K.

You're missing one key point. Look at the games you mentioned:

VF
Tekken
Street Fighter

Now let's widen the field even more to most of the fighting games that are still out there today:

VF
Tekken
Soul Calibur
Dead or Alive
Mortal Kombat
Street Fighter

Do you notice a trend? They're all 3D fighting games. What's the difference between Mortal Kombat and the rest of them? Well, you can throw out Street Fighter because it only made one attempt at a 3D game (the terrible SF EX), even the new game is set on a 2D plane, but it's not out yet so you can't really judge it. So at least currently, NONE of those games had to make a transition from 2D to 3D.

That's why MK HAD to change. You could argue that the multiple fighting styles are unnecessary, and I'd probably agree with you, but in reality, times have changed. Gone are the days when two special moves and similar basic attacks for every character can make a good fighting game. Nowadays you have games where characters have 100 plus basic moves that are, for the most part, unique to each specific character. These moves form the characters style and they can be identified now, not just by a harpoon spear or an ice ball, but by capoiera or wrestling etc.

That's why MK had to change. There's NO way MK could just put it's 2D system on 3D plane and expect the gaming world to embrace it, not at the time when MK:DA was in development and 3D fighting games were all the rage in the fighting game scene. Heck, the only reason why Street Fighter can get away with it now is because SF has been off the radar for so long and the diehard fan base of the series is just happy a new one is coming out. Oh yeah, and it's an actual SEQUEL (what a novel concept).

So yeah, to answer your question, VF, Tekken, Soul Calibur etc were conceived from the ground up to be 3D fighters, that's why those games haven't needed drastic overhauls, but to keep up with the times and changing technology, MK was forced to reinvent itself. Street Fighter was initially unsuccessful at this and it nearly killed the series for good several years ago.

Ya see what I'm saying here?

I see your point and I agree with you some.But MK did not have to go 3D and IMO the 2D mk games were always better.And the new street fighter coming out is not actually a sequel cause it takes place before SF3 and somewhere in between the SF2 games but after the SFALPHA series which came out after SSF2T so why call it Street Fighter 4?

So why keep MK 3D if it's not working as well when it was a 2D game?I guess everything really is only an opinion about something or another and nothing really could be fact other then sales records.So with that in mind MK sold better when it was a 2D game and not as well when they jumped to the 3D realm.But in anycase you have to sorta admit that MKDA-MKA didnt really feel like a Mortal Kombat game but MK4/GOLD did.

So I guess its just a wait and see with MK8 and if they can come close to what mortal kombat is again.I don't think they will be able to top any of the 2D games but you never know and heres hoping.BTW I do like MKDA-MKA but only for a fighting video game but not for a Mortal Kombat game.

I think the idea of Mortal Kombat as a fighting game is too big to be restricted to a 2D platform. I think it was gonna have to make the jump at some point anyway. I just wish the transition wasn't so ugly once it did go to 3D.

You're right though, the 2D games were better.

I think they drifted away from a couple of the components that made the 2D gamesreally desirable. Some of the factors that created die hard fans were ignored or forgotten for the sake of "re-starting".

Which btw, isn't a bad thing, and I think doing a re-start every 3-5 games is a very good thing in principal. But the thing is, they don't capitalize or exploit the "keys" of Mortal Kombat. What do I think some of those are?

Well,

1. Intense Adrenaline: In the early games, you could have things like "flashes" to convey a big boom, or large excitement on the screen. Can't do that anymore cuz some knuckle-head kid had a seizure. (lol)

Also, I think that since they stopped using the real character actors, we can't care about the characters on the roster near as much as before. There's an emotional attachment there that is irreplaceable. It's the equivalent of an Elmer Fudd Cartoon vs the Matrix movies.

You know? Both have blatantly obvious fantasy elements, but one exercises the possibility of "Actuality" far more than the other one just based on appearance. Both have the characters that get hurt...you just can't feel one nearly as much.

So, when the "polygons"(or Elmer Fudd, in this case) suffer a fatality...who cares?

Question is, What do you do about that except for to go 3D and use CG characters?

Answer now, might be to use different special effects and write ALOT better than they did for the first couple 3D games. No one knows what they were thinking back then, or what access they had to other options though. So it's a done deal no matter what I guess.

2. Because of #1 there, fatalities are dumbed down considerably. Some of the over the top ways fatalities happened after the games went to 3D were so dull by concept it didn't make any sense.

Instead of "OmG! Did you see that!", you got "WTF was that?!"

Which takes me to another thing, without reality as a more obvious source for Mortal Kombats content, ideas suffered ALOT. I think this also had alot to do with the laws, some of their lawsuits, and the "new capabilities" of technology.... But, there's no excuse for a lack of good, executable ideas. Never is because, there's always at least 3-5 ways to say//express one thing.

Now, I think the problem there is you have a game that thrived on raw material, now limited, and criticized technically too much. Too many technical individuals sticking their nose in the shit they're not supposed to in order for the game to blossom the way it was supposed to.

So again, the Question here is: How do you get around all that, and still create a good game that keeps elements of the old games in there?

Answer now, might be to have involved a tightly woven group of fans(maybe one site forum or something), and have them inspire the MkTeam by just considering logical, knowledgeable input and great ideas at a time before or during production// pre-production.
This lets the MKTeam take care of the technical and legal stuff like they're supposed to, and as they are still the creators of the game, have a continual abundance of ideas to consider for each game.

People forget that when you get an account of one of these sites that, anything you post on here, can and should be at least considered for use by the owners of the game. It should. I mean, notification would be nice for the people who's ideas are seriously looked at(to retain core-fan morale), and manipulation of those ideas should always happen. But 8 games in and 15yrs later, fans know what the game is about. Everybody gets it....they definitely have a recognizable reputation by now. I have no doubt.

The Relativity of an idea, Legalities of directly referencing "fans", and "How Executable" the ideas are - are the keys for the producers to consider and analyze. I don't think there's a good reason why fans aren't always serious advocates as far as raw ideas are concerned. Cuz there's nothing wrong with doing that as far as I can tell right now.

As far as sourcing reality in Mortal Kombat, they already crossed that threshhold with the first game and opened up the door for an impossible amount of these games out right now....it's just not something people readily recognize.

Mortal Kombat was the first game that we actually got to have control of REAL PEOPLE. They did it in such a way, that it was perfectly acceptable that the characters got killed. Lol! The after effects of fame and fortune became the problem.

Anyway, sourcing all the types of media is perfectly fine in concept and in parody. Look at all these "Meet the Spartans", "Scary Movie", "Date Movies", and ect. tyes of films out here right now. Deliberate collages of pre-existing material....in concept...and in parody. And they're making a killing at the box office every-time. lol

What's the problem MK?


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Sry for the novel....again. But I think I make some valid points here.
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I agree the 2-D fighting games were better, but i thin k if they went back to that formula, they would be going backwards instead of forwards.

Its a new day and age in videogames. And even if boon and co. wanted to go back to that, Midway itself may not want to fund a game that looks the way the 2-D games did. With PS3 and X-box being the main source for videogames, it might not be very profitable to them. Perhaps if the arcades were still booming, then yes it would make sence.

It does show tho that this is the 3rd recreation of the mk fighting style and look...(MK4, MKDA-MKA, and now MK8) /we may be on a sikning ship, or perhaps 3rd times the charm. Lets wait and see what they give us this time before we decide what style is the best, they might just suprise us this time.

I would have to say, the MK team needs to keep one mantra in mind when designing MK:

"Less is more."


Instead of trying to be over the top and see how gory they can get they need to deprive the player of it.Keep it realistic. If a move should draw blood, then let it draw blood. No, over-the-top, corny fatalities. Make the fatalities, far and few between, and when they do happen, make them well-thought out and carefully implemented. Instead of beating us over the head with senseless, over-the-top, cartoon, violence, string the player along like a good horror movie, constantly bringing them to the brink of shock only to leave them a shaking, shivering mass, unable to defend themselves when the actual onslaught does come. And when it does come, make it fleeting and brief. A split second of sheer terror, overwhelming your senses and leaving you unable to react.

man please be realistical!

i love fighting game but lack of originality and bad gameplay is a con that is damaging the entire fighting game genre.

look at TEKKEN:since Tekken 3 nothing changed!
in tekken 6 they're planing to add some little things(like characters that can use items and firearms...firearms?).
Yeah i see a video where Brian Fury shoted another fighter with a rifle.
am i worng,or tekken fanboys laughed at MK3 when they sae Stryker using his gun?

VIRTUA FIGHTER 5

it's a disappointeing game.It's good but can be better.the PS3 version haven't the online game and with all the respect there aren't so much differences between Virtua Fighter 4 evolution and Virtua Fighter 5

SOUL CALIBUR

absolutely overrated,the worst fighting franchise i've ever seen.
actually its' unplayable for non-hardcore fans like me.
you can't chain combos longer than 2-3 hits,and mysteriously if you keep pressing button combinations randomly your character freezes instead of moving.
this is the basic gameplay con of SC series.
but do we want to talk about shorter weapons that hit the enemies longer than a spear?
hundreds of combos executed with 3 buttons only?
no blood at all?
characters similar to other fighters from other fighting games?

please don't offend Mk saying that SC is better.

now let's talk about MK.
actually the switch system about fighting styles is great.
first of you're not foced to switch style during a combo.
every fighting style have finished combos plus cross over combos with other styles.
so if you don't want to press L1 or Left trigger during a combo just execute you 5-6 hit basic combo(instead of SC 2-3 hits...sigh).

all MK needs is a better storylines,no comic relief(even tough a comic relief character is ALWAYS useful,look how Soul calibur characters are boring),dark style and maybe...more atmosphere like horror movies.
not necessary talking about gore7splatter,i mean...some aspects from horror cinema.
i mean terror,anxiety,waiting fro something that is close to happens,shock,surprise,desperation....
i see this element only in mk1 and a bit in MKTrilogy with the new combo system,some dark arena and few ood music by Dan Forden(one of the greatest music composer of all time in videogames world).
Also Shaolin Monks have his good moments with the attack of the tarkatans and you have to resque the monks from them.
the part where you have to turn off the fire in the shaolin temple is great.
if they add some kind of countdown ...you would feel adrenaline inside your body.
also the interference of Cage during the fight against goro was unespected.

mk 8 needs something unical.
mk 8 needs to be played also in japan.
i think japan is the only problem that Mk have:MK is played troughout all the world,but not japan where only very few pppl plays on it.
Midway should find something intriguing for japanese ppl too.

PS:apologize for my bad english

To be objective it is safe to state that nothing is true from the above listing.

I wouldn't consider myself a "Hardcore Fighting Fan". I don't go through the command lists to find what is the best way to start a juggle combo. But Soul Calibur is the easiest game to pick up and play.

Your character doesn't freeze while you are mashing, it is possible that you have in putted a unblockable or charge attack or a delayed attack.

You do know that Mortal Kombat has only got 4 attack buttons, don't you? I know it needlessly uses all the buttons on a joypad but still....

Plus there are the attacks you can pull off with 2 attack buttons.

You do realise that Mortal Kombat is pretty much the only fighting game series with blood.

Characters similar to others? There is Yoshimitsu and Yun Seong who borrows some kicks from Hwoarang from Tekken. Other than that I can't see your point.

Soul Calibur is in a different league than Mortal Kombat.

to be objective you should explain what you need.
actually i played SC3 and it's almost unplayable.
girl with 20 cm long sword can hit me (armed with 2 meters spear long) before i can attack even tough there is a long distance.

and also sc3 have 2-3 hits combos(the other combos of 5-6 hits are useness) and you have to tap three buttons(intst od 6 of Deadly Alliance).

actually i really don't see why you still consider Soul Calibur 3 better than Armageddon:they are actually on the same level(to be objective Mk for me is best than SC) and on IGN.com they have the same rating.

i can't enjoy playing with SC3 t's too boring and it gets on my nerves.
Mk is less mechanic than Sc3.
In SC3 there is the boring block-attack 1-attack 2-block thing.
in mk armageddon you can use useful combos,parries,blocks,combo breaker,hand on hand combat and weapon combat.

SC 3 haven't nothing of this.
of hundreds of moves listed in SC3 you can win using all the same 3-4 moves.
in mk armageddon you need to use tactis(fireballs at the right moment,teleports,some specials,death traps,level changes,etc)