Elder Sub-Zero beat gods, Scorpion beat elder Sub-Zero. So the "God>Spectre" arguement is moot.

Scorpion beat the younger Sub-Zero is MK4.

Sub-Zero could freeze Scorpion, yes, but Scorpion can still teleport. It can go either way, but I really feel that things are stacked in Scorpion's favor.

I can ask it, in this forum you can ask anything concerning MK in general dude.

But anyway we all know that Boon would never have a game without the other, although MK 3 didn't have Scorpion in it surprisingly.He didn't show up until UMk3 came out shortly after MK 3 did(which only had subby)

But anyhow, Sub and Scorpion will always live on until A.boon wishes to kill the both off(this every fan must know) or B.MK dies which will happen like every other series sometime down the line sadly.

I know. Its just that most people are choosing who they favor more ; not who would win.

Yeah, I know but that will inevidably happen with all of these threads to some extent.Nothing you can do about that know what I mean?

But I'm looking at this match up from a power point of view strickly, I think both are cool but neither of them are my favs.

Sub Zero.

If Scorpion just tried to throw his spear,Sub Zero would freeze it and Scorpion and then kill him.


Besides,Scorpion gets owned too much in the new games,while Sub Zero doesnt.

Sub-Zero, both of them, have their share of losses. Taven beat Sub-Zero and Noob Saibot in MK:A's konquest, not only Scorpion. And Shujinko also beat Sub-Zero and Noob Saibot in MK:D's konquest, not just Scorpion. Infact, Shujinko and Taven beat damn-near everyone in Mortal Kombat.
And I don't believe the Scorpion encounter in MK:A's konquest is even canon because it contradicts the story-line. Not only that, but MK:SM can't even be considered canon.

And people are really forgetting about Scorpion's teleporting... anybody see what Nightcrawler did in X-Men 2? While I don't think Scorpion would teleport so sporadically like that, it is an example of what Scorpion could do.
Also, if Scorpion is frozen, I believe that Scorpion should be able to teleport out of his icey prison. Meaning that Sub-Zero's ice powers would have to be used more strategically and less offensively. He would have to make ice-clones to block Scorpion's attacks, ice-puddles to try and rob Scorpion of his footing, or even covering his own body in an ice-armor which would provide both a good defense and a mean offense.
But Scorpion still has his hellfire to take into account, which means that Sub-Zero will have trouble maintaining any obstacles for Scorpion... and could get burned.

Well, the konquest mode in MKA has been confirmed as indeed canon from midway to the fans in that chat not too long ago and online.

But I think there's still a few more things to be answered, actually a lot more but all in good time.

Jinko is pretty powerful, I mean he has the powers of the most powerful ninjas if you ask me so that alone gives him the ability to go toe to toe or better against his foes.

But yeah, as I said personally from before Sub would beat Scorpion undead or not because assume his ending in MKA is canon he's an ice god.

God's own in MK, enough said lol.

But even if it's not, I would still run with Sub because of the dragon medallion which makes him even more powerful that it ages him drastically in the process.

Being a god doesn't mean a whole lot in a fight, appearantly. Elder Sub-Zero beat gods without the dragon medallion, Scorpion beat elder Sub-Zero, Noob Saibot beat younger Sub-Zero with the dragon medallion. Then Quan Chi and Shang Tsung beat Raiden.

But I don't believe what occured with Scorpion is canon, because the elder gods aren't allowed to do anything, let alone bring back an entire clan in whatever form, or else they would had stopped Onaga themselves instead of sending Scorpion. And Scorpion's clan was appearantly very large, so I'd imagine that bringing all of them back would be incredibly risky. Is everyone forgetting about the One Being waking up?

Ah, the only other Scorpion fan on this site sticking up for him in this argument. While I don't think Scorpion's teleportation would play as big a role in the fight as you're suggesting GraveDigger, I'm sure that Sub-Zero's ice would mean little to nothing before long. At best, Sub-Zero might get a freeze or two in. By then, I think Scorpion might just start breathing or shooting fire at the ice blasts and then even covering himself in fire to thaw himself out. In fact, unless Sub-Zero can match Scorpion's physical strength, I would say that the specter's power and unshakable tenacity would get the better of Sub-Zero. Of course, Scorpion has been known to demonstrate an ego once in a while as seen in Mortal Kombat comic and in Deception's Konquest when he decided to fight the elder Sub-Zero in a fair fight and torture Quan-Chi slowly rather than getting the job done, respectively. If Scorpion decides to screw around with Sub-Zero, I think we all know that the Grandmaster is able enough to use that to his advantage.

As for Sub-Zero's angle, the Dragon Medallion and the armor both play an incredible role in this fight. We all know that Sub-Zero's power went through the roof after gaining the Dragon Medallion and that it was because of his armor that he was able to defeat so many Tarkatans in Deception. The combination of these two things might give Sub-Zero just enough fancy ice tricks and raw strength to match Scorpion's wrath...Temporarily at least. No matter how many things you put on Sub-Zero, he's still a mortal and mortals eventually grow tired. Scorpion on the other hand, doesn't stop going after someone until he rips them limb-from-limb.

Also, GraveDigger, are you sure Elder Gods CAN'T get involved or WON'T get involved. From what I understand of the Elder Gods, they rule the realms but are very VERY selfish and cruel as seen in how they refuse to get involved in any affairs that don't involve them simply because they don't affect them and how they screw people over in unbelievable ways just for looking at them cross-eyed. Also, isn't Onaga the One Being? Or at least isn't the One Being anyone who manages to take all of the Kamidogu, merge them together, and then consume them? If I'm missing something, please indicate where I can find this knowledge if you know where it is. To Chrome: My TakerMK-bashing is something I like to call a joke. Or in this case, a sarcastic sentence or phrase that may hint at thoughts or facts but are really not supposed to be taken seriously. To TakerMK: Sorry if it looked like I was legitimately yelling at you. I meant for my tone to come off as more friendly than me being pissed off.

I have kind of always wondered where they draw the line between an attack and a fatality. I mean, in all technicality, Sub-Zero could open the fight with this strong ice attack, and then rip Scorpion's head off, or why can't Scorpion just get a lucky shot and nail Sub-Zero in the heart, head, or any other vital organ? It'd be much more realistic if it just physical attacks, but I've got no idea where to draw the line with special attacks.

My vote still goes to Sub-Zero, just because I think his powers are above and beyond what Scorpion has at the moment. I really wish they had given us some kind of idea how much stronger Scorpion became when he was deemed Champion of the Elder Gods...

To Ailettes : I feel that Fatalities can only be performed on someone weaker than you since they're really just death blows. Some examples are how the Megazord never sliced through a monster at the beginning of a fight. They had to weaken them before they could charge the sword up and perform the attack. A MK reference to this situation can be seen in the opening for Shaolin Monks. Sub-Zero can't shatter Scorpion with one blow because Scorpion is too strong. However, he was able to rip that Masked Guard's spine out easily as the Guard was much weaker than him.

In summation, you have to either soften your foe up before you can finish something or they have to be unable to fend it off even if they're not dazed and confused.

I thought that too, but when I saw the Shaolin Monks opening clip, it looked like Sub-Zero covered him in a numbing frost. In the fighting games, it looks like they're encased in ice, though that slow motion step back could prove otherwise, that it's just a tougher coat of ice? Meh, who knows.

That head rip looked killer though, especially when he smacked Scorpion with it.

Which god exactly did Subby defeat the newer one I mean.(current sub) I doubt you were referring to that one.

I know the original Subby aka Noob now fought Fujin in MKM but he didn't kill him obviously since Fujin is still here.I assume he's the one you're referring to when you say elder, for a second I thought you were referring to an Elder God lol.

Quan-Chi and Shang Tsung defeated Raiden, they only knocked him out cold but didn't kill him(even if they tried I don't think they could personally) I still felt that personally they made those two seem way too powerful for that scene or made Raiden seem like he was throwing it partially.I mean he's a God for crying out loud lol.

Anyway, he blew them up in that intro which is why I want to see how they survived that in their bios hopefully or his once they're out.Because something is up with that.When he woke up he set off that self made Raiden nuke blowing up everything only the Onaga not getting harmed.

Raiden killed himself but came back as he would anyway...

Initially the One Being was to be Blaze or rumored to be Blaze, noticed how they didn't even mention it in MKA that much if at all.I'm trying to remember konquest mode bringing it up which I don't think they did.

I know prior to MKA coming out Boon etc talked about it.But unless they elaborate specifically about the One Being in MK8 I think that's done with personally.

And yeah I agree, the Elder Gods aren't allowed to interfere directly which brings me to not only scorpion's ending but Sub's.If he did indeed turn into an Ice God how can the Elder God's go after him to kill him?They have to send others like they attempted with Scorpion.

I'd like to see Raiden or or Fujin fight with the new Ice God.lol, pointless battle probably but someone can K.O. someone else.

As for the history of the two fighting, every time they portray it Subby always seems to beat Scorpion or he's winning at least.

MK:SM, sub tosses a spine right at his face knocking Scorpion on his ass lol.

In the old 3D MK movie they tell the story about the two, Subby freezes him and shatters Scorpion.

In the MK:A intro Subby and Scorpion are having a nice sword fight but Sub knocks Scorpion out.

Lets face it, Scorpion might have beaten the older Subby aka Noob now easier but gets his ass kicked whenever he fights the newer Sub-Zero it seems most of the time.

Elder Sub-Zero defeated Fujin, Suijin, Kajin, and Chijin. While he may not had killed them, he did prove to be their superior, just as Shang Tsung and Quan Chi proved to be Raiden's. That, combined with Armageddon's opening dialogue, it appears as though non-gods are capable of gaining quasi god-like power on their own.
And I view Mortal Kombat's gods like the Norse gods. While Greek gods and such were seemingly omnipotent, Norse gods could be defeated and even killed in battle, despite having divine power.

And really, the idea that the gods can't truly be killed kinda destroyed the severity of MK4, where Shinnok, Quan Chi, Scorpion, Reiko, etc. were killing gods in heaven. If they just come back, Shinnok's "war" kinda seemed redundant.

I believe it were the fans who speculated that Blaze was the One Being, but he was just a creature created by a powerful sorceress.

The old 3D mk movie showed how Scorpion originally died. In the MK:A opening, they were pretty much equal until Sub-Zero managed to knock Scorpion down... not out. And in the MK:SM intro, I will say that Scorpion didn't look like he was doing all that great, but he was going blow for blow with the elder Sub-Zero for the most part. Scorpion did lay Kung Lao on his ass though, lol.

I can't remember where I learned it from, but Mortal Kombat universe is all the One Being's dream. After he One Being fell asleep, the elder gods seperated his mind... this created the realms. If all the realms were to be united, the One Being's mind would become whole and he'll wake up. But the elder gods are also afraid of doing anything, because they're afraid that tampering inside of realms may awaken the One Being.

Fans have speculated that the One Being has been influencing Shinnok and Onaga, trying to get them to unite the realms so that he can wake up... but again, this is just fan speculation.

But like mkflegend said, the MK team seem to have kinda forgotten about the One Being story, at least in MK:A. Or... maybe not. The MK:A intro said that the warriors had grown too numerous and too powerful, and their constant fighting was weakening the realms... this, to me, translates to tearing down the One Being's mind. The "armageddon" the elder gods were trying to prevent may have actually been the One Being's death.

The One Being was influencing Shao Kahn and Onaga into uniting all the realms. This was stated in Deception. They never said anything about Shinnok or other bad guys, though.

Oh, ok.

I think Shinnok wanted to destroy the universe for revenge, and that's why he was trying to unite the realms. He must know about the One Being.

Yeah, they really should go more into the One Being other then it being an evil influence on certain characters.MK8 + I'm sure will go a bit more into it at some point.

Yeah, your post is no doubt referring to MKM Sub-Zero no doubt.I agree, Sub might have killed the other God's perhaps...it was really never confirmed but Fujin he just K.O. pretty much since Fujin is still here obviously.Same for Shinnok apparently...

Yeah, the regular God's of MK can be defeated as we've seen but so far apparently not killed.

Fujin, Raiden, Shinnok etc have yet to die.Then again in MK nobody really dies lol.But Raiden and Fujin I can't see killing off personally.

I see what you mean about Shang and Chi beating Raiden but still I was like you gotta be kidding me lol.If he wanted to he could have just killed them both in a blast which he did later anyway lol.Raiden or Dark Raiden rather...no doubt would probably do that at this point.

I guess they figured hey, we can't give the MK gods TOO much power to seem invincible just to balance things out.I mean not only the above events but also the whole new Johnny Cage vs. Shinnok gig.Most would think Shinnok would kill him with ease apparently that's not the case since Shinnok ran away from Cage and escaped thru a portal.

I can see them balancing things out for the more powerful guys, I mean even Kahn isn't as powerful as he used to be back in MK2, MK3 and UMK3 etc.

The Elder Gods however are and always should remain untouchable if you ask me.

Greek mythology is awesome btw, I've always been into all kinds of god's and myths besides the MK universe God's.

I'd have to go with Scorps.I've been a huge fan of his since day 1 and the fact that he always comes back with more anger a desire once defeated would give him the edge. I hope he is more of a main player in the next game and given a better storyline.
Can't take anything away from Subby though as most people have commented he is getting stronger game after game. The creators seem to be concentrating more on improving Sub Zero over Scorpion which is a bit dissapointing!

Mkflegend, I believe that the status of "elder god" is just that, a status. Both Shinnok and Raiden are elder gods, but they have been defeated by non-gods.
And elder Sub-Zero never killed the four elemental gods, he just defeated them. The younger Sub-Zero went to visit their temples in MK4 in order to ask them to forgivehis brother's aggressions, but they were off fighting Shinnok's armies.
But like I said, if the gods can't die, Shinnok's war was pointless.

And Canonballkid5, I believe Scorpion and Sub-Zero have remained fairly equal, but it's just that Sub-Zero's getting a better story.
In MK:DA, Sub-Zero got the dragon medallion which enhanced his power and Scorpion gained power from the lower reaches of the netherealm. Then in MK:D, Sub-Zero became more powerful by wearing the ancient cryomancer armor while Scorpion was given power by the elder gods.

Raiden and Shinnok were elder gods, not anymore.Raiden relinquished his status as we all know and Shinnok is a fallen meaning not as powerful obviously anymore as the once Elder God he used to be.

It's a bit more then a status, Elder Gods can't fight or get involved directly.They're just simply way too powerful and above everything else.

The sub zero gig, yeah I know that since Fujin, etc are still here.

Wow, what a thread- i've jus spent the last nine hours reading it!! (joke!)

Like someone along the way said, an MK game without sub and scorp would be rubbish, like (in my opinion) original MK3 ( i reckon the worst MK game) which midway ammended with ultimate and trilogy. So, i don't think either will die til that sad sad day when the series ends... but don't dwell on that!

Sub is getting more and more powerful but i hate the idea of an ice god. Its great having him with his arctik gang and their bow and arrows, something so strong about their simplicity- making sub a god would lose a lot of the ninja spirit of MK since, out of the other so-called 'ninjas', scorpions a spectre, noob's a wraith, rain's son of a god, ermacs a fusion of souls, smoke, cyrax and sektor are cyborgs, reptile and chameleon are... whatever they are.

My point is MK is famous for Ninjas but Sub is the only true human ninja. The ice god idea would mean losing a lot. part of what meakes sub amazing is the david and goliath thing- he shouldn't be tougher than all these gods and monsters cos he's just a human (ok, of outworld heritage but still)

MKs strength is very much the david and goliath thing- liu kang, another mere mortal, beating goro, shao kahn, shinnok. Shujinko beating just about everyone- how humble are his beginnings? Now we have shinnok running away from johnny cage- the seemingly weaker characters often are tougher

On this logic that MK is successful cos the seeming underdog often wins, scorpion would appear to be the invincible undead champ but i think sub would win for that very reason.

My votes with sub!

To Rayden: Interesting philosphy there. I never really thought about it but now that you mention it, the underdogs do seem to win a lot...except, of course, in Deadly Alliance when the powerful team beat the few measley warriors left to defend Earthrealm. Other than that, MK DOES seem to have this annoying habit of not letting their powerful figures flex their muscles. Either that or MK tends to favor the ones with virtues on their side (Sub-Zero is a decent guy who can forgive others whereas Scorpion's sole purpose for existing is to seek revenge; Shao Kahn was a tyrannical psychopath who practically bathed in the blood of his enemies whereas Liu Kang was more or less a modern day Hector, Rolland, etc; Shujinko, though naive and being used like a puppet, was able to defeat even the most powerful of MK's characters simply because he believed he was doing the right thing....and because Onaga was giving him some power too...). So, statistics aside, if this good vs evil thing really is true, then I guess Sub-Zero will always defeat Scorpion. Of course, that's IF this is all true and we throw their powers and tenacity out the window.

To MKFLegend : I won't argue that the Elder Gods are powerful. Whether or not they could win fights and don't simply have a vast variety of abilities (Ex: Shang Tsung has a lot of magic but he's not as good a fighter as Liu Kang has next to no special ablities.) I'm not so sure of though. Regardless, are you sure they CAN'T get involved and that it's not simply them REFUSING to get involved? I said this once but I'll say it again, I think the Elder Gods are just a bunch of snobs who like to sit up in the Heavens and pick on mortals, just like the Greek gods.

To GraveDigger: I'd like to think that Shinnok's war would have permantly killed the other gods whether it's because the forces of one god are responsible for the death of others so it has a sort of heavenly push behind it and not just simply Reiko smacking one god over the head with a club. To better explain what I mean, mortals may be able to kill gods but the gods will come back. I'd like to think that if a god kills a god or if someone working for or in the vicinity of a god kills another god, it'll make the death stick seeing as how it's like fighting fire with fire, hitting a god with the only thing that can truely effect it: god power. And if that's not the case, I guess Shinnok would kill all of the gods and take over the known universe in the time they spent regenerating or manipulate their infantile minds to order them to become his serveants.

Yes, I'm sure the Elder Gods can't get involved directly.They can have powerful influences or in Scorpion's case work for us or face oblivion like in his MKDA ending leading to MKD.Check it out and you'll see what I mean.

They can also foresee things, but just can't fight literally in mortal kombat.For one..they're not mortal lol.Even though some others like Raiden, Fujin, Shinnok, Shang Tsung, Quan-Chi etc are powerful they can still be defeated the elder gods are much more powerful and on a different plane of existence compared to everyone else.

First of all , I love both but then I started hating scorpion because of Ed boneless biased for scorpion as if Subzero had slept with his mom .

Now since I was born in 1991 , I remember it all . Subzero killed scorpion once , and stole the peice of shit for Quan shi , then Quan shi killed all of scorpion's clan and family and blamed it on subzero. Then scorpion being resurrected came back as the wrath he is to kill subzero for the misleading information. Again the human subzero killed the undead scorpion . But subzero's luck ran out when scorpion took subzero to the Neatherealms where scorpion gains his full powers from while subzero becomes weaker and there was the death of subzero . Now , that wasn't a problem for me because it is only fair but the problem was creating all those trailers showing scorpion being the stronger one , also in the cutscene we find scorpion is better , as if Ed boon is trying to make us forget how it all happened , which is subzero beating scorpion more than scorpion did to subzero . Don't forget that the second subzero , he demanded to fight scorpion to avenge his fallen brother , and he beat him in mortal kombat but he was captured by his cyber clan right before he delivers the final blow to scorpion . Remember the rules? When you fight in mortal kombat , you become a mortal and lose your immortality , so scorpion was saved from his death when they caught subzero and turned him into a robot . Also we see subzero killing scorpion in the beginning of armageddon . You see subzero's sword in scorpion's flesh .

In all that , had no problems with anything until Ed, Edd and Eddie decided to ruin everything. So judging by all that from a professional point of view , disregarding all the glowing eyes of scorpion and subzero's hard rock ice arms , I'd say Subzero would fucking beat evey mortal kombat character