More characters... same styles?
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posted01/06/2006 06:30 PM (UTC)by
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Budmack
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01/03/2006 07:14 AM (UTC)
If MKA has the most characters in an MK game ever and if they still stick to the use of styles do you think we're gonna see some characters with the same styles as another? I guess it wouldn't be that bad as long as there are enough special moves for everyone
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jax123
01/03/2006 09:08 PM (UTC)
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They will probably have to cut down to 1 fight style and 1 weapon
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Sub-Zero_7th
01/03/2006 09:17 PM (UTC)
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jax123 Wrote:
They will probably have to cut down to 1 fight style and 1 weapon


That'd be a great idea actually, because it would save them time. If they still stick to the 3 style thing and have all those characters and if some of the characters have the same styles, they should work differently from each other.
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Mortalman
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01/03/2006 09:33 PM (UTC)
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I think that some characters in MK6, which have fighting styles previously introduced in MK5 are already slightly boring because of that. But they added some new ones, mixed up already existing and assinged them to other characters in order to avoid a situation where new fighter has same 2 styles as some character in MK5. And I guess it was OK for Deception, but having the same fighting system in MK7 will be just to much.

I hope they will create a new one, a lot better than that we could saw in the last 2 games. And of course I can deal with only one style per character (which is actually quite normal if you look at other fighting games) as long as it will be truly well done. I don't even care about the weapons and actual names of the styles at the bottom of the screen (which can be mentioned only in character's bio, since there would be only one per fighter). Make one style... just make it good. Not quantity, but quality.
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Weskerian
01/03/2006 10:16 PM (UTC)
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I remember using the phrase "quality over quantity" before in relation to one-on-one combat, but it works here too. Personally I would like to see characters with one fighting style and one weapon style. The weapon styles should be specific to the characters, rather than the usual way of wielding the weapons (example: Baraka's weapon style would involve him going nuts, so lots of heavily damaging combos to simulate a rampage, but which can be easily dodged and countered (because of his brute fury), while Sub-Zero's would be rather more calculated and effective, since he's trained as an assassin, so many single attacks designed to cause small damage to whittle down at the health, which are difficult to evade, block and counter (his weapon needs to change as well)).

As for the fighting styles, they should not be a single fighting style, they should be a mixture of various styles (kinda like in MKDA and MKD, since a lot of those styles don't utilise certain moves in real life (some don't even use kicks) but still made use of them in-game). Sonya's, for example, would be a mixture of various military styles, same with Jax, so some Judo, Jujitsu, and maybe some Krava Maga (Sonya's Special Forces, so I assume she would have studied some more obscure fighting styles, particularly if they make use of hitting the groin). Its not just about the styles either, it needs to be about the philosophy. I see Kano as a street fighter, not a trained martial artist, and the fact that he used Aikido was taking the piss, since its supposed to be about tranquility in some measure.

I think MK need to put more thought into the styles they give their characters, and start matching them to their characters. Everyone should have their own personal fighting style, and although it can be based on a certain discipline, it shouldn't be just that discipline and supposedly nothing else. No more of this "switch from one to another to a weapon style", just a button to draw your weapon and another to put it away. If they actually did something like this then I would be overjoyed. grin
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Sub-Zero_7th
01/03/2006 11:46 PM (UTC)
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Weskerian Wrote:
I remember using the phrase "quality over quantity" before in relation to one-on-one combat, but it works here too. Personally I would like to see characters with one fighting style and one weapon style. The weapon styles should be specific to the characters, rather than the usual way of wielding the weapons (example: Baraka's weapon style would involve him going nuts, so lots of heavily damaging combos to simulate a rampage, but which can be easily dodged and countered (because of his brute fury), while Sub-Zero's would be rather more calculated and effective, since he's trained as an assassin, so many single attacks designed to cause small damage to whittle down at the health, which are difficult to evade, block and counter (his weapon needs to change as well)).

As for the fighting styles, they should not be a single fighting style, they should be a mixture of various styles (kinda like in MKDA and MKD, since a lot of those styles don't utilise certain moves in real life (some don't even use kicks) but still made use of them in-game). Sonya's, for example, would be a mixture of various military styles, same with Jax, so some Judo, Jujitsu, and maybe some Krava Maga (Sonya's Special Forces, so I assume she would have studied some more obscure fighting styles, particularly if they make use of hitting the groin). Its not just about the styles either, it needs to be about the philosophy. I see Kano as a street fighter, not a trained martial artist, and the fact that he used Aikido was taking the piss, since its supposed to be about tranquility in some measure.

I think MK need to put more thought into the styles they give their characters, and start matching them to their characters. Everyone should have their own personal fighting style, and although it can be based on a certain discipline, it shouldn't be just that discipline and supposedly nothing else. No more of this "switch from one to another to a weapon style", just a button to draw your weapon and another to put it away. If they actually did something like this then I would be overjoyed. grin


Yeah, I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I think that some characters should have a mixture of styles while others should have only one style. I think for Sonya, Kenpo and Tae Kwon Do fit her well though if they're going to go with 1 unarmed style, I think she should use Tae Kwon Do. It could stand well on its own and I think it fits her nicely. For Jax, I agree with what you're getting at there with the Judo and Jujutsu stuff, so why not have him use Combat Sambo? It's the type of Sambo that's designed more for military combat and Sambo in general is heavily grappling, throwing, and takedown based so I think that's great for Jax given the way he's had that multi-throw attack in the old MK's.

I agree about Kano totally and that's one of the story bits I hated about MKDA. I think that for him, he should use something more like KFM or Shootfighting. There has to be a logical reasoning for the martial disciplines used by the various characters and although MKDA did do a decent job of that (at least explaining it for some characters), I really disagreed with Aikido for Kano and Ninjutsu for Cyrax. Since Scorpion is a Japanese ninja, he should be the one using Ninjutsu. For him, the question begs, what aspects of Ninjutsu should be more evident for a fighter like Scorpion? To me, personally, I'd see him as more of the aggressive type so I think if he used more of the Dakentaijutsu and Koppojutsu techniques, that would fit well for him.

Given good research and proper motion capturing of the techniques and making sure its accurate, they could do a hell of a job.
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Mortalman
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01/03/2006 11:55 PM (UTC)
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To be precise, I didn't say they should make single fighting style reflecting the real life, because it's a video game. And as for MK:DA and MK:D styles, they especially aren't much like their equivalents in the real life. Just look and the mentioned Aikido, Judo or any other style in these games.

Incidentally, you actually can put a fighting style not involving legs (for example) in the game. Just look at Steve Fox from Tekken. He strikes only with his hands (since he is a boxer) and instead kicks he has evades. Nevertheless, he's one the most dangerous fighters. What I'm saying is that everything can works fine, if done properly wink
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Sub-Zero_7th
01/04/2006 12:15 AM (UTC)
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Mortalman Wrote:
To be precise, I didn't say they should make single fighting style reflecting the real life, because it's a video game. And as for MK:DA and MK:D styles, they especially aren't much like their equivalents in the real life. Just look and the mentioned Aikido, Judo or any other style in these games.

Incidentally, you actually can put a fighting style not involving legs (for example) in the game. Just look at Steve Fox from Tekken. He strikes only with his hands (since he is a boxer) and instead kicks he has evades. Nevertheless, he's one the most dangerous fighters. What I'm saying is that everything can works fine, if done properly wink


Well, Steve actually does have kicks like when you roll back and do a kick or when he jumps up and steps on your foot...But um, I think when it comes to styles like Judo and Aikido, for MK, they should be combined with another fighting style.

For Jax, they could have him use a style that mixes Muay Thai and Judo techniques. That way, he can have some strikes and kicks for the attack buttons but also have some throws and takedowns.

With Aikido, I guess that depends on who would be using it. I mean, both Aikido and Hapkido are derived from Daito Ryu Aiki-Jujutsu with its grappling techniques, but Hapkido also has the strikes and kicks of Tae Kyon and Tae Kyon techniques are also in Tang Soo Do and Tae Kwon Do. What I'm getting at is, for one person, they could have him/her use Hapkido so things would work nicely.

With Boxing, well, Tekken does do a nice job of getting it done and not having kicks except for a couple of exceptions. However, I'm thinking that's where my Shootfighting idea comes in as that's a mixture of Boxing, Wrestling, and Jujutsu. I guess certain techniques like knee attacks and such could be incorporated to make up for any possible lacking kicks.
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Mortalman
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01/04/2006 02:00 AM (UTC)
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I played Tekken a lot and I know that Steve do kicks. But mainly in the situations when punch would look odd (e.g. step on opponent's foot). Besides, that detail is not really the point in this thread. I was just giving an example of well done fighting style, which not utilizes kicks. But as you said: "except for a couple of exceptions" smile

Back to the topic. I think that research 'bout fighting styles and trying to make them look like in reality isn't the most important in the fighting game. What they should really take care of is the fighting system, 'cause the list of flaws on the current system is very long.
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GoatsAreCool
01/06/2006 05:42 PM (UTC)
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Yes. One style each is the way to go. The 3 styles thing makes my brain hurt. It's a gimmick that distracts from the fact that each `style` was really sparse.

I also agree that the `styles` in the past 2 games looked too formal. If someone knows 2 martial arts, they should fight in a way that uses both skill sets.

I also agree that the characters should fight and move in a way that suits them- kano and akido was a bit wrong.

Having a mostly hands character is good too. One way MK can go one better than games like tekken is to have the characters shared moves different. Like how characters run, sidestep, handspring etc. It seems mad in tekken when Steve does a jumpkick, and kick get-ups like everyone else, or when Kuma does a flip- getup.

It would be sweet if you could have more options for movement. Since MK has projectiles, how about being able to dive to the side, rather than being able to block everything.

I'd love to see a no-kicks character with weapons.
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queve
01/06/2006 06:30 PM (UTC)
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Mortalman Wrote:
I think that some characters in MK6, which have fighting styles previously introduced in MK5 are already slightly boring because of that. But they added some new ones, mixed up already existing and assinged them to other characters in order to avoid a situation where new fighter has same 2 styles as some character in MK5. And I guess it was OK for Deception, but having the same fighting system in MK7 will be just to much.



I agree. New characters should have new styles (if that fighting system will still be used in Mk7), and no character should have the same style as another in the game.

Leave the original styles to the first characters that had them in MKDA, for example, Sonya should keep Tae Kwon Do, not Kobra, etc.

I hope we get a new better fighting system for Mk7, as MUCH as I LOVE the fighting styles, we need something new or it will be boring.
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