raiden turing to the dark side does not mean he is evil to me. i think he is mad and fed up with stupid humans not listening to him. he thinks they are trying to be gloried(shujinko) and is ingorant putting earth in danger. so his dark side is more of a STRICT side. dark raiden still wants pro-order. that sounds ironic, i know. he is not going to let mankind destroy earth(pro-order) by being stupid and will kill them if they mess up(making examples of people). so i think dark raiden is just a nice guy who got fed up with people who are ungrateful and stupid.

(sounds alot alike when god comes back in to earth to judge(heaven,hell), if you believe in christ.)

I think, YKW, that you're suggesting a sort of "Darth Vader" approach to Rayden. Not in overall story, but in his turn back from being the bad guy. I could see a scenario where, in the final moment where all of his bad decisions have culminated in to one moment of truth, he chooses the right path instead of the wrong one.

But as far as thinking that Dark Rayden has less "depth" or something along those lines, I couldn't disagree more. To me, the reason why he's fed up is because Liu Kang is dead, Shujinko put Earth at risk, and now Rayden basically feels that he has to protect Earth, even if it's at the expense of some mortals that may even have good intentions.

So yeah, "Dark Rayden" is a good way of putting it, but not "Evil Rayden." I could see a really good plot where a new "leader" of the Elder Gods decides that the only way to bring order to all realms is for Earth to be destroyed. Hear me out:

Mortals are weak, gullible, greedy, and flawed. Because of this, the Elder Gods, having seen the invasions, the discord and the unbalancing of the furies, decides that, under the power of a "leader of the Elder Gods" (yes, a step up from Rayden and even Shinnok) or the High Elder, they will hold a tournament where Mortals fight Gods in an impossible to win tournament, which will allow the Gods to adhere to their own rules, while being able to destroy Earth and remake it with a version of Mortals that are stronger, more powerful and more pure of spirit.

Rayden sees the wisdom in remaking Earth as a new, better place and he goes along with this idea, effectively becoming a sub boss for the main boss, the Leader character. But he'd have logical reasons for this, so as to give him depth and reason and not simply "he's a bad guy now."

As I said, he'd be angered at the flaws of even the "good" warriors like Shujinko, but he'd also be angered at the greed, the lust for power etc of characters like Kano, Kabal, Mavado etc. With many of the good, pure warriors like Sonya, Liu Kang etc dying in Armageddon, he'd be left with nothing that he sees as worthy of protecting.

He'd even hate Kung Lao, who would become Fujin's pupil, for being unsure of himself and unable to accept the role of Chosen One. At the end of the next game, in order to cement the potential for Rayden to go full on bad guy (though to eventually turn good again later), I'd have Rayden kill Kung Lao.

So yeah, I think that there are ways of making Dark Rayden a deep character, he just has to have REAL reasons for doing what he's doing and not just "I've decided that Earth is a poopy place," the plan should be introduced to him, and he'll have to find ultimate logic for it. He'll have to BELIEVE that he's doing the right thing because honestly? It will have to seem like a good idea, even if the downside is that billions of people will die.

Raiden can be a sub-boss and the main villain should be the final boss.

The idea of Raiden serving as a sub-boss is interesting. I do agree with all the points that you made, Baraka. You are absolutely correct, there is some depth to Dark Raiden -- I'll admit that. His motivations are definitely well-done. You sort of have what I'd like to see from Raiden sorted. I'll use an analogy to explain what I mean:

Raiden from about MKII-MKDA could be compared to a young man. A very powerful young man, but still. He's dealing with essential children, so he feels so mature and like he knows everything there is to know about the world. He does know a lot, but essentially he is arrogant without realising it. Then he goes through a MKD-MKA mid-life crisis of sorts. He becomes cynical, but lives by idealism rather than realism. Then he could become a bit older, and realise that he was arrogant when he was younger, and realises how much he as learned.

Right now I'm reflecting on that quote that came up on the screen when you turned on MK3: "There is no knowledge that is not power." Raiden could be a character that reminds us that there is always something to learn in this life. Even for a deity.

Very interesting. Now in terms of special moves as a dark character, his projectiles should be a larger thunder ball and a more powerful beam of lightning. Powers that are so powerful that it can take at least half of a character's life. I know it may sound cheap but it's an idea I have if he were ever to become a boss-like fighter.

I get what you're saying YKW. I think that he's going in to that 2nd stage right now. I think that for him, it was a learning process. The idea of being a God upon high, looking down at the world, versus actually BEING down in the world are two VERY different things.

Think about it, when he comes down to join in MK1, and from that point, through MK:D, he gets to see the best and worst of what Earthrealm has to offer. He sees people like Kano, a greedy, ruthless thug. He sees the first Sub Zero, a ninja assassin, but he also sees all of the characters that are hell bent on Earth's destruction.

Throughout all of this, from MK1 through MKD, he's met characters, a few good ones that have fought to the point of exhaustion or death, bad ones that seem to keep springing up, and the evil ones that are hell bent on destruction. Two things would occur to Rayden through his experiences of actually being down in the trenches, fighting with Earths' warriors:

1) Without a champion like Liu Kang, Earth is extremely vulnerable.
2) Perhaps Earth, as the Gods made it, was a mistake. The people are weak and flawed and petty and cruel. Not only aren't they worthy of his protection, they're to weak to even be worth protecting in the first place.

Now by that, I don't mean that he'd want to kill them because they're weak. No, in his mind, he'd be helping. He would want to destroy Earthrealm, so that it can be remade, a world with more strength, goodness and the ability to defend itself.

Rayden could have learned these problems and their solution over time. So while he might come off as "evil" to Earths warriors, he'll belief that his path is the righteous one because it will ultimately make Earth better.

Of course, in fighting in the tourament, he'll also learn that there are good warriors still left on Earth, and that they are willing to die in order to protect this realm. He'll also come to realize that, in Earth's final moments, just what it costs to bring about a new order.

This is when he, the sub boss, will turn against the boss character, rise up, and once more take his place as Earth's protector. Instead of fighting Fujin and Earth's champion, he'll be the one that pulls the power from this Elder God, nearly killing himself in the process, but making this Elder God mortal, allowing Earth's champion to fight this Elder God on even footing, as Mortals in...

MORTAL KOMBAT!!

lol, sorry, it needed to be said

But anyways, that's where I'd go with it.

his lightning should turn to bluish red. red and blue mixed together,still pro-order but really mean about it. i think those colors could help convey his mood change and his way of thinking. and get rid of the ugly "dark raiden costum".

raiden has already resurrected kang by form of nerco magic and he should make kang's appearance look like his old self more. but you should be able to tell that something is off about kang, giving him a cool but dangerous look.

example: liu should look like anakin when he first pledged to the dark side, in star wars 3. you can tell he is evil(yellow eyes,mean, serious,hoody) but he still has a cool factor to him. not a dumb mindless zombie. lol

I sure hope this plotline gets resolved in some manner or other before the reboot happens, if there will be one. The MK team definitely seemed to have plans for this character that haven't been seen through yet, plans big enough that they didn't want to throw them away in a quick and dirty wrap-up in Armageddon, and I can't wait to see what they were.

It's strange. If we hadn't been told outright that Raiden cared personally for the warriors fighting for his realm, the "dark" turn would actually seem pretty natural for a god in his position. I mean, Raiden's job is to protect Earth, right? For him that would normally be as simple as dealing with any threats to his domain through brute force, but unfortunately he landed in the unique position of having to rely on a tournament between mortals to keep his realm safe. So he personally guided the warriors who were chosen to compete not necessarily because he cared, but out of necessity if he wanted them to have the edge they needed to emerge victorious. But ever since Shao Kahn's defeat, that requirement was no longer an issue and he now has the choice to defend Earth in any way he deems expedient. Maybe he never really cared about humans as much as we've been led to believe, or simply cares more about the realm than those who live on it and would choose the former if asked to decide between one or the other (as he did in his battle with Shinnok)? Or, perhaps he felt that way until he had to deal with mortals personally and started caring about them because of it, and is now falling back on old inclinations out of pain or fatigue? Hell, from this point of view the whole possession angle almost seems like a copout. The character could totally support such an internal conflict on his own through the natural course of events. Perhaps that's what makes it so viscerally intriguing.

I'm enjoying this discussion a lot. Basically, I don't want to see Raiden become a cliched "villain" in the story. I'm not saying that is neccessarily the path he is heading on, but as interesting as he is, if he is dispatched like any other boss character -- I will be disappointed. I'd like to see Raiden be the one who stops Raiden. Perhaps with inspiration from some Earth warriors with good souls left in them.

Of all the things Raiden has done in the story, and I think this was disregarded by Armageddon as "non-canon," the hypothetical situation of Raiden punishing Shujinko for "betraying" Earthrealm is something I would like to see brought up as Raiden's "biggest regret." It's a moment where he passed cold judgment, and took vengeance upon a creature trying to atone for the flaws it is expected to have. I could imagine a cool scene where Raiden went to The Heavens, located Shujinko, and begged for forgiveness. Shujinko can actually have the power in this scene, and actually grants a god pardon for ending his life. This would also be a cool way to resolve Shujinko's story without bringing him back as a playable character -- how many people get to judge God?

I can also imagine future characters even disrespecting Raiden to his face a little. "Why are you so passive?" "For a Thunder God you don't seem too powerful." Raiden just smiles and nods -- not because he is, but because he has learned that even he is not infallible, and that mortals occasionally make asses of themselves and don't need him constantly making it worse for them.

Raiden's graduation from major force of goodness to menacing threat could very easily (and interestingly) be led to being an amazingly enlightened protagonist in the story, in my opinion. I also think that Raiden is one of those characters that could actually be used to make huge sweeping statements about life and philosophy and such. Raiden holds so much power in his hands, and him choosing how to use it carries so much weight with the story.

Maybe not right away; but rather than a "We must destroy Raiden!" storyline, I'd like to see Raiden be the one who "defeats" his dark persona.

Raiden vs Fujin

Liu Kang vs Kung Lao

i can already see the battle heating up. lol god and enforcer.

both sides would want order and to protect earth but would have different ways of doing it. raiden demands(strict) perfection from mortals while fujin takes the mentor teacher(players coach) approach. raiden will kill you if you mess up, fujin would forgive you and help you get better. and of course liu and kung will be devout followers of their god, willing to fight or even die for what they believe in.

let the ego's clash. BOOM!!!!!

That's a way I could see them going, Big; but then what purpose does Armageddon serve? Aren't we meant to be getting things cleaned up? Having multiple gods and multiple enforcers just sounds as messy as before.

Raiden should probably be a secret character given the state he's in, and what his current motivations are. He wants the kill off all the bad guys, but he will take out a good guy IF they get in the way of his methodology... "ruthless", NOT "evil".

So, Raiden should be an impressive secret character with maybe Zombie Liu Kang as either a "super secret", or a corpse that has deteriorated come MK9.

None of this boss, sub boss nonsense. He'll have made some new enemies yea, but to make him a boss forces the issue a bit.

ThePredator151

i have not seen you post in a long time. lol


and raiden as a boss i will have to think about that.....