i love the idea of a darker mk. but how dark will it get? the million dollar question. if it's darker then it's a safe bet that the joke characters will be gone.

Like who?

You got the right idea, but the developers need to have a grip on the technology they workin with

\

like mokap and boraicho.

Absolutely. I have not purchased MK: Armageddon yet, but I've played it and read enough about it to know that it's NOT the MK game most of us have been waiting for. I have to cut loose here: I think it's time Ed Boon takes his balls out of his wife's purse and gets back to the basics. Forget about "toasty." Forget about Bo Rai Cho (farts and vomit were amusing in third grade, but I'm over it now). Forget about ridiculous, cartoonish fatalities that look like an undergrad made them in his Lightwave animation class. Forget about mini games (Tetris will always take care of me when I need her). Forget about having a bazillion kombatants and 3 mini games and a fancy-pants adventure mode. And, most importantly, stop trying to make me laugh and start making some real controversy. After all, isn't controversy a big part of why the Mortal Kombat franchise became so popular to begin with?

Don't get me wrong kiddies, I've enjoyed the last two MK installments immensely. I've spent more time with them than any other game I own. However, with Armageddon, I can already see that it was a "quantity before quality" venture. A lot of recycled material in a sequel game leaves me feeling a bit cheated. I think Boon and his team have awesome potential and creativity, and my wish is that they use it to make Mortal Kombat evil again. Turn the tables and put QUALITY before quantity.

Based on the very small amount of information we have about the next game, it sounds like Boon and the team are headed in the right direction. The Unreal engine...awesome. He's acknowledged that they have a clean slate. I can only hope they are gearing up to create a darker, gorier, and more realistic-looking MK game. And if anyone actually gives a crap about my opinion about what the next Kombat should be, read on because here it is:

The ONLY things that should DEFINITELY be carried over to the next generation of MK are:

1. Scorpion & Sub-Zero (these guys are originals and a necessary piece of MK nostalgia that the new game must have. The struggle between the fire and ice is always a tasty sub-plot). I would include very few (IF ANY) of the other kombatants we've already played with. If you want to include someone like Raiden or another super-popular MK alumnus, make them a hidden character -- and please, make me REALLY work for it. And I don't mean by having me wander around in a silly adventure game waiting for the clock to strike twelve (MK isn't about wandering around and collecting jewelry -- it's about kicking asses until they bleed). The bottom line here is that I think people are ready for a fresh lineup of brand new, carefully-crafted kombatants.

2. Death Traps. I'm so happy this was finally introduced in Deception. My only suggestion here is not to make them so freakin' obvious (i.e. - don't draw a red or yellow circle on the floor showing me where not to stand -- Let me find it by accident one day). Mutilation is so much sweeter when it's unexpected). If people don't like surprises, then make the red and yellow warnings an option that the player can turn on if they want.

3. Interactive & Destructible Environments. Another great addition made in the most recent titles. I'd love to see these taken to the next level though. For example -- I hated waiting for the long pause and camera rotation when grabbing the spider staff in the beetle lair. And why only one weapon floating in space in the middle of a room? It just doesn't seem very spontaneous (or realistic) to me. I'd love to see Scorpion quickly snap a piece of wood from a nearby fence and bash Sub-Zero in the lips with it in a matter of a second or two.

4. Blood, blood and more blood. I know a lot of things I've said so far favor a less silly and exaggerated MK game, but I think BLOOD is the one thing that should be played up as usual. The reason being that the blood is what started it all. MK without a boat-load of blood just wouldn't be MK now, would it? My main suggestion on this: Let's see some realistic looking vein juice in the next game. No more chunky, fire-engine red blobs. Make it fluid and gruesome. Make it splatter against the wall. Make it smear and cling to the weapons. This also might include more realistic anatomy, bones shattering, teeth flying out of a man's dented face because it's just been bashed in with a steel pipe. You get the idea...attention to every bloody detail.

5. A Great Story. One of the things I think we've all come to love (and expect) about MK is it's attention to story. It sets Mortal Kombat apart from the DOAs and Tekkens of the fighting world who think a story is just another flight of stairs to climb in the morning. I think of the story as a mini soap opera that helps bring personality and purpose to the characters. I felt that Deadly Alliance did a nice job with this. Deception, while more fun on the gameplay side, I felt was lacking a lot of story elements. Many of the new characters had pretty lackluster backgrounds and it felt almost as if their writers didn't put a whole lot of thought into the wacky mythology thing about order and chaos... I could be wrong, but I don't think most of us found it particularly engaging. Also, a lot of character backgrounds seemed forced -- like they had so many characters to develop that they just started pulling ideas out of their asses as their deadline grew closer). I just feel like the story for the next game should be a huge departure from all of this chaos, order, dragon king, Shujinko, kamidogu garbage. The beginning of the new MK could probably be well conceived as a "spin-off" of the original MK story (I mean the one of Liu Kang, Shang Tsung, Raiden, The tournament, Outworld, etc.) having only a few key connections to the old MK universe. Bottom line is, start with a strong, well written history on which to base the next generation of Mortal Kombat titles.

6. Simple and uncomplicated button sequences. I like a challenge as much as anyone, but I've always appreciated the fact that the core moves in MK typically have had very clear and concise button patterns. I like to fight my opponent, not with the controller. Even though a lot of folks that are hard-core fighting game fans may find it exciting to wiggle their thumbs in 9 different directions before performing a move that they'll likely not pull off again, I think the best games are those that can be controlled with natural ease. The challenge should come from discovering and mastering the techniques and combos (as it has been with most prior MK games).

7. Combos. I don't care how they do it. Just make 'em fast, brutal, and painful to take. Maybe don't allow another Shujinko who can practically kill you immediately by pulling off just one long devastating combo. Enough said.

8. Defensive moves. The breakers are a decent start, but I'd like to see some actual counter-attacks a-la DOA. I seriously think Midway could put DOA in it's place by inventing counter attacks that are easier to perform. When I play DOA, I feel like it's always a crap-shoot whether or not my counter move will work the way I want it to. That's all I have to say about that.

9. Give everybody a unique fighting style and weapon. I've heard a lot of people bitch and moan about the accuracy of each fighting style and whether or not Netherrealm is a real martial art and Kenpo, Judo, Hapkido blah blah blah blah blah. The truth is, it's a video game. Who gives a fuck? As long as it's helping me beat the piss out of the other dude and it looks good on the screen...life is great! Besides, as much as I'd love MK to have a more sinister and realistic look, I would hate for it to lose the sense of fantasy that comes from its supernatural themes (i.e. - telekinetic powers and teleporting thunder gods). I have to say that there were quite a few cases in the past 3 games where the similarities in moves from one character to another were so similar that it took the individuality out of the character (i.e. - Scorpion and Kenshi's swords in MKDA is one of the more obvious). I'd just like to see more individuality in overall character development (probably reducing the roster would make that a no-brainer). I'd almost rather see more moves per character than more characters.

10. Last but not least: Custom Fatalities. It was a great idea for MKA, but a less than stellar execution (no pun intended). I think many will agree with me on this one. The problem with the custom fatality was that it was no longer a unique, surprise move that was specialized to your chosen character. The controls were standard. The actual moves were pretty much standard. STANDARD is pretty damn boring after a while if you ask me. Therefore I'm no longer entertained by custom fatalities. I do however enjoy the fact that I get to control it. I know that if Boon and the crew can find a way to individualize the fatalities and make them more creative (i.e. - perhaps a slow and painful strangulation with Scorpion's rope? ), I would most definitely enjoy having the control to escalate the fatality with my own two hands. I know, I'm one sick puppy. See what happens when you let me play violent video games mom?


So that's it. In my opinion, those 10 things are the ONLY real essential elements for the next MK game. Oh, and one last thing (this isn't part of the official 10, but I just have to say it: Ed Boon, you gotta drain some of the color out of the Kombat. It's always amazed me that MK games have such dark and disturbing themes, but their colors don't often reflect that mood. My recommendation is that you go watch Fight Club or Seven and think about what those drab and dirty colors could do for MK8.

OK, I can't believe I just typed all that crap. I'm such a damn Kombat nerd. I bet a girl will never go out on a date with me -- even if I saved her from the filthy shackles of Goro's lair. Even if I took an un-sterilized harpoon to the jugular for a girl in distress, she'd say, "You are a silly little man-child who still plays with toys and wets the bed. I'll never go out with you, so piss off." Love hurts. So does a roundhouse kick to the mammary glands.

totally agree with the guy above me.

exlxaxd is right.....This is Mortal Kombat.....
When I heard about the darker style MK8 and the unreal engine, the first thing that striked my head was the "new visual presentation and our game presentation". What kind of visual and style midway will bring to MK ? Back to Roots (like a upgraded Mk 1) ? Huge guys with outstanding/epic moves (like gears of war mixed with MK - no silly crap like DOA or VT or even Tekken) ?
New looks - Unreal style ? Clive Barker's Tortured Souls style ? H. R. Giger style ?

well, i can't wait....November 2008.....

And the DS MK !!!! I wanna it too !!

Bo' Rai Cho a joke? Hardly. He's less of a joke than Scorpion.

great post exlxasxd! I completely agree with what you said, couldn't have said it better myself.

By the Gods man! ~Nice~ *round of applause*

I remember typing an almost mirrored opinion like that out...

=================

Anyway, my 2cents:

"Darker" ain't the word. As a matter of fact...I think it's technically dark enough already. There's just alot of bs sitting in the way of realizing it. Watching vids that showcase "the history of fatalities" and so on show that even some of the most hated MK games have some of the most "dark" stuff in them. It's only in hine-sight that it's realized what was produced//What we were exposed to.....

I think some more accurate words to describe what "the feinds"(us) want, are as follows:

1. Brutal: Check you favorite "manly" movies...The scenes in said movies commonly have an unseen before brutality to them. there are those games that are more brutal than Mk too...most recently, God of War//Gears of War...particularly the vids.

An Example of Brutal?:: "UnderWorld" where the Old Vampire punches the flesh off that Younger Vampires Face?...Member? The blood splattered all over the camera and everything. "Brute"

2. Violent: Has anybody noticed that "New" angle the producers have taken on making a car accident happen? You're riding along, having a nice conversation with your passenger.....and then a faint light apprears out the window across either side of the car(depending on what side the camera is shooting through.) And then...BAM!! The car is T-Bone'd right there on your big screen.

An Example of Violent?:: "Saving Private Ryan". Remember what it looked like when somebody got shot or blown up?

3. Graphic: Ask yourself this now. What do you understand about death that should disturb you, but doesn't? What I'm saying here is that something vividly defining is not happening in Mk like it used to...The crunch of a limb, the splatter of blood...sht, the very effect of a punch is dulled for most of us from this franchise.

An Example of Graphic ?:: N17 Anime// Your First Porn...ect
"vividly definimg"

4. Disturbing: You're already disturbed. Lol!
The next "best" thing would only be to see your character actually butcher somebody. Yea....here to take it further, have the camera look right into the dead persons eyes so we can see pupils dialate....then we can all go nuts. And if there's enough disturbing material in the game...we might all get lucky and become shellshocked...lol
Just kidding...

5. Cynical: Our bad guys seem less bad as of late...Why? A character like Shang Tsung, the snake of the bunch should certainly make up this word excellently....but he generally isn't selfish enough. He's not disturbingly pessimistic enough to feed a fan of his entirly. And moreover...he went from the boss of the first Mk, to now seemingly "another regualr character with powers"...What about the other bad guys? Most of them did the same thing....."Were reduced"....Maybe there's just too many to make them all cynical enough. The only thing that rings with most of them at first thought is "Bad guy". Or "not good guy"....and not "That's a wicked Evil monster of a character"...Nobody in Mortal Kombat has that about them anymore. for me that used to be Shao Kahn...what happended to him? REDUCED.

6. Pain: In older games, the sounds of pain were more evident....the visuals were flashy to accompany the soundsor vice versa. When a guy or gal got hit they SCREEEEEAAAAAMED!!! It sounded like it really hurt your character. When a fatality was done especially....Now? This is dumbed down....toned down....processed more even. --- Remember the back-ground effects during an exploding fatality? Flashy wasn't it? Not there any more...wtf?
I'll tell you why, because some kid got a seizure from playing A video game so they had to take all the flashy stuff out. It's true, you know you heard about it...*vividly defining*...Haha!

7. Merciless(mercy-less): Mk is not without this attribute, but it is softer than the more raw Mk1-T. This is a desire of mine mainly concerning Fatalities. It seems like all the limitations on what the producers can do, actually did limit them when making the game. they forgot how to find the glitch in their own system it seems. Enough to where the formula now seems to just consists of staying relavant to the general populus and just selling the game. Make it so people will buy it and we'll get back to the core fans in a while.

I feel like that's how good ideas get shit on. KAF could've been fantastic...limitations actually limited thought processes and ideas...
Older fatalities didn't hold anything back, the more mentally damaging it was it seemed like the more likely they were to put it in the next game...

8. Sadistical: Mk2 rings pretty well with this word. What, with Mileenas primary fatality and all. She seemed happy to suck your whole body up, and just spit out the bones....It hurt so good. aheh. But we're not really getting that anymore either. In efforts to make things "Darker", they may have forgotten about how fun it is to inflict pain on you opponent, and say "fuck you" with a smile.....

9. Gritty//Dirty: These two make the visual experience "pop". They add depth to whatever you're looking at. They take the focus away from whatever "gloss there might have been as far as the character make-up is concerned. But, You could have a whole bunch of color in the next game and it would feel "dark" anyway. Anybody ever watched "Hero" with Jet Li and Donny Yen? Or House of Flying Daggers?
Those movies had wonderful displays of vibrant color.....but the vibe was so "Kill or Be Killed". Lol

10. Realistic: To me, Life-like characters give a better connection to what I'm doing with them. Better stated: They make me care about the person I'm playing with more cuz I don't wanna see 'em get killed....
Basiclly. That's why I can't stand these plastic graphiclly plastic characters I have to play with now. It's tolerable for graphics right now, but the rest of the game brought it down for me just that much further...*shrugs* What-a-ya-gun-na-do eh?

Anyway that's why I like Mk2s' graphical appeal so much...it was just so real I couldn't believe it was possible. It reinforced the fandom for Raiden I had from the first game. He looked even better the second time around. I mean everybody looked fantastic in that game but, MY character...was//is Raiden because of that game. Just didn't wanna get any blood on the God of Thunder and Lightning you know? Hahahahahahaa!!

I'm outta here.....Layd-

Well praise Jebus that SOME people are actually paying attention. I go to the "Future MK" thread, everybody else is posting about how they want at least half of the OLD characters to look in a NEW MK. Pathetic. Quoting myself from a few weeks ago...

"I'm hoping for a more back-to-basics feel, like 10-15 characters instead of like 24 or 60 or 130 or whatever, with a maximum of 3 old characters from the old storyline to continue into the new generation (to establish that this is, indeed, still Mortal Kombat). And if they tone down on the overtly magical aspects and return to the Asian-mystic motif that was so balls-kickingly awesome with the first two games (that they never really got back despite their attempts in Deadly Alliance and onward, imo), consider me 2000% sold on this."

But I propose that you actually CAN have a Mortal Kombat without Sub OR Scorp... I am still working on my own idea of a darker, more "realisitic" storyline for MK (You can find it on either pg. 3 or 4 of the Future MK games thread), and I am still fleshing out the wording for the Edenian part of my story. If anyone is interested, I will put it up somewhere on either this thread, the other one, or one of its own within the next couple days. Personally, I would want to see Raiden, Fujin & Daegon return, and then have a completely new cast.

Discuss on.

I agree with all you. Accept personally I dont care about characters, I think the ones now are fine and anything else would be just repeating stereotypes. But ya, if they can make more characters, get right to it.

I agree with the poster who stated that a step back from the more "Magical" elements of MK is needed. Now, I'm not saying that it should be non-magical, but just less magical. The last few storylines have really taken the story to a more LOTR style adventure as opposed to a contest where combatants fight to the death.

I'd also like to see the hand to hand stuff be more like actual hand to hand fighting. That is brutal, hard to watch, and with zero "rag doll physics". Watching 120 lb Sonya juggle 800 lb Onaga in the air with hand chops is just plain absurd. I'd rather see the combatants brutally strike each other, and leave tangible damage and pain.

I'd also like to see pretty much all new characters. As many as possible. Yes some old faces will be needed, to verify that this is still an MK game, but I'd really like to see a fresh restart of the franchise.

The "restart" should be deeper than just characters though, it should involve the story as well. The storyline should only loosely follow Armageddon. It should be it's own evolving universe from this point forward. Just like they promised it would be in Deadly Alliance on forward (then in Deception they completely went back on that and reintroduced pretty much all the characters).

In short, it should look, feel, and be almost completely new.

i want to see special moves leave visable damage.

ex: when scorpion does the spear move i want it to leave a hole in the opponent or when kung lao does his hat throw i want it to leave scratch marks.

Strangely, I somehow feel like a little less of a Kombat Nerd. Perhaps there is hope for me in the mysterious dating world.

perhaps a train wreck?..ummmm,maybe not that harsh,but if the next installment doesnt have good gameplay the other things are just cosmethics and nothing else.

I've also read your comment about less characters in the other thread. I agree with u there. IMO 10 characters would be enuff. I think its pretty essential if they really want to clear the state and give MK the impulse it needs. Also on the more quality less quantity tip. And good point on the asian mythic vibe, MK lost it a bit there. I hope Tobias would join the team again, because I mos def saw it in Tao-Feng. But without him, it could be done just as well, no disrespect to Boon.

And leaving Sub and Scorp out? Well that really crossed my mind, because I really wanted a CLEAN state for MK, almost like a new game. If so, I think they should bring new characters that are connected to Scorpion & Subzero. Someone from the Lin Kue for example or maybe even further connected.
I would like the read your story for the next MK, I'll see if I can find it.

OnTopic: YEsss..MK needs a darker, serious feel. But it is just a fragment of the next better MK.

Why is that? Don't get me wrong, I agree that Bo Rai Cho ISN'T a joke. But I do find his moves not suitable for a MK game in trend of its original vibe. Mokap IS a joke, but I think that was their intention.

The only move that doesn't fit the MK 'vibe' would be his Puke Puddle. Everything else is fine.

And his fart fatality, not a special move, but still something that makes me laugh because its simply funny. I think he was a good addiction to the cast, but for the next MK I rather see a more Shujinko type of character.

There are alot of interesting and well thought out points in this thread. The members who wrote those ideas down know the true feeling of Mortal Kombat. I would like to have that dark nitty, gritty, atmosphere in Mortal Kombat but at the same time I would like to bring back Friendships, but have them done in a different way, let's just say have friendships done in the same style as Happy Tree Friends .

Noh, I think he's a joke. He certainly doesn't "ring" sensei or Master...Or leader of any sort....or wise//wisdom......and hardly a fighter..?.. Bo Rai Cho says..."Drunk", in relation to words like Grandpa or.....old bum. "Old Fat Drunk with a Stick"...to be quite frank.

His staff and the fact that he's over the age for drinking Beer are probably the most serious things about him.......But who takes an old fat drunk with a stick serious?...Nobody.

You can tell I despise the direction they took that character....He could've been so much better. Now, I just hope the make him younger, less a drunk...Ah screw it, just get rid of him now...

anyways getting back on topic, it would be orgasmic cool if they went all dark and gothic... i mean come on this game was totally dark when it first came out and should stick with things like that.

i do agree with whoever stated about keeping the amount of characters to an average number like 15. the sub-boss should be something out of the blue like an idea from World of Warcraft (i know i;m bringing something up like that) but the creatures in there would be perfect for a new sub-boss but yet again what the hell is the whole fricken point with that? just an honest opinion don't take it the other way

if they have to base this game on a certain character can it PLEASE not be Liu Kang anymore. i am tired of that. i am not against any asians but its time for a new hero. sub-zero for an example, should have the game be based somewhat around him becuase hell... he's not dead.

the fatality thing will be back to regular thing, as i stated in many other posts that the whole create a fatality thing was problaby just in there becuase it was an end to that generation so im pretty... no i am sure thats gone. and this time the fatalities, if its going to be darker, should be more gory that really makes u sick to ur stomach. my mother was pleased when me and my brother could rip heads off by bare hands... very proud and she'll be proud of us more if we can destroy a person by weird killing styles thing... i am not making sense here sorry.

all and all, Mortal Kombat should stick with the whole darker things, i hate comedian style characters. i really can't stand them and plus they're in a game that could be extremely cool and dark if they weren't causing most people to laugh becuase of their puke move or because the critics are throwing thngs at them becuase of something they said. let there be DARK!

I really dont think that MK will get dark after all the new characters show up in the new MK games.It will start out light, and then get darker and darker, just like the original games did.
But that is a pretty good idea, dont put me in the wrong here.