Story Mode from the bad guys perspective
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posted07/28/2014 06:58 PM (UTC)by
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Zwulle
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When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground.

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07/20/2014 06:13 PM (UTC)
If this has been asked or stated before, please forgive me. I haven't stumbled upon it. So here it goes:

I've been browsing through the forums and it seems like most of us agree on one thing: MK9 story mode was fun, but the bad huys are mostly there to get their ass handed to them and some of them are only in there as story fillers. Meaning they don't contribute anything besides being knocked down a couple times. Characters I'm thinking of are Reptile, Baraka and Sheeva for instance. That could and should be done better. Characters in there needto be more than just punching bags. Some of us fear that D'vorah and Ferra/Torr are the next in line and that would be a waste of new and fresh characters.

How about a Story mode like MK vs DC? Seeing it from both perspective, you can also play with the bad side. Of course everything stands or falls with who or what the big threat is. I somehow feel like one of the classics gets godlike powers and is a threat to all the realms. If that be the case, watching it from both sides could work.

Wondering if anyone feels the same about this.
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Seriphym
07/26/2014 04:33 PM (UTC)
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Sheeva is actually one of my favorite kombatants, and it really bothered me that she, along with Baraka, and Reptile were only there to get beat up. I really would have enjoyed seeing something more of them in story mode.

Honestly, I would rather play as the bad guys over the good guys in previous games, and would have preferred it if everyone had a chapter. I doubt this will happen though, so I at least hop for a large role for each character.

I kind of hope that Baraka, Sheeva, and Reptile make a return, that way they can be redeemed. Unfortunately Sheeva and Reptile have never had developed stories, and I would like it if they would. I'm just tired of the whole, Liu Kang is the champion, and Scorpion and the Sub-Zero feud.
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DG1OA
07/26/2014 05:34 PM (UTC)
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I'm all for letting villains be more than glorified jobbers, but one thing proponents of villain-centric story modes often seem to overlook, is that it wouldn't make sense for most of the villains not to kill their beaten opponents in cold blood. And if they killed everyone they met, unless it was either a large roster full of cannon fodder characters, good, evil and neutral alike, or most of their opponents were always resurrected afterwards, or fought lot of generic NPCs, well, there wouldn't be much story now, would there?

Then again, I'm not sure it made sense for every heroes not to kill their opponents either, so maybe it wouldn't be much of an issue.
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DVorah
07/26/2014 05:45 PM (UTC)
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The bad thing of villians is that if they win, everybody dies... When goodguys win everyone (even the bad-guys) will mostly still be alive.

I kinda dislike this... Because we can't see more awesome stories for the badguys in this way and all but the big-bad-boss and his right hand sorcerers will end up as punching bags...

In this next game, I hope we play as ALL, not just Ed Boon & Co's love childs + Jade who only serves another characters escape...

I really disliked the MK2011 storymode and I hope X makes it up to me.
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projectzero00
07/26/2014 05:54 PM (UTC)
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I really really wanted to see the story mode from the bad guys' perspective. I was really disappointed that some of my favorite characters (Mileena, Baraka, Sheeva) only there to get their ass beaten. I pray to the Elder Gods that MKX fixes that.

Quote>DG1OA Wrote:
I'm all for letting villains be more than glorified jobbers, but one thing proponents of villain-centric story modes often seem to overlook, is that it wouldn't make sense for most of the villains not to kill their beaten opponents in cold blood. And if they killed everyone they met, unless it was either a large roster full of cannon fodder characters, good, evil and neutral alike, or most of their opponents were always resurrected afterwards, or fought lot of generic NPCs, well, there wouldn't be much story now, would there?

Then again, I'm not sure it made sense for every heroes not to kill their opponents either, so maybe it wouldn't be much of an issue.


That's a great point you're making there. However I think it would be easy to overcome this problem. Villains indeed would make sense to kill their opponents normally. And tbh if they were to kill off a certain character, I would rather that happen after they lost in kombat, than have Sindel appear out of nowhere and massacre everyone!
So as I was saying there could be a few occasions were the villain would kill his opponent and a few were the opponent could escape, or have reinforcements arrive, or show them striking their opponent unconscious (like Jade and Liu Kang) just not killing them with a fatality, or they could just pause the match after you win and then keep showing them fighting in cinematic view until something else happens. Kinda like some of the good guys fought each other and after the match the story progressed somehow without the character that was defeated getting killed. I don't know if I'm making any sense or getting my point across lol. But I think they could do tons of stuff to avoid everyone getting killed after each fight.
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RazorsEdge701
07/26/2014 06:02 PM (UTC)
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MK9 already had villains not killing their opponents.

We see Ermac beat Johnny Cage during MK2 and Kahn didn't even call for the 'Finish Him". Which is weird because Kahn wanted Kitana to kill that nameless monk she beat so much that he did it himself.

In the first tournament, Shang never calls out "Finish Him" either, except for TWICE, one time at the beginning when Johnny Cage refuses (and that was Johnny's SECOND fight, why did he want him to kill Baraka, but not Reptile?), and another time when Cyrax refuses to kill Johnny.

You NEVER hear him say it when somebody who actually WOULD kill people like Scorpion wins a match.

Also, Sonya was eliminated from the tournament sometime offscreen and she wasn't killed.

Smoke was eliminated from MK2 offscreen and he wasn't killed.

So...yeah, pretty inconsistent.
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squirt007nc
07/26/2014 07:01 PM (UTC)
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I'm a hero guy. Fuck the villains it's always right they lose. Also didn't the villains win in mk:da, mk deception, and mk armageddon? The good guys win for once and you complain....
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RazorsEdge701
07/26/2014 07:03 PM (UTC)
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The good guys won Deception.

And I'd argue Quan Chi and Shinnok won MK9.
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kamouniyak
07/26/2014 07:04 PM (UTC)
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Story mode from the bad guys perspective is a must!
But for this they have to put some effort into it and create good motivations, war tactics and interesting dialogue. I remember the scene in Armageddon where Taven sneaks into Shao Kahn's throne room and hears the 4 villains: the Emperor, the Dragon King, Quan Chi and Shang Tsung. Quan Chi is the only one who seems worthy of a villain while the dialogue shows 3 other retarded warlords. Onaga reigned for thousands of years and was supposedly a good military commander and ruler that ensured prosperity for the realm. Yet all he can say is "To waarrr!" Shao Kahn relies much on his strength but is not an idiot (I very much enjoyed the chess game in the Mortal Kombat Conquest series). Shang is also old and wise. Shinnok slaps around the commander of his forces in Earthrealm and strongest hope for the Armageddon prize on his side, even though Daegon himself is a more than ten thousands of years old founder of the biggest criminal esoteric organization o Earth, so should not be a moron.
If MK 2011 had only heroes storyline, I would like the new game to feature only villains storyline and end with their victory. How kool would that be?
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DG1OA
07/26/2014 11:21 PM (UTC)
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I just remembered, there are other cases of villains not killing heroes other than RazorsEdge's example: MK vs DC universe, and Injustice.

The Joker got a chapter in both games, and he did not kill anyone. And neither did Lex Luther, Shang Tsung, or Scorpion.

So indeed, playable villains don't have to give in to their murderous nature. But it's a little goofier for them not to kill their foes, particularly for someone like Baraka. Though it'd be interesting to know how Baraka would interact with his downed opponents without killing them.
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squirt007nc
07/26/2014 11:27 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
The good guys won Deception.

And I'd argue Quan Chi and Shinnok won MK9.


how? in the end Onaga tricked Shujinko and got the kamidogu to claim his army. how did the good guys win?
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Rockchalk5477
07/26/2014 11:32 PM (UTC)
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squirt007nc Wrote:how? in the end Onaga tricked Shujinko and got the kamidogu to claim his army. how did the good guys win?

Onaga did get the Kamidogu and took control of the Dragon Army, but Shujinko managed to gather all sorts of warriors together, absorb their power, and beat the crap out of Onaga, removing him from Reptile's body with the help of Nightwolf (even though Scorpion was destined to do so.)
Nightwolf then bound Onaga's soul to the Netherrealm, and everybody went home.

See Shujinko's ending as well as Nightwolf's.
Also, Shujinko and Nightwolf's Armageddon bios state clearly what happened.
[Edit: And, Onaga's.]
Shujinko: Onaga was defeated. I had absorbed the fighting styles of scores of warriors and unleashed an assault on the Dragon King, purging his soul from this existence. His body collapsed - but after a moment of horrific cracking and twisting, it was the lifeless shape of Reptile that lay before me.
Nightwolf: After imprisoning Onaga's corrupt soul, I was released from the Netherrealm. I passed through the spirit world before emerging in Earthrealm, surrounded by a pack of wolves, my spirit guides. I had only faint memories of that brief journey... or did it last an eternity?
Onaga: I had nearly regained my throne as Emperor of Outworld when my plans were undone. My pawn Shujinko had grown more powerful than I ever anticipated. Rallying warriors to his cause, he absorbed their fighting abilities and shattered the six Kamidogu, rendering me vulnerable. Only the amulet I had retrieved from the sorcerer Quan Chi gave me protection. But as Shujinko landed his final blow, an outside force simultaneously ensnared my soul and expelled me from my host body. I found myself bound to a rune in the Netherrealm.
Good guys won.
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squirt007nc
07/26/2014 11:34 PM (UTC)
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Rockchalk5477 Wrote:
squirt007nc Wrote:how? in the end Onaga tricked Shujinko and got the kamidogu to claim his army. how did the good guys win?

Onaga did get the Kamidogu and resurrect the Dragon Army, but Shujinko managed to gather all sorts of warriors together, absorb their power, and beat the crap out of Onaga, removing him from Reptile's body (even though Scorpion was destined to do so.)
Nightwolf then bound Onaga's soul to the Netherrealm, and everybody went home.

See Shujinko's ending as well as Nightwolf's. Also, Shujinko and Nightwolf's Armageddon bios state clearly what happened:
Shujinko: Onaga was defeated. I had absorbed the fighting styles of scores of warriors and unleashed an assault on the Dragon King, purging his soul from this existence. His body collapsed - but after a moment of horrific cracking and twisting, it was the lifeless shape of Reptile that lay before me.
Nightwolf: After imprisoning Onaga's corrupt soul, I was released from the Netherrealm. I passed through the spirit world before emerging in Earthrealm, surrounded by a pack of wolves, my spirit guides. I had only faint memories of that brief journey... or did it last an eternity?
Good guys won.


your right forgot about that.
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Zwulle
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About Me

When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground.

07/27/2014 12:30 AM (UTC)
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squirt007nc Wrote:
I'm a hero guy. Fuck the villains it's always right they lose. Also didn't the villains win in mk:da, mk deception, and mk armageddon? The good guys win for once and you complain....


Dude... The good guys have been winning quite a lot of times, especially during the classics. Otherwise Earth would have been merged with Outworld for a long time now. Things wouldn't have lead to Armageddon if the bad guys won during those early games.

It's not that I don't want the heroes to win. I just want the bad guys to be more than a bunch of characters showing up and getting their as kicked all the time. Where's the development in that? That's all I'm saying.

And even if the bad guys win their battles, they don't have to kill, right? I know, it's suitable most of the times. As stated here, there are examples in MK9's story mode having good guys lose off screen and they survived. So MK has already done it. We just weren't allowed to see it or play through it ourselves.
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Jaded-Raven
07/27/2014 12:34 AM (UTC)
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I'd like for Story Mode to represent ALL the characters, not just one side.
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Zwulle
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About Me

When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground.

07/27/2014 12:37 AM (UTC)
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Jaded-Raven Wrote:
I'd like for Story Mode to represent ALL the characters, not just one side.


You mean, play as all the characters during story mode? That would be awesome, yet extremely difficult to pull off I guess.
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Jaded-Raven
07/27/2014 12:44 AM (UTC)
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Zwulle Wrote:
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
I'd like for Story Mode to represent ALL the characters, not just one side.


You mean, play as all the characters during story mode? That would be awesome, yet extremely difficult to pull off I guess.


If the Story Mode is going to be in chapters like MK9, then yes, very difficult. However, I'd like it if you could choose a character, any from the roster, and then watch Story Mode be played out through their eyes.

E.g., you choose Sub-Zero, you fight maybe up to 6-8 people while going through his side of the story. Afterwards you can choose another character, like Cassie, and then you play her side of the Story Mode while fighting 6-8 people. And if Subbie fights Cassie along his storyline, then Cassie will fight Subbie along her storyline as well.
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Zwulle
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When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground.

07/27/2014 12:50 AM (UTC)
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Jaded-Raven Wrote:
Zwulle Wrote:
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
I'd like for Story Mode to represent ALL the characters, not just one side.


You mean, play as all the characters during story mode? That would be awesome, yet extremely difficult to pull off I guess.


If the Story Mode is going to be in chapters like MK9, then yes, very difficult. However, I'd like it if you could choose a character, any from the roster, and then watch Story Mode be played out through their eyes.

E.g., you choose Sub-Zero, you fight maybe up to 6-8 people while going through his side of the story. Afterwards you can choose another character, like Cassie, and then you play her side of the Story Mode while fighting 6-8 people. And if Subbie fights Cassie along his storyline, then Cassie will fight Subbie along her storyline as well.


Never thought of it that way That could work in my eyes! That way any character has there time to shine.

But again, there's a lot of time spent there for NRS if they gonna do it this way. Hard for Cassie as well, because she's probably entering story mode later on. She's just a kid when the story starts...
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KungLaodoesntsuck
07/27/2014 12:52 AM (UTC)
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I don't really care either way.

I just want to see the overall story.
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Jaded-Raven
07/27/2014 12:54 AM (UTC)
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Zwulle Wrote:
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
Zwulle Wrote:
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
I'd like for Story Mode to represent ALL the characters, not just one side.


You mean, play as all the characters during story mode? That would be awesome, yet extremely difficult to pull off I guess.


If the Story Mode is going to be in chapters like MK9, then yes, very difficult. However, I'd like it if you could choose a character, any from the roster, and then watch Story Mode be played out through their eyes.

E.g., you choose Sub-Zero, you fight maybe up to 6-8 people while going through his side of the story. Afterwards you can choose another character, like Cassie, and then you play her side of the Story Mode while fighting 6-8 people. And if Subbie fights Cassie along his storyline, then Cassie will fight Subbie along her storyline as well.


Never thought of it that way That could work in my eyes! That way any character has there time to shine.

But again, there's a lot of time spent there for NRS if they gonna do it this way. Hard for Cassie as well, because she's probably entering story mode later on. She's just a kid when the story starts...


Well, if they wanted to, they could definately pull it off. NRS has proven to be quite the storytellers, though not all agree with the outcome. :P
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unleash_your_tounge
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About Me

"Life, for all it's anguish, is ours Miss Ives. It belongs to no other." - Ferdinand Lyle

07/27/2014 01:25 AM (UTC)
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Trying to keep up with the 16 chapters mayhem was too much. Haphazard.

I kind of hope they start the story at the 25 years later mark then work backwards to the results of MK9. Concentrating on the key players that propelled the story into that situation. All the while slowly revealing why character A is here instead of character B, or having this interaction with character C instead of character D.

EDIT: In other words, don't spoon feed me the story. Make it a challenge and keep me guessing!
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jdnice11
07/27/2014 10:56 PM (UTC)
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Definitely having the story told from a different perspective is a good thought. Changes things up slightly
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DVorah
07/28/2014 07:49 AM (UTC)
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I don't want CHAPTERS, just fights that happen during the storyline, i'm not above seeing much more happening and playing less.
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whatuknowaboutMK?
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Winter is Coming A Lanister always pays his debts You know nothing Jon Snow! We do not sow! Valar Morghulis

07/28/2014 03:09 PM (UTC)
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I actually love this idea. It would almost be like solving a mystery which would make the story all the more better. If they could pull it off that is.

On the other hand, it would be cool to see the story from ALL perspectives.
I do wonder if you can switch between variations as you go through the story though. Or maybe they'll have us play certain variations against certain characters so that we can learn them idk.
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Odemuitascastas
07/28/2014 05:04 PM (UTC)
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First the game is now going for 25 years so it's unlikely that anyone is the villain the whole time. Second they can fight multiple genérios characters (could make the fight Baraka and Shaolin Monks MK3) or against different characters with the movements of others (we could see Sektor battle against his father and the father of Sektor have the same moves thereof).

At the most there are many reasons to not kill a villain. Handling (try an agreement after defeat it and I can easily imagine Shang Tsung and Quan Chi doing it), Capture to take hostages, or the hero achieve escape or be rescued by someone or something to distract the villain, or even consider irrelevant hero after defeating also cooptation (Sektor imagine doing that to enlarge your Lin Kuei).
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