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Gillbob316
02/16/2015 03:24 PM (UTC)
0
I copy/pasted this from another thread on the exact same topic...

Contrary to popular belief, not every character who died in the early games came back in a meaningful way. Some of their retcons amounted to nothing more than, "Oh... turns out he wasn't dead..."

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I present for your reference... a complete abridged history of death and Resurrection in the Mortal Kombat series... as told by Gillbob316...

Which I have chosen to title: The Netherealm has a revolving backdoor...

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I'm breaking these down with "ish" because many of these stories get told across bios/endings between games... which makes them hard to pin down to one game...

MK1ish:

- Sub-Zero the First gets killed by Scorpion and is resurrected as Noob Saibot, getting a new job working for Shinnok. (Shinnok is an equal opportunity employer of the dead, as we'll learn later).
- Scorpion was already dead from the get-go, neither he nor Noob seem to have much problem being dead however, as they can still seemingly pop in and out of any damn realm they please, and continue to be fully functioning members of the MK Kommunity for years to come.
- Goro was killed by Liu Kang at the end of the tournament (Or so we THOUGHT!)... though rumors persist for years to come that Cage punched Goro in the balls and threw him off a cliff, much to Liu Kang's chagrin.
- Kano is allegedly also killed in the tournament (seems to be a pattern, as we'll go on to see...)

MK2ish:

- Kano turns up alive in Outworld, working for Kahn... or chained up next to Kahn's throne... depending on which day of the week it is.
- Noob and Scorpion are still dead but fully functioning members of the MK Kommunity.

End of MK2-Beginning of MK3ish:

- Cage got killed by Kahn's Extermination Squads and was resurrected after saying, "Huh... Heaven is closed. Guess I'll go be alive again." then jumping back into his apparently undamaged body.
- Mileena got killed by Kitana and popped up no worse for the ware in the Netherealm where she also took a job with Shinnok, who stuck her back in Outworld as a spy. She still got to wear a fashionable pink, and was not forced to wear a dull black uniform like Noob.
- Kano got thrown off a roof by Sonya and is allegedly dead again.
- Noob and Scorpion are still dead but fully functioning members of the MK Kommunity.

End of MK3-Beginning of MK4ish:

- After Kahn's defeat, Cage, now free to go to heaven, still decided to not be dead. Because he rather enjoyed living.
- Mileena, still technically dead, went back to the Netherealm, where she continued working for Shinnok, who again, sent her to invade other realms no worse for the ware.
- Goro pops back up and says, "Nah, I'm not dead... It's cool guys. Why'd you all think I was dead? Cage just punched me in the balls and threw me off a cliff. But I'm over it."
- Baraka may or may not have gotten cut in half by Kung Lao's hat slice fatality and then stapled himself back together. The rumors remain unsubstantiated, but Baraka does sport some conspicuous new decorative staples for this one game.
- Reptile gets "banished" to the Netherealm, where he, like Mileena, gets a job with Shinnok. I'm still not completely clear on where the distinction between Mileena dying to go there and Reptile just getting banished there lies. It seems in MK the Netherealm is hell, and Hell quite literally has a revolving back door... which may or may not be locked due to whims of the writers.
- In the Netherealm, we meet Shinnok's current employee Reiko, who may or may not have also been dead all along (I'm still not completely clear on that... but he was at least thought dead and living in the Netherealm up to this point, we are told)
- I should also mention at this point that Shinnok was banished to the Netherealm all along. Though like Reptile, I don't think he's actually dead. He just... lives there. In semi-retirement. Quan Chi, his vice president, also hangs out there a fair bit, but I don't think he technically has to. He oversees the day to day operations of Shinnok's company, and its several other branches. But eventually, Shinnok gets tired of hanging out in the Netherealm in semi-retirement and decides he wants to stretch his legs... so he throws an employee picnic in Edenia, along with all his dead or banished staff members, new and old.
- Noob and Scorpion are still dead but fully functioning members of the MK Kommunity.

End of MK4-Beginning of MKDAish:

- Jarek seemingly dies after Jax throws him off a cliff.
- Shinnok gets beat up by Liu Kang and is once again "banished" to the Netherealm... but he's cool with it, because that's where all his stuff is anyway.
- Motaro it turns out, saves Kano from getting thrown off a roof with Magic. Kano is once again revealed to not be dead.
- For his trouble, Motaro gets stabbed to death by Sheeva (This won't last) who makes friends with Kano.
- For her trouble, Sheeva gets stabbed to death by Kahn, after Kano betrays her trust, completing the circle of Outworld gratitude
- For all HIS trouble, Kahn then gets killed by the Deadly Alliance, who just don't like him. (This won't last either). Kano, shockingly, remains fine.
- Liu Kang gets his neck snapped by the Deadly Alliance. Shang Tsung eats his soul.
- Goro gets killed by Noob, they even have a funeral this time.
- Kabal is allegedly killed by Mavado, who briefly steals his cool swords.
- Around this point, everyone forgets Mileena and Reptile were ever dead and/or banished to the Netherealm, and the two of them just continue hanging out in Outworld, working for whichever bad guy seems appropriate at the time, as does Shinnok's other former employee Reiko, who we're still not sure was ever dead in the first place.
- Scorpion grabs Quan Chi and sucks him down to the Netherealm and proceeds to torture him. While not technically dead I don't think, Quan Chi still seems very upset about it... as though he's now stuck there... even though he seemed perfectly capable of walking in and out before this, as far as I could tell. Quan Chi has apparently lost his keys to the backdoor.
- Quan Chi makes a new friend in the Netherealm named Drahmin, who I'll note like Scorpion, is also dead but fully functioning when we first meet him. Drahmin's buddy Moloch however, is a Native of the Netherealm, and seems perfectly alive. Drahmin and Moloch help Quan Chi find his spare keys to the backdoor, which he happily unlocks and strolls out of with Moloch and Drahmin.
- Sareena sneaks out the backdoor behind Quan Chi. But despite living in the Netherealm, she's not technically dead either, she's a native like Moloch. A much prettier one.
- Noob and Scorpion, incase you'd forgotten, are still dead but fully functioning members of the MK Kommunity.

End of MKDA-MKDish:

- Frost freezes herself to death, but apparently in the long run, it's not enough to kill her (yes you read that correctly)
- Hsu Hao gets his robot heart ripped out by Jax and dies. No one minds.
- Jax, Sonya, Cage, Kitana & Kung Lao are all killed by the Deadly Alliance and resurrected 10 minutes later by Onaga as his slaves. They all snap out of it in their due time, and are no worse for the ware.
- Onaga, I should mention, has been dead for thousands of years at this point, but apparently all he needed to snap out of it was to have his ghost dupe some guy into bringing him six rocks (which I should note, involved walking in and out of the Netherealm several times), and for Reptile to conveniently be standing near his corpse once he got the rocks.
- I should mention that while he's collecting rocks in the Netherealm, that dupe stumbles upon Sheeva's corpse. She's apparently the only person not important enough to wake up down there after dying... as her corpse gets very little dialogue. But this seemingly confirms her earlier death.
- Later in Outworld, scared that Onaga is now back, Raiden blows himself up in a fit of desperation, alongside Shang Tsung, Quan Chi and Onaga himself. The blast kills Raiden and Shang Tsung. Quan Chi survives because he had the foresight to duck and cover. Onaga survives because he's a badass that way.
- Liu Kang's ghost gets freed from Shang Tsung's body when he gets blown up.
- Kabal, it turns out, got saved from death with magic by Havik, so he comes back, kills Mavado, and takes back his cool swords.
- Shao Kahn shows up alive and well, and we learn it was a very lame clone he never mentioned having before which got killed earlier.
- Goro shows up alive and well, with Kahn, and we learn it was just some shokan who kinda looked like him that got killed earlier, and got to have a cool royal funeral he didn't deserve.
- Within the span of the same game he blew himself up in, Raiden shows up alive again... because gods can do that, but he's kinda emo about the whole ordeal.
- Someone brings Liu Kang's body back to life as a zombie (we later learn it was Raiden in a fit of emo rage)... meanwhile Liu Kang's aforementioned ghost decides to hang out and keep being alive(ish), kinda the same way Johnny Cage's did earlier, because he's kinda upset about his body being a jerk... plus he wants to hang out with the good guys some more. But he can't zap into his body like Cage did, because again, it's a zombie.
- Noob and Scorpion, are still dead but fully functioning members of the MK Kommunity. But Scorpion gets thrown into a Soulnado and finds God, and is reborn again as a Christian. (But is still dead).

End of MKD-Beginning of Armageddonish:

- Onaga gets killed by about 7 different people, who chain their endings together like the third Lord of the Rings movie. But the short version is Shujinko killed Onaga, then Nightwolf sucked Onaga to the Netherealm and left him there... where he was still pseudo-alive, kinda like Mileena was. (Nightwolf, like so many before him, just kinda walked down to the Netherealm to do this, then left mostly no worse for the ware... his soul was a little sinny from all the sins he'd eaten. But he lived.)
- Shang Tsung's ghost gets zapped back to Outworld, where he learns for the first time that he's not allowed to die until Shao Kahn says so. They stick his ghost in a convenient clone body, which they're evidently real good at making by now.
- Shinnok finds Onaga in the Netherealm on his afternoon walk, and decides to make him not dead again so long as he promises to play nice with the other bad guys. Because Shinnok has the master key to the backdoor to the Netherealm, so he can make those calls.
- Ashrah, another not technically dead native of the Netherealm like Moloch and Sareena... grabs hold of a magical floating sword, and rides it all the way out. But the sword is kind of a jerk, and wants her to kill cool guys like Ermac and Noob.
- Around this time we learn that Motaro never really got killed to begin with. Though 2 of his 4 legs didn't get the memo.
- Hsu Hao, Mavado and Jarek, similarly, just show up not dead anymore. No one cares.
- Sheeva on the other hand... who we'd seen dead in the Netherealm before this point... finally seems to catch up with the rest of the cast, and learns that all she has to do is decide not to be dead anymore and walk out of the Netherealm. With renewed purpose... she does so, and continues her life as an evil minion. I assume she was able to because Onaga left the door unlocked.
- Noob and Scorpion are still dead but fully functioning members of the MK Kommunity.

End of MKAish:

- Blaze throws a party, and the entire cast is invited. Everyone from every realm shows up for Blaze's raging party at the pyramid. The living. The dead. The mysteriously absent people who had gone unmentioned for years. Even the dorky kids who no one really liked, like Chameleon and Meat got invites. Because Blaze was cool like that. Shinnok left the door to the Netherealm wide open so that anyone who may or may not have been dead at that point could attend. But everyone gets so super drunk on shots of Fireball that a fight breaks out, and everyone who hasn't died once or twice up to this point gets killed. Those who hadn't yet died finally got a chance to try it. Those who had died before got to do so again. Everyone except for Raiden, Shao Kahn and evidently Shinnok... who took a cue from Shao Kahn, and sent a clone to the party to get killed in his stead, because he's too old for fireball shots, and didn't want to get into it with all the drunks. Even though that doesn't really matter, because Kahn gets SO drunk... he blows up the universe anyway, then goes crazy. But not before Raiden sends a memo to himself in the past to try to avoid this party in the future, because things really got out of hand.

That's right... EVERYONE died except for Kahn... who went crazy. Including Noob and Scorpion. Who re-died. Finally.

MK9ish:

Past Raiden gets the memo from Future Raiden, but in his vague quest to stop the pyramid party from ever taking place, many more lives are lost, including a couple Sub-Zeros, Kung Lao, Shang Tsung, Shao Kahn, Jax, Jade, Stryker, Nightwolf, Kitana, Kabal, Sindel, Smoke, Liu Kang... and possibly some other people I'm forgetting. I won't bore you with more details, because it's all still pretty fresh in our minds. Most of them end up in the Netherealm, which as we all know by now bodes well for their return, as all it takes to get out of there is a brief period of employment with Shinnok, and then a trip out the back door.

Which evidently a few of them will get because...

MKX:

Kitana, Kung Lao, At least one of those Sub-Zeros, and probably a few other people are alive and well again, no worse for the ware.

Oh, but Hsu Hao has already died again in the comic. But who cares about him. Really.

The End?

PS. If I missed anyone, feel free to call me a Noob with no understanding of the story and no clue. I was combing old bios and endings as I wrote this, and trying to be as thorough as I could, but I admit, it's entirely possible a few deaths and resurrections may have escaped my notice.

So lets see... Cage, Mileena, Kano, Goro, Noob and Scorpion all died in the Pre-3D era, with varying degrees of severity. Some of them a couple times.

In MK4 lots of people were already in, or ended up in and out of the Netherealm through various degrees of death and banishment, including Noob, Mileena, Reptile, Shinnok, Reiko, Quan Chi, Scorpion... etc.

Deadly Alliance was where we started killing guys off in background story a lot. Motaro, Sheeva, Kahn, Liu Kang, Goro...

Deception continued the trend with Kung Lao, Kitana, Jax, Cage Again, Sonya and Shang Tsung, among others...

None of it lasted, as by Armageddon, everyone was alive again with varying degrees of detail put into their resurrections.

And along the way, lots of other people while not technically dead strolled in and out of the Netherealm, including Quan Chi, Shujinko, Nightwolf, Sareena, Moloch, Ashrah, Shinnok... and others.

...

Oh, also... around MK2... a whole bunch of characters may or may not have died one more time, depending upon whether you do or don't believe Shaolin Monks was canon. But lets not get into that. It will just make our heads hurt.

To sum up: Where the line between death and the Netherealm lies in MK has always been a complete and utter blur. And that is the long and short of it. All that dying seems to do is send someone to the Heavens or the Netherealm, and since in MK The Heavens and The Netherealm are just two more realms... those people are perfectly capable of walking right back out of them, should circumstances allow for it.

The stakes of these games have never been life and death of individuals, but the survival of independent realms themselves. Earthrealm is what's at stake. Edenia is what's at stake. The Heavens are what's at stake. The board is what's being contested in these games... the players, like chess, can be killed and brought back as needed as the games start and finish.
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DjangoDrag
02/16/2015 03:43 PM (UTC)
0
sharefrock Wrote:
DjangoDrag Wrote:
@Sharefrock

By your own condecending logic, you must still have only two brain cells because death has been treated the same in MK since the 90's. You stopped reading comics because of a certain reason that you have ignored for decades in MK? Kay.

You really just admitted to being either an illogical fanboy or a hypocrite. It's fine that you are those things, as long as you're aware of it.


First I hate it when forums are filled with 3 year old kids like you who can't type right.

It's condescending, not condecending.

second of all, no need to get all hostile, I specifically said "In my opinion" because I know there are a lot of kids like you out there who start crying when someone disagrees with them.

I'm a fan of mortal kombat but not a fanboy because that requires someone like you, someone who doesn't have two brain cells to rub together.

I'm sorry because I don't just accept the shit that's handed to me, if I see something wrong I point it out.

Unlike you, I even have a strange feeling that you'd eat shit as long as it's given to you by someone you love.

I didn't want to take this argument in an aggressive manner but since you seem to be hostile towards me for some reason, I'm not going to stand down and just let you talk trash like that.

Playing MK and being Invested in the story are two different things.

there is gameplay and there is story.

I was interested in MK1-MK4 story but then when Mileena was brought back I was a little worried. I still wanted to know what happens next but I wasn't really that interested.

I love MK it's a great fighting game.

doesn't mean I have to like the story or ignore things that are obviously wrong in it.

I just pointed it out that I think the story could be a lot better if they had those character sit at least one game out or maybe change something in their appearance or gameplay.

Dunno why you got mad about that though... It seems you are truly a person who doesn't have two brain cells to rub together...


What's with you and rubbing your brain cells?

And don't try to missdirect the subject by pointing out a spelling error. Especially when you are starting a new paragraph with every other sentence. Pots and kettles, friend.

Why would I be mad? Why are you saying I'm attacking you? You addressed me saying that comic fans are unintelligent. Again, pots and kettles. Im noticing a pattern here. MK is and always has been a comic book where the story is concerned. If you think comic fans are unintelligent then by your logic MK fans must be the same. That includes you.

And dont try to backpedal now saying that you only care about gameplay at this point. If you did you wouldnt be in this thread or even on MKO.

At least be honest with yourself, big guy.

Avatar
sharefrock
02/16/2015 03:55 PM (UTC)
0
DjangoDrag Wrote:
sharefrock Wrote:
DjangoDrag Wrote:
@Sharefrock

By your own condecending logic, you must still have only two brain cells because death has been treated the same in MK since the 90's. You stopped reading comics because of a certain reason that you have ignored for decades in MK? Kay.

You really just admitted to being either an illogical fanboy or a hypocrite. It's fine that you are those things, as long as you're aware of it.


First I hate it when forums are filled with 3 year old kids like you who can't type right.

It's condescending, not condecending.

second of all, no need to get all hostile, I specifically said "In my opinion" because I know there are a lot of kids like you out there who start crying when someone disagrees with them.

I'm a fan of mortal kombat but not a fanboy because that requires someone like you, someone who doesn't have two brain cells to rub together.

I'm sorry because I don't just accept the shit that's handed to me, if I see something wrong I point it out.

Unlike you, I even have a strange feeling that you'd eat shit as long as it's given to you by someone you love.

I didn't want to take this argument in an aggressive manner but since you seem to be hostile towards me for some reason, I'm not going to stand down and just let you talk trash like that.

Playing MK and being Invested in the story are two different things.

there is gameplay and there is story.

I was interested in MK1-MK4 story but then when Mileena was brought back I was a little worried. I still wanted to know what happens next but I wasn't really that interested.

I love MK it's a great fighting game.

doesn't mean I have to like the story or ignore things that are obviously wrong in it.

I just pointed it out that I think the story could be a lot better if they had those character sit at least one game out or maybe change something in their appearance or gameplay.

Dunno why you got mad about that though... It seems you are truly a person who doesn't have two brain cells to rub together...


What's with you and rubbing your brain cells?

And don't try to missdirect the subject by pointing out a spelling error. Especially when you are starting a new paragraph with every other sentence. Pots and kettles, friend.

Why would I be mad? Why are you saying I'm attacking you? You addressed me saying that comic fans are unintelligent. Again, pots and kettles. Im noticing a pattern here. MK is and always has been a comic book where the story is concerned. If you think comic fans are intelligent, then by your logic MK fans must be the same. That includes you.

And dont try to backpedal now saying that you only care about gameplay at this point. If you did you wouldnt be in this thread or even on MKO.

At least be honest with yourself, big guy.



Funny how you ignored most of my points and just straight up went to what you can reply to.

Even though your replies are pathetic.

I start a new paragraph with every other sentence, because I feel like I have to talk to a kid in such a manner so they can understand better.

And because you decided to ignore most of my points like when I said I was interested and invested in the story up until MK4 and then I was like mehh.

But I never said that I didn't want to know what happens next.

I specifically said I wanted to know what happens next and I still want to.

Which again brings me back to my point.

Not everybody is like you "Big boy", I like most people like to point out things that are wrong, even if it's something In a game that I love and adore like MK.

I really feel sad for you, because your life must be really hard.

Just accepting shit as long as it's handed to you by people you love.

I also never said Comic Book fans are unintelligent.

So either you are an illiterate or you have the wrong address, buddy.

I read comic books, but I don't read comic books I don't find myself invested in.

I said I don't read Superhero comics, because they are usually filled with meaningless deaths.

There are great comic books out, there so I don't know where you got the whole "Comic Book fans are unintelligent".

It's really sad that with every word you say you prove you are more of a child.

it's just sad... confused
Avatar
Gillbob316
02/16/2015 03:57 PM (UTC)
0
I'd just like to throw in two more cents and say MK's story is absolutely similar to a comic book. It involves death, resurrection, colorful characters with costumes and super powers, and even a huge time travel retcon.

This stuff is the bread and butter of comic books. MK is basically X-Men if it were a martial arts themed fighting game.
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sharefrock
02/16/2015 04:00 PM (UTC)
0
Gillbob316 Wrote:
I'd just like to throw in two more cents and say MK's story is absolutely similar to a comic book. It involves death, resurrection, colorful characters with costumes and super powers, and even a huge time travel retcon.

This stuff is the bread and butter of comic books. MK is basically X-Men if it were a martial arts themed fighting game.


Was not really always like that, but I get your point.

Right now it does really feel like that.
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DjangoDrag
02/16/2015 04:26 PM (UTC)
0
sharefrock Wrote:
DjangoDrag Wrote:
It's basic comic book logic. If Superman dies he likely wont stay that way. Its been like that for decades and is far from exclusive to MK.

People have this exact argument about characters like Professor X and Wolverine dying. I hate bitching about shit, so I'm of the mentality that a character isn't killed to get rid of that character. A character is killed to create new stories.

If you don't like that perpective, that's cool. But expect to be unhappy with comics/MK a LOT.


I stopped reading superhero comics a long long time ago. when I grew two brain cells.

meaning I stopped reading them at the age of 5.



Saying that you stopped reading superhero comics because you "grew two brain cells" is the same as saying that people who read them are unintelligent. I was paraphrasing.

Also, MK is a superhero comic in gameplay form. Always has been. ESPECIALLY MK 1 - 4.

And I didnt mention most of what you said because it was mostly you calling me kid or saying you feel bad for me or saying I'd eat shit. A whole lot of immature and pointless babbling.

Im honestly done with this back and forth. I cant take someone seriously who continues to try to belittle the oposing argument by calling that person a kid. It's immature, irrelevant, and pointless to a debate. Not to mention that it's the most cliche of missdirections at this point.

Its funny though how you got so worked up because I was being "hostile" and "mad" and "attacking you." You started this exchange. And started it by saying that superhero fans have few brain cells. I wonder why somone might get annoyed when they are accused of being unintelligent unprovoked. It's even more annoying when the person saying that is a hypocrite.
Avatar
sharefrock
02/16/2015 04:35 PM (UTC)
0
DjangoDrag Wrote:
sharefrock Wrote:
DjangoDrag Wrote:
It's basic comic book logic. If Superman dies he likely wont stay that way. Its been like that for decades and is far from exclusive to MK.

People have this exact argument about characters like Professor X and Wolverine dying. I hate bitching about shit, so I'm of the mentality that a character isn't killed to get rid of that character. A character is killed to create new stories.

If you don't like that perpective, that's cool. But expect to be unhappy with comics/MK a LOT.


I stopped reading superhero comics a long long time ago. when I grew two brain cells.

meaning I stopped reading them at the age of 5.



Saying that you stopped reading superhero comics because you "grew two brain cells" is the same as saying that people who read them are unintelligent. I was paraphrasing.

Also, MK is a superhero comic in gameplay form. Always has been. ESPECIALLY MK 1 - 4.

And I didnt mention most of what you said because it was mostly you calling me kid or saying you feel bad for me or saying I'd eat shit. A whole lot of immature and pointless babbling.

Im honestly done with this back and forth. I cant take someone seriously who continues to try to belittle the oposing argument by calling that person a kid. It's immature, irrelevant, and pointless to a debate. Not to mention that it's the most cliche of missdirections at this point.

Its funny though how you got so worked up because I was being "hostile" and "mad" and "attacking you." You started this exchange. And started it by saying that superhero fans have few brain cells. I wonder why somone might get annoyed when they are accused of being unintelligent unprovoked. It's even more annoying when the person saying that is a hypocrite.


I never got worked up about anything.

Pointing out that you were being hostile in you reply is not being worked out buddy.

being worked out is someone assuming that I said something that I didn't.

I just pointed out the truth in this whole argument and what I learned about you from it.

A cry baby who gets upset when someone disagrees with their opinion and instantly assume that person said something bad about them even though he clearly didn't.

Ohhh and the best thing I learned about you is that your willing to eat shit as long as it's by someone you love.

I didn't have a quarrel with you but Reptile you just wanted to tear my flesh, unfortunately your teeth were no match for my skin.

I'm done with you, because it really does seem you are a kid(Just pointing out the obvious grin )
Avatar
DjangoDrag
02/16/2015 04:53 PM (UTC)
0
sharefrock Wrote:
DjangoDrag Wrote:
sharefrock Wrote:
DjangoDrag Wrote:
It's basic comic book logic. If Superman dies he likely wont stay that way. Its been like that for decades and is far from exclusive to MK.

People have this exact argument about characters like Professor X and Wolverine dying. I hate bitching about shit, so I'm of the mentality that a character isn't killed to get rid of that character. A character is killed to create new stories.

If you don't like that perpective, that's cool. But expect to be unhappy with comics/MK a LOT.


I stopped reading superhero comics a long long time ago. when I grew two brain cells.

meaning I stopped reading them at the age of 5.



Saying that you stopped reading superhero comics because you "grew two brain cells" is the same as saying that people who read them are unintelligent. I was paraphrasing.

Also, MK is a superhero comic in gameplay form. Always has been. ESPECIALLY MK 1 - 4.

And I didnt mention most of what you said because it was mostly you calling me kid or saying you feel bad for me or saying I'd eat shit. A whole lot of immature and pointless babbling.

Im honestly done with this back and forth. I cant take someone seriously who continues to try to belittle the oposing argument by calling that person a kid. It's immature, irrelevant, and pointless to a debate. Not to mention that it's the most cliche of missdirections at this point.

Its funny though how you got so worked up because I was being "hostile" and "mad" and "attacking you." You started this exchange. And started it by saying that superhero fans have few brain cells. I wonder why somone might get annoyed when they are accused of being unintelligent unprovoked. It's even more annoying when the person saying that is a hypocrite.


I never got worked up about anything.

Pointing out that you were being hostile in you reply is not being worked out buddy.

being worked out is someone assuming that I said something that I didn't.

I just pointed out the truth in this whole argument and what I learned about you from it.

A cry baby who gets upset when someone disagrees with their opinion and instantly assume that person said something bad about them even though he clearly didn't.

Ohhh and the best thing I learned about you is that your willing to eat shit as long as it's by someone you love.

I didn't have a quarrel with you but Reptile you just wanted to tear my flesh, unfortunately your teeth were no match for my skin.

I'm done with you, because it really does seem you are a kid(Just pointing out the obvious grin )


Actually, I will say one more thing.

When did I ever say that I liked or was even happy with MK's story? You talk about me assuming things, yet here you are being a hypocrite again. You are quite presumptuous.
Avatar
Gillbob316
02/16/2015 04:54 PM (UTC)
0
sharefrock Wrote:
Gillbob316 Wrote:
I'd just like to throw in two more cents and say MK's story is absolutely similar to a comic book. It involves death, resurrection, colorful characters with costumes and super powers, and even a huge time travel retcon.

This stuff is the bread and butter of comic books. MK is basically X-Men if it were a martial arts themed fighting game.


Was not really always like that, but I get your point.

Right now it does really feel like that.


It kinda was. That was the whole point of my first post.

People act as if Scorpion and Noob are the only characters who ever died in the 2D games. That's nonsense.

At a minimum, three of the ten characters in MK1 were allegedly dead when the first tournament ended, and one of the remaining 7, Scorpion, was dead from the get go.

A few more died between MK2 and MK3. Mileena was technically dead from the end of MK2 til MKA, and no one has ever given two craps about it.

Technically we didn't even KNOW Bi-Han had a "meaningful" resurrection until MKD. We knew he died, then he made a return appearance in MKT (only later proven non-canon). But as far as we knew for six games Noob was a completely separate character.

Just because characters like Goro or Khan are later revealed NOT to have died, that doesn't mean we as outside observers aren't led to believe they did for anywhere between like one half to four games, at times. It's still a form of cheap retcon resurrection.

Yes, it absolutely got more frequent as the cast grew bigger, but it was always there.
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DG1OA
02/16/2015 04:58 PM (UTC)
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Death could matter in the MK universe, if people were okay with the dead characters being only on the roster as non-canon ones like Human Smoke in UMK3/MKT, but no, they not only have to come back exactly as they were prior to death, but be part of the story, too. I don't see why that is necessary, as the likes Kitana and Kung Lao will almost inevitably return anyway, so roster slots would go to them, whether they'd be canonically involved or not.

With that said, the deaths of minor/secondary characters like Kotal's dad will stick, because tell me: who is clamoring for Daddy Kotal to appear as a playable character? The likes of Hsu Hao and Motaro will probably stay dead until the next compilation game where they might not even be involved in the story anyway, just like what I suggested above for dead major characters.
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sharefrock
02/16/2015 05:03 PM (UTC)
0
Gillbob316 Wrote:
sharefrock Wrote:
Gillbob316 Wrote:
I'd just like to throw in two more cents and say MK's story is absolutely similar to a comic book. It involves death, resurrection, colorful characters with costumes and super powers, and even a huge time travel retcon.

This stuff is the bread and butter of comic books. MK is basically X-Men if it were a martial arts themed fighting game.


Was not really always like that, but I get your point.

Right now it does really feel like that.


It kinda was. That was the whole point of my first post.

People act as if Scorpion and Noob are the only characters who ever died in the 2D games. That's nonsense.

At a minimum, three of the ten characters in MK1 were allegedly dead when the first tournament ended, and one of the remaining 7, Scorpion, was dead from the get go.

A few more died between MK2 and MK3. Mileena was technically dead from the end of MK2 til MKA, and no one has ever given two craps about it.

Technically we didn't even KNOW Bi-Han had a "meaningful" resurrection until MKD. We knew he died, then he made a return appearance in MKT (only later proven non-canon). But as far as we knew for six games Noob was a completely separate character.

Just because characters like Goro or Khan are later revealed NOT to have died, that doesn't mean we as outside observers aren't led to believe they did for anywhere between like one half to four games, at times. It's still a form of cheap retcon resurrection.

Yes, it absolutely got more frequent as the cast grew bigger, but it was always there.


I understand what you mean, but for me at least it didn't feel like there is resurrections left and right.

even though there were characters presumed dead and stuff like that, they always had some way to explain it.

E.g When Goro returned in trilogy we got the explanation that he faked his death and was in hiding until he came back again.

They didn't just have that poor excuse of "miraculously restored to life" or whatever was the explanation at the start of print Issue #2.

I must admit, I do have to wait and see the full story maybe they will explain it in a way that it makes sense.

although I doubt it, I bet it'll be something like what they said on the start of print issue #2.

Ohhhh look they are back.

Why?

Doesn't matter...
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WeaponTheory
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About Me

"BEER ME!" - Noob Saibot

02/16/2015 05:21 PM (UTC)
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sharefrock Wrote:
Now with Jax and Sonya coming back this shit will suck ass(Storywise).

Why bring Sonya when you already have her daughter?


Story wise:
Because Sonya unlike most people is the few people that lived at the end of MK9. That's why she's going to be in the story. The game doesn't take place 25 years after MK9 where it could make sense to remove Sonya out of the game completely, slap Cassie in the game, and ignore whatever the fuck happen after MK9 other than "Johnny and Sonya had sex".
But no, the game takes place right after MK9, so whatever happen to Sonya and Johnny Cage MUST be known then and beyond after that. Again, that's why she's going to be in the story.

Gameplay wise:
You should know better than to compare the two by now.
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Denizen
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02/16/2015 05:55 PM (UTC)
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Indeed, the story will always be not taken seriously, as I have said before, characters coming back to life and death becoming meaningless don't necessarily have to be the same thing, it's all about the stakes.
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Onaga
02/16/2015 05:57 PM (UTC)
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akuaaron Wrote:
Well I think its just stupid, why have story mode, and call it as being an epic block buster, I mean imagine if no death in game of thrones mattered?

Its the same thing...Its fucking dumb NRS need to grow up.

We already have the classics, when they announced everyone upto that OP piece of shit kung lao, I thought they were stickin to the guns an leaving the mk9 dead, then KL an kitana came out...so....wtf...


an the way things are shapping up with mileena, baraka would have been far more interesting than fucking jax, sonya, kung lao or kitana....ANd dont even get me started on bringing that worthlessly bland sack of shit liu kang back...why? Just why? hahaha



You do realize even if this game had focused on Shinnok and the Netherrealm invasion, those who died would be back in the roster right? They would likely be undead or have some hellish makeover, but they would be back. They never intended to go a game without Sub-Zero and Kitana.

And if you thought that was the case then you sir are in serious need of a reality check.
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sharefrock
02/16/2015 06:12 PM (UTC)
0
WeaponTheory Wrote:
sharefrock Wrote:
Now with Jax and Sonya coming back this shit will suck ass(Storywise).

Why bring Sonya when you already have her daughter?


Story wise:
Because Sonya unlike most people is the few people that lived at the end of MK9. That's why she's going to be in the story. The game doesn't take place 25 years after MK9 where it could make sense to remove Sonya out of the game completely, slap Cassie in the game, and ignore whatever the fuck happen after MK9 other than "Johnny and Sonya had sex".
But no, the game takes place right after MK9, so whatever happen to Sonya and Johnny Cage MUST be known then and beyond after that. Again, that's why she's going to be in the story.

Gameplay wise:
You should know better than to compare the two by now.


Agreed.

She should be in the story, It would be very weird and it will feel like there is something missing if Sonya and Johnny cage were not in the story.

This is also true for Drahmin/Havik/Mavado/Hotaru/Fujin/Tanya/Reiko/Jarek/Kano and that blade guy that appeared in MKD.

I know he is called Darrius but who cares.

What you said is true for all the characters that were involved in the story going 25 years forward meaning Shujinko/Ashrah should be there as well.

But that's not what I meant, There should be in the story no doubt about that.

Gameplay on the other hand, they are unnecessary.

And it's not because I hate these characters, Sonya is one of my mains in MK9.

Jax and Johnny are both characters I like a lot, especially their personality.

But I just don't feel like they should be in MKX, I don't want them to disappear forever, because these characters are timeless.

Give them some time, let us miss them. why bring them back sooooo soon into the gameplay?

I didn't say Cassie Plays like Sonya, I said we already have Cassie in the roster which reminds me a lot of Sonya and Johnny.

She might not have the exact same moves but I just think of her the same way I think of Sonya.

It's all just personal opinion, but I think this "Next Gen" game needs Next Gen characters taking a lot of the spots.

Denizen Wrote:
Indeed, the story will always be not taken seriously, as I have said before, characters coming back to life and death becoming meaningless don't necessarily have to be the same thing, it's all about the stakes.


Could you please tell me those stakes?

I mean what can netherrealm studios tell us next that will make us feel a sense of threat?

Death at this point is like a roller coaster ride, Enter here, Exist here and enjoy your day.

I don't know man... you might be right. there can be stakes I guess but I just can't think of any to be honest.
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Gillbob316
02/16/2015 07:29 PM (UTC)
0
Gillbob316 Wrote:

The stakes of these games have never been life and death of individuals, but the survival of independent realms themselves. Earthrealm is what's at stake. Edenia is what's at stake. The Heavens are what's at stake. The board is what's being contested in these games... the players, like chess, can be killed and brought back as needed as the games start and finish.
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Spider804
02/16/2015 07:33 PM (UTC)
0
First it's a comic book, then it's chess

Oh my God Chess Kombat makes sense now
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Gillbob316
02/16/2015 09:06 PM (UTC)
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Spider804 Wrote:
First it's a comic book, then it's chess

Oh my God Chess Kombat makes sense now


It really does!
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WeaponTheory
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"BEER ME!" - Noob Saibot

02/16/2015 09:31 PM (UTC)
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I had an interesting theory about the return of Kitana and Kung Lao and how death could matter this time.

Since there has been another Kung Lao in the past with the same name, I thought maybe there could be another somewhere and came out of hiding. Kung Lao would be so of a "title". Basically the Yoshimitsu of Mortal Kombat.

As for Kitana...there had been clones of her...although design wise, they all look like Mileena. But what if one of the Kitana clones burst out of the test tubes, no hybrid of anything. Remembering her identity. Basically as if the real Kitana never died. Raiden debriefs her of the events that recently happen including the death of her friend.

But then the return of Jax fucked that theory all up...unless Jax impregnated his girlfriend or wife right before his departure to Shang Tsung's island. Even though the look of metallic arms could symbolize Jax in the Tower, but I really don't see Jax in there.
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sharefrock
02/16/2015 09:37 PM (UTC)
0
WeaponTheory Wrote:
I had an interesting theory about the return of Kitana and Kung Lao and how death could matter this time.

Since there has been another Kung Lao in the past with the same name, I thought maybe there could be another somewhere and came out of hiding. Kung Lao would be so of a "title". Basically the Yoshimitsu of Mortal Kombat.

As for Kitana...there had been clones of her...although design wise, they all look like Mileena. But what if one of the Kitana clones burst out of the test tubes, no hybrid of anything. Remembering her identity. Basically as if the real Kitana never died. Raiden debriefs her of the events that recently happen including the death of her friend.

But then the return of Jax fucked that theory all up...unless Jax impregnated his girlfriend or wife right before his departure to Shang Tsung's island. Even though the look of metallic arms could symbolize Jax in the Tower, but I really don't see Jax in there.


Why are you not a writer at NRS?
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Gillbob316
02/16/2015 10:07 PM (UTC)
0
sharefrock Wrote:
WeaponTheory Wrote:
I had an interesting theory about the return of Kitana and Kung Lao and how death could matter this time.

Since there has been another Kung Lao in the past with the same name, I thought maybe there could be another somewhere and came out of hiding. Kung Lao would be so of a "title". Basically the Yoshimitsu of Mortal Kombat.

As for Kitana...there had been clones of her...although design wise, they all look like Mileena. But what if one of the Kitana clones burst out of the test tubes, no hybrid of anything. Remembering her identity. Basically as if the real Kitana never died. Raiden debriefs her of the events that recently happen including the death of her friend.

But then the return of Jax fucked that theory all up...unless Jax impregnated his girlfriend or wife right before his departure to Shang Tsung's island. Even though the look of metallic arms could symbolize Jax in the Tower, but I really don't see Jax in there.


Why are you not a writer at NRS?


The first one is exactly what they did with Sub-Zero. He died and then his relative with the same name and the exact same moves showed up, confusing casual fans for years.

The second one is essentially just a new twist on the clone BS...

Shao Khan died, oops it was a clone.
Shinnok died, oops it was a clone.
Shang Tsung died, they put his ghost into a clone body.

But this time the idea is to actually make the clone the MAIN Kitana!? And like, pretend she's the same? And you think that's GOOD idea!?

Meanwhile, Kitana prime is in the afterlife (which is well established as existing in MK) going dafuq?

She'd be essentially a new character like Mileena, more than she'd be Kitana. That's silly.

Consequently that's also the premise of the season two premiere of the venture brothers, and while it works in a comedy, it feels a little dumb here.

You're acting like the act of sidestepping an actual death and resurrection automatically makes it a better story. In a canon where death and resurrection have already proven to be possible.

We do not need extra Kung Laos and Kitanas running around. That is not a better solution.
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sharefrock
02/16/2015 10:28 PM (UTC)
0
Gillbob316 Wrote:
sharefrock Wrote:
WeaponTheory Wrote:
I had an interesting theory about the return of Kitana and Kung Lao and how death could matter this time.

Since there has been another Kung Lao in the past with the same name, I thought maybe there could be another somewhere and came out of hiding. Kung Lao would be so of a "title". Basically the Yoshimitsu of Mortal Kombat.

As for Kitana...there had been clones of her...although design wise, they all look like Mileena. But what if one of the Kitana clones burst out of the test tubes, no hybrid of anything. Remembering her identity. Basically as if the real Kitana never died. Raiden debriefs her of the events that recently happen including the death of her friend.

But then the return of Jax fucked that theory all up...unless Jax impregnated his girlfriend or wife right before his departure to Shang Tsung's island. Even though the look of metallic arms could symbolize Jax in the Tower, but I really don't see Jax in there.


Why are you not a writer at NRS?


The first one is exactly what they did with Sub-Zero. He died and then his relative with the same name and the exact same moves showed up, confusing casual fans for years.

The second one is essentially just a new twist on the clone BS...

Shao Khan died, oops it was a clone.
Shinnok died, oops it was a clone.
Shang Tsung died, they put his ghost into a clone body.

But this time the idea is to actually make the clone the MAIN Kitana!? And like, pretend she's the same? And you think that's GOOD idea!?

Meanwhile, Kitana prime is in the afterlife (which is well established as existing in MK) going dafuq?

She'd be essentially a new character like Mileena, more than she'd be Kitana. That's silly.

Consequently that's also the premise of the season two premiere of the venture brothers, and while it works in a comedy, it feels a little dumb here.

You're acting like the act of sidestepping an actual death and resurrection automatically makes it a better story. In a canon where death and resurrection have already proven to be possible.

We do not need extra Kung Laos and Kitanas running around. That is not a better solution.


Why ohhh Why are you not a writer at WB?
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Brady_Got_Caged
02/16/2015 10:43 PM (UTC)
0
The only characters I feel are ressurected are Kitana, Kung Lao, Liu Kang, Bi- Han, and Jax. I believe everyone else who died in the last game is going to miss this game. All these deaths and revives are really fucking up the story for me. There is no risk.
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KenshiMaster16
02/16/2015 10:53 PM (UTC)
0
NRS needs to make death matter more in the franchise. Using excuses for characters to come back is okay, as long as it 1) makes sense for the story and 2) isn't used again for the same characters. Once is enough.

Case in point; a shit ton of characters died in MK9. In MKX we see a few of them come back, likely starting off as revenants. That's fine and completely flows with the story of the Netherrealm War. Of course Shinnok and Quan Chi would want to use the fallen warriors of Earthrealm as revenants against the still surviving fighters. That's great. Works well with story progression, works well with character development for the characters still alive who has ties to those that died. Could be great. Do they obviously come up with some reason for some of those characters to come back to the realm of the living? Obviously they do. Will it make sense? I hope so and I hope Quan Chi does his damnedest to cling to as many souls as he can (which he obviously does since only a few get a second chance at living).

Do I want to see that storyline come back for the other dead characters? No. Once is enough. Do I want Shao Kahn to come back somehow? No. He fucked with the Elder Gods, they should make that the ultimate no-no and put some weight and consequences behind his actions. The story needs more depth and more than anything else, it needs more cohesion. If they're gonna go the route of the ending of MK9 then they need to stick with it. Expand upon it.

Every character who dies or comes back to life should have a valid, well-explained reason behind it. But the ultimate no-no will be if they start abusing those reasons and that's the biggest thing I fear for the MK story at the moment. If they're truly going the extra mile to bring in new generations of fighters then it's okay to 'lighten the load of characters' so to speak. After all, there are dozens of ways to bring back characters but using the same old excuses time and time again? Please, even us fans can write better fan fiction than that nonsense. Hell some of us literally did just to make sense of it all. For those who are unaware of what I'm speaking of, go search for ProudNintendofan's MK Armageddon bios. Some great ideas in that bunch.
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daryui
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About Me
02/16/2015 11:02 PM (UTC)
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Quan Chi did die in Raiden's explosion.

There's even a backwards message like 'Will Shang Tsung and Quan Chi return from the dead? Time will tell.'

Plus Shang's MKA bio where their souls intertwined which corrupted Raiden.

For MKX, I imagine Shinnok releasing some of them because Quan Chi is like fuck you, Amulet is mine.
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