I'm still not sure what people think the run button adds to the game. In the MK3 series of games, all seemed to do as far as fighting the computer was make the AI cheaper. Jumping in the air almost guaranteed a jumpkick from the AI even if they were across the stage thanks to the run button.

As far as fighting people, most of those that I fought against in the arcade used the run button sparingly at best. It was almost a way of saying "I'm in this animation, please hit me!" I know the MK team wanted to have this feature in order to speed the game up, but I just think that it does more harm than good.

Still though, you're obviously entitled to your opinion. I've agreed with you about a LOT of stuff in the past Pred, so maybe this will just have to be one of those things that an exception. No biggie.

I do agree that the air combo system from MKA was both hilarious and absurd. The particular act of smacking someone in the air and watching them do a complete summersault while staying in the same exact spot was beyond silly.



Yeah, I think it's high time the MK team finally starts giving some real individuality to characters beyond unique looking special moves. To me, that's very old school. Having the same throw animation for all characters, to me, also feels not only lazy, but old school and not in a good way.



Just wondering, but how do you think the MK team could accomplish something like this? I think they wanted to give people a sort of freedom in their combos with MK:DA. You'd have a few starter moves, but then you'd have the option of taking a combo in a few directions. My favorite combo was always Scorpions high kick, low kick, high kick that pops the opponent up. You could do three more high kicks, two high kicks and his fiery back flip move, hell fire etc...

So there was flexibility in that system... It just wasn't very enjoyable over all for some reason. At least not to me. Even though the combos had a lot of variations to them that you could add, everything still felt very canned. Also, with the absence of a large amount of throws, a lot of special moves and an overall deemphasis on special moves, the combos became SUCH a focal point that all matches basically turned in to a game of "who can get the longest dial-a-combo" just like MK3.

I'm personally more in favor of a system that focuses more on a variety of attacks as well as defensive maneuvers. To me, the dial a combo variations aren't variety. Having stance changes for certain characters where it makes sense, having counters, throws, multi-part throws, fun to use regular moves, joint locks, a ground game, parrys, juggles, special move juggles, escapes, dodges, deflections... The list goes on... All in addition to combos.

To me, those are the types of things that could and should provide variety and keep me playing.



I'm not sure how you accomplish that. What do you mean?



I'm also a fan of HP, LP, HK, LK. I like the idea of pressing a button and knowing what type of attack my character will do. I'm not sure why they ever went to the 1,2,3,4 system. Perhaps it was because they didn't like having to tie moves to certain buttons? I dunno. To me that just seems like lazy programming.

Knowing what types of attacks will be done if certain buttons and directions with buttons can be very helpful. It also makes the command list feel more organized, if that makes any sense. I guess I mean that it doesn't feel like all of your characters moves are just random button presses, but that there's a logic behind why pressing something does something. Again, not sure that makes sense.



If the MK team had 2 throws, 2 counters and a high and low reversal that were ALL character specific, I'd consider that a HUGE step forward for this series.

I'd still like to see some multi-part throws added in for specific characters where it makes sense. I think that MK could really put their own stamp on that type tactic given that most games multi-throws involve joint locks and bone breaking sound effects.

I could see the MK team having a field day with something like that, actually. But I doubt we'll ever see that happen, so while 2 character specific throws sounds a bit light for all characters, I'll take that if it means getting counters and reversals for everyone, without the need for some meter to fill up or limited usage etc.

To me, that's just basic fundamentals of a modern fighting game.



I think that it would be nice to simply have a recovery move so that you can land on your feet, even if that might make things look wonky at times. Not sure how it would work, but at the very least, MK could really benefit from having an improved ground game.

Why after so many years, we still can't attack downed opponents is beyond me. I'd love to see a system where you could attack downed opponents with a variety of moves and maybe even allow the downed opponent to counter or parry or escape those moves.



I agree 110%. Throwing in that last move or two, whether it's a jump kick/fan throw or that projectile that gives your combo that final exclaimation point, I'm definitely in favor of those types of air combos.



I think that there's space for parrys. I think that maybe some characters could counter and some could deflect/parry. Maybe some characters even get both. These types of moves could be used to balance out characters. Maybe someone like Jax, who just seems more throw heavy to me in general might have several counters and throws but no parries. Again, just an example.

Great ideas overall though man! I might not agree with everything, but I like where you're at on most of this stuff.

Ideal combo system...

Even though I haven't played MKvsDC, from the clips I've seen, I like the combo system. However, I definitely do not want to see close kombat and free fall kombat return, I hated those, killed the fluidity totally. The most stupid thing of all were the free fall kombat situations in which both characters would get hit, but the energy meter would go down only for the character that was the last one to get hit. I hope I wrote that in an understandable form.

Anyway, please, get rid of those silly combo breakers, those are hilarious.

I'd also like for special moves to do more damage outside combos. They are special moves, they shouldn't do less damage than a simple hit...

As some of you have already said, it's a shame that every combo ends up being a juggle combo. They should tone down the juggling definitely.

I guess a combination of string combos and short chain combos would work well. String combos would add to the variety and could give you more space for improvisation too.

Common moves should all be executed differently by each character, you know, each character should move differently. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the moves would look different, but they would do the same damage and they would be equally easy/difficult to execute for each character.

Also, I wouldn't like to see those multiple fighting styles like in MKDA-MKA back. One style that could be a mixture of more various styles per character is fine.

I'm not sure about parrying during a combo, but I do think that every character should have a high/mid parry and a low parry as a means of a defense move. I was also thinking about the backdash and how it could lead to further escaping. For example, someone like Kitana and Sonya could do a backflip while a character like Scorpion does a backward roll. I'd say it could be a B, B + 3 + 4 command or something.



Sorry about that. I should have been clearer. Instead of having a block button in which the character just stands there and blocks hits, I'm thinking of timed defense moves, and these would be the simpler defensive techniques as opposed to something like a reversal/counter. They could be quickly followed by a counter attack such as a strike or a kick. The idea is that this sort of system would help with the flow of combat.

For example, let's say that Johnny Cage has a Karate base (I'm thinking along the lines of Shorin Ryu and American Kenpo influences.) to his fighting style. He could do a high cross block (raises and crosses his arms) to block a high attack and then follows up with a front kick to knock the opponent back.



I have only played a wee bit of DOA3, and I'm not really into that series anyway. Besides MK, I like playing Tekken and Soul Calibur on a very casual level.



I imagine that the defensive moves should vary depending on the character. I used Scorpion as an example in which R2 + X (on the PS3) switches him to Hicho no Kamae (Flying Bird Posture) to evade a low attack, and he can follow by a strike (e.g. knife hand strike) or a kick (e.g. front stomp kick). When it comes to escape counter throws, it would have to be within a small time frame. I'm not sure how it would work in terms of throws like the 1 + 3 throw that Paul Phoenix has.



I kind of see where you're coming from about Tekken's system feeling a bit clunky. MK's fighting system should feel more along the lines of Soul Calibur's in terms of speed and fluidity. I do think that in terms of the face buttons, it should either retain the attack 1-4 system or have something similar to Tekken's except have it be lead punch/kick and rear punch/kick instead of left and right. For those that are suggesting the old HP, LP, LK, HK system, I don't think that's a good idea. The low kick in the old MK games wasn't even a low kick. It's more like a mid-level kick.

I have thought that if the attack 1-4 system is retained, the way it is set up could be different with different characters. For example, one character might have a left and right punch and kick like in Tekken or another character with a lead and rear punch and kick system. Also, there could be characters who have a quick, mid, strong punch/kick system like in Killer Instinct. Even though that would be complicated, it would make the gameplay much more diverse.

I was referring to the parries with the B + 1 + 3 command. B + R2 for the high/mid parry and DB + R2 for the low parry isn't a problem for me. It would make more use of that button. What about the other shoulder buttons?

Nephrite, you're definitely right, why are all the good combos juggles? Doesn't Ed Boon realize that juggling will only get you so far? I say do more ground combos, it seems more realistic. Say for example, I stun move followed by a another stun move and another stun move ends a combo. I honestly don't want Mortal Kombat to be just a jugglefest, it should have a variety of combos and go very deep. Like have more parries, joint locks, and so much more a fighting game can have.

Hey Baraka, thanks for the explanation on the differences between MK:D and MKvsDC. Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier but I wanted to read everyone's comments on this thread, before I made my own. Plus, I've been quite busy lately.

Taking a look at these statements:




One of the problems I think that could arise from this sort of system, is that, because you say the timing of the input of a dodge/escape/deflect button, doesn't have to be very precise, then the person inputting the command to dodge/escape/deflect, might never end up performing this animation. The reason is because, lets say a punch executes and connects in a short amount of frames. How then are you expected to dodge or deflect if your real enemy becomes "timing"? I mean for this always to work, the animations would have to come out slower than normal, but then you have the possibility of no one getting hit for at lest a while, since either side can see telegraphed movement and think/react accordingly. Now, I can see this working with the slower moves your enemy performs and then dodging, escaping or deflecting from there.

Also, if we look at this example you made:

"a player punches, the other dodges and goes for a throw, the player counters that throw in to a throw of their own..."

Ok, so if we take a look at that scenario, I can see a problem comes to light, because whats keeping the other player from doing a counter throw of the counter throw? It seems like in this scenario it would just come down to sort of a "quick time event" or, "press the throw button as fast as you can" sort of thing.

Other than that, I think it also comes down to the amount of animations the game has implemented for your dodge/escape/deflect button. Which might be more than the developers care to actually offer, for example, for every receiving attack. And I think you would have to do too much thinking for the kind of fighting you would like to see which is akin to choreographed fighting.

Also, I wanted to ask you, did you mean to say the dodge/escape/deflect button, would also have directional inputs, in one of your posts I read? And just so you know, I'm in no way dissing your ideas. If anything, I take it as a learning experience.

So overall, this kind of system might work in a game but not all the time. At least this is how it appears logically. If I've learned anything about fighting games like Virtua Fighter or Tekken, is that variables are constant.