How should human Sub-Zero return in future MK games?
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posted12/27/2011 06:43 AM (UTC)by
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Obreck
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02/04/2004 07:15 AM (UTC)
Well most likely a human form of Sub-Zero will appear in MK10 or at least its sequels. A lot of Sub-Zero's dedicated fanbase would prefer a human version, and the causal masses will expect to see a familiar incarnation on both Scorpion and Sub-Zero to be present in any future MK sequels.

So (and I admit I'm in a weird mood), if it was up to you how would you handle writing in a human Sub-Zero for MK10, or its followups? To give this discussion some variety I've listed a number of scenarios for any one responding to consider:

DISCLAIMER: MAY CONTAIN MK9 SPOILERS AND/OR CONTRIVED WRITING CONCEPTS


Cyber Sub-Zero is resurrected as fully human: Kuai Liang resurrects freed from being a cyborg. Or otherwise frees himself.



Noob gets a split personallity or is redeemed: Noob Saibot's exposure to the soulnado Nightwolf kicked him into caused one of 3 scenarios:

A: He gets stuck with an internal conflict that causes him to shift between Noob and Bi Han at random storywise (Player select allows players to choose which form they want to use, or even a "2-1" type player).

B: He literally is split into 2 separate beings: one being his evil side (Noob) and the other being his good/neutral side (Bi Han).

C: Bi Han is fully purified back to his mortal form (Elder Sub-Zero).



Oldtime Sub-Zero "crosses over" into the new one: One of the 2 Sub-Zeros from the original timeline ends up being pulled into the new timeline.



A new human Sub-Zero is introduced: Someone besides Bi Han and Kuai Liang ends up taking up the mantle of Sub-Zero, or at least the "human" moveset.



No human Sub-Zero in MK10 and sequels: Human Sub-Zero becomes a relic of noncannon cameos and/or Kreate-a-Character scrap material. Story wise in the new timeline, he is only a memory.



Other: Some other idea you have to post.
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-Brad-
09/09/2011 03:48 PM (UTC)
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The original idea I had before it was revealed Cyber Sub-Zero died was this.
However now that Sub-Zero is a minion of Quan Chi, I think it's the perfect time to reintroduce Sareena into his story.
In a reverse of roles it's now Sareena who eventually leads Sub-Zero (Kuai Liang) the brother of the elder Sub-Zero to see freedom and eventually new life.
---
Noob Saibot (Bi-Han) I believe is best left awakening in the Chaosrealm, much like his ending suggests.
Introducing the Chaosrealm into the picture by becoming a threat to the Netherrealm. Although for selfish reasons, Noob Saibot leads the chaos forces to critical Netherrealm strongholds as Noob Saibot attempts to conquer the Netherrealm himself.
I have much more thoughts on the subject, but it involves other characters from here. I'll post sometime soon.
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Chrome
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About Me

09/10/2011 08:22 AM (UTC)
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To be frank, I think he shouldn't.
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Noobsmoke92
09/10/2011 10:41 AM (UTC)
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Chrome Wrote:
To be frank, I think he shouldn't.


U trolling,right?

Anyways,as Brad said,the perfect time to get Sareena into story. Not only make her to help revive Sub-Zero,but also to turn Scorpion against Quan Chi.
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lurdpabl
09/18/2011 04:28 AM (UTC)
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He can back with magic... why not?
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Nephrite
09/18/2011 11:54 AM (UTC)
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I honestly don't care what explanation they'll use, I just want my human Subby back.
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CyberDemon13
09/18/2011 06:44 PM (UTC)
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I would say keep Kuai Liang a cyborg, and find a way to make Noob Saibot, Bi-Han again. I think the Soulnado splitting him into the good and evil parts of his soul would be awesome (plus we also get Noob back, and he will have a huge role in the Netherrealm invasion plot ("understanding" with the "Cleric of Chaos.")).

I also like the idea of either of the Sub-Zeros being "restored" in Quan Chi's, uh, restoration chamber. grin Although, I think this would work better with Kuai Liang, with the whole Sareena Sub-plot (ahh; get it? tongue). Besides, Bi-Han seems pretty content with being Noob Saibot.

Anywho... that's my take on it (after reading some of your guys' ideas). glasses
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Jaded-Raven
09/18/2011 10:07 PM (UTC)
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I would prefer if a Human Sub-Zero would be nothing more than an extra playable character, but that the canon Sub-Zero would stay cyborg and continue to evolve his storyline as such. He can still go through all the storyline from MK4-MKA as a cyborg - I see no reason why he couldn't.

... Maybe except for the reason that he is currently dead. But none the less, I hope we see him canon as a cyborg in future games. The human Subbie would be a nice alternate outfit, like NRS did with Sektor and Cyrax in this game.
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DeathScepter
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About Me

Save a life; Kill a necromorph

09/19/2011 01:35 AM (UTC)
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Well why not have 2 sub zeros? one human and one cyborg.
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mkwhopper
09/19/2011 04:42 AM (UTC)
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I just want my Human Subby backsad
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Sub-Zero_7th
09/20/2011 12:26 AM (UTC)
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Sub-Zero, whether human or cyborg, should just be dead forever along with the rest of the cast.
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Jaded-Raven
09/20/2011 12:34 AM (UTC)
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Sub-Zero_7th Wrote:
Sub-Zero, whether human or cyborg, should just be dead forever along with the rest of the cast.


So you want the next MK to be full of completely new characters? That would be rather unsettling storyline wise. At least wrap up the current story first before doing something drastic like that.
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Sub-Zero_7th
09/20/2011 02:57 AM (UTC)
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Jaded-Raven Wrote:
Sub-Zero_7th Wrote:
Sub-Zero, whether human or cyborg, should just be dead forever along with the rest of the cast.


So you want the next MK to be full of completely new characters? That would be rather unsettling storyline wise. At least wrap up the current story first before doing something drastic like that.


You can have Sub-Zero (both human and cyborg) and the classic characters all come back, but only for the purposes of gameplay. They really should have just left Sub-Zero and the other characters dead in Armageddon. There's no point in wrapping up the current story when they don't know how to tell a good story anymore. They don't have a good grasp of most of the characters anymore. Sub-Zero had a great story, especially for a fighting game character. Since that was shat on in MK2011, they should just stop where they are and focus even more on the gameplay.
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Scar_Subby
09/23/2011 09:33 PM (UTC)
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Ouch! that's a little harsh to say they should just kill everyone off though.

On the other hand, I do somewhat agree. It's obvious they don't know, or really care for that matter, about their story anymore it doesn't appear. Sub-Zero did have one of the more awesome stories and they really did crap all over it with this game.

I know some are going to say "you just can't accept change" and maybe I can't, but if this new story was the change they were going for in story then maybe they should just stop, or create new characters all together, because I didn't like watching my favorite characters story get ruined in a back to the future story line. It sucked balls. NRS needs to fix their mistakes next time. I would say the biggest problem people have with this game is the story, and although some people may like it, it's hard for them to deny it because Ed's got tweets and people pissed off everywhere about their characters, something you don't want to do on you reintroduction of a game.

Honestly, and I know for sure people will disagree, he should have just told the story the way it was last time, filling plotholes were needed and changing a few minor things here and there. The fact he went in and created cyber sub out of the sub-zero that everyone has known from MK2 til now was bound to piss a lot of people off and honestly they should have knew that, but they didn't. An that's why I do slightly agree with you. If they can't write a good story and do the characters justice then just create a new roster and do what you will with them. I don't want to see my character's story get ruined because they want to make "big changes".

Honestly this story didn't yell mortal kombat at me. It yelled kill everyone to shock the hell out of people, and now if they bring them back it's going to look cheap as hell and they will just be backtracking. Why do they do this to themselves why? They seriously need some new writers, that's all I can say here.

Anyway, I would suggest that Sub-Zero escaped from Sektor and the cyborgs and was truly never automated, however they managed to copy his memories onto another cryomancer, such as his sister, so that the cryomancer ability would be unlocked within them and then automated them for Sub-Zero's treachery.

or have Sareena take Sub-Zero to Quan'c purification chamber. Those are the only options I see.

I will also go on record saying I didn't like Sub-Zero being just another good guy like stryker, liu kang, sonya, johnny cage, etc... in this game. He's supposed to work with the forces of light behind the scenes not on the front lines. It didn't do wonders for his character for me. Overall actually, Sub-Zero got crapped on more than any character in this game this time around, and it would be hard to argue that as well.
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Sub-Zero_7th
09/24/2011 01:30 AM (UTC)
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I don't want to be a downer or anything, but they really should have just left Sub-Zero and at least most of the other characters dead in Armageddon. At least Sub-Zero would have gone with a bang, having a death in a huge, epic battle instead of being killed by a mere uppercut (if I remember correctly). But yeah, like I said before, they could just have Sub-Zero, both human and cyborg forms, as characters just for gameplay. They could be free downloadable characters along with other classic characters. I did like what they did with his gameplay so that's a big plus. I wouldn't say that he got crapped on the most. That still goes to Raiden though characters like Shang Tsung and Mileena are pretty up there as well. Sub-Zero got it pretty bad but not as bad as those others.
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Scar_Subby
09/25/2011 03:19 AM (UTC)
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Well, the reason I say that is that he got shown getting beat up in nearly every part of the media. Like the Kratos reveal, and all videos before release.

then he is getting punched in the opening.

The statue bookends have him getting killed

and he got turned into a cyborg then died by an uppercut.

So I don't think saying he got crapped on the most would be a far stretch from the truth. Raiden got it bad too cuz he looked like an idiot, and so did Melina having a child mind??WTF?? but I would still say he got it worse than even them.

If he returns in future games I feel his character needs to be shown some major respect seeing as he is the most popular character behind Scorpion. They really need to watch what they do to him.

I don't agree with the fact he should have been killed off after Armageddon though. If they would have continued on after Armageddon instead of going back int time and Scorpion survived then I would expect to see Sub-Zero right along with him and his powers enhancing to that of a god would have been the perfect way to do it. A ffew other classics would have survived for me too such as Raiden, Sonya, Reptile, Noob Saibot, and maybe even Johnny Cage. Honestly I probably would have just used it as a plot device to kill of all of the un-needed characters like Kobra, Hsu Hao, Dairou, Darrius, etc...

Sub-Zero definitely wouldn't have died though. Although I still agree with you on the fact that if they were going to do this to him I almost would have rather they just killed him off never to return. It is sad that they did this to him.

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PKICE99
09/27/2011 12:43 AM (UTC)
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human form and cyber form..i think they should include a few moves he had from mk vs dc..that being the teleport and counter attack.
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LadyRaiden
09/27/2011 05:59 AM (UTC)
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I kinda like the Cyber Sub-Zero.

But the only way I can see them making a human Sub-Zero is one of the following:

1. There is another brother not yet mentioned or perhaps a son of the elder Subby. (oh gods, I beg of you that this is not used)

2. I could never figure out why after he died, Subby still had his cyber form. Shouldn't the soul have take up the human form? To me this may hint that Quan Chi lied about having the souls of the warriors. It wouldn't be the first time he has lied to a god and gotten away with it. So if Quan Chi lied...where is younger Subby's and the other's souls really at? Can SZ be brought back to life as a human? (Very, very unlikely)

3. Subby decides to trade his services to either Quan Chi or Shinnok for his human form back. This could lead to Sareena coming into the story working along side Sub-Zero. (I can see Scorpion being seriously pissed about this one, and I see this as the most likely.)
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McHotcakes
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About Me
"Never Stay Down"- Steve Rogers

09/27/2011 11:53 PM (UTC)
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Well here's my theory. Sareena finds out Sub-Zero is in the NetherRealm and is able to temporarily gain control of her demon side (thanks to the power of love, or something equally as cheesy) and frees Subby from Quan Chi's control. Then the two escape Hell and find the mysterious doctor from Kabal's ending(who I'm assuming probably has something to do with the Lin Kuei's cybernazation process) who turns Subz back to his human form.
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Esoteric
10/08/2011 01:45 AM (UTC)
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I personally don't care how they write the human Sub-Zero back into the game, I just hope they do it in a convincingly manner with maybe sprucing up some of his move sets such as similar mechanic teleportation move to Scorpion in which leaves a blinking hologram imprint and teleports to the other side of the screen laterally or reappears vertically and flashes into a ice casing of himself real quick before hitting his opponent. The flash of an ice casing would then freeze his opponent, or that cold shoulder x-ray could be an actual move. I also hope they retain Noob Saibot and change his name to something more appealing such as Nightshade or Black Recluse. Noob Saibot sounds like a cyborg prototype or some kind of a new line of super computers. Sareena would be great as well, maybe she can go save Sub-Zero.
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HELLSCORPION2
10/08/2011 03:13 AM (UTC)
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Obreck Wrote:
Well most likely a human form of Sub-Zero will appear in MK10 or at least its sequels. A lot of Sub-Zero's dedicated fanbase would prefer a human version, and the causal masses will expect to see a familiar incarnation on both Scorpion and Sub-Zero to be present in any future MK sequels.

So (and I admit I'm in a weird mood), if it was up to you how would you handle writing in a human Sub-Zero for MK10, or its followups? To give this discussion some variety I've listed a number of scenarios for any one responding to consider:

DISCLAIMER: MAY CONTAIN MK9 SPOILERS AND/OR CONTRIVED WRITING CONCEPTS


Cyber Sub-Zero is resurrected as fully human: Kuai Liang resurrects freed from being a cyborg. Or otherwise frees himself.



Noob gets a split personallity or is redeemed: Noob Saibot's exposure to the soulnado Nightwolf kicked him into caused one of 3 scenarios:

A: He gets stuck with an internal conflict that causes him to shift between Noob and Bi Han at random storywise (Player select allows players to choose which form they want to use, or even a "2-1" type player).

B: He literally is split into 2 separate beings: one being his evil side (Noob) and the other being his good/neutral side (Bi Han).

C: Bi Han is fully purified back to his mortal form (Elder Sub-Zero).



Oldtime Sub-Zero "crosses over" into the new one: One of the 2 Sub-Zeros from the original timeline ends up being pulled into the new timeline.



A new human Sub-Zero is introduced: Someone besides Bi Han and Kuai Liang ends up taking up the mantle of Sub-Zero, or at least the "human" moveset.



No human Sub-Zero in MK10 and sequels: Human Sub-Zero becomes a relic of noncannon cameos and/or Kreate-a-Character scrap material. Story wise in the new timeline, he is only a memory.



Other: Some other idea you have to post.


I've always found B to be acceptable. In fact I think it explains how both Noob Saibot and The Original Sub-Zero were present for UMK3/MKT. I mean I think they split in MK3 by another or even by the same as in 2011.
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Scar_Subby
10/10/2011 01:19 AM (UTC)
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I say just have Sareena realize that he is the brother of the man who helped her earlier in her life and since he(Noob Saibot) is now evil she will help free Kuai Liang from his mind control and then take him to the purification chamber. He then returns to earth and warns the others of Shinnok's coming invasion.
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GlockXIII
10/11/2011 06:16 AM (UTC)
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Human Sub-Zero is coming back no matter what. You need him to advertise the game.

To keep it simple, just have Sareena, Raiden, or whoever revive him.
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Nix Dolores
11/12/2011 03:48 AM (UTC)
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Both Sub-Zeros are dead, so they can just have Bi-Han come back to life because he's still human.
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chadspade
12/09/2011 04:37 AM (UTC)
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I think that a new Sub-Zero should be introduced. He could be introduced as a student of Kuai Liang or Bi-Han who is wanting revenge on the Lin Kuei, Scorpion, and Quan Chi.
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