Realistic assesment of returning players inclusion
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posted03/03/2015 11:29 AM (UTC)by
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barakall
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01/13/2015 11:18 PM (UTC)
With all the threads going around full of predictions, leaks and confirmations I just wanted start a realistic assessment of possible return characters being included.

NRS has clearly stated they would include characters based on relevance to the story. You can then bet your ass if a character does not fit that bill, no matter how popular, he or she will not be in. There's also other obvious signs a character may not be included.

Knowing this, I will start with an assessment of characters I would like to see in. Hopefully we can realistically discuss on a returning player's chances to be included and keep emotions out of this thread!

I will try to keep it short and hope you will do the same, starting with my favourite character:

* Baraka - spotted in MK9 gear, has always been a lackey and obviously not much to him story wise. Conclusion: very little chance.

* Noob-Saibot - very dependant on who Sub-Zero is, with many ninja's already in, his name and little relevance in MK9 story. Conclusion: very little chance.

* Nightwolf - he died in canon MK9 though death does not really matter, was hinted at in a tweet "It might wolf" but that was in reference to the bow which of course is now Kung Jin. Conclusion: very little chance.

* Havik - mention of chaosrealm, made fun of along with Sheeva during stream and fighting styles were very uninspiring in previous games, little relevance to the story so far. Conclusion: very little chance.

* Kabal - no mention, little relevance so far, could have it with the Black Dragon faction. Conclusion: very little chance.

* Bo Rai Cho - no mention so far (unless I missed a small reference in the comics), has trained certain characters, does not suit dark style, NRS still likes humour and has a lot of tongue in cheek type stuff. Conclusion: a small chance.

* Shang Tsung - no mention despite being very important to past games, in almost every game before, could have relevance to story with Mileena taking his soul in MK9 (not canon). Conclusion: a small chance.

* Liu Kang - big relevance to past MK games and story, no longer fits the main protagonist bill, died in MK9 canon, potential revival (as a god), hinted at in story trailer, mentioned in several articles as possible, could have relevance to the story and perceived to be spotted in living tower. Conclusion: a good chance.

Bring up new characters or discuss my assessment, go!
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ErmaSco
03/01/2015 03:55 PM (UTC)
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Shang Tsung : a prominent character in the series. Presented in MKDC (one of the most iconic) Rumored to be in, slightly had his chance reduced by Shaun H..in Twitter, Not mentioned or shown in comics (could be kept as a surprise) Chances : Decent.
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jimmykricket
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03/01/2015 03:56 PM (UTC)
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This is realistic and sensible.

I would add Sindel to your list of "little chance". I think she's just be an undead NPC. At least she's not all the way dead, like Jade.
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KenshiMaster16
03/01/2015 04:05 PM (UTC)
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* Kenshi - Alive thanks to the comics and the leaked casting call. Has to be doing something Special Forces related and is also responsible for helping Scorpion gain full control of his powers which they noticably glossed over in the comics which may mean we see it in the game in a flashback. Conclusion: A good chance.

* Fujin - No reason what-so-ever he should not be involved. He's acting as Raiden's aid pretty much in the comics from what we've seen, he obviously has issues with Raiden's use of the Kamidogu and more than likely, he was involved with defeating Shinnok's forces in the re-telling of MK4. Conclusion: A decent chance.

* Reiko - Again, no reason what-so-ever that he should not be involved, unless of course, he dies in the comics. Mileena has next to zero lackies in the game thus far that we know of compared to Kotal Kahn that are playable/fightable in Story Mode and more than likely, she'll need somebody. Conclusion: Very likely unless deceased.
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MoodyShooter
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03/01/2015 04:15 PM (UTC)
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Li Mei: Assuming the woman in the trailer is Li Mei, naturally. She is shown in close up and has actual storyline related dialogue. It's implied that her information is what tips Raiden and the Scooby Doo gang that the Civil War in Outworld is getting out of hand and that the prize is the amulet.

Playable Reasons - she has literally the same amount of screen time and dialogue as heavy hitters such as Sub Zero; she actually gets more dialogue than the new characters that were obviously revealed. It wasn't a "blink-and-you'll-miss-it" cameo but full on highlighting. She appears to be a catalyst for the Scooby Doo gangs' adventure. Having her exist as only a random NPC cameo with no build up to just randomly show up and say, "Oh hai guys the war is getting totes cray-cray up in Outworld lolol" makes no sense; she would only be noticed by series fans. I find the following situation to be more likely based upon the story structure of MKvsDC, MK9, and Injustice:

The amulet Mileena covets, for whatever reason, has found its way into Li Mei's village. Mileena's forces march onto the village. Kotal's forces take notice and also move on the village to confront Mileena and co. Battle breaks out in the village. Li Mei then does what she did prior to MKDA (defend the village, nearly defeated Kano before he got help) and defends the escaping villagers and refugees. This consists of a couple fights with punching bag characters on both sides before she is forced to leave. Li Mei and other refugees to seek shelter in Earthrealm where she proceeds to spill the beans to Raiden and co. in hopes they can intervene and stop the conflict before more people are hurt.

This scenario would be similar to the bit-part chapters that characters such as Jade had in MK9. That's my guess anyway.
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KenshiMaster16
03/01/2015 04:20 PM (UTC)
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The_Truth Wrote:
Li Mei:


I could totally see that shit happening and whats best is it makes sense with what we've seen thus far. I really, REALLY hope shes in.
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KungLaodoesntsuck
03/01/2015 04:43 PM (UTC)
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I do think Li Mei is nothing more than NPC. I mean sure she got screentime, in that ONE scene. We never see her anywhere else. Erron Black can be seen 3 times throughout the trailer and even Rain can be seen twice. And yes, blink and you won't see them but they were shown more than once. (Rain was technically in the same spot but he's doing a lot more than Li Mei was doing.)

I'm thinking Li Mei is just a witness from Outworld who made it to the Refugee Camp and is just telling what she saw.
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redman
03/01/2015 04:51 PM (UTC)
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KenshiMaster16 Wrote:


* Fujin - No reason what-so-ever he should not be involved. He's acting as Raiden's aid pretty much in the comics from what we've seen, he obviously has issues with Raiden's use of the Kamidogu and more than likely, he was involved with defeating Shinnok's forces in the re-telling of MK4. Conclusion: A decent chance.

*


Exactly. If he ends up being DLC I want a damn good explanation to why the fuck he wasn't on the initial roster besides "We didn't know how to fit him in". They definitely won't admit that it was just for the sales.

Worst case scenario is he ends up being a NPC and killed off in story or some shit. God, i'm starting to sound like Prof Ankha.

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KenshiMaster16
03/01/2015 04:53 PM (UTC)
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KungLaodoesntsuck Wrote:
I do think Li Mei is nothing more than NPC. I mean sure she got screentime, in that ONE scene.


To be honest though, this trailer really only acts as an introduction to the Special Forces gang. We see absolutely NOTHING of Sub-Zero outside of that one meeting, we see NOTHING of Scorpion outside of a flashback sequence, we see no scene bringing attention and focus to Johnny Cage, Sonya Blade, Jax or Kenshi. We see NOTHING of Kung Lao as a living person. We don't see any interactions with Kotal's gang outside of Erron Black who we only see walking them into town. We also don't even see a scene that actually features Ferra/Torr for that matter besides fight footage which may not even be from Story Mode since it features a fatality.

Do I think Li Mei is playable? Probably not. But just from that trailer alone, we can't make any calls because we simply 1) Don't know enough about the story and 2) Haven't seen enough footage to make that call because at this point, you could make the same case about Scorpion being a glorified cameo if we didn't already know he was playable and we know damn well that ain't gonna happen.
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MrInternational
03/01/2015 05:04 PM (UTC)
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Rain: A demigod son to Argus but has very little influence at the events before the Netherrealm War. Has the ability to control the weather and block out the sun; Kotal Kahns source of his true power which essentially makes Rain a deadly advisory for the Osh-Tek Emperor. Is also speculated to be a close ally to Mileena who is technically the true heir to the Throne giving him some importance to the story. Is also been hinted at by Ed Boon numerous amount of times in the past.
Chances: 5/10
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jimmykricket
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03/01/2015 05:06 PM (UTC)
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It will be so funny if that's not even Li Mei there in the beginning of the trailer.
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MoodyShooter
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03/01/2015 05:17 PM (UTC)
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jimmykricket Wrote:
It will be so funny if that's not even Li Mei there in the beginning of the trailer.


Oh man I'd be so depressed haha. It's totally possible though. Myself and most others are assuming that it's Li Mei based off of guess work, assumptions, and circumstantial evidence. I personally think my reasons and scenario are definitely possible and plausible but it's not beyond the realm of possibility I'm completely wrong.
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KungLaodoesntsuck
03/01/2015 05:21 PM (UTC)
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KenshiMaster16 Wrote:
Do I think Li Mei is playable? Probably not. But just from that trailer alone, we can't make any calls because we simply 1) Don't know enough about the story and 2) Haven't seen enough footage to make that call because at this point, you could make the same case about Scorpion being a glorified cameo if we didn't already know he was playable and we know damn well that ain't gonna happen.


Agreed. There's nothing concrete in the trailer. But since that's all we have, that's all I have to go by right now.
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Mileena Stan
03/01/2015 05:32 PM (UTC)
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KungLaodoesntsuck Wrote:
I do think Li Mei is nothing more than NPC.


This. I also don't feel as if she deserves, for lack of a better word, a place in the roster over some of the more iconic characters who can hold their own miles better than Li Mei ever could - Jade and Sindel, for example. When the only relatively interesting thing about you is the fact you slept with a dragon for power, that's saying something.

Just give her a scene slightly longer than her brief appearance in MK:A and have her recount the attack on her village, explaining how Mileena got Shinnok's amulet in the process. That's more than enough screen time for her.
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unleash_your_tounge
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03/01/2015 05:50 PM (UTC)
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Call me krazy, but I think Bo' Rai Cho's chances are better than most think.

*Headmaster/Sensei of the Wu Shi Academy.

*PRIOR to the introduction of the descendants in story, we still really only have Sonya, Johnny, Raiden, and possibly Fujin as defenders of Earthrealm during the Netherrealm War Saga. I could easily see Raiden getting in touch with Bo for some extra back-up. Although I'm not too sure how he'll be feeling about Raiden considering he burnt his best disciple to a crisp.

*The casting call for the web series lists Bo first. I know it states "Additional Roles", but still. He's up there, lol. Even above Scorpion.

*Also mentions how he teaches with every opportunity, and considering so many newcomers we'll follow from day one, he'll have his hand in training at LEAST one of them. Casting calls names Kung Jin. That's pretty significant considering Jin is a total newcomer. Giving Jin a connection to someone like Bo wouldn't be in vain. Just like it wasn't for Kang or Lao.

*As a native of Outworld as well, and I said it in another thread, I could totally see him lending support for Kotal Kahn during the Civil War.

*Li Mei is in the trailer and Bo also has a great deal of story connections with her.

We'll definitely see Bo' Rai Cho as a cameo. No questions asked there, but with all this mounting evidence of a decent role in the story, it's looking more and more like his inclusion as playable is a definite possibility.

C'mon Master Bo' Rai Cho!
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MoodyShooter
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03/01/2015 06:10 PM (UTC)
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Mileenaownz12345 Wrote:
KungLaodoesntsuck Wrote:
I do think Li Mei is nothing more than NPC.


This. I also don't feel as if she deserves, for lack of a better word, a place in the roster over some of the more iconic characters who can hold their own miles better than Li Mei ever could - Jade and Sindel, for example. When the only relatively interesting thing about you is the fact you slept with a dragon for power, that's saying something.

Just give her a scene slightly longer than her brief appearance in MK:A and have her recount the attack on her village, explaining how Mileena got Shinnok's amulet in the process. That's more than enough screen time for her.


Here's the problem with that. This battle was a big deal from her words. It was a big deal, presumably, due to the amount of damage it caused and because it was fought over one of the most powerful trinkets in MK lore. This would not be something that is quickly glossed over in some anti-climatic exposition in an interrogation room. This (to me) is a battle that must be shown or depicted in some regard. It's not enough though to just show it though is it? Nobody that's playing this game is going to want to watch characters fighting; they're going to want to be fighting.

Also keep in mind Li Mei's character. In MKDA she knew how to fight extremely well; in the Konquest mode it's said she defended her village from the DA's forces and actually nearly defeated Kano until their bout was interrupted. This is before she trained with Shujinko. Before she trained with Bo Rai Cho.

In terms of storyline now think about this. Is Li Mei really going to just let her village and her people get stomped? No way. That completely goes against her established character traits. She wouldn't be some observer in the background; she'd be in the thick of it trying to protect her people from both sides. This fact alone makes Li Mei a candidate to be a playable character (perhaps in flashback as MKX's story is said to be told in) to experience this battle and more importantly set up the next chapter in the story. She's present for both. She's the story link.

BTW apologies OP if we are derailing this thread. If we are I'll drop it.

EDIT: alright, I'm dropping it as per OP's request.
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barakall
03/01/2015 06:17 PM (UTC)
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In general, you guys are way too emotional and presumptuous regarding Li Mei in particular, but also the Fujin part and Bo Rai Cho. I understand elaborating but try to stick to what we know and keep it short(er).
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[Killswitch]
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03/01/2015 06:36 PM (UTC)
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barakall Wrote:
* Baraka - spotted in MK9 gear, has always been a lackey and obviously not much to him story wise. Conclusion: very little chance.


Looked more like he was in his Deception outfit to me.
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umbrascitor
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03/01/2015 07:02 PM (UTC)
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Probably not:

• Shang Tsung. His soul was transferred to Sindel, who as far as we can tell is still under Quan Chi's control at a fairly late stage of the game. MK9 implied that he might come back as a "new champion," but clearly the Cassie Squad is in charge of being the main heroes and Scorpion seems to be the bad guy gone good. Looks grim.


Somewhat possible:

• Bo' Rai Cho. As Outworld's greatest martial arts master, surely he has a stake in its future. Webseries gives him a significant role to play in training Kung Jin. However, this could just be a snippet of backstory that might not carry over into a game appearance. It seems like NRS doesn't want to forget about him, but the love/hate among the fans might still be skewed too far toward hate, and if he played any kind of commanding role here like he did in MKDA/D then it seems like we would have heard about it by now.

• Liu Kang. Liu seems far too irrelevant to be playing much of a part here. He hasn't trained any of the kids, there's no room for him to be the Big Hero (which has really been his only defining character trait up until MKDA), and Johnny Cage is Raiden's new prodigy. So far, there is no indication that he went Fire God because Raiden has kept his job and there doesn't seem to be room for such an important subplot in the story. He only really has two minor positive counts: he's supposed to at least make some kind of appearance in the comics somewhere, and he has icon status -- who better to send off the new generation of MK than its original champion?

• Li Mei. Her appearance in the trailer -- if that is indeed her, which is likely but not a guarantee -- has a strong "plot-driving cameo" vibe to it. And Ed tweeted that we might see her in "some capacity," which is a transparently dodgy way of saying "not full capacity." She probably needs an extra gimmick besides Impossible Flexibility to fill out her Variations; in this regard, she's on about the same level as Baraka in gameplay disadvantage. Some people's idea that she could play out a chapter leading up to the trailer scene makes enough sense to keep her off the bottom category here.

• Tanya. Edenia seems to be a non-factor here, even for the Netherrealm War, so it's hard to see how she would get involved... and there are plenty of other characters filling the "traitor" roles. Her fan following is pretty much her only asset... unfortunately for them.

• Kai. MK4 cred, and Boon seemed interested in reinventing his handstand style for Armageddon; maybe this could be his second chance. It's a slim maybe though.


Maybe?

• Jax. He's an old icon and they might want to up the family interactions. However, he has so far played no role in the comic story -- not even to save his own daughter from the Black Dragons alongside Johnny and Sonya. Plus, Jacqui's gauntlets encroach a little too closely on his robo-arms gimmick -- funny thing is, she is bound to make much more use of her gauntlets' technology than Jax ever did with his arms. No one ever guaranteed that EVERY family member would be in, so I'm guessing that he is as likely to be running the show at HQ or something now, as being in active kombat.

• Baraka. We see him there (probably) doing something sort of important to the story (presumably). He has a reason to be there, being the Tarkatan leader and all. But there doesn't seem to be a lot he can do with Variations; his blades make him kind of a one-trick pony because everything has to be an in-your-face slash party. And they seem to be building up Rain (see below) and Reiko (see farther below) to have a lot more importance.

• Havik. Chaosrealm can invade the Faction Wars, which would be a little dull without at least one representative in the game. MK9 implied some potential involvement in the Netherrealm War, and civil war in Outworld seems like the kind of thing he'd want to be a part of. He's also pretty much the only new Deception character who ever found broad audience appeal. We haven't seen any sign of him yet, though, and it's hard to tell if there's any room for him in the story. He is in the Himmerick pool, though.

• Fujin. He's in the comic, but doesn't seem very important. Many of his gameplay options have been claimed by other characters (let it be noted here that Kung Lao and Kitana had windy powers before Fujin came around, so they didn't "steal" them). He could easily play a role in the Netherrealm War, though, and he is both widely requested and represented in the Himmerick pool.

• Kenshi. In the webseries he's supposed to fight alongside Takeda in the Special Forces, but he's notably absent from the trailer. An auxiliary role? In the comics, he's totally MIA. There's a decent chance he would be in, but there's way too much mystery surrounding him right now to say for sure... which suits his mystique just fine.

• Sektor or Cyrax, but probably not both. It would be odd not to see them get some representation (especially since the Lin Kuei is short on heads at the moment), but there doesn't seem to be room in the game for two. Cyrax would make a good rescue case like back in the day; Sektor would make a good rival for the Grandmaster title. But the whole thing is up in the air right now.


Fairly likely:

• Rain. They've been shaping Rain into a compelling character since Armageddon. He's one of the very few players on Mileena's side, and certainly a powerful one. He clearly survived getting solar-flared by a Kamidogu-'roided Kotal, and I'm guessing that he javelin-kicks Kotal off a building after a long-standing vendetta over that. With his sizable and vocal fan following, he'd be the ultimate fanservice character aside from Tremor. Even still... as much of an effort as they've put into making Rain cool, they've never put out much enthusiasm for committing to him. That's the only thing stopping him from making the top category here.


Looks good!

• Reiko. Damn, Reiko looks good.

• Erron Black. All but confirmed.

• Shinnok. He hasn't been "guaranteed" yet, but his odds are way up. If he's trapped in the Amulet then there's a good chance in Hell that he's not staying there for long, with Mileena toying with powers beyond her control.

• Johnny Cage. Cassie doesn't seem to use much of his powers -- definitely not the projectiles -- and who knows what new tricks he's picked up over the years, Seidan training or no. And, of course, he's Raiden's right hand man in the Netherrealm War.

• Sonya. Cassie seems to borrow a little more of Sonya's flair with her acrobatics and really exemplifies the Special Forces connection with the missile strike attacks. But Sonya has not been one to stand back and do nothing, and her Faction pic is pretty telling. She's almost certainly in.


Guranteed:

• Mokap. Pulling the strings on literally every move that every character makes.
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m0s3pH
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03/01/2015 07:30 PM (UTC)
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In:
Erron Black (not sure why anyone still questions whether he's in or not, you don't go to all this trouble designing a new character with a cool look only to leave him out)

Good chance:
Sonya
Johnny Cage
Liu Kang
Reiko

50-50:
Rain
Shinnok
Kenshi

Unlikely:
Jax
Baraka
Havik
Cyrax
Sektor
Sindel
Noob

Snowball's chance:
Fujin
Tanya
BRC
Kai
Shang Tsung
Li Mei

No:
Jarek
Sheeva
Stryker
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mkfan_9999
03/01/2015 07:32 PM (UTC)
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Shinnok is unlikely now since its 100% confirmed by everyone here that johnny and sonya help raiden banish him.
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NickScryer
03/01/2015 07:42 PM (UTC)
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Just a thought in regards to Shang Tsung. I totally 100% believed he had zero chance for this game, he's awesome but the way he went out in MK9 felt like a real "Tsung is gone for at least a game or two" moment. But I had completely forgotten that he will be in the web series.

The web series is a obviously a tie in since it has given us leaked details that match and compliment the game itself, plus Cassie, D'Vorah, Ferra/Torr and other newcomers are going to be in it.

We don't know yet if it's canon, semi-canon or non-canon. But Shang Tsung will be in it, so if it is any way canon then his chances of being in the game surely get a slight boost.
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OhYesMar$h
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"You will serve me in the Netherrealm!" - Quan Chi.

03/01/2015 10:48 PM (UTC)
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If you havent seen your favorite characters in the new trailer by now, or anywhere else for that matter, chances are slim to none for characters like Fujin, Tanya, Kabal, etc. That's as realistic as it gets.
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daryui
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03/01/2015 10:57 PM (UTC)
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Bo'Rai Cho doesn't fit? Ed seems to disagree.

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KenshiMaster16
03/01/2015 11:02 PM (UTC)
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I could see it now, Bo's farts would act the same as Cassie's salute. The two ultimate troll moves. tongue
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