Well, Subzero/Scorpion do parallel Ken/Ryu in the sense that each pair contains the two most popular characters from their franchise. In the story sense... eh, I don't know. Kung/Liu are allies, but Kung Lao always had the quiet and independent aura to him. At least the was the case prior to Shaolin monks. Hard to think of them as rivals.

In terms of iconicness, I would again give the honor to Sub/scorpion, especially given that Kung Lao wasn't in any of the movies.

well i have seen alot of people on other forums who love liu kang and was mad that they killed him off. they also thought that liu was the main fighter who was supposed to save the day. sub and scorp are popular but they are not the main CHAMPIONS. its just like in star wars, darth vader is popular but he is not the main good guy. get it???

I don't understand the Liu Kang hate. ok he's taking too much space in the story, but I really like him since i've played MKSM.

One thing midway could do: Ressucitate Liu Kang, he could defend earthrealm again by teaming up with Kung Lao, sonya, Jax, Fujin ect.. but he should not be the MK champion anymore.

I'm not very sure who could be the next MK champion. I thought about a new fighter who could be introduced in the game.

I don't deem Liu Kang hateable or pointless. My only grudge against Liu Kang might be based on the fact he kept defeating and humiliating Shang Tsung, for whom I think he's 10x more mystical, interesting, charming, suave, and well-developed than Liu Kang has ever been. My own taste, of course, but I also think there is a piece of objectiveness in it.


Like Xiaoudun (?), I, too, think MK has already had its heroes: Sub Zero and Scorpion. We really do witness their life stories and tragedies, conflicts, then alliances, then conflicts again... It's not of grave importance that Sub Zero had his appearance noticeable changed throughout the franchises, it's that in the story of each game, he kept intriguing us with his biography, dilemmas, being betrayed by his own clan, ceasing to wage war against Scorpion (but fighting him again in MKA's intro movie (!?))...

Many potential heroes have been neglected, too.. For example, I really loved Rain in UMK, and he missed me in later installments, and when I heard he's in MKA, I was happy. But both his appearance indicate no great role was given to him whatsoever: he's the same bland pawn in UMK and MKA... Unoriginality in his special moves and alternate costume wasn't much of a help either.

I actually like Liu Kang, but he already fuckin' died. He IS dead. Past and present tense. It HAPPENED. It is time to accept it and move on into the future.

I don't want to see any going backwards, making things that have happened unhappen. Living in the past is childish, it's not intelligent writing, MK can do better than that.
Instead of Liu Kang being alive again, he'd be more interesting to the stories if he became a legend like the Great Kung Lao, something for the future Shaolin Monks to live up to and try and reach that bar of greatness.

I agree. He should just become a legend. In MKD we were able to visit his ghost. That could be a way of keeping him somewhat present in the series as well.

I suppose I wouldn't mind Liu's ghost sticking around as an NPC that characters occasionally visit his grave and commune with him for advice, kinda like Obi-Wan in Empire and ROTJ.
In Armageddon, though, they made it sound like he couldn't stay in the mortal world forever, he'd have to pass on sometime. It was just the strength of his connection to Kitana that was keeping him around, and then Nightwolf wanted to help him so he transferred that bond to himself.

i actually heard out of ed boon's mouth that liu kang was meant be the hero of mk. they messed him up when they killed him then turned him into a stupid zombie. i stiil want him in the games because he is one of my favs. as for his story i already put one up. but its basically liu kang(evil) and dark raiden as the main villians as a team.

So was Shujinko.

You can't just label a character "the hero" and leave it at that. If you want your "hero" to work as a protagonist, it helps if he/she actually has some development or conflict and maybe stands out in some way. Otherwise, the character winds up being an annoying plot device.
Liu Kang is just a cookie-cutter hero with a paint-by-the-numbers story and a bland appearance and moves.

Meanwhile, characters like Sub-Zero, Kitana, Scorpion (more-or-less, to a certain extent), and others are developed and have enctounered conflict and evolved through the story. So it's really no surprise they've emerged as some of the primary protagonists of the series and it's also no coincidence that these characters have been gradually becoming more and more important to the plot....if not important already.
Sub-Zero is only a step or two away from officially becoming "the hero" himself.

This is just one of the basic principles of storytelling. The more developed protagonists who encounter the most conflict will become focal points of the story.

I'll give you an example....X-Men.
Everyone knows the X-Men, right? Well, when X-Men was first created back in the 60's, Cyclops was supposed to be the main central "hero" of the franchise. Just one problem: no one cared about him. He was a bland, boy scout loser and no one was really interested in him. Few may know this, but when X-Men first started in the 60's, it bombed. It was practically cancelled by the beginning of the 70's and only reprinting old stories.

Few years later, they introduce a bunch of new members to the team...among them a guy named Wolverine. Now Wolverine, when he first appeared, was never meant to be anything. Matter of fact, in his earliest appearances, he was portrayed as kind of a jackass....talking a lot shit and charging into battle only to get the worst of it.

However, people were interested in Wolverine. He was mysterious, he had conflicts, and at the time, he was very unique. So writers stated to give a little more attention...developing his story and giving him more conflicts. Fans responded, so the creators gave him more attention. Fast forward to today....Wolverine is practically the main guy of X-Men.

Point is, Liu Kang may have been designated the "main hero" some 15 years ago....but things changed. Very little effort was made in making worthy of such a grand title and better characters have emerged as Mortal Kombat's movers and shakers.

Killing him off was a great idea and they should leave him dead.

I don't see any point in Liu Kang returning. He's long had his run in MK, and the problem is, he wasn't a well-developed character. Another problem lies within the storytelling in the older MK games. It was fairly simplistic in that you had a small paragraph or two detailing the main story and short paragraphs for each character's third person bio.

If they had intended to make Liu Kang the "main hero" from the start, they should have made MK1-MK3 the story arc in which Liu Kang develops into that role. If Mortal Kombat were to have a reboot and to make Liu Kang the main hero again, they should show that sense of character and story development.

yeah i agree with you guys about he has had no sory development. but thats the mk team fought. after liu left, their really has not been a MAIN HERO, just raiden gathering warriors to fight. shujinko was stupid. and liu needs a better story lines, but his look and moves are classic. sub-zero and scorpion are the same, but you guys like them so you dont see flaws in them. all subs and scorp do is fight each other(mk1-mk4). scorp still chases quan chi around everday(mk5-mk7).scorps was supposed to become the elder gods champion but they never expanded on that. subs had a lame storyline with frost. everybody was messed up in armageddon. and please dont try to make it sound like liu kang is not popular because he is.

Going to have to disagree with you on that one. He's a Bruce Lee copy who does a glorified jumping kick and throws generic fireballs. And aside from his dragon fatality, his finishers suck.



Incorrect.



There's a lot of wrong here, but I really don't feel like going into detail on it. I will say though that they have indeed fucked Scorpion up in recent years.



Yeah, I really have to question that.

I won't deny Liu Kang has his fans. And he probably has more fans than a lot of other characters. But popular..?

I remember the majority of the fanbase rejoicing when he was killed off in MK:DA and getting pissed when they brought him back in Deception.
Since I've come to just this site alone, I've seen dozens of "Rate the Character" threads, "Boot & Immune" games and all sorts of popularity things. Not once have I ever seen Liu Kang crack even a top ten. I mean, through the years, this site has seen hundreds of members with different tastes come and go...but if Liu was really "popular" you'd think he'd score a high mark at least once.
And that's just this site alone. I've been to plenty in my day.....which is kind of sad really, now that I think about it.

Anyway, again, I'm not denying Liu Kang has his fans. But in all the years I've played Mortal Kombat and all my experience as a fan, I've never seen anything to suggest Liu Kang was or is a truly popular or beloved character.

i dont mean sub and scorp are the same in powers. i mean they have stayed the same through out the series. basically the same moves, same outfit. yeah they had few changing storylines. mk1-mk3 are classics to me. so liu kang has been in mk since day ONE. liu kang is a LEDGENDARY ICON for mk whether you like him or not. ryu and ken are very cliche with karate outfits,moves,looks, but they are legendary icons for street fighter. i mean you either like liu or you dont. if you like him you want him to come back and if you dont you will try to make up any reason he should not come back. everbody has the right to their opinion.

most iconic fighters on an"average" for most mk fans.

1.scorpion/subzero
2.raiden/shao kahn
3.liu kang/shang tsung
4.sonya/jax
5kitana/mileena
6.johnny cage/goro
7.kung lao
8.reptile
9.baraka
10.kano
and if you look at most fighting game "HEROES" most of them are bland and cliche. virtua fighter,tekken......

Liu isn't a bad character, I've enjoyed playing him in MK 1 en 2. But like some said, he is dead. Leave it that way. I hope they don't kill of Kung Lao, far more intriguing IMO. Especially in combination with his more darker mystical look in MK2. He could be Lui's replacement as represantive for the White Lotus. But im not sure if the hero role would suit him as it did with Liu Kang. So I would leave that part alone.

yeah i get it he's dead so keep him dead in a fake story. what if subzero died or another one of your favs died. you would want them back no matter how much sense it did not make. oh wait its a fake story doesnt have to make sense, it just has to be interesting. and the mk team writes the most stupid stories anyways. who kills off their hero and brings them back as ZOMBIES?????lol

uhh no. the stories are fake. so you are able to use your imagination. these are videos games not real life. thats the main appeal of comics and movies, because they are not REAL. even ed boon said that in the making of mk3 video. no one wants reality(most people). look at the top 25 grossing movies of all time. avatar, spiderman, star wars, batman, twillight etc.... the american people could give a flying fuck about reality. thats not an opinion its a FACT. anyways like i said if you want to kill off liu kang, scopion, and sub zero.... do it in the movies not the game.

and take a look at this

subzero(turned to noob) died, he came back
scorpion died, he came back

they just came back in INTERESTING ways. one had a brother who took his place, and one is a ninja spectre(spelling). coming back as a zombie is not cool or interesting.

Liu Kang and Raiden should return as evil sub-bosses due to their condition recently. If Liu Kang isn't evil as a zombie yet, someone must put a spell on him so he can become bad.

yeah thats why in my story liu(+raiden) turns bad because i have realized that the same ole liu kang has gotten boring. so he needs something to bring his character back to life and start being cool again. a new outfit and a bad boy swagger could do it.....if you check the tekken 6 story line thats what they idid with Jin(the hero) too....

That's pretty cool. Yeah, and I mean if Liu is a zombie, they might as well make him bad because making him good in that condition doesn't really make any sense.

You argue that Sub-Zero and Scorpion have had the same moves and same outfit with a few changing storylines yet defend Liu Kang by referring to him as a "legendary icon". I find this highly ironic, because Liu Kang's costumes and moves haven't changed all that much. At least with Sub-Zero and Scorpion, they get more new moves and their costumes are different while keeping the familiar design.

Look at Liu Kang's costumes in the games he's been in.

MK1: shirtless, black pants, white shoes

MK2: shirtless, black pants with red stripes down the sides, red headband

MK3-MKT: the same as in MK2 except that he has long hair

MK4/MKG: exactly the same as in the previous games except he has a red tank top on

MKDA (intro): exactly the same as his MK3-MKT look

MKD/MKU and MKA: the same as his MK3-MKT look except one of his looks is a zombie form

MKSM: exactly the same as his MK3-MKT look

MK vs. DC: the same as his MK3-MKT look except that he has a belt on

Also, look at the special moves.

MK1: flying kick and high fireball

MK2: flying kick, bicycle kick, high, low, and air fireballs

MK3-MKT: same as in MK2 except in MKT, Liu Kang has the "super bicycle kick"

MK4/MKG: exactly the same as in MK2

MKD/MKU and MKA: the same as in MK2 except he has no air fireball

MKSM: same moves as in previous games with the addition of some new ones like the fiery uppercut and fire burst

MK vs. DC: same moves as in the previous games with the addition of the cartwheel and four moves that can connect to it

---------

Sub-Zero and Scorpion have also been in MK since day one, and they are far more popular characters than Liu Kang. Even though Liu Kang is the Champion of Mortal Kombat and was the main hero in some of the games, that does not make him a deep and interesting character with a good story.

He's a bland character who hasn't changed much in terms of looks or moves. Just because he was the main hero in some games is not a valid reason for him to come back. At least with Sub-Zero, he has enough going for him to have him return.

With Liu Kang, he has had his run. How much more can be done with him while having him be fresh and interesting?

thats exactly the point im making, neither sub or liu has changed that much. both are legends to mk franchise. so why do you want to kick out liu kang and not sub zero...........oh cause liu is not one of your favs, thats the only reason, which is fine but not good enough reason. i actually love scorp and sub a tiny bit more than liu anyways. im not a biased person at all when it comes to arguments. but liu,scorp,sub are in the same boat, and if that boat sinks, then all of them should drown.

subs has got the most new moves out of all of them recently for some reason. scorp got the hell raise,backflip kick..... and i never said liu had an exciting story, game heroes dont, they are just their to defeat the big bad guy and save the world. every fighting game has that "bland main hero fighter" guy, its almost a must have now. do you see them killing off their bland heroes, uhh no. and i think mk never intended to kill off liu kang, they just was trying to make an interesting story for him and f#cked it up MAJORLY!!!

and like i have said before iconic fighters should be in every mk game series.

Really? Sub-Zero hasn't changed much?





Yeah, you're right. He always looks the same. And it's not like he's ever gotten new moves or different Fatalities or anything.



That's a pretty crappy reason to keep anything around.



And you're basing that on what?



Wow. That's wrong on so many levels....especially since, as of MK vs. DC, the whole meaning of the term "icon" has been rendered moot. I mean, when we're calling Kano an "icon," the word has officially lost all meaning.


But, for the sake of argument, lets say there are a certain special few characters who "have" to be in every game. Ideally, these are the characters who would best define the franchise and these are the characters who get that free automatic pass.

For the sake of discussion, let's call these special characters "untouchables."
Now the key thing with an "untouchable" character is there can only be a very small few of them. No more than five. MAYBE six, tops. Anything beyond that, and the concept is meaningless and, more importantly, damaging to the rest of roster.

Let's look at Street Fighter, because everyone loves to use that as an analogy. Street Fighter has it's untouchables. It has it's defining characters who are pretty much guaranteed to be in every game.
Ryu, Ken, and most likely Chun Li. THAT'S IT.
Characters like Cammy, Akuma, and Bison and so on are Street Fighter icons and they're all popular...but they are not untouchables. They don't have the automatic in that Ryu, Ken, & Chun Li have.

Now...Mortal Kombat.
It already has it's untouchables. Scorpion, Sub-Zero, and most likely, Raiden. THAT'S IT. And FYI, none of these three are my favorite characters. I like Sub-Zero and Raiden fine, but I can't say I'm attached to them. And I've grown quite tired of Scorpion to be frank. But I won't deny that, for better or for worse, they've earned their "untouchable" status and I've accepted that.
Now, if they want to add a character or two to that special list, then it becomes a question of "who could" and "who should."

Love him or hate him, Liu Kang is not on that list...nor should he be.

XD, that was a very long post and this Big Skye dude's not going to read or understand a word of it. You can't have an intelligent, even-sided discussion with this guy, man. Just let it go.