireball moves, and Flip Kick
Weapons Master - includes Boomerang, War Hammer, and Elbow Blades


MKDA and MKD were really stupid imo trying to add weapons to fighters that didn't really fit them. Some of the characters are well known for their weapons like Kitana, Mileena, Kenshi. That doesnt mean that they should start handing weapons to random characters like Tanya, Sindel, Reptile, Ermac. Tanya should fight like she did in MK4, Reptile shouldn't have a sword, Ermac should leave the axes to Nightwolf, etc. I'd really love it if the variations weren't like the 3D games coz that was a fail.


I think we have clearly seen that it will not be like the 3D game variations in fighting stance. These variations seem to be original for each character. And they seem to be fitting nicely. I am looking forward to seeing the returning character variations.
projectzero00 Wrote:
Human-Sub-Zero-4-ever Wrote:
Noob Saibot

Noob - Maybe instead of Shadow Clones he uses shields and projectables
Noob Saibot - MK9 base
Noob or Saibot- Weapon Style?
I would like to see Kamas be a potential weapon of choice or maybe more than one weapon in this mode like the Scythe that everone wants which i think is cheesy as hell but eh.. better than a Troll Hammer.
The weapons extend from his shadow.


Noob has several ways he could use his shadows for the variations. Though I don't want him to start using weapons all of a sudden.


No weapons huh?! okay?... please tell me more :)

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Lokheit
06/17/2014 06:05 PM (UTC)
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"Shadow weapons" would be cool for Noob, his brother now can make any ice weapon he wants, the family can get creative with their respective abilities, and a shadow lime forming a scythe sounds cool.

He could also have a moveset where he features his ninja stars that were like his trademark before.

He could even get rid of the clone: shadow weapon style, black holes style and shurikens style. Neutralize ball and teleport as generic moves. I guess you could change the weapon style with the clone.
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Jaded-Raven
06/18/2014 03:27 AM (UTC)
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I posted this in a Tanya thread, but it slowly disappeared, so going to post the Variations part here (with a few changes here and there).

But before getting into her style variations, I'll focus on her main special moves which she will have in all her variations.

Special Moves:
- Surging Blast: An eldritch fireball of dark flames hurled at the opponent.
- Human Cannon Drill: Tanya flips into a spinning arrow with her feet first, sweeping the opponent off his feet and up into the air.
- Knee Strike: Tanya jumps diagonally up in the air with a knee first which kicks the opponent up into the air.

Variations:
- Sorceress: Being a master of dark sorcery, Tanya uses her knowledge of magic to her defense. Adds these special moves:
+ Aerial Surging Blast: The fireball hurled diagonally downwards when Tanya is in the air.
+ Find Me: Tanya vanishes in dark flames and turns invisible for a short duration of time or until she is hit by the opponent.
+ Eldritch Orbs: Tanya conjures two orbs of dark fire which spins around her for a short duration of time and hurt the opponent if hitting her with any punch or kick. Projectiles and other non-physical hits are not affected by this.

- Backstabber: Trained in the arts of Kobu Jutsu, Tanya wields her Tonfa Blades to battle. Adds Tonfa Blades into her fighting style.
(In case you don't know what I mean by Tonfa Blade, click HERE!)

- Edenian Warrior: Tanya has trained alongside the best Edenian Warriors and specializes in stylish kicks. Adds these special moves:
+ Split Flip Kick: In a forward somersault Tanya makes a split kick and crushes her heel down into the ground which knock the opponent out.
+ Spinning Flip Kick: Tanya spins forward and does a helicopter kick hitting the opponent two times. (Kinda like Chun Li's Spinning Bird Kick from Street Fighter)
+ Downward Spiral Kick: While in air, Tanya makes a diagonal downward Human Cannon Drill. Can be used after Knee Strike for a combo.
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Scar_Subby
06/18/2014 05:51 AM (UTC)
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Jade

Staff technician:
Almost completely staff based attacks

Vanishing Shadows:
Adds dodging shadows and vanishing winds(her Mk:d teleport)

Edenian guard:
Adds a blade to her staff which can do more damage as well as razorang up and down.

Yeah it needs work. Jaded can help me out here.lol
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Jaded-Raven
06/18/2014 06:05 AM (UTC)
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Scar_Subby Wrote:
Jade

Staff technician:
Almost completely staff based attacks

Vanishing Shadows:
Adds dodging shadows and vanishing winds(her Mk:d teleport)

Edenian guard:
Adds a blade to her staff which can do more damage as well as razorang up and down.

Yeah it needs work. Jaded can help me out here.lol


Staff Technician is pretty spot on. She could get some cool moves including her staff, like Nightwing did in Injustice, though not necessarily the same moves as his.
Add the heel kick to the Vanishing Winds, like Kitana did in MKvsDCU, and the Vanishing Shadows variation sounds good to me. ^^
Not sure about the Edenian Guard with the bladed staff, but I do like the point of giving the control of the Razorang to a specific variation.

Overall, I approve! ;P
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ItsDaveyJ
06/18/2014 06:42 AM (UTC)
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Here are my thoughts for the 3 female ninjas.

Mileena
1: Sai Variation - Has her sai projectile and weapon based attacks. Basically just gives her a zoning tool and a buff to her normals for a better footsie game.
2: Melee Variation - Has her rolling ball and teleport kick moves. More rushdown and mixup oriented.
3: Hungry Variation - Centered around her MK9 move where she jumps on you and bites you. Slightly influenced by grappler styles even maybe? A fast grappler ninja could be interesting.

Jade
1: Staff Variation - Has her staff for amazing long length pokes. Keeps her overhead smash and give her a long range staff low attack for amazing mid-range high/low game.
2: Razor-rang Variation - Obviously a zoning variation. Various properties on different razor-rangs.
3: Melee Variation - Uses moves like her green kick. Rushdown oriented. Faster and better frame advantage over Staff Variation to balance shorter attack range and weaker footsies.

Kitana (Her third variation is difficult. So they could either go with my idea or even better develop her character more and give her an interesting 3rd variation. So I'll toss out a few ideas for the 3rd variation.)
1: Fan Variation - Has her fan projectile for strong zoning (hopefully not as redundant as MK9 though). Fan lift for combos and damage. I'd make it weaker zoning than Jade's Razor-rang Variation but in return she gets better normals because of her fans.
2: Melee Variation - Has square punch and pretty kick. Pretty similar to other melee styles. Rushdown that is faster and better frame advantage.
3: Teleport Variation - She has had a teleport special move before... I guess bring that back and make it central to this stance? I'm not sold on the idea though. Could make for an excellent counter pick for zoning characters.
3: Princess Variation - Summons Edenian subordinates. Or ninja subordinates. I wouldn't let the player control her summons. I think they can specify which summon to use because each should have a predefined special function.


Kitana is probably the most difficult to come up with 3 variations for. But only for the current Kitana as we know her. We don't know what story developments they might have planned for her which could easily give us a third variation. Maybe she delves into magic since her mother had magical abilities? Maybe we (I hope not) get zombie Kitana who wants to eat you. I dunno. But I don't think it should be that hard for them to come up with a good story idea for her third variation.
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TemperaryUserName
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06/18/2014 07:15 AM (UTC)
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Note that in all three variations, Ermac has tele-slam and tele-punch.

Mystic: Telekinetic Push and projectile are added to arsenal for heavy zoning potential.

Legion: Ermac can activate two separate modes. When the souls are hovering around Ermac, his defense increases; when the souls concentrate into his fist, he gets a damage boost. Activating either mode requires 10 second cooldown.

Repentance: Tele-punch no longer leads to knockdown. Instead, it leaves the opponent standing with Ermac at heavy frame advantage for rushdown. Ermac is also granted levitation, which can be cancelled into tele-punch, slam, or (dare I say) divekick. Yes. I'm giving Ermac a divekick, and it's fucking safe on block with frame advantage.
EDIT: and can I get props for these sick ass variation names?
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projectzero00
06/18/2014 07:22 AM (UTC)
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ItsDaveyJ Wrote:


Please no! Why would you wanna separate the special moves characters already have, in 3 variations? That is a terrible idea! Never in a million years would I wanna choose betweem Mileena's roll and her telekick. As I am sure Kitana users wouldn't wanna choose between her fans and her kicks, Jade's staff and razorang, etc. It would piss a lot of people off.
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Kitsune
06/18/2014 07:50 AM (UTC)
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Actually, it's not that hard to think of 3 distinctive versions of my beloved Kitana:

Classic special moves for all three variations: Fan toss, Fan lift, Square boost.

1. Assassin variation.
Adds MK9 Cutting fan (d,f,bp) and her MKDA ability to stab the opponent with one of her fans - the life bar of her opponent is slowly drained for the rest of the match. Adds the ability to choose when to throw the second fan - like in MK9 enhanced fan toss, but here it doesn't require meter burn.

Costume: Adds sheath (scabbard) for the weapon on her waist or legs.

2. Kick Ass variation.
Adds Pretty kicks, Fake Out Kick and a new backflip move with those pretty legs. :)

Costume: Adds leg bandana.

3. Royalty variation.
Adds Teleport (she had one in MKA and MK9 x-ray). Adds the ability to summon some of her loyal Edenian warriors for a surprise attack (similar to Cassie Cage's air-strike).

Costume: Adds a tiara or a crown on her head.
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ItsDaveyJ
06/18/2014 09:18 AM (UTC)
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projectzero00 Wrote:
ItsDaveyJ Wrote:


Please no! Why would you wanna separate the special moves characters already have, in 3 variations? That is a terrible idea! Never in a million years would I wanna choose betweem Mileena's roll and her telekick. As I am sure Kitana users wouldn't wanna choose between her fans and her kicks, Jade's staff and razorang, etc. It would piss a lot of people off.


I did that because from what I saw that's what it seems like NRS is doing already. At least to me it looks like they are keeping one or two special moves for all variations (Scorpion's spear, Sub-Zero's ice projectile) but all their other iconic special moves are split across variations. And BTW I put Mileena's roll and telekick in the same variation. So you wouldn't have to choose between them.

And actually I would love to be able to choose between things like staff or razor-rang, etc. for this reason:
These variations are a character loyalist's dream. Encounter a bad matchup? Choose a different variation of the same character and maybe it won't be as bad or even switch to your advantage. Already Sub-Zero's ice clones are in specific variation... I think people won't be as upset as you think. Especially when they find out the benefits it gives to their character.
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