Wow...this topic blew up..comments...

1. Ashrah is a lot tougher to handle to me than Darrius. Darrius is weak to turtling no matter what character you use. It's much easier for Ashrah to break down defenses to me.

2. Yayo and Thug, Shujinko is not better than Bo Rai Cho. What are you guys smoking? What in god's green earth made you come to that conclusion? It's not even close. f+3 is better than any move Shujinko has. It 's better than any move any character has in the entire game. His throw is better, the puke is deadly if used right and he has unmatched range due to f+3's glitchiness. Mid Tier and Low Tier characters stand a MUCH better chance vs Shujinko than they do vs Bo. Maybe you can say that Shujinko gives Bo Rai Cho problems in their head to head match up, but to say Shujinko is better than Bo overall is dumb.

3. Thug, Kira and Havik are not better than Sub-Zero. You give me a Havik or Kira that can beat my Sub-Zero in a series. I have beaten all the top Kira players and Havik players. Tell me how either of them are better.

4. Dirty D I assure you that I know how to use Liu Kang. Come to the PS2 and I will show you this. He is NOT better than Mileena. What MIleenas have you played? I strongly doubt you've faced a Mileena that is at the level of Dan's or mine. Mileena vs Liu is a terrible match up for Liu, and Mileena fairs a little better vs the other characters. He is not up there with Kobra because he's not even better than Darrius,Scorpion and Shujinko.

5. HJS, How is Li Mei not better than Hotaru? Please tell me how. KLD:2 and b+3 own everything Hotaru has. Li Mei is an excellent spacer and is a lot safer.

Raiden is not better than Nightwolf. He's stronger? Is it by that much really? 2,3,free throw,50/50 is more than enough damage to compete. Throw in the lightning/shoulder ram mix up and a great spacer with Vale Tudo u+2 and d+1 and you see why he's a little better. It's really a flip of the coin, but Nightwolf is a lot harder to defend against.

6. Konqrr, Tanya is overrated. Second Stance is not as safe as you believe. 3,2 seems safe, but it is rape by any moves that go long distances and the back dash cannot save you from them. Example of of these would be Sindels 4,4, Sub-Zero's dragon 1,1,2 and Bo Rai Cho's f+3 in weapon. Why is she NOT number 23?

Well, here is my list ...

1 brc
2 brc
3 brc
4 brc
5 brc
6 brc
7 brc
8 brc
9 brc
10 brc
11 brc
12 brc
13 brc
14 brc
15 brc
16 brc
17 brc
18 brc
19 brc
20 brc
21 brc
22 brc
23 brc
24 brc

There's no point making another list, all you need to know is that BRC owns everyone in this game ... brc = gg

you guys put n/s below bo and jinko below dairou. yall playing a different game cuz at high level, it doesnt work like that. you guys still think f3 is unbeatable, play bo'rai cho against molson or thug and they'll show you noob-smoke(short-range character) can beat f3 any day of the week. n/s dont need infinites or repeated otg's to be #1, molson and noobe already proved that. whats even funnier is that n/s is the most broken character in the game but yall still wont admit it.

when it comes to shujinko vs dairou, dairou gets beasted if the jinko player knows how to counter. by now everyone should know how to beat any dairou. dairou may be good but hes been giving too much credit, at high level he gets beasted by jinko, bo and n/s.

well if you keep losing with brc vs ns on a regular basis then you better start analyzing your gameplay .. xD.

without infinites, ns is nothing compared to brc.

Yayo, are you stupid? N/S can take on any character, but can also be beaten by any character. Take Scorpion as a prime example. Bo Rai Cho will always own Scorpion, while N/S gets owned by him. Same goes for Kenshi. N/S is NOT better than Bo Rai Cho and neither is Shujinko for obvious reasons. Use your head guys and stop making stupid posts. And also, Tanya is quite over-rated. If you turtle that shit down, Tanya becomes useless.

quik if im stupid then i guess top players who agrees that N/S > Shujinko > Bo > Dairou are stupid too. open your eyes, you're playing a different game then we are. go play against molson or thugs n/s and your bo will get owned, if noobe was still around your bo will get owned by jinko. if your tiers list is so fucking accurate then why is there 3 versions? actually do the research so that next time u decide to make a tiers list, you actually know whats going on.

Hotaru has his throw, huge damage from any pop up or plant, great 50/50, Pi Gua is amazing, lava burst.
Li Mei is a good spacer but that's about all she has and that not enough.
In PAL you fight Li Mei once in 8,209,153 matches so I don't know much about her but from the little I know Hotaru is better.

As you said, Raiden vs Nightwolf is a close match, to me Raiden is actually the harder one, first style, teleport, Jujitsu d+3,d+4 all make Raiden better in my opinion.

Tanya is not overrated, Second stance d+4 and d+1 own, 3,2 is not the mid to use.
With Tanya the mids are, weapon b+1, b+1 is a pop up and if blocked and the other players try to punish b+3 plants them and you end with a 50/50, on hit either b+2,2 for plant and 50/50 or drill kick to free throw.
The other and better one is u+4, its safe, hits mid, sidesteps, and a pop up, it pops them up higher than any pop up in the game.
In order to connect the drill kick you need to back dash and then f,f+3, then free throw ofcourse.
You also didn't mention Tanya's best thing and what her game is all about, glitch throw combo, an easy 48 glitch throw combo, after the 48 you get another 50/50.
b+3,f+3 are two lows that does 16%, invisibilty, drill kick into a free throw and much more.

Does is matter if N/S can beat Bo? Just because N/S beats Bo makes him #1? So let's say this...

You and I are in a tournament with 24 people. I lose to 22 people, and then face you. You beat the other 22 people, but you lose to me. Now am I better than you, overall? NO! Use common sense...

What Quik said is 100% true. Darrius overall beats Kobra in a series at the highest level, but Kobra is better vs the majority of the other characters. Kobra can hang with NS easy. Darrius gets raped by NS at high level.

You people need to think outside of the box and not just concentrate solely on one on one matches.

if n/s can beast bo he shouldnt have a problem beasting everyone else. top players who use n/s can kill kobra, dairou, bo, jinko. not even molson or noobes n/s lose to scorpion from what i hear. everything n/s has is either unbreakable and/or setups for free damage what more do u need?

To say NS can "beast" BRC so he shouldn't have a problem with anyone else is kinda silly. An example would be that Ermac gives Liu Kang problems, but Liu Kang does much better vs the majority of the roster than Ermac does.

Scorpion vs NS is incredibly frustrating for NS since everytime he does the cloud Scorpion has a free hell fire for the most part.

Indeed I love using Scorpion against N/S
I can give some good matches against BNR's N/S, his is freaking godlike

Other than him, I can't recall the last time I lost to a N/S when I'm Scorpion

HJS, the fact that there's not a lot of Li Mei players in Europe is probably why you think Hotaru is better than Li Mei. He really isn't. Li Mei give many characters who have poor weapon problems. KLD is the ULTIMATE spacing stance. That's all she has? No, she has a great prirotize move in d,b+4 which gives her a free throw, hits mid and covers a huge amount of distance. She has extremely good lows in Mi Zong b+3 and KLD: d+1. Hotaru can beat Li Mei, don't get it twisted, and he's also a good character, but he doesn't have anything that Li Mei can't do better except a better throw.

Raiden's first stance is good, but is weak to low pokes. f+1 is his only anti low, and only block that is rape. HIs teleport is useful but overrated. If anticipated, Riaden will get raped. The only good move in jujutsu is d+3. d+4 is useless.

As for Tanya, do you think I do not know about these tactics? Regardless, she's still not that good. She's a decent character. Just because she's at 23 doesn't mean she's bad. Even Kira isn't all that bad. It's just that everyone else is better than them. Tanya is ineffective at mid range and has an extremely difficult time maintaining offensive pressure. Her best option at mid range is d+4 which is beat by lots of mid attacks such as Ermac's 1,3,4,4,4 in axe stance. She needs d+4 to hit or the drill kick to really start her 50/50s, which is when she's at her best.

I played Molson today...

Bo vs. N/S - 6/10
Bo vs. Kobra - 5/1
Bo vs. Scorpion - 5/1


In the Bo vs. N/S matches, I messed up a lot near the end which costed me a couple of games. The other matches were a breeze for Bo, while N/S would struggle with both Kobra and Scorpion. Bo is the better character, just accept it.

molson and thug are very great players.. BUT why are they losing to my sindel and mileena w/ their BEAST N/S?? see yayo you dont get it, its not whos the best of the high tiers, ITs who can compete the best vs the WHOLE cast, not one single character.. bo and dai have the best chances vs the WHOLE cast. i will give you this tho, i gave dairou way to much credit because of vlad. but i come to realize that his dai is full of lag.. i have video of how dairou plays in 2nd stance w/ no lag online, and the recovery is nothing like how daves is. see back+1 can be whored non stop IF it doesnt touch his foe, but if it touches a blocking foe, dai is suppose to stay in that motion quite a bit longer leaving him open for damage. same w/ liu kangs f+2 in 1st stance when i get time ill post how its suppose to look like vs a non laggy foe. so saying that i will say it should be
1~bo rai
2~N/S
3~jinko (if you add the free throws and that deadly 70% combo)
4~dairou (dairou w/ a little bit of lag makes him godly!!)
5~darrius
6~kobra~so many OTGS in 1st stance. just face the kunt and thugs to see what i mean, i really need to get those otgs down w/ him

and OMG did you guys know that w/ smoke you dont need to side step to get the free throw, if timed right you can just plant and walk up for the free throw. NS is so fucking broken. and all of these OTGS subby has it in 2nd stance, why i didnt notice this before is beyond me. ermacs 2,2,2 in 1st is one too, which makes facing him a bitch.. i think sindels fu jow 111 is one, but i need to practice it more...

the throw system is what has made this game so broke. i wanna face people w/ zero throws, to see how much BETTER the matches would be..

Yayo - what you said about jinko's flaming fist is simply wrong bro. your comparing teleslam to f3? teleslam is good, and like you said it shouldnt be spammed but used as a suprise move, but it doesnt counter f3. good times to use it are after 1, 1, 1, cs, 2 backdash, buffer teleslam, 1, 1, 1, cs, 4, 4, backdash, buffer teleslam and flaming fist, backdash, teleslam.

nah yall dont get it, its not the players its the characters

look at it like this


say it was God vs God (not bo ns w/e but the acctual god)

one was bo the other was Jinko


Tele Slam has longer reach than f3 slam >f3

Slam leads to free throw that leads to over 100%

f3 leads to free throw that leads to 99%

jinko has more to use than bo, half yall playin counter like scrubs this is why yall take these weak ass tiers and put bo on top becuz yall scared of f3 like noobs.


now lets say its NS vs bo

in every game ive played vs a NS with bo ive gotten hit atleast once, now if they knew how to use NS to his Potential with OTGs and Free clouds and a free grab this leads to way over 100% bo loses everytime

out of 10 games bo will lose 7 on avarage i will admit its a good fight but in the end if the ns players uses them to thier full potential bo loses Lke for instance

up+4 d+1 b+1 on wall, d+1 free grab Becuz they can block that d+1, b+1 on wall Free cloud cs, 4,4,4, 2,1,1,cs Free grab or free cloud, bo has noone of this, you dont take into count How players use these Characters you take into count what they have. all in all NS > JInko > Bo

if yall would stop playin counter like scrubs you would realize this. even ask moe he will tell you the same thing. its not the player its the character. *edit* ohyeah almost forgot. on a Different note, Darr >ashrah Darr has 3 Otgs 3!!! darr has 2 grabs, 2!!! darrs 50/50 is far better than ashrah this series would be even almost but with darr ontop by 1 or 2 games. it dont matter if darrs ontop by 1/2 a game HE STILL WON. this is so much of a joke its not funny, Darr grabs f+1 f+1, 3, df+3, ss, Grab, 56% this is like 95% or so. ashrahs best combo ive done is like 80%

im not sure why you guys think OTGS are legit but infinites arent. to me both are the same.

1~both are glitches (attacks that werent intended)
2~both can not be defended
3~both can lead to 100% + ~ 100% equals, whats that INFINITE. all power darined by a combo!


so in my book you OTG me which alot of your fuckers do im gonna infinite form now on.. OTG are crap inmy book and im sick of dealing w/ it..

Thug, i never said teleslam aint got a longer reach - its not safe on a whiff bro. f3 is.

Why waste all the time writing that N/S combo out. Judging from what you're doing, you might as well just do, throw, d+1, throw, d+1, throw, etc. Same concept... Also, there is no such thing as a free cloud as long as I'm blocking.

Yes there is, b+1 is a free cloud, ask Konqqr, ask Check, ask yayo, its been tested, even Sub has free clone



and OTGs arnt infs, you can Break otgs unlike d+1 grab repeat if you dont want to take the 100% just break it, if not to bad

i hear ya man. unsafe attacks made safe online via lag

1~liu's f+2
2~dairous back+1 2nd stance


for shits and giggles me vs phatgurll gotta love that lag lol now picture her as dairou :-X



as for tanya if were adding OTGS and gitches she is so in the 10-15 area. the screw glitch is easy to do when theres little to no lag..

and when they are done to your foe when hes out of breakers.. ITS WHAT oh yeah a infinite..
versatile does tons of free clouds vs me. even if im blocking properly.. its all in the timing that guys like vers and thug have... it annoying as hell tho

Look at the characters in the game and tell me who Tanya owns? Kira? That's about it. Unless Tanya can get in close, she's done for. She can't do shit from far away, so turtle her down and she's done. The invisibility serves no purpose if tanya can't get near the opponent. You guys talk about the drill kick while being invisible. Newsflash, the drill kick SUCKS. It can be blocked both high and low. When it's blocked, Tanya takes massive damage. Shit, Raiden's flying thunder god move is better than the drill kick. At least that move hits mid. I love playing Tanya, but she just suck.

LMAO @ the PhatGurl lag. Dan your vids are getting better WHATUP. BIGGEST UPSET EVER FOR YOUR TEAM YESTERDAY.