Multi tiered arenas – Kombat evolved
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posted07/20/2007 11:14 AM (UTC)by
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tgrant
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Multi tier design is an aspect that has been utilised to only a small extent in Mortal Kombat. There have been arenas that could have been expanded into excellent multi tier playing fields and those which have had nothing but an adjacent room or two that you get knocked into. In the case of the latter, this is boring, repetitive and restrictive play. In the case of both, you have potential to expand the fighting arena and experience into something much more enjoyable. To do this, Kombat must evolve!

An introduction to a tier arena


Imagine an arena where you can move freely back and forth between different rooms. Or perhaps there’s an n arena where you can go up to a new level, only to come back down at a later time if you wish. Perhaps the arena might have a staircase or a slope and perhaps you could perform special acrobatic techniques in order to evade, defend, access new places or even assist in your attack. What if the arena had all of these things? Such is how a tier level should be and here I explore some of the things that could be done to remove the linear experience we have had in the MK series.

Adjoining chambers


Some arenas in MK have allowed you to be knocked through barriers or gaps into an adjoining room or even above or below to hidden areas. These rooms were only accessible via power hits in specific parts of the arena but this is not how it must always be.

Accessing adjoining chambers

Free movement:

Players need to be able to manually move between multiple rooms on their own. If you’re back dashing to flee from your opponent, you shouldn’t be trapped against a wall or even worse a gaping doorway. You should be able to continue on through.

Arena damage:

Special moves such as energy projectiles, slams and ground pounds should all do surface damage. Such damage would pile up and eventually break a hole through the ceiling, floor or walls allowing access to other areas without the need for power hits. Thus, you could then walk through or jump to a new area.

Stairs and slopes


Why are arenas always flat? Why can we not fight on staircases or a hill slope? I think it’s about time we could do these things as some levels are designed with both these things in the background or as knockdown points. But again, why always down? Why can we not walk or run up them? Or even fight our way up or down them?

The property change – When lows become mids and so on....

When fighting on a slope, the advantage usually goes to the person on the higher ground. What would be interesting to see is how fighting in such a scenario would work in a fighting game. The major difference would be that of move properties. These would change dependent on who was on the high ground and who was the low ground and also dependent on the property of the attack being used.

High ground properties

If on the high ground, attacks would hit as follows:

High – Ineffective
Mid – Become high hits (Vertical strikes being the exception)
Low – Become mid

Low ground properties

High – Become mid hits
Mid – Become low hits (Vertical strikes being the exception)
Low – Ineffective

In accordance to these changes, pop up moves, pokes etc would all be in new places and strategy would have to change accordingly. Combos would also dramatically change and players would find themselves having to adapt to extreme changes. Even blocking and ducking would change. A new set of commands would be put in place for fighting on a slope and would add that little bit of extra depth

Multi tiered arenas


Imagine fighting on a construction site. You start on the ground but decide to buy yourself a few seconds by jumping to one of the beams above and swing up onto a new platform. Your opponent follows and knocks you onto a rising beam held aloft by a crane. Your opponent jumps on after you but you intercept his jump with a kick that knocks him back to a swinging platform below where the fight continues in mid air. You eventually gain the upper hand and decide to retreat and the only way to go is to swing across to a platform opposite, only you find it’s not safe and fall through it and hit the ground. Your opponent is Sub-Zero. Then suddenly, in true IceMan style, he slides to the ground on a trail of ice... You are Scorpion and you suddenly use your Spear to pull yourself upwards into a swing jump in order to knock Sub-Zero off his ice track...

Features


Knockdowns

These would be more damaging dependant on the height you fall from. For the higher locations, you could possibly have a chance to recover from the fall by mashing a few buttons or inputting a command to trigger a recovery move.

Slopes and staircase.

These would allow you to go back and forth between different levels and the changes mentioned earlier would apply if kombat took place on them.

Elevators

Some stages might have an elevator that you could fight on top of or use to go up or down in the arena or even crush your opponent underneath it to finish them.

Swinging and fixed platforms

Some platforms in the arena would be suspended in mid air allowing for a fight above ground level. Some may be fixed in place and you can move between them at will. Others may move as you fight on them, possibly swinging into walls causing you to fall or the platform itself to crash to the ground. Again you can move freely between them.

Risk / reward

If your only plan is to run, you may want to look before you leap. Hazards such as collapsing platforms (whch can lead to instant deaths such as impalement, acid, lava pits etc), spiked staircases, mined surfaces etc can add to the fun and danger of the arenas. You’ll have to be careful where you go and how you choose to access a different level or room.

Special abilities


Since you will be moving around arenas at will, you’ll probably want some useful abilities to aid you in all you do.

Ascension and Descension – Jumps, wall runs and special moves

Jumping can be used to reach ledges or beams and the character can move upwards that way. Or, to reach a platform near a wall, you could run at the wall and do a flip off it to land on the place you wish to be. Some characters can even use their powers to move around.

Character specific moves

Sub-Zero can use a jet of ice to propel himself upwards for a boost to a platform. Raiden for example could use a bolt of lightning to lift him upwards or teleport. Scorpion has his Spear to help him up. Sindel and Fujin have flight. Sektor could use the mechanical arms he used in past games for his throw to lift himself upwards or Sub-Zero could use a blast of ice to propel himself upward. Sonya could utilise a special ability where she stuns you with the Kiss of Death and uses the opponents’ body to boost her upwards by doing a running jump off their shoulders perhaps. Or she and Kitana could simply use the Square Wave Punch special move.

To descend, you can jump down, use a stairway or slope or an elevator or just move from platform to platform. Again, powers can come into play with flight and teleportation being obvious examples. Sub-Zero can use an ice trail to slide downwards. Noob could jump into one of his Shadow Holes and teleport safely downwards. Rain could jump down and then use a jet of water to push him upwards to counteract gravity and then land on his feet.

Other abilities

Characters will also be able to hang from the edges of platforms to prevent falls. Some characters may be able to swing between platforms. Jax and Stryker could use their tonfas to swing from a beam above and Scorpion, as ever, has his Spear.

With these kind of abilities, designs and changes, the fighting arena could prove to be more fun if utilised correctly. Let me know what you think.

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kingjolly
04/22/2007 09:03 PM (UTC)
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It sounds like a concept more suited for fighting games like power stone. The idea is just sounds way too completed for a one on one fighitng game. Going through rooms? Nah, just keep it simple.
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Barakaz_cuz
04/22/2007 09:14 PM (UTC)
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Wow...I'm Just Speechless! Amazing Ideas T! Wow...Just...Wow!
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RomanK
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04/22/2007 09:31 PM (UTC)
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This is an awesome concept.If Ed and his team change the view to third person it would work better.
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kingjolly
04/22/2007 09:43 PM (UTC)
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^that better be a joke.
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RomanK
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04/22/2007 10:03 PM (UTC)
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kingjolly Wrote:
^that better be a joke.
Whats so bad about it?
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kingjolly
04/22/2007 10:05 PM (UTC)
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3rd person fighting game? You ask youself that question.
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RomanK
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04/22/2007 10:10 PM (UTC)
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kingjolly Wrote:
3rd person fighting game? You ask youself that question.
Never mind then.I don't know what I was thinking.confused
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prodigy004
04/22/2007 11:36 PM (UTC)
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These are all very good ideas but the question is are they possible? Can the MK team take all that and put into action? I dont know thats why im asking.
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matthewhaddad
04/23/2007 11:18 AM (UTC)
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These are some awesome ideas, I would love to see these implemented. They would add a lot of depth to game, and it would only be good for the game. I think if this idea is implemented though, there should also be arenas that are flat and bounded by unbreakable walls, just like some of the arenas in the current MKs. But yeah.. a good mix of your ideas and the currents kind of arenas would be sweet. Nice ideas Ty! smile
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redman
04/25/2007 02:54 AM (UTC)
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Wow this is amazing! Thats so cool! I cant wait.
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ThePredator151
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04/25/2007 06:19 AM (UTC)
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Ah yes, this is indeed a great plethra of ideas.

I like how you mentioned slopes, stairs and just overall exposing that all fights don't occur on only "flat surfaces". At first it made me think of my old idea where, characters should be able to fight up into the crowds of like the shaolin courtyard area, but then expanded to notice fights from the likes of Jackie Chan or Jet Li.

These guys move all over their enviornments. Chan uses his enviornment like no other. It'd be crazy playing Mortal Kombat, with grapics like GoW, in an envoirnment as free and unpredictable as Jet Li or Jackie Chan movie. That alone is a great concept to imagine.

---

On the other hand, this almost seems like toO much. Not overwhelming, but I mean like, if the arenas seemingly hav no limit or boundery to it as far as going from room to room, up/down and so on, a fight could go on forever. Imagine your opponent being painfully efficient in evasive manuvers. I'd hate to imagine a glitch in all this....you'd never get to......"fight". What's the logical remedy then? Time clock?



'nother way of looking at it I guess.
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nastynate
04/25/2007 04:58 PM (UTC)
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I had an idea for an arena in which you are standing in the middle of the room and the walls are spinning. There are 2 big plates of glass on both sides of the room. Every 5 seconds or so you can see that when the room is spinning another room is reveled behind the glass. There would be 4 rooms behind the walls and you would have to knock your opponent through the glass as it passes over the room to gain access to that room. Each room would be different. One might contain weapons, one might contain death traps, one might a death trap itself.
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Grizzle
04/30/2007 04:52 PM (UTC)
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That is pretty cool and I like how you implemented the character's specifics into the arena. After reading this I had an idea about Scorpion with a spear that goes in 3 different directions. Horizontal, Vertical, and Diagonal, so he can swing to different platforms and maybe even do some attacks ala Spider Man style. Your idea would make Mortal Kombat alot more fast paced and just plain awsome.

I love that construction site idea and I'd like to expand on it. It would be great having other people in the backround like actual workers standing on the steel beams. As your characters walk past them they loose their balance on the beams and fall with a goofy scream and fall to a bloody death. For Xbox live that can be an idea for achievement points by knocking all of them off.

Also imagine the stage fatalities. Like how you said with the multiple areas. Letssay you make it all the way to the top of the construction site, you would be fighting on the top of the crane of a wrecking ball that can move from one area to the contruction site to another. I thought of a stage fatality where a character falls into a bed of cement and your character watches as more cement pours down on top of the character and buries him alive.

I could imagine how huge each arena can be based on your idea and I am all for it, that was a great idea man.
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NinjaFromHell
05/01/2007 07:57 PM (UTC)
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You always amaze me with your brilliant ideas, tgrant. However; I am not confident that these features would be practical to implement in a one-on-one fighting game, perhaps they would be better suited to an Action/Adventure game like Shaolin Monks.

Either way, keep the ideas coming. smile
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LiuKangFighter
05/16/2007 10:01 PM (UTC)
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I like this idea, fighting on staircases and stuff. But as the second post said, this works better in games like pwoer stone. Althogh I would like to see something in MK where you could throw stuff like chairs around ala power stone.
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tgrant
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Currently working on: MKD & MKA - The One Ring Theory
05/22/2007 11:37 AM (UTC)
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kingjolly Wrote:
It sounds like a concept more suited for fighting games like power stone. The idea is just sounds way too completed for a one on one fighitng game. Going through rooms? Nah, just keep it simple.

With the proper programming, I think it could work pretty well. I can see where the issues would lie. It'd be nice to at least see it attempted and tried out as it would provide a more open experience for the player and give a bigger sense of freedom and control.
Barakaz_cuz Wrote:
Wow...I'm Just Speechless! Amazing Ideas T! Wow...Just...Wow!

Thanks, man!
RomanK Wrote:
This is an awesome concept.If Ed and his team change the view to third person it would work better.

Thanks, though the idea wouldn't work so well in third person. A fighting game in third person would be pretty bizarre lol.
prodigy004 Wrote:
These are all very good ideas but the question is are they possible? Can the MK team take all that and put into action? I dont know thats why im asking.

Thanks. With the MK Team, it's more a question of how much time will Midway give them to allow them to sort things and also will they spend time on the areas that actually need attention rather than spending it on unnecessary things like Kreate a Fighter. I'm just pitching the idea anyway lol. No one says they have to use it.
matthewhaddad Wrote:
These are some awesome ideas, I would love to see these implemented. They would add a lot of depth to game, and it would only be good for the game. I think if this idea is implemented though, there should also be arenas that are flat and bounded by unbreakable walls, just like some of the arenas in the current MKs. But yeah.. a good mix of your ideas and the currents kind of arenas would be sweet. Nice ideas Ty! smile

Thanks, man! You've pretty much caught on with the idea. not every arena has to be tiered as such and obviously some would remain as current arenas are now. It's just that some could have far more done with them.
redman Wrote:
Wow this is amazing! Thats so cool! I cant wait.

Lol, thanks man! What can't you wait for exactly?
ThePredator151 Wrote:
At first it made me think of my old idea where, characters should be able to fight up into the crowds of like the shaolin courtyard area, but then expanded to notice fights from the likes of Jackie Chan or Jet Li.
These guys move all over their enviornments. Chan uses his enviornment like no other. It'd be crazy playing Mortal Kombat, with grapics like GoW, in an envoirnment as free and unpredictable as Jet Li or Jackie Chan movie. That alone is a great concept to imagine.
On the other hand, this almost seems like toO much. Not overwhelming, but I mean like, if the arenas seemingly hav no limit or boundery to it as far as going from room to room, up/down and so on, a fight could go on forever. Imagine your opponent being painfully efficient in evasive manuvers. I'd hate to imagine a glitch in all this....you'd never get to......"fight". What's the logical remedy then? Time clock?
'nother way of looking at it I guess.

The thing with such an arena is that they can also be used for offense. Also, not every available room will have an exit or an exit can be blocked and not breakable. Remember, traps and the like can be used to stop you being too free roaming or a dead end can be added thus trapping you. Also, counter moves could be added where characetrs can anticipate an evasive move perhaps and do something to counteract. Scorpion pulling someone attempting to climb upwards back down with his Spear is just a minor example.
Grizzle Wrote:

I love that construction site idea and I'd like to expand on it. It would be great having other people in the backround like actual workers standing on the steel beams. As your characters walk past them they loose their balance on the beams and fall with a goofy scream and fall to a bloody death. For Xbox live that can be an idea for achievement points by knocking all of them off.
Also imagine the stage fatalities. Like how you said with the multiple areas. Letssay you make it all the way to the top of the construction site, you would be fighting on the top of the crane of a wrecking ball that can move from one area to the contruction site to another. I thought of a stage fatality where a character falls into a bed of cement and your character watches as more cement pours down on top of the character and buries him alive.

I'm loving these ideas, man. That stage Fatality especially would be pretty cool. Thanks for the praise and the input.
NinjaFromHell Wrote:
You always amaze me with your brilliant ideas, tgrant. However; I am not confident that these features would be practical to implement in a one-on-one fighting game, perhaps they would be better suited to an Action/Adventure game like Shaolin Monks.
Either way, keep the ideas coming. smile

Thanks, man. Again, I guess it's just a matter of trial and error and seeing how it would go. Super Smash Bros Melee does this sort of thing already to an extent and it is fun.
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Keith
06/12/2007 10:54 PM (UTC)
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tgrant Wrote:
Sonya could utilise a special ability where she stuns you with the Kiss of Death and uses the opponents’ body to boost her upwards by doing a running jump off their shoulders perhaps.


Don't tease me! An Awesome read. And some really awesome ideas.

I particularly like the idea of elevators, elevated land and swinging platforms, it would be really cool. Not enough attention is paid to arenas in MK.
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TheSilverSurfer
06/12/2007 11:25 PM (UTC)
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Characters may die off from fighting, before we even experience all the features from multi-tiered levels, but Im not disagreeing here. Who wouldn't want to see all this happen.
Hmm, a lot of what you're eplaining sounds like the Shaolin Monks type stages, T. I agree with you. I picked up shaolin Monks a couple weeks ago, and I must say, the level designs are beautiful, and impressive.



Ka-Tra
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-NIGHTWOLF-
06/27/2007 06:46 AM (UTC)
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Another awesome idea. I don't know how you come up with so many.
Yeah could be awesome if implemented correctly.
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tgrant
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07/10/2007 10:04 AM (UTC)
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Thanks alot guys. It's good to see some positive feedback. smile
Real good ideas, Tgrant!

More Use of Stage weapons is another thing I would propose.
Stage weapons should allow for higher combos,
along with multi tiered arenas they could be hidden in another tier,
so you have to change tier first to access the stage weapons.

Vile
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queve
07/13/2007 02:27 AM (UTC)
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Awesome, awesome ideas T!

Excellent job with this thread. I cant believe I missed it. Very cool!
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tgrant
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07/20/2007 11:14 AM (UTC)
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Thanks guys. I'm glad you liked the thread.smile
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