By having all of the characters live on and make it all to the next-gen MKs along with the new characters wouldn't sit well with me. It would go against the plans to bring newness to the series and to start a lot of things fresh. Having all of the characters return ruins that. Many of the characters (e.g. Liu Kang, Baraka) have been overused and have long had their run.

The point of Armageddon was to stop these super-powered warriors from bringing the end to the realms. Having all of them return, especially to continue fighting, would lead to the end of the realms, which means no more Mortal Kombat since everyone will be gone.

I say, take a good handful of current characters and bring them back. All the others can either retire (e.g. Sonya, Johnny Cage, Nightwolf) or die (e.g. Sheeva, Baraka, Kano).

I agree 100%.

The idea of starting next-gen with a clean slate is lame. Novelty is crucial, but so is familiarity. This is a series, and so it must continue, not cease and start all over. That's just plain irrationality.

I've used that example many times too about comic book series. Batman, Superman, and Spider-Man have been overused, so they should die?

...plainly irrational.

What seperates people in this debate is the preferences different fans have. Some fans favor MK's story while others (like you and me) favor its phenomenal game and character designs.

So some fans don't care if most classics die because all they have their minds set on is a new good story. I still don't understand that, personally, because MK is primarily a game and so having something fun to play makes more sense to me than having something good to read.

We'll see how well the new characters in MK8 take over the series.

If they suck, what I think will happen is fans will complain and we'll get a lot of the classics back for MK9 or an Ultimate MK8. But who knows?

I think an MK: Shaolin Monks 2 is the best chance we have of getting to play as the classics one more time. For now at least.

it is exactly why they have to go - because some of the characters are appealing to me. I do not want Shang tsungs story to drag out any further.

As example, he is my top character, he has to stop now. Applies to every other character.

To QS(TB): The thing is, Batman, Superman, and Spider-Man are the central characters in their stories. With MK, the central character can change.

It's more than just the story but it's also a matter of keeping things fresh and new. Even if all of the characters were to return, along with the addition of the new characters, there would still be those comparisons.

I agree with what you're saying in regards to a backstory game as a means of playing as the classics. That's where the classic characters should be.

To Chrome: I personally don't feel that all of the characters need to go. I'd like some connection to the past that includes the current characters. I think quite a few characters are deserving of returning, such as Hotaru, who I know you like. For him to go would be a waste of good potential. Shang Tsung, on the other hand, I see what you're saying. I too like him, but I agree that he should go so that he won't be dragged out any further.

All must go as far as I'm concerned. However having them as maybe as like an extra hidden character with no story or anything would be acceptable.

I, personally, feel the the characters that have been in most of the MK games are embedded into American pop culture and removing them will eventually kill the franchise. (Unless it can capture a newer, fresher audience, which I doubt, with the lack of creative character concepts over the last few games)

As for the pallette swaps--to heck with 'em. The only people who care about them are on this website, and others like it. Go talk to people in gaming stores and the characters from MK1 and 2 are actually more popular. All the complaining that goes on around here that Rain or Ermac is left out of X or Y game... you'd think they were the most popular characters in the series when the truth is nobody away from the die hards care about them.

So complain about Johnny Cage, Liu Kang, Sonya, Jax, Kitana and company all you want, but there's a reason they've been in most of the games thus far--non-die hards love 'em, and killing them might just kill MK as well. We shall see...

I actually think that some of the newer character concepts are better than some of the older ones.

At least with Rain and Ermac, they made them into something better. Chameleon, on the other hand....let's not even go there...

Killing someone like Liu Kang off might just kill MK? No way. He's had his run. Same with Johnny Cage and Jax. I know you like JC, but let's face it. Aside from his MKA story, he's a shallow and unoriginal character.

But, that's not the issue here. I know some will argue that all big fan favorites (e.g. Sonya, Baraka, Raiden, Johnny Cage) should stay, but I feel that not all of them are really worth it. That's just me.

For MK to move on and have a pretty fresh new start with MK8, it's best for a good amount of characters to go.

Queen Sindel, That is exactly what I'm saying. There are some fans (and appears to be a lot) that really focus more on the MK story than the actualy characters themselves. (meaning: looks, style, skills and personality) I don't see why either. I don't see why everybody else can't see Mortal Kombat like we do. I mean come on, at the end of the day it's a fighting game, so you would rather see new people (that will probably suck based on all the new faces so far) than play with the fighters that you already know kick ass? You would rather see Mortal Kombat as a fighting game go down the drain for the sake of it's story? Maybe you would realize that it's not a good idea to kill CLASSICS when you see how many fans drop the controller and say "fuck this, what the hell is this?!"

Let's say all the characters DID die and we just slapped the Mortal Kombat title on that game. Could you really call it Mortal Kombat anymore? Hell No it might as well be a rip off of MK, a completly different game with the same title, and all different characters. Ed Boon might as well be looking to sue himself. I mean yeah if you are a fan and kept track of the story you would know why that happened, but what about someone who knows about the earlier MK's and decides to actually pick this game up for old times sake?
What would they think?

I'll tell you what they would think. They would purchase the game, get home eager to put it in their next-gen system and call their friends up like "Yo I just got the new Mortal Kombat, you know the one with that blue ninja that freezes people." And his/her friends would reply "oh you mean the one with all the ninjas and sorcerers? yeah I remember that, I used to play with that chinese guy with the fireballs all the time." After that they would come over, turn on the game, see all these new freaks and then say, "What?! I thought you said this was Mortal Kombat." The Owner reply's "oh It must have changed over the years. Well I don't recognize none of these guys so I'm getting my money back."
Friends:" We should at least play it first." (plays for a bit)
ALL: "Yep you should go get your money back, Mortal Kombat sucks now."

Yeah I know you think I'm crazy, and it probably would'nt happen like that, but it's true MK would loose many many fans. Not everybody knows or pays that much attention to the story. I love the story but I put my characters first.

The characters and story go together. What do you mean by style and skills exactly? Looks can change. About the characters themselves and their personality, some are good, others are lackluster. You're overrating the classics. Not all of them are awesome, kick-ass characters.



Uh, let's see....Maybe it's because everybody is different? I have my views and you have yours.



Why do you assume that the new characters are automatically going to suck? Given some of the new characters that were introduced in MKDA and MKD, they are better than the likes of Kano, Liu Kang, Baraka, and Kai.

What would make Mortal Kombat truly go down the drain as a fighting game is if the fighting system still fails to get with the times.



Mortal Kombat is not really dependent on any character, not even my favorite character, Sub-Zero. This isn't like superhero comics such as Batman, Superman, or Spider-Man, in which they are the central characters in their stories.



Chances are you don't really care about the story or even know much about it. I think you're simply someone who is afraid of change and overrates the classics.

Whether a lot of characters go or most-all characters return, if the fighting system is still lackluster, MK will still be lackluster as a fighting game.

See, it's either story buffs or gameplay/design buffs of MK that always emerge in this debate and take opposing sides.

MK's classics might not be individually central characters of the story, but they generally lead the story. Raiden, Liu Kang, Shao Kahn, Earthrealm warriors, etc. are usually the most leading.

Even if the story isn't dependent on the classics, it appears that the series itself is since the classics are always chosen to appear on the covers and commercials. After all these years, just look at who the faces of MK are. This site's layouts are based on classic characters, for a start, and they're the most recurring and promoted characters in the series.

The story can change also. A character with a great bio might have a crappy one in the next appearance he/she makes.

I don't think whatyouknowaboutMK is afraid of change. Like me, he just wants promising quality. If the classics remain, then we can be sure that some characters will be great and enjoyable as long they retain a recognizable look and moves. Of course we want novelty cuz a new game should of course introduce things that are new, but we also want familiarity. If it's gonna be MK8, then let it be "MK", not an entirely new game with nothing standard besides Scorpion, Subzero, and fatalities. Where's the continuity of the series in that?

Hearing Boon say that MK8 will consist of mostly new characters sends shivers down my spine cuz like even johnny_cage said, the latest games haven't introduced very exciting characters aside from a few. Classics continue to maintain the largest fanbase. Not ALL are popular, such as Nightwolf and Stryker, but generally speaking they're still the most praised which is why it doesn't make sense to throw them out the window.

MK players are the customers, and if we like the classics best, why would the sellers take them away? To me, that's just irrational. There's no good logical reason for doing such a thing since MK is a product. The characters are stale or overused is not a good excuse as long as customers keep wanting them.

Also, I don't think the characters and story go together all the time because, for example, Kitana is very strong and powerful in her story, yet her appearance and in-game personality does not reflect that. She's still treated like a stereotypical beautiful princess and doesn't even wear regal outfits.

Sub-Zero_7th, I understand that you have your preferences and opinions regarding MK's future, but the truth is, lots of characters are very popular among the customers and continue to shape and set the tone of the series, and that should not go unconsidered by the developers when making a new sequel.

I'm very much in the middle when it comes to this. I don't want too many characters to go away, because I want that sense of familiarity and connection with the past. But at the same time, I don't want most or all of the current characters to return. Some have become stale and will likely stay that way. Do we really need to see characters like Liu Kang or Chameleon again and again?

Stories are bound to change, one way or another. Although characters like Ermac have gotten better and now have good potential, that doesn't mean they should do that with most to all others who are lackluster.

Novelty is basically something MK has going for it, in a way. However, novelty isn't going to make for a good quality game. I do think that he is afraid of change with the way he's afraid that the new characters will suck.

All the characters have some level of popularity, and yeah, there are the bigger fanbases like Sonya's and Scorpion's. However, there needs to be a limit as to how many characters return, otherwise it'll just get ridiculous and MK still won't be taken all that seriously.

Some people have a hard time letting go of favorites, even if those favorites are stale, redundant, and boring. I still say that about half should just go and be gone, with some of them dying and others just retiring or whatever.

It's bad enough that we have to put up with Scorpion, but to drag on characters like Kano and Liu Kang as well? No way.

Bringing back most to all of the characters takes away that sense of starting fresh and that sense of moving on. A big problem with MK is that the MK team tries to cater to all the fans by bringing back these different characters, hence MKA. Even with some story changes, that particular character could still be lacking something (e.g. Sonya's MKA bio involving a new enemy but ZERO character development throughout her entire story).

I'm also afraid that the new characters will suck, but it's not because I'm afraid of change. It's because new characters have frankly sucked since MK4 except for a few, so it's only natural to expect the same thing for MK8.


If they are indeed stale, rebundant, and boring, then they wouldn't keep their fanbases. Clearly, that's just the way you and some others here view the situation, but the fans of those certain classics don't.

Some characters might have stale storylines, but they make up for it in other ways that keep them popular, such as Sonya with her lovable personality and signature moves, and Baraka with his appearance, moves, and personality.

These 2 characters are fun to play as, imo, which I find much more important that reading about them. I also find that they give the series more flavor than well-written characters like Ashrah and Shinnok.

Liu Kang has changed significantly. I don't see how he has become stale.

I don't agree that all classics should stay, such as Stryker and Nightwolf who have had hardly any impact on the series and whom I don't think attract even a decent number of people to the series, but I am in favor of most classics returning. It only makes sense that they return from the customers' point of view.

Despite how badly I dislike Scorpion and find him boring and annoying, it makes sense that they keep him because of his large fanbase. I don't think it would help the series' success to throw him away.

To me, ever since Vogel took over as the lead storywriter, we've been getting more diverse and interesting characters. I mean, I don't care for Mokap, Hsu Hao, or Moloch, but characters like Hotaru, Nitara, Ashrah, and Havik are much more interesting to me than some of the classics from MK1-MK3, such as Baraka and Sheeva.



The thing with some of these classic characters is that when it comes to their fanbases, they even overlook the characters themselves, really caring about things like looks and moves, not really wanting any change in their characters.



Sonya and Baraka are two examples of characters who suffer from the problem mentioned above, especially Baraka. Although they are both popular and have pretty big fanbases, both characters have not changed at all since their debut.

Sonya is still that hardass, aggressive, tough chick and Baraka is still that vicious, bloodthirsty monster. Because of these things, those who are fans love that and wouldn't want that to change.

But again, they both suffer from zero character development. They haven't really changed one bit. Sonya can still be tough, but I'd actually like to see growth and exploration into her as a character. However, we've never gotten that, which is a big shame. That's why part of me wants to see Kira and Sonya return, to have Kira be set up as Sonya's antithesis and continue to have an upper hand against Sonya.

Then we have Baraka, who is in a much much worse state than Sonya. This guy is all about gimmicks, kind of like post-retcon Scorpion. He has no real substance as a character. Yeah, yeah, he's a bloodthirsty monster. He likes to fight and kill. However, he's still the same Baraka as he was in his debut. He's still that 1-dimensional henchman that goes from master to master, that's it. There's nothing interesting about the character himself, about his personality. There are other characters who like to kill that are actually more interesting than he is.



The one thing I do like about Baraka is that he is fun to play as. However, not everyone is going to feel the same way. I don't think that Baraka really gives that much flavor to the series. He's not that original. He's not a compelling character that has depth and substance. He's just a shallow, gimmicky character with a stale, redundant story and the same 1-dimensional persona.

There are other, far more interesting villains than he is. The henchman role can be filled by a new character, someone that could be much more interesting than him. Given his established story and persona, he is doomed, because keeping in the same direction would still make him stale and taking him in a direction would lead to something predictable and overdone.



I'm not sure where you got this idea. If it's from the whole zombie story thing with MKD, I still don't know where you got that idea. At the end of the day, Liu Kang is still that goody goody hero that's still underdeveloped as a character. We're talking about someone who was the main hero in the older MK games. He could've had some good character development, but he didn't.


If the MK team are simply going to get pressured to bring everyone back or most people back, it's going to look bad and would make MK feel too stuck in the past. I'd still rather have a lot of the classics return through backstory games and not the main fighting games.

I think everyone's got a point here, and I also think you can't have a good story without a good game; everyone's got their opinion, so here's mine, there's are indeed a few characters who are pointless...like Kobra and Kira in MKD, you really only need one of the two to survive, there's no need to have that many Black Dragons in the game; and also, some characters who don't come out in the game still have their own thing going on.

So I believe every new character should be very well thought out, actually have a good reason to be there and should only be a few, not like seven new characters in each game; otherwise we won't get to see our personal favorites unfold because of other new characters coming in...

Kobra and Kira are pointless? I mean, I don't like Kobra, but I don't see where you're coming from. Too many Black Dragons? The only playable MK characters that are part of the new Black Dragon are Kabal, Kira, and Kobra. Kano and Jarek were with the old Black Dragon clan, and neither of their stories seems to have anything to do with Kabal's new Black Dragon.

What I meant is that it wouldn't make a difference in the story if either one didn't come out in the game, so why should they come out instead of giving other characters a chance to appear once more, characters we don't know much about like Kai, Jarek and Reiko.

Well, it's a video game. Their playable side is more important than their story side.

I really think you're underrating looks and moves. I remember everyone wanted to play as Rain before MKA was coming out because of his new awesome look. As for moves.... All I know is that when I press down, forward, low punch, I wanna see something amazing happen. What's the point of punching in combinations and buttons if it's not gonna do anything exciting?

The whole depth thing about the characters obviously isn't the factor than renders characters interesting or not. If this were a comic book, perhaps, but what should matter is having fun characters to play as first.

You said it yourself: Baraka is fun to play as. That's mainly all a character needs. If it were up to story, Sindel wouldn't be my fave then.

Believing characters with no depth or change are uninteresting is entirely subjective.


I actually thought there was a lot of novelty to him in MKD. That was a great comeback, imo. His story wasn't entirely overdone because he had that conflict going with Mileena.

I don't see how Liu Kang has become stale. He's not the Champion anymore, he's a soul trying to stop his corpse from killing people while freeing his brainwashed friends. That sounds like pretty new material to me. Superman and Captain America are still the boyscouts that they've always been but that doesn't stop them from being liked. Batman's personality hasn't changed either. He's still a mystery man.


That's just an opinion. Evidently MK does a good job of refreshing old characters while introducing new ones since most classics continue to maintain their fanbases.

We've discussed this before several times, you and I. I don't see a point in continuing.

So what if I said Baraka is fun to play as? That doesn't mean that he has good quality as an actual character. As a character himself, he's unoriginal and redundant. I think the novelty you're referring to with Baraka's return in MKD is simply him being a vicious, bloodthirsty monster. His story was really just more of the same and it continues to be that way. He's just as bad as Scorpion in that sense, but in a way, Scorpion is much worse.

If this were another fighting game like Tekken, then I wouldn't care as much about the story. But even in Tekken, despite me not really following the story all that much, there are just some characters I don't like because of their personality (e.g. Lili and Asuka).

Liu Kang may have something different to do with the whole coporeal form that he has to stop. But at the end of the day, he's still trying to save the realms, even if he isn't really the central hero anymore. Unlike Liu Kang, someone like Batman has that depth to him. Liu Kang, as a character, hasn't really had much exploration. The closest semblance we get of that is his sense of reluctance about his duties, that's it.

It's an opinion that MK does a good job of refreshing its old characters. With some, I can agree on (e.g. Shang Tsung). But with others (e.g. Sheeva), not really. Armageddon will be for nothing if something isn't done with the many kombatants. A lot of the characters brought back for Armageddon were just for completion reasons. Chances are, we won't be seeing a lot of them back anyway.

I know this has topic been discussed before, but you can tell that to whatuknowaboutMK?. He thinks he's speaking for the majority of the "die hard" fans, but he's just speaking for those that want a lot of the really liked classics back. While I want some classics back, others I'd rather not, and some of the ones I don't want back are ones that I actually like.

They changed the engine in RE4 for a reason. Natural evolution of old. That applies to characters and overall design. No more zombies in RE.

Having the classics for the sake of having classics is a bad way to do things. It does nothing but potentially drain the character if they have to keep coming up with progressively more outrageous ideas for keeping them around.

Let them go. It's ok.

QueenSindel(TheBitch), I agree with most of what you said.

What you're saying about story not being the only reason characters are liked is absolutely spot-on. I mean, come on, Scorpion's story has sucked since MK2 ended... and his MK2 story wasn't anything other than, "let's go get Sub-Zero!" but it was ok. Everyone who complains about Liu Kang or Johnny Cage or whoever else's story yet says "Scorpion needs to return! lololllollllzzzroflzzz" needs a reality check--his story is terrible, but he's cool because of his moves.

A lot of the people making this argument must be politicians; ignoring the facts where it suits them.

Sub-Zero_7th:
First off just so you would know, these were only MY opinions genius. Just like you have your views about the situation, I have my views. The fact that you think some of the newer characters are better than the likes on Kano, Lui Kang, Kai, and others you metioned was YOUR opinion. Now do I agree? No, and this is why it's YOUR opinion.

Now you say that I don't know of the story? You are right to some extent but as far as Mortal Kombat goes as a whole, I know of the story very much thank you very much. Truthfully it's just not as interesting anymore, and I can care less about these "new" bios from "new" characters. Once again before you forget, this is MY Opinion. You responded when I said "I don't know why people can't see things the way we do" by saying Uh... because everybody's different and has their own views. Uh... EXACTLY just because you don't like my views, you do NOT have to be a smart ass about it. I don't expect everyone to see things the way I do, I was just saying at least look at things from my perspective for once.

As far as fear of change goes. What the hell are you talking about? I've been playing Mortal Kombat since day one and has been a fan ever since. I'm one of them die hard fans ya dig? Why do you think my screen name is whatuknowaboutMK? For the simple fact that I love Mortal Kombat and do not know a lot of die hard fans like myself so everytime someone mentions Mortal Kombat I say, " oh word, you like Mortal Kombat? What you know about Mortal Kombat?" Most of the time I get answers like oh I use to play it when I was little and then they would get the names wrong and I would naturally correct them. I can name every last character in the series on the spot. My point is you say I'm afraid of change, but didn't things change since MK2? after MK1 we were introduced to characters like Jax, Kitana, Melina, Kung Lao, and Baraka. (just to name a few) From then on in every game, characters were added to the series.

Homie I basically welcomed change up until Deception came out. the last time I was satisfied with change was from MKDA. So to see the characters go down hill as regards to looks style and personality, that began to scare me. And again this is my opinion, if you like the new characters, then that's YOU. Since we are talking about opinions, I would like to say in MY OPINION that Ashra, Hotaru, Darrius, Shujinko, Kira, Cobra, Mokap, Movado, Taven and his Brother sucks. Now that's off my chest, you see what I'm saying? Now if I dislike almost all of the new characters ( I've accepted Havik, Bo Ri Cho, and Kenshi even though he's clearly a rip of Ermac.) what would I think of the new characters if the MK team continued at this rate?

I do agree with you on one thing though. The gameplay as far as the fighting goes is very important. If that is not improved then MK is digging it's grave for failure. I'm not saying I won't play MK8 if the classics are gone. Of course I'll play it's Mortal Kombat, come on. I'll give it a chance considering that you stress "change" but we'll see.

I understand what you're perspective is. However, I still say that if most-all of the current characters are going to return in the future games, it should be in the form of backstory games.

Just because Kenshi has telekinetic powers like Ermac doesn't make him a rip off. They are different in more ways than one, from their look to their story to their personality.

Chances are, bringing back most or all fan favorites would cause a good few of them to be drawn out too much and become stale.

Have you even wondered why some of these redundant, 1-dimensional, stale characters you're referring to are some of the most popular?


Perhaps because Batman has pages written about him, whereas Liu Kang and other kombatants are limited to only a few paragraphs... per game.

That is far from balanced. You're demands are too high.


I said most of the classic characters, not all. Obviously Sindel, Sektor, Sheeva and others were refreshed poorly considering their loss in popularity.


Somehow I don't think many fans will mind since the half-assed MKA is probably the most dismissible MK game of all, especially its story.

MK8 might not feature many returning characters, but it might not stay that way if fans complain about their favs. Isn't that why Deception was loaded with fan favorites? As far as I remember, fans wanted to see more classics return.