I fear that Reiko is the kind of character like Kabal was with his "he actually left the Black Dragons long ago, he's Stryker's cop partner now even though he has only one name like Madonna and people with criminal records aren't allowed to be cops" story in MK9, where they'll go "we had so little story for him that we can just scrap it and start over from scratch, as long as there's still reference to him being the general of Outworld it's fine." and people will generally like it because he's more fleshed out, but I'll be stuck with this "what he had before wasn't much but it made more sense, couldn't they have colored inside the lines?" feeling.

I totally get that. I don't want them to forget his time under Shinnok. If the guy was a part of the original war against the Elder gods, that's a story that could do with telling right there. I see him as kind of a rogue Edenian, and a part of me wants him to have had some importance in Edenia's original fall as well. Something like throwing matches so Outworld stole tournament wins.

Not exactly. Common misconception.

Technically, there WAS no "original war with the Elder Gods." What you're thinking of is the ancient war between Shinnok and Raiden.

The Elder Gods weren't there for that, and neither was Reiko.

The war with the Elder Gods that Reiko is in is the one at the beginning of MK4 when Quan and Shinnok attack Heaven after Tanya helps them take Edenia. His bio says he dies during that one and "mysteriously" comes right back.

What this is meant to illustrate, which many fans didn't understand because it's worded in a confusing way, is that because Reiko is an undead minion of Hell, and Shinnok left the gates of Hell open to fuel his forces, these dead soldiers like Reiko just keep coming back to the front lines no matter how many times you kill them.

(It's ALSO a potential backdoor Tobias left himself to go "the real Reiko DID stay dead but he's been replaced by an imposter in disguise as Reiko...and that imposter is Shao Kahn"...but they decided not to go that route.)
...It would be cool if he was involved in the original conquering of Edenia, though. There's no timeline issues in the way of that one. The only important thing with him is that he's Outworld's general at some point during Shujinko's lifespan, but dies before MK1 to go to Hell and join the Brotherhood...since Goro is the general in MK1 and the title passed from him to Kintaro, Motaro, and Kano (in the old timeline. In the new timeline it's Sindel after Motaro).

Another huge thanks for all the feedback. Mileena will indeed be our discussion character for the next episode, so leave us any questions or points you'd like us to address and we'll do our best to discuss it.

1.Do you think she would fit into that game?
2.Do you think they are gonna give her, her more cunning and deceptive persona from Deception?
3.What would you do to improve her story?

Watched all three episodes as they came out but just commenting now. Loving these podcasts, and regarding the length, I'm perfectly fine with it, lets you get more in-depth on the subjects.

Mileena's never really been a character I'm interested in so thinking of a question was kinda difficult, but I've got one:

A common idea I've seen with the future of Mileena's story is her eventually becoming a good guy or at least neutral based on the idea of her being one of Shao Kahn's biggest victims. What are your stances on this? A good idea? Natural evolution of her story? Character assassination? Something else?

When it comes to Mileena, I have to be honest, I never really liked the character. To me, she was just there to fill a roster space. I do enjoy watching people play her but I never felt the drive to really play her myself aside from the demo that was launched.

I didn't care about her rivalry with Kitana. The fact that people continously mistook her for Kitana proved to me that Edenia is populated with fucking idiots. I will say that her little shining moment of actually holding the throne for a minute was okay.

I was kind of meh on her revamped story in MK9. It certainly makes her more shallow because she doesn't have the history with Kitana. But the psycho-sexual kind of kill you, eat you, and bone you thing she has going on mentally gives her a little bit more color. But that comes down to personal taste. She has the twisted streak of MK in tact and the sexual nature is plus. MK seems to have a problem with expressing sexuality in general, but they might as well start with Mileena and Skarlet.

Her best fatality I think is the swallow from MK2. Mostly because it's the first time I got a hint that she wasn't what she seemed. Most of her other fatalities have been hot garbage though.

Great episode, I liked all of your guys' points on Fujin/Shinnok and Kabal. The generally regarded best character of UMK3 is indeed Kabal, with Human Smoke as a close 2nd. The rest are toss-ups tbh.

Looking forward to ep 4, no questions about Mileena from me, though.

I have always been a fan of Kabal and my favorite fatality of his is when he pumps you up and then you float and blow up. I would be happy if he returns even if no one else does. I liked your podcast guys. I can't wait till episode 4.

It's called Man Eater

Moves from the old games don't have a consistent name. We didn't have moves lists in a pause menu, we had strategy guides instead, which are made by a third party. Often multiple guides exist for the same games, made by more than one company who have different names for things.

Sometimes Liu's Bruce Lee kick is called the "Flying Kick", sometimes it's the "Dragon Kick". Sometimes Sub-Zero does the "Ice Clone" and sometimes it's the "Sub-Xerox". If Stryker shoots his gun in UMK3, it might be "The Gat", or "Bustin' Caps." (I'm sure Midway didn't pick either of those extremely '90s-specific terms...) Even Scorpion's spear was sometimes called a "Harpoon" instead (which is a way more accurate term. A spear has a long pole on the end, not a rope, and you don't use them to reel people in.)

On a side note, I don't remember if it was cyborg or Temp who asked to see one of the cybers with Smoke's hair. I honestly think he'd look like Raiden from Revengence.

I would like to see you guys do an episode discussing some new character archetypes that MK seems to be missing, or open roles that seem like they should be filled. which would seem like a good fit for MKX. Maybe pool some suggestions from the community?

As for Mileena, I think the whole "confusing Mileena for Kitana" thing started going way overboard in the original timeline. I did like the idea that Mileena stole command of the resistance army in MKD, but the logic of how she did it... you would think that Kitana would have warned everybody that she has an evil twin with sais running around, who has a face full of demon teeth and a completely different fighting style, so if they see someone like that claiming to be Kitana, DO NOT FOR ANY REASON OBEY HER COMMANDS.

... Right?

It's specifically said in Deception that the whole reason Mileena's disguise worked is that everyone thought Mileena died years ago.

Kitana was keeping it a secret that Mileena was still alive, hidden in Edenia's deepest dungeon. Probably because if people knew, they'd want Mileena executed, but Kitana thought she could rehabilitate her or something stupid like that.

Baraka found out from Onaga (because he was mind controlling Kitana), and set her free.

Somehow double posted.

Ah. I had forgotten that part.

Loved the new episode, the secrets are one of my favourite aspects of the series. I never got to be involved in the mystery behind Reptile and the MK2 secrets since I was born the year the first game came out and got both at the same time. This meant I didn't care about Reptile's MK1 appearance since he was playable in II. While I noticed Jade and Smoke poking out behind the tree, my dumb five year old self never thought anything of it, so I never discovered their fights until after playing Trilogy.

It was with N64 Trilogy a year later that I really got into it, unlocking fights with Khameleon and a tag team of Sub-Zero and "Sub-Zero in white" (because Sub would kick my ass so it took me ages to find out it was Smoke). So I have the same nostalgic attachment to Khameleon and Human Smoke that most older fans have for the MK1&2 secret characters. I remember being so crushed when I finally defeated them, expecting them to be unlocked, and returned to the character select screen to see those two dragon icons still there. I was overjoyed when I got the internet a year later and found out I actually could unlock them through a code.

Regarding Kombat Kodes, I was never a big fan of them. But that was probably because I was six when I first discovered them and didn't have the patience to try all the combinations. Even with them, I couldn't be assed to put them in so I didn't get to play as Noob in MK4 until about ten years later.

On the "start with all VS unlockables" debate. I was one of those who loved unlocking characters in fighting games. Beating Tekken 2 and 3 with a new character and wondering who I was gonna get was great. It doesn't work nowadays since we know everyone who is in the game before it gets released. If there are one or two characters whose existence is kept a complete secret even after the game is released, I'd love that. Of course, they can't be too hard to unlock for tournament reasons, so I think a good way to go about it is have it to that the characters are easy to unlock if you know, but first you must find out how. Maybe a button code that is kept a secret, with many hints throughout the game as to what it is, so that when the first person discovers and posts the code online, everyone can then use it.

And on the Krypt, I adore Deadly Alliance's Krypt for the wealth of content, especially the little bits of lore Razor mentioned. But I also loved seeing all that MK merchandise I never knew existed and the concept art for cut characters. Deceptions I liked a bit less, especially since the staff photos returned, which I saw no point to since it was mostly the same staff from DA. I'm glade they stopped it after Armageddon, we don't need to see Ed Boon blowing out the candles on his birthday cake.

As I said before, I've never been a fan of Mileena. So all I can say is I agree that turning her good is a bad idea. I tend to see it more with the people who relate to her.

On Mileena.

(1) Do you think her story will be about her bid for the throne of Outworld? If so, will she eventually take the title of Mileena Kahn, Empress of Outworld at some point before or after Kotal Kahn's rule?

(2) Do you think Mileena's personality needs to develop a little more? In MK9, she came across as very two dimensional at times. I like the seductress aspect that they have given her, but perhaps she needs to be a little more discreet.

(3) What gameplay elements do you think work for Mileena? Which needs to be revamped?

Thanks for the feedback, UltraKintaro. Glad you dig the episode. With every new one, we're going to try our best to incorporate any questions and feedback we receive, so keep it coming. We'll let you guys know the next character for the retrospective as soon as possible so we can get more questions from you guys.


The episode is finished, but I think we covered your first two questions for the most part. We didn't get to talk as much about the gameplay as we would have liked (Shad and Cyborg did discuss it somewhat I think). It may have been for the best since the new episode is a bit long, lol. I do have a lot to say about her overall gameplay style, so that's something I'd like to revisit in a future episode.

Great. Thanks, Temp.

1) Absolutely. With Kahn and Tsung gone, my feeling is that that's how we'll move forward to start with, her stepping up to bat at the throne. Kotal will show up and take it from her, or he'll show up first to claim it and she'll contest it. It'd be weird if it wasn't a plot point.

2). I think they need to find the right balance between insane and calculating. We discuss her personality at some length in the latest episode, and the gist of my viewpoint is that it feels like her personality is in this weird kinda chopped-up order, that she should have only gone completely around the bend after taking the throne. Mileena doesn't strike me as the type who'll keep control over a nation for long due to her inherent instability; basically, I could have seen her going from Deception and Armageddon to a state resembling her current crazy status as the pressures of leadership take their toll on her.

3) I found Mileena wonderful in MK9, they got her play style right off the bat. I think she could use a slight boost in damage output, especially for that X-Ray, but I've really got little in the way of complaints.

I feel like MK9 Mileena could've used another new special or two. The "hop on them and bite their neck" move was nice (and I love that it did a different thing if you had done the normal that leaves a sai buried in their shoulder beforehand), but it was the only thing she got besides the same three moves she's had since MK2. Other than that though, I think her gameplay was very solid in MK9.
Hard to imagine what you would even give her for variations in MKX...maybe a command-grab style with more moves like the bite (or her hurricanrana throw from Deception?), a sai rushdown style like Scorp's Ninjutsu, and something teleport-based?

I have a feeling that Mileena will die in MKX, being a playable character or not.

another great episode guys I wouldn't mind if you guys did 3 hours it very good. I like this type of content

I would have to say my favorite kabals fatality is his air/balloon head explode fatality in mk3. was just very different.

why so much dislike for his saw blade special its my favorite move of his. I suck playing as him in mk9 and he beats me quite often but he's not a bad character in my eyes.

I'm curious what was your top ten lists are guys because you guys said you did your by a points system. so if you had your own individual lists I'd like to hear what they were and maybe why.

blackcyborg
TemperaryUserName
RazorsEdge701
Shadaloo.

also you guys seem to dislike scorpion a lot. he's my favorite just curious why you don't seem to like him as much besides his overall storyline.

my top ten would have to be

1. Reptile he's my 2nd favorite I use in MK9. I'd definitely like to see what he'd be like in mkx.

2. Milleena she's a lot of fun to use in mk9 and I use her a lot. Would love to see the sick shit she could do in MKX.

3. Shinnok he's a beast plus he's an evil elder god. He blends so well with Quan already going to be in MKX.

4. Fujin I loved paying as him in MK4 definitely think he'd be better fit then Raiden plus he's god of wind. He's just a lot more fun to use then Raiden cause he's agile and such. Bring back his floating knee. I had some decent combos with him.

5. Cyrax/Sektor either 1 both of them were fun in MK9 but if I had to choose 1 id go with Cyrax to return.

6. Skarlet she's was pretty fun in MK9 and I'd like to see her return think she has a better chance then Meat. Also thought Meat were to return id like to see him get the treatment Skarlet got.

7. Baraka He just fits really well if he returns I'd like to see him be more then a peon like Reptile. With the new engine I could see him looking more scary for sure.

8. Sareena She's got unique look and ties in well with Quan, definitely like to see if she got her own unique move set.

9. Bo Rai Cho I could see him playing like Brad Wong from Dead or Alive games were he has the drunken style. I agree he needs to lose the farts/burps.

10. Hotaru he's underrated in my opinion love to see a flag style for him kind of like few moves Yoshimitsu had in Soul Calibur 2.

Honorable mentions id say Reiko, Havik, Lei Mei, Nitara, Chameleon, Khameleon. Think these characters are salvageable.

My top ten were:

Top 10:
Li Mei
Smoke
Fujin
Nightwolf
Shinnok
Shujinko
Sindel
Havik
Ashrah
Cyrax

I basically compiled it by comparing 3 categories.

1) Favorite characters - Li Mei/Smoke/Sindel
2) Characters who have been under-featured - Fujin/Shinnok/Shujinko/Havik/Ashrah
3) Preferred due to gameplay - Nightwolf/Cyrax

As for the buzzsaw, part of the reason is indeed because I don't understand the logic behind it, but what really compounded the disdain was how good of a tool it was. Kabal was already so powerful, and now he has a zoning/mix-up tool for good measure. I do see the appeal of it, though. People were sad it was gone in Deception.

As always, thanks for the feedback, man. We really do appreciate it.