Two things....why get rid of all those characters on the basis of them being tired and played out, then you want to replace them with characters of the exact same race?

My second thing....no hybrid races; that just makes me quiver.

You're basically asking for almost every single character to be gone. No, no, no...

I feel that this next game should feature more about these races about why the Shokans and the Centaurs are at war. What's the deal with the vampires, and exactly how Reptile's race got rid of.

why not have characters evolve. music, movies, and games are constantly changing for better or for worse. aren't you tired of baraka doing his spark move or scorpions spear or even nitara's blood spit. i'd feel much better if old characters get an massive update in moves and an overhaul in the story department. if not change why have them. is it because of the fan's or the mk team.

hybrids are neat so why not have them look at comics for instance. jean grey turns into the pheonix adding massive power and her overall look changes. look at resident evil for instance the 1st game was scary at first but when they made re4 it changed the series for good not the bad in my opinion.

mk does not seem like it's changing it's gameplay to much since it came out back in 1992. mk4 was very similar to mkda because of the whole thing about the weapons and fighting hand to hand.

since mkd we had multi tier levels as an upgrade to the past games and mka adding create a fighter but the core of fighting has not changed much and i feel could be vastly improved in mk9.

i like mk but i want new characters, arena's, story's and improve apon classic characters.

Technically we already have hybrids in the shokan. I remember them being half-dragon, half-man. And Kintaro throws some tiger into the mix somehow.

The problem with getting rid of some of these races is the same problem I feel comes up with a number of other things people want to get rid of (realms being the most common). We can't get rid of them because we've already opened the can of worms. To say they just blinked out and never affected the story again seems kind of cheap.

And sure, characters and races can evolve in a certain sense. Reptile even managed to do this literally. But you can't change the things about the race that we know on a basic level. The only reason Reptile was able to do what we saw him do was because we knew from the beginning that what we saw was a disguise.

Another problem with getting rid of characters and replacing them with something roughly similar, all in the name of keeping things fresh, is that you're just doing it for the freshness and it seems forced.

Besides, how exactly were you hoping for people like Drahmin or Scorpion to be "revamped"? Being an oni tormentor, we're lucky Drahmin is wearing as much as he is. And Scorpion, well, he was formed to wear a mockery of the Lin Kuei uniform. I don't know if he's capable of wearing anything too different.

Speaking seriously on the topic of hybrids, I just can't think of a good reason to do it. To me it just seems like last ditch effort crap writing for when you've run out of real ideas. After all, genetically speaking, it isn't always possible.

Two things on this subject: 1.) How is Jean Grey becoming the Phoenix anything resembling a hybrid? She's being possessed by a super-powered entity. 2.) Vampires are undead, look it up.

You mention severely overhauling the movesets and such for older characters, though I'd count Nitara as a newer character, but I'll again say that you shouldn't change for the sake of change. Take away Scorpion's spear and you have actually taken away something that is a part of his character, storyline, and overall mythos. And for people like Baraka, he's not supposed to have any real mystical powers, so how do you give him a projectile other than the spark without shooting his blades completely out of his arms, which I imagine would be very painful, if not fatal? I'd say something similar about Nitara, who I don't think we've seen enough times to get tired of, but, again, there's nothing about her nature that really allows her another projectile, which is a basic part of MK.

In closing, since this has gone longer than I originally thought it would, change is one thing, but changing or replacing core portions of characters or the story of MK merely for the sake of keeping things fresh is not a good thing.

Acidslayer, I am so appalled by what i read in your initial post I don't even know where to begin.

Let's start with the most egregious thing you said. "Aren't you tired of Baraka's blade spark or Scorpion's spear?". Ummm....how can I put this delicately? HELL NO! Those are two of the defining moves of their arsenals. Scorpion's spear is one of the most famous moves in all of video games. No I am not tired of those moves. I would be rather upset if they didn't have them. As far as Nitara, I don't care if she ever returns.

I am getting ready to buy Street Fighter 4. Are you tired of Ryu, Ken, and Akuma shooting hadokens? Bison's psycho crusher? Guile's sonic boom? Those moves define the characters. If you are actually tired of Scorpion's spear I don't think you should be playing mk anymore.

When you say you want improved older characters I can agree to the extent that I want the old characters to get new moves and upgrade in addition to their old moves. I am disappointed in mk vs dc that Scorpion lost his fire kick move from mkda for instance.

I like character progression as well. Sub Zero went from being a mere warrior in mk2, to leaving the Lin Kuei, to taking it over and becoming grand master and reforming the clan. Character progression. I liked Scorpion becoming the Elder god's champion. I thought it had potential. Those aren't revamps though.

Secondly you said that the gameplay hasn't changed much in mk since 1992. That is wrong. Not an opinion, just factually wrong. Mk 1-4 had similar game play engines. The old engine was scrapped and a completely new game engine was introduced in mkda, mkd, and mka. We now have a new engine in mk vs dc.

The one thing mk has always done compared to other fighting game series like Street Fighter, Soul Calibur, Tekken, and Vf is to always change the gameplay. The other fighting game series I mentioned, for better or worse always have the exact same engine in every game. They have good engines so why change. Under Ed Boon's leadership the mk series has never been afraid of change or innovation.

Yes as you mentioned mk4 had weapons and so did mkda. The weapons were a gimmick in mk4, but in mkda they were actually integrated into the gameplay. Very different.

I agree that some elements should fall by the wayside, others should be explored, and characters should progress. What you are suggesting is death. If anything they need to get back to basics. The things that made mk1 and 2 so groundbreaking and appealing to begin with are what made the series great. It isn't broken and doesn't need to be "fixed" As far as getting Midway out of bankruptcy, Mortal Kombat is the only thing keeping them out of it. I personally would not buy a Mortal Kombat game that did not have Sub Zero, Scorpion, Raiden, or Sonya. I play mk for the cast. If I am tired of them or want different characters I pop in my copy of SC or SF and use those characters.

MK9 should get back to the basics, earthrealm, a tournament, blood, guts, fatalities, and darkness. Classic characters with 3-4 new ones thoroughly developed and thought out. Mortal Kombat shouldn't pretend to be something it isn't. That is what pissed off so many people with mk vs dc. The only thing that saved that game was the fact that they got the gameplay right.

my idea's seem harsh but why not have change. characters get old some die some become gods or immortals. i respect all of your opinions. i just don't understand why not make mk9 from scratch with a complete new cast or make characters from mk1 - mkvsdc ten times better than they already are.

i play lots of videogames, and computer games and some games don't change much and that's alright but fighting games are the most simplistic type of game through all the genre's. it's just take two fighters and put them on your screen and duke it out.

i feel other genres are evolving faster than fighting games because the lack of new implements and are afraid of risk. if you fear risk you will fail. if you change or tweak a popular series there's always doubt in the fan's minds but the creators of the series challenge there limits.

here's a list of sequels that outdid the orignals mk2, god of war2, defjam fight for ny, resident evil2, tony hawk2, doom2, half life2, tekken 2, soul calibur2, streetfighter2, many more games in general surpassed the orignals because they had nothing to lose. end of discussion on my behalf.

If you are going to start from scratch as you suggest Acidslayer, then midway should just make a new series and cancel the mk series. That is what you are saying in essence. Everything that makes mk interesting and Mortal Kombat, you seem to want to get rid of.

Established characters like Scorpion, Sub Zero, Raiden, Sonya, Quan Chi are already awesome. They don't need to be "10 times better" as you put it.

You also seem to have not read or ignored my above post. Change and risk is the one thing the mk series has always done and been known for. It is the other fighting game series that have changed very little. Mkda, mkd, and mka are very different from the first 4 games. Those were the essence of good revamps. All the core elements and themes were retained. They had problems yes, but they did take chances and succeeded.

Mk vs Dc was a gamble and it paid off. I think the point of your last point is invalid. You seem to want a game with better stories and progression. We all do. You don't get that by taking out all of the characters and elements that brought you to the dance in the first place. I think that is where you are going wrong in my opinion.

After 8 games plus 3 spin offs, which were also a risk, television series, comics, and movies, the established characters and realms are a part of mk. They are a part of its fabric. If you take those out, you kill the series.

Another thing to note:

Of the sequels that you listed that did better than the originals (at random, it seems, but I can make it work), how many of them said "okay, this character's old and boring so let's get rid of them," or "Let's change the basics of the story for change" when the story moved into the sequel? None of the fighting games, I can tell you that much.

Def Jam: FFNY took place immediately after the story of the first one and was largely unchanged as a system. Really the only difference was a matter of customization and choice.

God of War 2 didn't say "Kratos needs to stop being a sadistic bastard, because they did that for all of the last game." You know why they didn't do that? Because if they did it would have changed the very nature of the character and the game as a whole.

I'd go on down the list, but I've made my point.

I'll also have to agree with Thrawn. There's no reason to start a new game "completely fresh" with no returning characters and still call it an MK game. I'm not saying you have to bring back everyone as they are now, as some have gotten stale or should go, but there are still a good number of characters that have a ways to go before they need to be sacrificed to the altar of Change For the Sake of Change.

i understand where all you guys or girls are coming from. mk9 you need or want characters from previous installments to return and i'm ok with that.

but let's just say midway eventually gets to mk15 or even mk20 you don't still want the same characters because by then you know the in's and out's of the characters by moves, story, and gameplay wise. plus i'm not asking for the whole mk cast to die by mk15 if midway even lasts by then just maybe explain why there is a complete new cast in mk whatever.

here's an example - way after mka all realms became obsolete, warriors became weak so they asked for the gods but they could not help them. a portal or vortex opened up from the sky devouring or destroying the mk cast with pure plasma energy.

then all of a sudden another vortex opened up with a complete new mk cast that were unlike any other fighting game. they killed and slayed the orignal cast of mk but for what reasons. we will find out in mk whatever.

The realms cannot become obsolete. Have you missed this whole thing going on about the One Being? The realms go away, he wakes up, and the existence of everything becomes null.

And, do you know what it sounds like to say "everybody died so we could play as these new guys." It's ludicrous.

Now, I do get what you're saying to a degree. If the series makes it to those kind of numbers, there's a good chance we will be tired of some people. I guess the way I see it is that I don't want them to FORCE newness on us. There's no problem with bringing in new characters and moving the story away from some of the more classic one's, but make the transition gradually. Introduce someone and slowly inch them toward the main event so we feel that they deserve it.

If you do all new characters and suddenly make the story about them the whole thing now, you get the same thing with Liu Kang, where he won and there was no discussing whether he thematically deserved it.

There are also things for me where, with as much as we've learned (or not learned) about some of these races and such, I think it would be wasted potential to just get rid of them altogether. There are characters that can still continue for some, and some that can be replaced as the representative of the race. But don't just say "revamp or die"

Actually you are both wrong on that. 20 years from now they will still be making mk games. It will probably be a new company and a new mk team but mk will continue. It is now like SF or Super Mario Bros or Zelda. It is a video game classic.

The game will include Sonya, Sub Zero, Scorpion, Jax, Raiden, Reptile, Shang Tsung, and Shao Kahn. Look at Hollywood. They keep remaking all the classics. Texas Chainsaw, Friday the 13th, Nightmare on Elm Street (coming soon), Halloween, Star Trek (reboot). A true classic never dies. Classics die when you ignore the elements that make it a classic. Any future mk franchise or relaunch will always include characters from mk1-3. They are the true classics. Video games are no different from comics or movies.

yea but look at all those remakes.......THEY SUCK! LMAO.... honestly i see your point and maybe some years down the line they will remake mk...but for now i am just hoping they kill off everyone and move on with the story with ties to the past.... i think now is the best time for it...

I'm not arguing whether or not they suck. Most of them do. But you missed the point of my post. Most of the remakes fail because they don't understand what makes the originals fundamentally great.

Killing off everyone that made mk popular to begin with and trying to make something very different will not equal success. Quite the opposite I think.

To Thrawn: Unfortunately, our mindsets must differ on why you seem to think I'm wrong, as I'm of the mindset that nostalgia and classicism will ultimately serve to kill this franchise. In other words, if they're still using the same principle characters 20 years from now, I'm going to be leaving MK behind, and I probably won't be the only one.

You compare the MK series to Super Mario and LoZ. The problem is that those can continue as they are as they chronicle a single hero on their own journey, and there's really no way to compare it to something with as nebulous a plot as MK. Then again, Super Mario doesn't really count for too much as story is far from the main point other than attaching the moustached plumber's name to it. (you may not be able to tell, but I don't much care for the hero of the mushroom kingdom anymore)

As for the Legend of Zelda (why is this series named after the damsel in distress?), sure they are iconic, but they do change almost everything from game to game. It's hard to argue that the Link from any one game is the same as in any of they others (aside from Link's Awakening). Only a few principal characters remain constant while EVERYTHING around them changes except for the name of Hyrule. If they can change like that, why can't MK?

As for Street Fighter, well sure they're iconic, butthey don't really allow for their characters to die, and when they started implying that Akuma/Gouki had killed a few of them off, what did they do? They started doing prequels to before that happened. SF3 had a number of characters missing with the big idea being that they were dead. Everything they've made since then is supposed to have happened a little bit before that. To me, that seems like an unwillingness to move on, and I'd prefer we not fall to the same trap.

[/tangent]

Now, you claim that getting rid of classics and characters that we've already established would kill the franchise the same way I've said that keeping them forever will. I can understand that philosophy and I agree with it... to a point.

Like I said earlier, there are quite a few characters that do deserve to be kept for a little while longer, but if there are characters on your list that don't have a suitable reason to be there, fighting the good fight, then they shouldn't be kept for the sake of remembering "the good ol' days".

The way I see it, the best thing to do for the longevity of the series is to groom and develop recent and upcoming characters into being more of the main stage over the course of the next 3-4 games. In the meantime, ween off of classics that have gone stale, but don't get rid of them immediately. This way, we can attach to the storylines of some of these new people and we don't cling so hard to the old breed.

Basically, what I'm saying is that nostalgia can't keep this franchise running forever, even the classics can get old, and maybe we need to at least try to make some new classics.

MIddle ground my friend. I am not against new characters at all.Just the mindset that always half or more of the roster should be new characters. I keep coming back to the idea that if you are honestly tired of the mk characters, why is said player still playing mk? Why not move on?

New characters are essential to keeping the franchise fresh. But they don't override the classics. They are classic for a reason. They work. That's all I'm saying

I would not care either way it went as long as MK9 has an awesome Kreate A Fighter that is well balanced with maybe a larger set of special moves,attires,fatalities,races,ect.
With Kreate A Fighter this whole thing with characters can be resolved because classic characters can be created if they are not in the game.
There are characters I do not care for myself like Dairou or Hsu Hao for starters but I am not requesting them to be removed. Now maybe some revamping of some of the least favorite characters (like the ones I previously said) could work out well but not with iconic ones like Shao Kahn. In some ways I would not mind seeing a few characters change but keep it logical and not too overboard...like perhaps Jax becoming almost full Cyborg,Motaro with cybernetic hind legs or Sareena in her Demon form.
We want to keep the essence of the classic Mortal Kombat alive not give it a Fatality.

The LAST think MK needs to do is get rid of all the things that separate it from other fighting games. If you get rid of all the characters and remove the realms concept and start a completely new story, ur not playing an mk game anymore. I agree that mk could use a little revamp, but you need to keep those things that define the game as Mortal Kombat. the thing i really wanna see is a story mode like MK vs DC. personally i thought it was very well put together for a fighting game. say what you will about mk vs dc, the gameplay is solid and the story gives you a great context for all the fights that take place. its more interesting than a simple arcade ladder and an ending that may or may not even be true.

As for races, yes i think its not only a good idea but necessary to flesh out the groups that have seen little attention in previous games. Races like the saurians, vampires, shokan, tarkata, and centaurs could definitely use some more focus in future games.

I think that its important to give some more attention to newer characters (that is, those introduced in mk4 and after). i don't want to see a new game where 90% of the characters are mk1 and mk2 originals. some of these new characters have more potential than just cannon fodder for older fighters, and deserve a chance to have their stories fleshed out.

Some ideas for the next mk game:

1. A new tournament, perhaps the next earthrealm tournament? it would be what, 35 or so years after the current mk timeline. some original characters would be there, but they would obviously be older and play a less decisive role (more like Bo'Rai Cho, as mentors). introduce a new earthrealm champion (Liu Kang is dead, it seems to do him justice to keep it that way. don't make him another Johnny Cage).

2. Kill off Shao Kahn. Let's face it, he's a badass but doesn't have much room to develop. Kill him off and have the outworld factions fighting for dominance. This gives room to set up new characters for the shokan, edenians, outworlders, tarkatans, centaurs, or possibly even raptors. Also it would allow a chance to flesh out Reiko (who i like despite him being underdeveloped and often overlooked). He would be a likely choice to try to salvage Kahn's crumbling empire.

3. Put some focus on Orderrealm. Perhaps Darrius has overthrown the government and now Seido has fallen into civil war. Hotaru's role is now reversed with Darrius. he would be on the run, trying to organize a resistance while being hunted by Dairou. introduce a new character (or at least try to make the current ones more dynamic)

4. Have a subplot going on in the Netherrealm, where perhaps Shinnok and Quan Chi are removed from power - personally i think Noob Saibot's a good choice. He has supporting characters like Smoke and Sareena or possibly even Scorpion (after all, Noob wouldn't be one to hold a grudge - he doesn't even have feelings). This would give some purpose to everyones favorite yellow-clad ninja from hell. its better than the same old "I WANT REVENGE!!!!...!!!!" story.

5. Give some attention to the Vampires. For starters, why is there only one vampire character? give us a new character. maybe Nitara managed to kill Ashrah, only to be enslaved by Datusha. now she's hunting and killing her own kind . The vampire elders call for their best warrior to find Nitara and stop her.

if the create a fighter was brought back for all future installments then everyone could have there favorite mk characters. so if mk made it to say mk15 or even 20. they could have an entire new cast.

no more old characters anymore unless you wanted to create them using the create a fighter engine. this is the best way to get rid of the old characters.

but the mkteam would deeply need to enhance this mode by bringing every special move and fatality back from mk1 to mkd. add every masks, and hats from the previous mk games.

there would be restrictions on this mode like when creating a fighter they already have a pre set of moves and attires. similar to wwe games.

rvd's moveset is in svr09 but the character is not so you have to make him. it be like say sub zero is not in the game but they have his move set so you then just have to mess with his appearance if you don't already like the one he is wearing.

i want to see change but if you want classics then play the classics or just ask for this feature to return.

No, no NO! Create a Fighter has to be the dumbest thing for Mortal Kombat. Because it was executed so poorly, I doubt that they're going to try to make it better by adding it to another game and giving in a second chance.

What you said, I can't believe you're an MK fan. Get rid of all the classics? Destroy Sub-Zero and Scorpion? No, this is by far the dumbest thing I've seen for an idea. I'm sorry to say that but this is crap. No MK Fan would say get rid of those two. And don't you dare come back and saying "Oh well just leave those two in." No, because you just said that all classics shouldn't return.

In order for us to play as the classics we should make them ourselves? It's like this:

Let's take out Shawn Michaels, HHH, Taker, Big Show and all the wrestlers who have been in the industry for a long time and only have the shittiest wrestlers to play in the next SDvsRAW game, in order to play as the originals or long living wrestlers, you must make them, which means there's gonna be a hell of a long time for us to make these wrestlers instead of playing the actual game itself.

Yeah, no, this idea of yours is really starting to be a dislikeable one, Acid... and trust me, you're not going to get someone on your side by saying "Down with the Classics." No, no.

Icebaby...i understand and agree that some of the classics need to remain active for a good game to be established but i really enjoy the create a character system and it just needs improvement. what is it about the system you dont like? perhaps your one of the cry babies that complain about balance and people making crazy unbeatable chars??
there is nothing wrong with making your own chars in the mortal kombat universe...if done right it could be a great feature. you used wrestlers as an example so i will use wrestling as an example: smackdown vs raw has an awesome cac system and if the mk games could come closer to that it could seriously be something worth having in the game.

Maybe I should start attacking you, I mean after all I'm just stating MY OPINION... cry baby? Please, this is how I make my opinions, and if you can't handle what I have to say, then maybe you should ignore what I have to write, because I state a lot of open-minded thoughts/feelings when I write. You want answers, I'll give you answers:

I never appreciated the whole thing I general, because oh great, 5 new projectiles yet I have to deal with all the same character's moves to make my created fighter.

The clothes were retarded, both males and females should share the same kind of outfits like they have with WWE's CAW, even though certain materials wouldn't look right, I mean come on!

Pointless biography creations are a waste of time. Let's create a huge story for a character I'll only play for a little bit until the next game comes out.

I don't have a problem with making new characters with that system, in fact, that's the reason why I feel like buying SC4 just for the hell of it. But what he used it for, was to make the classics because of how he feels that all the classics should NOT return. That makes no sense, why should we have to create Sub-Zero when he should already be in the game?

Am I crying over this? No. Am I just stating my side of this story? Yes. Did in fact that this thread went completely haywired and is now talking about created characters and classics instead of races? Yes.

So, can we get back on track, or am I going to be expecting something said from you and start something up? Because once again, this is how I state my opinions, and calling me a cry baby for something you had no idea about my opinions of the system in the first place is uncalled for.

actually you explained yourself a bit better lol...i actually agree with what you are saying for the most part...as for cac i think it should still be redone and kept in the game.
as what i asked if you were being a crybaby...perhaps i went out of context and im sorry if i offended.