If you ask me, MK: Armageddon should be about absolute chaos.

I mean, MK3/UMK3/MKT is as close as you can get to armageddon in the context of a single force looking to bring about things as we know them.

So, if they're actually calling a game Armageddon, it better be BIG, with maximum potential for things to go batshit.

So, I think it should be all about factions.

Onaga the Dragon King is again dead.
Outworld is absolutely up for grabs, but because no one has Outworld, everyone's more interested in the populated realms.

Either whoever wins is going to get Outworld, or it'll be a consolation prize to someone else. Why waste time on no man's land?

Shinnok is back to take everyone on, and score Outworld.
Lucifer is back (for the first time), to reclaim the Netherrealm.
Rayden is out to take EVERYONE on to make sure noone fucks up.
Shao Kahn is back with his motley crew to get revenge, and Outworld.

The Special Forces are there.
The Earthrealm's chosen are there.
The Edenians are there.
The Seiden are there.
The Tekunin are there.
The Brothers of the Shadow are there.

EVERYONE has an agenda, be it to serve themselves and their own goals, or someone else.

Welvcl put man for the game to live up to its title it has got to include all you have mentioned.

I absoloutley want the Tekunin and Sektor to be included and the Lin Kui (sp?)

Couldn't have done a better job myself

I don’t think old bosses should be new bosses again. It was fine in MKDA (Tsung) because of the deep storyline and very well elaborated plot, besides, those 2 didn’t even feel like bosses in that game, with all the Dragon King stuff around, we already knew who was the true boss even if he wasn’t in that game

Shinnok has potential, and he is a very interesting character, I love his storyline, all they need to do is change is look a bit (his renders were awesome) and make him look more like a supreme force then just a normal mortal. He must return...but NOT as a boss...

I wonder if they could make Raiden the boss. Just a thought, but they could weave in little FMV sequences between the battles, kind of like Soul Calibur or Dead or Alive, but making a bit more sense. The one before Raiden would be him coming down and saying something different dependent on alignment, like, for the evil he would say "I won't let you harm Earthrealm", for the good he would say "I don't need weak heroes", and for the neutral, well, Scorpion is the only real neutral, and if he is serving the Elder Gods then a showdown between Scorpion and the renegade Raiden is kind of required, so he would say "I defy the will of the Elder Gods, I make my own law now."

If they bulked him up and gave him the feel of a boss then that would work, although I'm not sure how they would go about doing that. I wouldn't mind Shinnok being the boss though, providing they make him an actual Demon-God this time, rather than just a shape-shifting mortal like Shang Tsung. I mean, even Tsung had moves of his own. I think he could be excellent, if they updated his look and his abilities.

Shinnok can only return as a boss if they completely revamp his look and moves, it's as simple as that..There was nothing powerful/intimidating about him in MK4 at all.

If they refuse to revamp his look and moves then personally I don't want to see him back at all..But if I had to settle for the old Shinnok to come back he's gotta be coming back as a normal character.

That goes without saying!
The guy needs a moveset, even if it isn't terribly technical in it's nature.

As far as who the bosses are -- building off my last post, I think it'd be great if it would just be relative to each character. Take the heavyweights (Shao Kahn, Lucifer, Shinnok, Rayden), and then allocate the most logical to each character by storyline...

Maybe Shujinko should get offed at the begging of the next game. Kano, Kira, and Kabal realign and cut his ass up.

If Shujinko does get offed then it'll be by Raiden, since the Black Dragon have no quarrel with him, Kano is dead, and that angle has already been set up in MKD anyway. That's a little off-topic though, we are talking about Shinnok, the boss from MK4.

well lets recap..Shao Khan is still alive and wanting power. The One Bieng may or may not come into play in this one and kill everything. Onaga could still be alive.

Noob Saibot now rules the Netherrealm.
Raiden has turned into a bastard
Maleena has taken Kitana's place
Lui Kang may or may not become alive
Scorpion is the Gods chosen one
Sub-Zero may have been killed or not
Havok has created another Shao Khan...so there may be two shao khans (WTF?!?!?!?)


So right about now there is all-out chaos...yeah there is enough going on right now, and for a fallen god to rise again could happen..maybe even the One Being possess Shinnok.

Like earlier MKs, I really don't think you can take Deception's endings literally. Particularly where various endings specifically contradict each other.

Say what now?

Lucifer is back (for the first time), to reclaim the Netherrealm.


That would be very interesting if it came down to HIM getting involved.

Yeah, I really think it would be fantastic, and it's a way to introduce a new character that can highlight something we haven't really seen from the MK universe yet.

And of course, the big question is: Friend or foe?

I'm elaborating on these ideas in this thread, if you're interested.

NO!

Err...I mean, please no.

Adding Lucifer to the game would be too...whats the right word?...Cliché+corny+silly.

We don’t need to involve the devil in the game, yes, they can change the character so it doesn’t necessarily resemble the devil we all know as satan or prince of darkness, but still, we don’t need another game that involves a Christian element like him/her/whatever. I yes don’t see the point of satan in Mk...its rather stupid when we apparently have more powerful evil forces walking around and various different kinds of Gods.

I havent seen your thread btw, this coment was to the idea of having him in the game, but your thread might have some interesting points, I will check it out.

I like the idea of Shinnok returning and this time he get's his REAL medallion back. After all it is his power's that is supposely sealed within it and I assume he knows how to use them to their full potential. The idea of an evil Elder God with his full powers out to destroy all of existence in order to remake it in his image is a classic. As for returning characters you would have to have the known active gods (Raiden, Fujin), all of the chosen (whether they have died or not/turned or not), and of course Noob Saibot at least.

New characters can include previously unseen member(s) of the Brotherhood of Shadows and perhaps another she-demon (this time not one who want to redeem herself or has come to like one of the 'heroes' but truely wants to serve evil).

The sub-boss could be that Hell Hound that never made it into a game or perhaps a new oni that looks more like a demon that the previous one's we have seen so far.

Well, you obviously know what my counter argument is based on what you've said, but I think it's also pretty obvious you underestimate the opportunity for 'originality.'

We already know of Lucifer by name, as the ruler of the Netherrealm, which seems to share only superficial traits with the Christian concept of Hell. The Netherrealm is distinctively MK in it's style, and there's no reason Lucifer wouldn't be the same.

If you really wanted to strip it down, Lucifer is an archetype that Shao Kahn and Shinnok themselves fall into. In fact, Shinnok very much assumes that role as would-be invader and ruler of Hell, rebelling against the Elder Gods that were once his peers.

In the other thread I haven't yet gotten around to elaborating on the Lucifer aspect. If you get a chance to check it out, the Blaze bio mentioned is relevent to it.

Ultimately, my point is, as played out it is, by any other name a rose smells as sweet. A character that suffers from a well-known moniker, a moniker already established in MK history, need not be watered down because of it.

In fact, just to go against usual type, I'd see Lucifer as more of a hero.
In the scheme of Armageddon, it's a pretty simple premise.

Shao Kahn is back at strength and returning to reclaim the rulerless Outworld, and attack Edenia and Earthrealm - zero tolerance Rayden is out to stop he and a mysterious secondary threat, while controlling all realms under one law - the Earthrealmers and Edenians are playing their usual tune, under the guidance of Fujin - and everybody's MKing.

The mysterious secondary threat, which is scorching the Outworld skies and filling them with fire is Shinnok, who's recovered from his defeat in MK4, and now out to merge Outworld with the Netherrealm. (Shinnok is still ruler of Netherrealm).
Someone mentioned a new group of the Brothers of the Shadow - I imagined certain deceased characters, reborn much like Noob.

MEANWHILE -- Lucifer has devoured the soul of the Dragon King (bound by Nightwolf in the Netherrealm), and emerged in Outworld by way of his servant, Blaze.
His role is simply to take control of the Netherrealm once more, so in effect he's a psuedo good-guy.

So, y'know... as an exhisting piece of the MK mythology, and with a title that asks A LOT of the threat, I think it'd be a helluva shame not to see Lucifer in a game.

So, in the context of this thread (re: maybe shinnok should be the next boss...), the idea is that there are effectively four bosses: Rayden, Shao Kahn, Shinnok and Lucifer. Each boss relevent to certain characters, depending on their storylines.

While I agree that I would really like to see a more story-oriented Arcade mode, i.e. with enemies and bosses specific to the character whom you are playing as, I think Lucifer is rather defunct. While I see your point about him returning as a hero, and Midway using its discretion to make him a more original character that would fit in with the rest of the MK crowd, I just don't think he would be necessary to the story, or really that interesting.

To begin with, his appearance in Mortal Kombat 7 would be as a new character, and there are already too many one-shot characters who still need to be expanded on before more are added. Firstly I would ask why he would become actively involved in the battle for the realms when he could just sit himself on the throne of the Netherealm again in Shinnok's absence? Secondly I would assume that when Shinnok vanquished him the first time, he either sealed his essence away to stop him from recreating himself, or completely destroyed him. Either way, he won't be free to come back.

Lucifer was a good way of tying the MK mythology to the mythology that we have here in the real world, but I think that is really all he is good for. He makes an excellent plot point in the history of Shinnok, but at the end of the day he is really just a foot note.

I always saw Lucifer in MK as a benevolent soul anyway. He was the only "God" who was willing to rule over the Netherealm (because who wants to live amid nothing but evil?) and he did his job of punishing sinners well. When Shinnok was banished to that realm, Lucifer continued to do his job and punished him for his transgressions, up until Shinnok blew him away one day and sealed his Godly essence to stop him from returning. Shinnok ascends to the throne and takes Lucifer's mantle of power, which he uses to form armies of demons and wraiths to do his bidding, while the demons who were created by Lucifer try to see to it that the Netherealm operates smoothly now that their creator is gone.

I don't see Lucifer coming back, because a) he is unneccessary to the current story, and b) he's only interesting as back-story anyway. Plus, I think there are enough all-powerful Gods and monsters already.

Like I said, very cool and interesting ideas can be formed and developed if the concept of Lucifer is changed to something different that isn’t quite associated with the Christian elements of hell and satan, but it doesn’t change that fact, that after all, that’s who he is.

I find your ideas interesting, and the way to portray the “devilâ€? as a hero is something original IMO, I think that’s a story worth to see in Mk, but Im not fond to the idea of involving HIM in the game, it just brings too many religious (Christian/Catholic/whatever) things in mind.

Maybe if Lucifer was a supreme shadow that concealed different sort of evil divinities, maybe then it would be awesome. Like he is not only known as Lucifer or Luzbell, but also as Baphomet, and the rest of the evil religious lords.

The concept of Lucifer/satan has been used way too much in games, and while some manage to keep the story interesting (Diablo), others are just…repetitive and predictable. While he could, I simply dont see him "evolving" to something past the cliché in Mk.

Hmmm... I really think you underestimate the base-level potential for it to be something entirely different, and removed from any fairytale, or Catholic designs of Lucifer and/or Satan.

I mean, essentially Mortal Kombat negates Christianity by it's very structure with the different realms, and Gods and Elder Gods.

We already know that Lucifer once ruled the Netherrealm, but was eventually overthrown somehow by Shinnok. I don't think it's been elaborated beyond that... although, I might be missing pieces of the puzzle from Mythologies.

Lucifer's origins in the MK world could really be open to anything.
I think by extension of my interpretation of Lucifer as a psuedo-hero, you could go down a lot of different paths. There's nothing necessary to say he's anything remotely related to Christian mythology.

In fairly typical MK tradition he could even originally be from one of the other realms, like the Orderrealm, or Earthrealm.
My suggestion is that he's trying to take the Netherrealm back from Shinnok (with the aid of only Blaze, Moloch and Drahmin - and indication of his power, compared to the other 'bosses' with larger squads).

I could very easily see him as a powered up Rayden, serving as a protector and administrator for the Netherrealm. It's fair to assume he could've been appointed by the Elder Gods, when the One Being fragmented into the realms, and the Netherrealm was designated a place for the wicked and dead.

That administration role lends itself to connecting to another discussion I had, regarding the process by which a deceased soul becomes a spectre. Perhaps it is an appeal process governed by Lucifer, or after him, the corrupt Shinnok, which further enhances his role as a hero of consequence.

There's no reason he even has to look anything like a Catholic devil (just like Shinnok doesn't...), taking an appearance more akin to Rayden, perhaps, but erring on the side of something darker.

I really think MK's style just squashes the predisposition of a Christian devil. The guy could be anything, and preferably incredibly powerful.

Part of the storyline I had envisioned would dictate that the Dragon King was defeated, and Nightwolf's Deception ending took place AFTER the fact. So, he bound Dragon King in the Netherrealm with his sins after death, which meant the Dragon King was bound to that realm anyway.

Lucifer, still in hiding in the Netherrealm discovers the Dragon King in bondage, and feeds on his soul to finally make up the energies lost at the hands of Shinnok.

Then by way of Blaze, he enters the fray in Outworld.

Of course, to me, the fun of it is then seeing the four bosses together, and Shao Kahn actually being the lowest threat on the list. A guy who I think many of us have always rated higher than MK4's Shinnok.
We're talking about a fully developed Shinnok with incredible power, Lucifer at much the same, and Rayden without the constraints he's previously been under.

The ideas sound overall great, I guess I could give it a chance, theres still something that screams “clichéâ€? in my head, but who knows, maybe, maybe it can turn out to be something good.

And btw, I would love to see Lucifer as a FEMALE, now that would be interesting. We definitely need a female boss or sub-boss in Mk.

Actually, I think Sheeva should have been a sub-boss in MK3. Like, have her playable, but also as a sub-boss like Shang Tsung in MK2. I think she had a fair bit of potential, but they wasted it completely. I'm not sure why everyone had such a problem with her too, I mean, a big, over-muscled powerhouse of a female kicking all manner of arse? What's not to love?

Maybe Shinnok can kiss my ass....

I really wouldn't want him back as a boss. He had his chance and was a complete waste of space. They dragged a seriously cool concept into the ground with his appearance in MK4/Gold. If he must come back, he should just be a normal character. He may reach boss potential at a later date, but not now.

Well, there are a lot of ways I could see it going that would end up cool, but I hate to say I don't see Shinnok in any of 'em.

First, I agree with Mick Lucifer's absolute Chaos idea. The MK games have been setting up something like that for a long time, and they now have enough players to populate the board. In that vein, almost every character has a personal vendetta, so why not make the Boss their ultimate foe?

Second, there's the whole no-more-mister-nice-guy Raiden theory. This is pretty popular, and honestly, this is what I see Boon n' the gang doing, although I don't think it would be the best option. Anyway, Raiden is pretty obviously the boss in this one.

Third, hear this one out; bring back Liu Kang: as the boss. His warrior-spirit is trapped somehow, and his body retaken by someone else who is very, very bad. Who this is would be another big build up, like the Onaga. Once Lui's zombie was destroyed, the culprit would be revealed, and it would be like the cliffhanger between Dark Alliance and Deception all over again. Although hopefully it wouldn't have all the plot problems of those two.

I'd have to stress, the Rayden thing only works if there's more than one boss, I think. I think the combination of the four (Lucifer, Rayden, Shinnok & Shao Kahn), is far superior than any of the parts.

And then the cliffhanger of the next game is revealed that Zebron was really pulling all the strings, and then Zebron conquers all the realms.