One thing for Kai: FREAKING CAPOEIRA!!!

If NRS will make his fighting style capoeira,I swear,I will main him,I am not even talking about special moves now!

The reason Kai and Liu were allied in MK4 was because at that point in time, Liu was no longer the young guy who had trained all his life and now had to prove he could win the tournament or whatever. It was well past proven. He'd learned everything he could from Bo' Rai Cho and Raiden and saved the world already, it was pretty much time for him to sit back and become a mentor himself to someone new. It was a student/teacher relationship.

'Course, that's all out the window now. Hell, it went out the window by the end of MK4 because of the poor execution. But even though they didn't carry it out right, the IDEA was perfectly sound. Heroes don't have to die to be replaced. Getting old and retiring would be even better for some stories.

I never got the impression Liu was supposed to be a mentor to Kai. The problem with it is that in MK4 Liu hand neither gotten old, nor retired. He and Kai seemed about the same age. In addition he was right there on the roster, and even in the plot it wasn't like he'd taken a less active role in the events of the game. In addition, Kai and Liu never even interacted in that game, it was Raiden who gave him the "I am proud of how far you've come" speech in ihis ending. Maybe it IS what they intended, but as you said, the execution was terribad.

In order to have any other kind of hero, I honestly believe you have to neutralize Liu. You don't have to kill him, but he has to be out of the new hero's way somehow. Either sitting on the sidelines or working for another group.

Hell, if we send Liu off on the "Embittered hero" path and leave Kai working for Raiden, I still don't think many people will look at him as the new hero. Our attention will be on Liu. But at least Kai's got a chance to do his thing without the other Shao Lin running interference.

Well,you guys keep forgetting about Kung Lao after he is revived (he most definitely will be).Then it will be some puzzle regarding "hero mantle" with three Shaolin Warriors on hand.

Well that won't really be much of an issue until MK11. Besides that, Kung Lao's not really in contention with Liu OR Kai. He's got his own distinguishing characteristics that set him apart from those two. Kai's in need of that.

True but the tragedy of MK4 is that it had so little story, the bios and endings were so short and poorly done, that almost nobody interacted with anybody in that game, and their intentions for the characters almost never came across. But there was an official tie-in comic to be considered, which depicted Kai as a student training under Liu. And if the comic is too apocryphal in your mind, one must remember that the game itself established Kai's dream was to prove himself worthy to be a "Shaolin warrior", and that Liu already is a Shaolin.

I think that Kai is one of those characters that was more or less a victim of the game that he was in. I like MK4, but the 3D technology was rather limited and none of the characters really had a ton of moves or depth to them.

MOVES

Granted, I do think that his moves are relatively generic, but he does have the foundation for a very interesting character moves-wise. They could really take the capoiera angle to the next level, giving him some special moves or even basic moves and combos that utilize this unique style.

I don't mind the rising/falling fireballs, but it'd be nice to see some variation. Perhaps his super version of these would split in to three that fan out in a triangle?

Or perhaps instead of simple projectiles, he throws fire that spirals down through the ground and up (and vice versa). Something to make it look a bit different is what I'm getting at here.

I'd keep his rising punch, but I'd add something to that as well. Perhaps multiple punches plus that can combo in to an air throw?

I'd also give him some sort of counter for both projectiles and a super version that conunters regular attacks. For the projectiles, he takes out his gurkha knife from MK4 and swats it back at the opponent. For regular punches/kicks, he catches the limb and does a combo that maybe a punch and a kick in to a flipping throw.

STORY

But while his movelist has potential, I think it's his story that NRS needs to work on the most. The guy was completely bland in MK4 and MKA.

Personally, I think that they need to do something to separate him from the White Lotus/Liu Kang/Kung Lao/Shaolin angle. He needs to be his own man. Maybe he leaves the White Lotus Society on bad terms.

Perhaps with Kung Lao and Liu Kang gone, part of the society wanted him to represent the group at Shinnok's Tournament and another part does not, (maybe because he was an outsider). He leaves, hoping to end the grieving group's inner turmoil, only to have a renegade part of the group now trying to hunt him down and kill him for deserting them.

Yes, I know. That's basically Sub Zero's shtick from MK3, with his own clan out to kill him.

BUT...

Given the fact that Sub Zero doesn't actually turn rogue and escape from automation in the new storyline, well, it never happened. It would be an interesting twist that because that didn't happen, and because Kung Lao and Liu Kang were killed, that a different group would be out to kill one of their own because of how Rayden changed the past.

It's just an idea though. You could also have him get involved with Tanya somehow, only perhaps he doesn't make the same mistake that Liu Kang made in MK4.

Perhaps they develop this sort of "Love/Hate" type of thing. Maybe the have it bad for one another, but hate themselves for it because they're on opposite sides and serve higher purposes. They might save one another from certain death, only to tell the one in peril that they should've let them die etc.

Again, just spitballing. But it would be kinda cool to see Kai in these types of roles. The lone warrior who's a good guy, but hunted by the "good guys," in love with a woman from the other side whom he knows is evil, but doesn't dare allow himself to think that he could turn her over to Earth's side. Well, maybe there's a small part of him that hopes...

He's a wanderer, doesn't know who he can trust, but some believe that he could be the next chosen one, but does he?

So yeah, I think there's plenty that can be done with Kai.

The idea of Kai being shunned from the White Lotus I find interesting.
I'm not so keen about the hunting Kai down path, since they are Shaolin Monks and I'd like to think they work in different methods than a clan of hidden assassins.
But Kai being dishonorably discharged puts him in a state where he's seeking to get back into the White Lotus's good graces, if ever. I'd hope it's an event that the Shaolin Monks can not forgive.
What caused the fallout could define his character.
One example:
- Before anything went wrong, Kai would be the next chosen monk after Kung Lao. Winning a small White Lotus tournament demonstrating more honed skills than the rest, even long time contestants, Kai became respected amongst the monks. Although young, Kai has fulfilled his life long dream to become the Shaolin Monk representing the White Lotus.
However once the Outworld invasion started happening, Kai wasn't at all going to allow it. Kai without the head Shaolin Monk's approval took some battle ready monks in training and due to poor strategy, a hunger for fighting and inexperience, accidentally lead the monks in training to their deaths against Shao Kahn's forces.
Stripped of representing the White Lotus order, Kai begins a journey of enlightenment. Once Raiden chooses Kai despite the White Lotus banning him, it could cause more conflict.
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A thought is because Kai's stripes appear tiger like that he could have personally traits in tune with the Chinese Zodiac Tiger

What would it be like if Kai learns from Raiden about his fellow monks' (Liu & Lao) death and decides to fight in the tournament just for himself and not for the White Lotus.

Kai gets back kicked by Liu Kang under a hooded cloak and was shocked to find out he's alive. Kai and Liu have a fight and is enraged at Raiden for telling him that Liu wasn't dead. Kai decides to go to Fujin and was forced to Liu as his enemy.

I don't really buy the idea of a renegade section of the White Lotus wanting to kill an ex-member.

Personally, I'd play on the fact that Liu Kang, if he's even still alive or is brought back to life by some means, no longer trusts Raiden's judgment. Kai would still be on Raiden's side because he wasn't there to see that the God of Thunder is a giant screw up who will bargain away his own allies' lives or souls, and still sees him as an enlightened benefactor. That would put him and the disillusioned Liu in direct conflict.

As far as fighting style, while Capoeira goes with his MK4 hand stand special, personally I was thinking something a bit more along the lines of Hei hu quan. It's acrobatic, it's a Shaolin style, and it's name translates to Black Tiger Fist. How perfect is that?

BTW, what do you guys think about his MK4 weapon, the Gurkha Knife?

I thought it was an odd choice of weapon for a former Shaolin Monk with his disposition. But if they went for the ferocity angle I mentioned in my original post, I think it'd be pretty appropriate.

Kai's the sort of character I feel doesn't need a weapon...though there were some elements to the MK4 knife and the machete he was going to have according to some MKA concept art that made me think "Guy who lives in the jungle and has to hack through vines and stuff" which I could see fitting his character.

You know, I think that I might have misrepresented my own idea due to poor word choice. When I said a "renegade" group within the White Lotus Society, I meant something more along the lines of a fundamentalist faction, or perhaps a less loaded term might be "hardliner / traditionalist" faction.

I'd look at it as a portion of the group that firmly believes that a Shaolin monk must be born and raised in to the group, and with Kai not fitting in to that category, they don't want to take the chance of him representing the Shaolin, even if he's a former member of the White Lotus Society and not a current member.

I think that it could be possible given the fact that we don't really know that much about the White Lotus Society. I've always taken them to be the sort of "warrior arm" of the Shaolin, but that's never been expressly stated anywhere that I know of.

Razor, I'm guessing that you might know more of the Society's background than I would, if there is any real background.

This is where I'm drawing my line of logic from though, so while I'd like to see something like this to give Kai some added backstory and more of a reason to be in the tournament than simply helping out his buddy Liu Kang like in MK4, I'm not sure how feasible it would be if there's backstory on the White Lotus Society that could contradict the mere possibility of a more hardliner faction within the society.

An idea I've come up with by synthesizing some of the ideas in this topic, as well as his MK4 background:

We have Kai as the 3rd runner up behind Liu and Kung Lao in the event that decided who would stand as the Shao Lin representative.

Unlike Kung Lao, he accepts that he wasn't good enough, so instead of being jealous, he's furious. At himself.

He leaves the order, feeling, through no fault of theres, he's learned ll he could by staying there.

He beings walking the Earth, training.

The Outworld invasion occurs while he is in South America. He returns to the Shao Lin temple after it's over only to learn of the deaths of Kung Lao and (maybe) Liu Kang.

The story mode, or at least his part, picks up from there.

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With this kind of background in mind, we have reasons for things such as the mystic fire moves (classic Shao Lin projectile standby) and a Shao Lin fighting style as a base, we have a reason for the Gurkha (or a Machete) due to where he was when Outworld invaded, AND we can even work a bit of Capoeira into his fighting style (there are only 2 things most people think of when they think of South American Martial Arts. Brazilian Jujitsu and Capoeira). On top of it, he's technically FORMER White Lotus at this point, like his MK4 Bio states.

The only background the White Lotus was ever given is that it's a secret society founded by Raiden or Raiden worshippers that's designed to find martial artists with great potential around the world and train them to defend Earthrealm from invasion. It's not actually a branch of the Shaolin Monks, it just seems like one because every member we've seen has also been or wanted to be a member of the Shaolin temple.

To be honest, Johnny Cage or Sonya joining the White Lotus would be as logical as anything else. They are, after all, warriors recruited by Raiden to defend Earthrealm.

Although...MK1 and 2 did kinda hint that there was some sort of split or rivalry in fact between the White Lotus and the Shaolin, that you could only be one or the other. For leaving the monastic life and presumably their beliefs to join the WLS, letting his hair grow out and all that, Liu was called a "renegade monk". And Kung Lao seemed mad at Liu when Liu returned to the monks and chose to represent them at the tournament, as though he had "abandoned the White Lotus". But that was long before they had actually said what the WLS was, it was just a mysterious secret club for kung fu masters back then, whose goals were a mystery.

I suppose there COULD be room to reimagine the White Lotus, based on the MK1 and 2 version, not to mention the fact that the society is never once mentioned in MK9, as if it's been retconned away to simplify the monks' backstories, as some sort of shadowy clan that WOULD have a "no one's allowed to leave alive" policy, because of a sort of "the first rule of fight club is do not talk about fight club" sort of desire to keep themselves secret. But I just don't know if I'd buy the CURRENT incarnations of Liu and Kung, as goody-goody as they are, being members of something so clandestine, not to mention that would make them too similar to the Lin Kuei.

I agree that having the entire WLS be that clandestine might lump them in with ninja clans. My thought was to have the WLS be like what you said: A secret society that seeks out warriors to defend earthrealm.

However, I think that under that umbrella, you could have two schools of thought, where one school is more open minded about whom they take in and what the rules of being in the WLS entail, while another school of thought might be more hardliner / traditionalist about who can become a member and whether they can leave or not, as well as a myriad of other possible rules that could've led to Kai leaving.

Obviously, the Liu Kang and Kung Lao would belong to the part of the society that tends to favor the first school of thought. They simply want good warriors that are willing to commit themselves to the cause.

But perhaps Kai leaving the group angers the more traditionalist members of the WLS, believing that someone who would abandon such an honorable society should not be allowed to either live or represent Earthrealm at the tournament (pick whichever one you will).

I think that the next MK game could be a good way to shed light on the WLS and really bring it out as a story thread through Kai and perhaps another new character that's hunting him down. At the very least, I think it'd be a nice new avenue to use to help develop Kai's story and background and make him more interesting.

I kind of see this second school of thought along the lines of how Hotaru could've been (though maybe not to that extreme). He probably saw himself as a good guy, bringing order to the realms, even if he had to do evil things.

Along those lines, these hardliners in the WLS don't have to be "evil" but rather they adhere to a strict code in the strictest of ways. Sure, they might be a bit fanatical, but they might look at it this way:

With Liu Kang and Kung Lao dead, Kai was supposed to be their representative at the next tournament. He was their "Chosen One." But Kai deeply dishonored the WLS by leaving and compounded that dishonor by then choosing to compete in the tournament.

To me, that's enough moral ground for this faction within the WLS to want to take action against him. It doesn't make them "evil" in and of itself, but it certainly makes whoever their represtative at the tournament, who is also there to kill Kai, much more of a gray area character who might or might not do some evil things (ie kill an earthrealm warrior).

Make Kai the Eddy Gordo of MK and he will shine forever.