How to justify undead characters
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posted06/05/2014 04:39 PM (UTC)by
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MK_Fanatic_
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12/15/2009 06:55 AM (UTC)
The one thing I don't want to see in MKX is several returning characters who were killed-off, just to have them as zombies with no real backstory other than being Quan-Chi's or Shinnok's slaves.

I think it would be interesting if a handful of heroes (not Stryker, sorry) are resurrected BUT retain some of their memories. It would be interesting if the characters e.g. Sub-Zero were like ticking time bombs, similar to double agents that would turn on Raiden and the Earthrealm warriors when the time was right. Sub-Zero would naturally be inclined to team up with Raiden and there could be a cool power struggle between Sub-Zero fighting to free himself from Quan-Chi's control.
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Baraka407
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06/04/2014 01:22 AM (UTC)
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I don't mind seeing one or two if the plot makes them uniquely suited to return.

However I don't want a parade of characters that were killed returning now because Shinnok/Quan Chi need minions or slaves or zombies or whatever.

To me, that would be lame and a disservice not only to the fans of post MK3 characters in need of a second chance, but also to fans of the story in general.

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KingofKings97
06/04/2014 02:28 AM (UTC)
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I wouldn't mind if these undead warriors made a story mode appearance as Shinnok and Quan Chi's slaves in a cutscene but in no way should they take up a roster spot. I think the characters that died in the last game should be dead for good. The exceptions include:

Liu Kang (don't want him to be there but hey...he'll probably be there)
Sub Zero (duh)
Smoke (Body recovered by Lin Kuei and becomes a cyborg?)
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T-rex
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06/04/2014 02:38 AM (UTC)
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KingofKings97 Wrote:

Smoke (Body recovered by Lin Kuei and becomes a cyborg?)

He's still got Enenra inside of him.

I'm pretty sure that it feels right at home in the Netherrealm...

You want to talk about a timebomb waiting to happen, there's one.
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KingofKings97
06/04/2014 02:41 AM (UTC)
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T-rex Wrote:
KingofKings97 Wrote:

Smoke (Body recovered by Lin Kuei and becomes a cyborg?)

He's still got Enenra inside of him.

I'm pretty sure that it feels right at home in the Netherrealm...

You want to talk about a timebomb waiting to happen, there's one.


I'm not quite familiar with Enenra...could you explain please? If it was in the MK9 story I probably do not remember it.
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T-rex
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06/04/2014 02:44 AM (UTC)
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Smoke's MK9 Ending Wrote:
Tomas Vrbada was only a boy when he was abducted by an obscure cult and sacrificed to a demon. Burned alive, he returned to the mortal realm as an enenra, a creature of smoke and vapor. His captors were helpless against his shapeless form as he lashed out with rage, killing them all. His murder avenged, he returned to his human form, remembering nothing of his former life. Now aware of his true identity, Smoke understands he is no mere assassin. His destiny has been revealed.


This is gonna bite Shinnok in the ass big time.
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QueenAhnka
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06/04/2014 02:44 AM (UTC)
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I'm almost a 110% sure a good number of the dead characters will indeed return. If the rumors are true and this is all about worlds colliding and the old timeline crossing over into the new timeline, then that can provide a way for everyone else who died to come back, well at least their older selves. Ok...I'm starting to get confused now LOL

The bottomline is I'm sure Neatherealm has figured out a way to bring them back. They're not going to kill off all those fan favorites and leave them dead. The MK team seems to play it safe, As the saying goes- "No one truly dies in Mortal Kombat". I'll just be pissed if some of those characters take the spot of the few MK4-MKD characters that deserves it.
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KingofKings97
06/04/2014 03:00 AM (UTC)
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T-rex Wrote:
Smoke's MK9 Ending Wrote:
Tomas Vrbada was only a boy when he was abducted by an obscure cult and sacrificed to a demon. Burned alive, he returned to the mortal realm as an enenra, a creature of smoke and vapor. His captors were helpless against his shapeless form as he lashed out with rage, killing them all. His murder avenged, he returned to his human form, remembering nothing of his former life. Now aware of his true identity, Smoke understands he is no mere assassin. His destiny has been revealed.


This is gonna bite Shinnok in the ass big time.


So basically he can turn into legitimate Smoke at any time, killing whoever he wants without being captured? Sounds like a good reason to come back in my book!
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oracle
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06/04/2014 05:51 AM (UTC)
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The dead heroes can be the canon fodder for story mode this time. I wouldn't want a lot of time focused on them. We got the dead and fighting for freedom storyline in MKD with Kitana and Jax.
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TemperaryUserName
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06/04/2014 06:43 AM (UTC)
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If the previous timeline and the current timeline are crossing over, then there's really no need to resurrect anybody. Everyone was technically alive before the final battle in Armageddon.
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Charybdis
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06/04/2014 07:19 AM (UTC)
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I don't think the en masse deaths in MK9 will stop them bringing back whoever they want. I think the purpose of the timeline cross, which I think is indicated by the X and the multiple variations of each character, is to allow them to cherry pick and steal characters from the original Armageddon timeline.

I don't think that all the dead characters in MK9 will return but I think the major ones will, especially in the Story with them later being DLC.

Kitana: Return totally
Sindel: No return
Nightwolf: Return in story, DLC
Liu Kang: Return in story, DLC. Liu would be a major seller for DLC
Shao Kahn: No return
Smoke: Return totally
Jade: Return in story, DLC
Jax: No return
Sub Zero: Return totally, somehow
Stryker: No return
Kabal: Return in story, DLC

In regards to justification, I foresee some alternate timeline heroes killing their undead selves: alternate costume ahoy. I just hope they've got this planned out and don't butcher the story. I hope the crossover is a one-and-done thing, and MK11 moves on to a real new era, though that's likely a 2020 release

I'm expecting heavy DLC support, with some exclusive to the next-gens.
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Ravenbez
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06/04/2014 07:37 AM (UTC)
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You could say the timelines were effected (again) with Shao Kahns defeat, or maybe that with Quan Chi and Shinnok invasions the souls from the Neatherealm were released.

Who knows, im sure there will be a random explanation. no one ever stays dead in MK. John Vogel said that himself in one of the biocard videos for deception (or armageddon)
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Jaded-Raven
06/04/2014 08:29 AM (UTC)
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I'd like to see all the dead characters under Quan Chi's might to be fully revived to fight for him without being undead/zombie like. And when Quan Chi and Shinnok's inevitable fall happens, they should all return to their former selves.
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Noobsmoke92
06/04/2014 10:00 AM (UTC)
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Whatever they do with these undead heroes,I want the story to make it like each of them needs to be rescued separately,because they are in different places and doing Quan Chi's bidding. If they are rescued by Raiden at the same time,it would be very lame,because it kills very interesting opportunity to enrich the stories for the rest of MKX cast.

For example,I want Sub-Zero to be rescued by Sareena and/or Scorpion. Sareena just wants to get revenge at Quan Chi and Shinnok after MK Mythologies. Plus, she met Bi-Han all those years ago,and knowing that Sub-Zero once defeated both of her masters,she believes that with Kuai Liang restored she would have better chance to end enemies. Scorpion,though,might want to help her,because he wants Quan Chi dead as well after learning the truth,but he would need Cryomancer's help in defeating the sorcerer because he is too powerful now to take on alone,therefore somehow making MK9 Subbie ending a reality. Of course,at first,Scorpion would be disgusted with the idea of fighting alongside Lin Kuei,but will eventually be persuaded by either Sareena or Raiden to get Subbie back. You see what I did there and how many characters benefitted just by this subplot? I want something along these lines.

Of course,rescuing Stryker,Kabal and especially Jax should be Sonya and Johnny's mission,since Jax is Sonya's CO and Kabal is former Black Dragon,so maybe Kano would be involved somehow? Like Quan Chi approached Kano,now VERY rich and powerful from the trades he made in MK9 (i liked kinda his ending,so maybe that would be somehow true too?), to be their enforcer on Earth? And as an insurance,he would order Jax,Kabal and Stryker to protect Kano from Special Forces while he is wreaking havoc on SF base with his heavily armed thugs? It would be up to Sonya and Johnny Cage to free them... Boom,another subplot.

Since Liu Kang is dead and there is no other GOOD Edenian character,maybe it would be cool to make Mileena free Kitana,Sindel and Jade. You must admit,that it would be awesome to see Mileena as a good guy here and Kitana as a bad guy,plus storywise it would make sense too because Shinnok in MK9 flat out told that Outworld is his target as well,so since Kahn is dead,and Shang Tsung is not around,Mileena is the heir apparent. And it would be VERY weak for Mileena to just hand over this political power to Shinnok without a fight,so she might agree to help Raiden with the battle.Keep in mind that Baraka wanted Mileena to rule in MK9 when Kahn was assumed dead,so that means she has support,and Ermac's MK9 was kinda brilliant with whole Jerrod stuff. So think about this: Kahn's minions as good guys vs Edenian royalty as bad ones. You would have Ermac vs Sindel (husband and wife lol), Kitana vs Mileena and Baraka vs Jade (in MK9 she whopped his ass,so maybe it is time for the Tarkatan to redeem himself and get some glory?) Just the idea that Baraka is a good guy is such ridiculous that it truly shows how desperate times are.

I have ideas for every single undead hero and Liu Kang and Shang Tsung as well,but I dont think people want to read all that wall of text lol.

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Toxik
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06/04/2014 05:46 PM (UTC)
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This is MK 10!... By now you guys should know that death means nothing on MK.
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stinky_thc_cloud
06/04/2014 11:03 PM (UTC)
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I really hope the majority of the dead stay dead. It would be a huge cop out if they came back... We live in the times of Game of Thrones NRS, lol we can handle it. I think they intentionally killed off a bunch of them because they could write more interesting characters/ better play styles in their place.

Out of all the Edenian princess only the most interesting survived. MK3/Deception characters like Stryker, Kabal, Smoke and NightWolf (Guaranteed they want to step away from Wolf as he's pretty stereotypical/ borderline racist). Jax is the less interesting of him and Sonya. I think the deaths were definitely thought out and not just for shock value. The only OMG WTF was sub zero. This is a guy who's linked to quan chi/ has had his brother resurrected so really it's not that shocking.

With that said I REALLY hope the sub we see in this game is just a new kid taking the matle of sub zero... He stands for what the Lin Kuei used to be about before they "sold out" lol. To me that's way better than "tadaa he's back from the dead". So really I don't want ANYONE back. Scorpion and Noob are specters/wraiths/whatever. It's them and them only, it makes them unique.

So honestly the only resurrection I can justify here is Jax'. Sub doesn't need to be resurrected and be a THIRD servant to quan chi... Noob is almost pushing it considering his killer also works for Chi. Making Smoke as a soulless cyborg is just as silly as a resurrection IMO. We have two soulless cyborg one of which will likely become a good guy latter one. We don't need a third. Tinker around with Jax make him a soulless cyborg. Yes he's a third but not lin Kuei. He would be the American answer to the Lin Kuei inneciative. "Program" his to be good... but he's only programmed that way.

tl;dr Bring back Jax' as an American alternative to the Lin Kuei Cyborg. Anything else is messy.
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stinky_thc_cloud
06/04/2014 11:20 PM (UTC)
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I didn't even mentioned Lui Kang. Ya I'm putting money on him just being severly wounded and not dead. What's more interesting? A Burn victim, former hero driven to madness by an old man who claims to see the future. Him wanting to win things on his own terms without Raidens BS. More ruthless yes, but by no means siding with nether realm/ out world.

Or Zombie Kang?
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T-rex
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06/05/2014 12:08 AM (UTC)
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Noobsmoke92 Wrote:
Whatever they do with these undead heroes,I want the story to make it like each of them needs to be rescued separately,because they are in different places and doing Quan Chi's bidding. If they are rescued by Raiden at the same time,it would be very lame,because it kills very interesting opportunity to enrich the stories for the rest of MKX cast.

Well, the crossing timelines thing will give them an opportunity to bring back everyone, but yeah, there really needs to be a buildup to that sort of thing. Narrative logic dictates that the heroes will obviously need to confront Shinnok at some point, so I imagine the whole timeline happening will be tied to him somehow.

Noobsmoke92 Wrote:

For example,I want Sub-Zero to be rescued by Sareena and/or Scorpion. Sareena just wants to get revenge at Quan Chi and Shinnok after MK Mythologies. Plus, she met Bi-Han all those years ago,and knowing that Sub-Zero once defeated both of her masters,she believes that with Kuai Liang restored she would have better chance to end enemies. Scorpion,though,might want to help her,because he wants Quan Chi dead as well after learning the truth,but he would need Cryomancer's help in defeating the sorcerer because he is too powerful now to take on alone,therefore somehow making MK9 Subbie ending a reality. Of course,at first,Scorpion would be disgusted with the idea of fighting alongside Lin Kuei,but will eventually be persuaded by either Sareena or Raiden to get Subbie back. You see what I did there and how many characters benefitted just by this subplot? I want something along these lines.

This was pretty much my train of thought too.

It's important to understand that Earthrealm fighters are at an astronomical disadvantage. As it stands, they have no fucking chance. The only way they could win is if Shinnok's forces start crumbling from the inside somehow. There has to be a character on the other side who turns heel somehow and sabotages the entire operation. A ticking timebomb.

I can think of three people who would fit into that role perfectly - Sareena, Scorpion and Smoke. They are the key to all of this.

It just so happens that all three of them are tied to Sub-Zero. He is young and inexperienced in the new timeline, but at this point I think we should all be aware of his potential. When he put the Shredder armor on, he basically became a freaking demigod. If he finds a way to once again tap into his Cryomancer essence somehow, he could pretty much turn the tide of battle around.

I was thinking maybe Sareena would be trying to sneak him out of Netherrealm to Outworld so that they could look for the tomb of his ancestors together. I know that you can't really put a magical armor on a cyborg and expect it to work, but there might be another way. Again, if he somehow taps into the source of his powers and embraces it, becoming some kind of an ice elemental in the process, it might even be possible to handwave his cyberization away.

Noobsmoke92 Wrote:

Of course,rescuing Stryker, Kabal and especially Jax should be Sonya and Johnny's mission,since Jax is Sonya's CO and Kabal is former Black Dragon,so maybe Kano would be involved somehow? Like Quan Chi approached Kano,now VERY rich and powerful from the trades he made in MK9 (i liked kinda his ending,so maybe that would be somehow true too?), to be their enforcer on Earth? And as an insurance,he would order Jax,Kabal and Stryker to protect Kano from Special Forces while he is wreaking havoc on SF base with his heavily armed thugs? It would be up to Sonya and Johnny Cage to free them... Boom,another subplot.

Well, obviously Johnny and Sonya can't revive them, but I could see them trying to confront them, restrain them somehow and get them out from under Shinnok's control.

Nice going, kid. smile You sound like you're going places.

Noobsmoke92 Wrote:

Mileena turning good

Not sure about this one, though. As much as they messed with her backstory, the whole "deliciously crazy whore with the mind of a child" thing they had going with Mileena in MK9 was one of the most enjoyable parts of that game. NRS is obviously having a lot of fun with her being this way, so I'm not sure they'd make her into a good guy, not even a reluctant one. Maybe this could've worked with OT Mileena, who has centuries worth of craving Kahn's acceptance and growing to hate and envy her sister, but not with this one.


Y'know, now that I think about, Havik should've definitely taken notice of her by now... She's prime Khaosrealm material.
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SmashK
06/05/2014 12:20 AM (UTC)
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I don't think we'll see playable, zombified versions of the dead characters. Seems like too easy of a scapegoat.

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T-rex
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06/05/2014 12:22 AM (UTC)
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That's literally the first thing I thought of when they said "alternate versions".
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stinky_thc_cloud
06/05/2014 12:29 AM (UTC)
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Just wanted to say that Enera is NOT cannon. Nor is Ermac turning into Sindels husband, neither is Nightwolfs lycanthropic abilities. Arcade endings are just for fun now that we have a story mode. Johnny cage isn't going to be an order realm fighter and Lui Kang isn't going to become a vengeful god. If any of this stuff is going to happen they should hire new writers. (I kinda dug the nightwolf thing in all honestly lol but I'm a huge werewolf nerd, so I'm bias)
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liamx2000
06/05/2014 10:31 AM (UTC)
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Well I want Kitana And jades souls to be saved But I also wouldn't mind playing them as evil.
so my list...............

returning dead characters ( because we all know you never truly die in the world of MK ) :
Kitana - evil
Jade - evil
Nightwolf - evil
Smoke - evil

Characters that haven't been playable yet But Id like to see.
Li-Mei
Tanya
Kai
Reiko
Frost
Fujin
Ashrah
Sareena
Jarek
Chameleon -DLC

Returning characters that should just be there:
Mileena
Baraka
Ermac
Noob Saibot
Sonya
Johnny cage
Rayden
Rain
Reptile
Skarlet
Kenshi
Sektor
Cyrax

I just hope I get my 3 girls Kitana , Jade and Mileena. if you see this message Ed Boon do not cut out Kitana or Jade or Mileena !! or make them DLC !! lol
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TEAMTakaGo
06/05/2014 04:39 PM (UTC)
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liamx2000 Wrote:

I just hope I get my 3 girls Kitana , Jade and Mileena. if you see this message Ed Boon do not cut out Kitana or Jade or Mileena !! or make them DLC !! lol


Mileena will most definitely make a return. Uou wont have to worry about that.

Im not sure how I feel about the killed off characters returning. I guess im fine with it as long as they arent replacong new characters (well other mk characters) that could be in the game.
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