Homo/Bi are stupid and I don't want it near my game in anyway possible. Want those shitty stuff , pick up a Bioware title.

I am all for straight relationships but not for these new humanity deforming relationships.
How did the bi/homo got so popular in the western society so fast in the last 15 years ?

Whoa, I smell a homophobe... and it stinks.

Oh look, some stupid homophobe. It's so amazing how mere attraction to the same sex results in so many laughable issues. You are an idiot, ermasco, and I love to take a dump on your moronic homophobia.

I could care less which side of the plate you bat on, but romance in MK is something that needs to stay limited. We only get a few hours per game to explore the story, and I personally don't want to waste that time with Liu chasing Kitana's skirt or Stryker chasing Rain's or even Jade and Kitana's secret love affair.

And I smell Homophillia and it stinks even more IMO. And I am just following your mentality.

And I am actually making fun at your so laughable homophilic attitude. So I am an idiot for being against Homophilia ? And you are so offended by me saying my opinion on the matter. I smell weak debate , I smell someone that is so hated in his real life and can't make a stand out of the forums.

Oh, I'm feeling so insulted. Not.

Homophilia? Ha, yet another fool that can't tell the difference between homosexuality and pedophilia.

It is everyone's right to give his opinion on certain "less present" sexual orientations, and so is ErmaSco's.

What should not be permitted, though is that a person comes up hurling demeaning, self-righteous comments at those whom he/she deems different and thus inferior. And it's graver yet if the "critic" turns out to be of lacking erudition.

Please, homophobes are the ones who hate a certain type of people for being different. They hate gays and bisexuals, and aren't too fond of any heterosexuals who do not share their stupid prejudices. I do not owe these inferior lifeforms any respect.

You can smell something other than your own bullshit? Color me amazed.
"Making fun at"
It's "making fun of" that you're supposed to say, but to expect an homophobe to sound coherant is probably setting my expectations way too high.
About your last comments, about me being hated and all that silliness, sounds like you're confusing me with yourself, honey.

Christ, who gives a shit?
Intentionally making someone gay/bi/whatever brings nothing to any aspect of the game and even suggesting it is void of all intelligence.
Wanting a character to have a particular sexual orientation for the sake of it just proves you're laughably pretentious and attention seeking, not to mention it's simply positive discrimination.
It's equivalent to wanting a black guy or a transvestite just 'cause. Just highlights your sheer stupidity on so many levels and I am dumbfounded anyone with a brain actually entertained your idea.
Also, no one is a homophobe for not wanting it any more than someone is for wanting it. Like I said, it's highly pretentious, positive discrimination at it's finest.

I don't even know where to begin.

Ok first saying that having a character be gay is void of intelligence doesn't make any sense what so ever. You do realize gay people exist right? Just like black people and Chinese people exist and you know what, they are represented in the game. And there are a large number of gay MK fans, so it isn't crazy to think maybe they would like a gay character to represent them is it?

Also a few months ago statueofliberty came up with a great story idea that if Smoke was in fact gay than the automation process could be seen as society's repression of homosexuals. That is a good story, and I don't think is void of intellect at all.

Second to say someone is pretentious for wanting a gay character is simply insulting. As I said there are a large number of gay MK fans out there. All they would like is a character who represents them in the roster. If Mortal Kombat had a large number of Indian fans, as in the country, and they wanted an Indian character in the game would you call them pretentious?

Thirdly gays, as much as you would like to deny it, are a large group in society. So the comparison to a black transvestite is completely off base. I'm sure there are some black transvestites out there and some possibly play MK but I think they can understand that black transvestites aren't exactly considered a major group. The example is too specific of an idea to use as a counter. You might as well say that we want a 300 lbs woman with one leg from Iowa. I'm sure they exist but that idea does not accurately represent an entire group of people which is what is going on here.

Is it really that crazy to think that a large part of the Mortal Kombat fanbase is gay and would like a character to be? I don't think so.

I can tell you just don't like gays and that's the reason why you don't want them in the game, and you are entitled to your opinion, but please don't come into a thread like this and try to disguise your anti-gay beliefs with a "logical" argument. Thank you.

If you cannot keep your posts civil, then DO NOT post. Keep the topic at hand on track or the thread will be closed.

Only warning.

IDK, just writing "BTW s/he's gay" in the bio seems wrong to me. So would writing "BTW, s/he's straight." There's a rule in writing "Show, don't tell"

And as far as that goes, there's never been a canon romance introduced in the games (Kitana x Liu Kang AND Sonya x Johnny Cage both came from the films) and there's a reason for that: Where would it fit? Where would they have the time to squeeze in a random "Oh, btw these two are fucking now" and how would they make it relevant to the plot?

And no if Smoke was in fact gay than the automation process could be seen as society's repression of homosexuals. is not a 'good story'. It's a half-decent metaphor until it's put under scrutiny (unless all four of the intended automatons bat for the other team the metaphor falls apart) but a metaphor =/= a story.

Anyways, that's my 2 cents. Accuse me of being a homophobe all you want, because you'd be pretty dead wrong.

We have story modes with fully animated and voice acted cutscenes now. Technically, we've had them for a while. Even Mythologies, which was over 10 years ago, had Bi-Han and Sareena making goo-goo eyes at each other while the most obvious, cheesy romance music I've ever heard on a soundtrack played, before she was shot in the back to make it seem tragic.
That's why MK9 was able to show how Johnny/Sonya and Liu/Kitana meet and form their respective relationships. Because they had motion and dialogue to do it with.
Though technically, in Liu and Kitana's case, there was already a hint of something between them in his MK3 ending, a marriage proposal in his MK4 ending, and numerous mentions in Deadly Alliance of her feelings for him and regret after he died.
That said, I don't think the fanbase is mature enough yet for a gay male character in an MK game. There's just too much prejudice and stereotyping and inappropriateness.

Okay, everybody chill out, that goes especially for ErmaSco and DG1OA. Everybody has their right to an opinion, regardless of whether or not you agree with it, and if you cannot keep it civil or respectful, then don't bother posting. As shaggy pointed out, acting elitist regardless of your orientation or your belief just makes you look like an ass.
With that being said, I HATE bringing romance into the series. It's not about my being for/against sexuality, but it focuses more on how much I just hate love stories. They are never done well in any story that isn't centered around the specific romance, and I don't believe MK can be the exception to that. The thing is, the characters are running around trying to survive in a war. Romance be damned at that point, when it comes to saving yourself, or another's skin, the last thing on their mind should be if their allies or opponents would look hot coming out of a shower or whatever. If they ever did make a game/film/show based on the characters outside of Kombat, then sure, let there be some side stories involving some romance, but when it comes to showing us things that are strongly influenced by the story, I prefer going back to a nice quotation from MK1...
The combatants respect each other as warriors, no matter what degree of hatred they have for one another
...a code of honor.
With that said, let them be warriors first, survivors second, victors third, and lovers last.
And though I won't quote your initial post, DG1OA, I find that the characters you state as being "uncertain" is a little short; there should be at least 60 people on that list, especially if you're going to include Baraka when his alliance with Mileena that would've had them become king and queen of Outworld is the closest thing to a romance story in the entire canon, and you're still saying that he might like guys when there's more proof of the contrary (at least it's more than the proof you presented of the contrary).
Also, Johnny Cage was married to a woman, and as Razor mentioned, Kitana and Liu Kang seem to have become somewhat of a canon coupling.

To be honest, I look at that scene, and see nothing having to do with romance... The music doesn't sound romantic, the characters have no visual chemistry, and based on the lines they say, it sounds more like the only reason she saved him is because she thinks Sub-Zero can help her escape the Netherrealm. I never understood how anyone can look at that as romantic, and then have the nerve to pair her with Kuai Liang instead of Noob Saibot. But that's just me...
Oh yeah, once again for ErmaSco and DG1OA, please do not double post. If you make a post and want to quote someone else from another post, just click the reply button, press the quote button, copy it, then go back to your initial post, and edit the quote in there. It saves me a lot of trouble for editing and deleting posts...

I'm not saying the scene IS romantic. I'm saying they kind of WANTED it to be, though, and couldn't really achieve that because they didn't have the time or the skill.

There's nothing you can do when characters speak like three lines to each other and one of them dies right after, but between those 4 soft, twinkling notes that play when they look up at each other from the pit they just knocked Quan Chi into, that are the poorest, cheesiest attempt to express attraction via an audio cue I've ever heard, and the way he catches her in her arms when she gets shot, it's clear Tobias wanted to have SOME sort of "tragic romance" in his story to add depth to the narrative, that he just didn't have the time to script and film with any kind of actual substance, so instead we get a sort of "Kirk and the hot alien chick of the week in an episode of Star Trek" thing, but without the part where Shatner gets to kiss her.

A common element of action stories is people forging closer bonds with one another or expressing their emotions more passionately during extreme stress and danger. In short, when you could die tomorrow you tend to live today to the fullest.

And not every MK game takes place during a brief period of time or is set during a war.

Deadly Alliance, for example, is sort of a "road movie". Most of the plot revolves around the characters taking a long journey from Earthrealm across vast distances of Outworld to reach the Deadly Alliance's stronghold, splitting up at times, getting back together, meeting allies or enemies, going off to train or bury the supposedly-dead...only at the very end for most of the heroes to FINALLY arrive at the enemies' castle and have an extremely brief battle.

Deception's main plot is much the same, too. And then there's it's B-Plot, Konquest Mode, which takes place over many decades and tells a man's whole life story. In fact, it's actually a little surprising looking back that Shujinko never met any female allies he got close to, but I guess he was too monk-like (or perhaps the better phrase would be "too childlike"), there were too few female characters in Konquest mode, and his mission requiring so much travel would've prevented it. Though they certainly could've invented some sort of rival treasure hunter or something for him to constantly run into and flirt with...if they'd put more effort and depth into said Konquest mode's actual PLOT instead of it being just an excuse to run around a giant map and have random fights. I suppose that's one of the reasons nobody likes Shujinko. He wasn't a character, he was just a plot device. He has no personality except "Yes Damashi, I will do as you ask."

As a big believer in the storytelling potential of the MK universe (I've always believed it was good enough to be turned into an RPG and instead has languished in a sort of unfinished, un-fleshed-out state since its creation because it was unlucky enough to be attached to a shallow fighting game instead), I guess what I would say is that the characters should be 3-dimensional PEOPLE first, with a large breadth of feelings and motivations, and anything else like "warriors" or "survivors" second.

Regardless of your feelings toward romance in the series, good stories have good characters, and good characters have emotions behind what they are doing. Bad characters fight to save the world and nothing more, just like bad villains want to destroy it/conquer it for no reason. Characters with any sort of depth whatsoever have some emotional investment beyond just 'we have to do this because Shao Kahn is bad'. Since the series has introduced a story mode, they're obviously trying to make the story have more depth and improve it in general. One of the biggest steps is to make the characters not so hollow and soulless. This can be done in many ways, not just with romance, but that is perhaps the best place to start.

I'm sorry, but it is completely ridiculous to think that war would prevent natural emotion. If anything, life and death situations make all these emotions more powerful. If the writers got their heads out of their asses and stopped trying to be 'awesome', they'd have a good story with good characters and a fan base that didn't bash them regularly for it. For example: Sindel has an awesome moment of power and kills nearly everyone. She's so awesome, but that scene is almost universally hated across this forum. Mileena was made more awesome by having bigger boobs, less personality, and less clothing, yet she has received little more than ridicule for it. Meanwhile fans come up with countless ideas for a deeper story for her because that is what they would rather see. More story, less awesome.

On the subject of a gay character, I'd be content with a case of 'hide your gays', because any more than that would just bring unnecessary hatred out of the childish assholes that make up a large part of the MK community.

About your last paragraph, that's exactly why there should be gay males in the series. Homophobes must never ever be catered to. They are stupid, lower lifeforms, and their prejudices are completely pointless and invalid. Their views must be challenged at all times.

One last thing I wanted to add is the fact that neither Sub-Zeros' sexual orientations (or lack of any) have been revealed so far, making both of them potential homosexuals.

That kind of goes back to what I said about how romance scenes are never done well unless the story that is centered around it. The thing is, why did John Tobias try to shoe-horn some love in there when it made no sense no matter how one looks at the scene and the moments leading up to it? Aside from not killing her, which is inconsequential for a Demon in the Netherrealm anyway, why should there be any romance involved? I guess it does add more meat to Sareena and Sub-Zero, but he could've not killed her for any number of reasons, and Sareena could've helped him for any number of reasons as well, if not just to return the favour and/or want to leave Hell.

Very true, yes, but I don't get that impression from the characters, even in the present story mode. Sure, there are a couple of throw-backs to the films, but I can get strong friendships forming, not love. Maybe lust, sure, that's all over Johnny Cage and possibly Sonya, but I can't call that romance.

Yes, you do bring up some great points about how the later games make it more of a journey than a full-scale survivor/war story, and with that, the potential for bigger things like romance could blossom, but relationships and sexuality can still be considered a small aspect to a whole character. They can still be 3-D people without delving into their sex lives. It makes the ones that do have those kinds of back-and-forth, slightly nodded as romantic relationships (Baraka/Mileena [RIP], Johnny Cage/Sonya Blade, Liu Kang/Kitana) that much more significant.

I dunno, I think they did a very good job of showing how Liu and Kitana's feelings for each other started to develop in MK9's story mode. Or at least...they would've been good scenes if they had been told in a universe where Raiden didn't fuck up time and get them both killed, and we could actually see it grow into more.

Beyond that, though, you're right, no one who's written an MK game has ever done a proper job at a love story. But just because the current writers are incapable of sucking at it doesn't mean it can't be done by anyone, or shouldn't be tried.
Lust, love, infatuation, affection, and romance are one of the most major parts of the human experience. A good story never leaves that angle out entirely.

Romance as the BEST way to start? The majority of characters had some pretty good reasons for wanting to fight beyond "surviving" and "Shao Kahn's bad" and not all of them have to be that complicated to do it right, but the ones that have the best reasons do it pretty well. There are plenty that wound up downgraded in this new game, despite having a story mode, like Kuai Liang who outright says he's there to avenge Bi-Han's killer, not even assassinate Shang Tsung anymore, Kung Lao just to one-up Liu Kang as the best monk, Reptile because he's a henchman, Mileena because she was made to serve Kahn, Baraka because he's loyal to Kahn, Sheeva because she's loyal to Kahn, Liu Kang because Raiden told him to do it... These characters had plenty of other reasons in the initial canon, and you're going to tell me that since they introduced story mode, they're adding MORE depth? If anything, the story's become even more shallow and needs to be fixed like you would not believe.
To play Devil's Advocate, at least they made Cyrax out to be against automation instead of a volunteer like he was initially... And still had him become a soulless assassin anyway. They didn't give him more depth, they just recycled Smoke's story and gave it to Cyrax. There's depth for you, right?

You can challenge their views without demonizing them either. I'd much prefer you take a higher road and not stoop to insults, regardless of whether or not you guys share beliefs. It just invalidates your arguments.

In regards to "hint of something between them in his MK3 ending:

"Then, before the portal closes, Liu Kang is greeted by Princess Kitana and thanked for saving Earth and the Outworld."

Really?

As for MK4, it came out 2 years after the first film, so yeah.

In regards to MK9, do you think those scenes would have been any good if we hadn't already had over a decade of "KxLK/SxJC" prior to it? Because the connections seemed pretty weak to me. Sonya didn't seem at all interested in Johnny, Johnny seemed to be more about getting into Sonya's pants than anything, and while I can actually understand Kitana's being enamored with Liu after he spared her life, Liu's whole falling for Kitana arc was pretty much absent. There was no why about his liking her, he just did. "Oh look, another person trying to kill, except this one's a woman! I shall imprint on her like a chick to a mother bird."

Yes, really.

First, in MK2, Kitana's story revolves around her meeting in secret with "one of the Earth warriors" to feed them intel and help them win the tournament, as her first big act of rebellion against her fake-father. Gee, I wonder who she met with. Could it be the champion of Mortal Kombat, the guy with the best chance of beating Kahn?

Then she shows up in his MK3 bio. And remember that in the original MK3, before Ultimate, Kitana was not a playable character. She was not seen anywhere in the whole game except Liu Kang's ending (Sindel's ending also mentions that she's her daughter, but the adult version of Kitana does not actually show up to do anything in it.) And Liu's wasn't the only ending about defeating Kahn and freeing both Earth and Outworld. So why is he the only one who gets thanked by the princess? Could it be maybe because the two of them have a reason to be associated together?

And then, in MK4, she fucking asks him to marry her. People generally don't propose to strangers. You can interpret it as having come out of nowhere, or just being a movie reference if you like, but I believe that interpretation to be mistaken.

MK3 and the MK movie came out in the same year. Boon and Tobias actually had active consultant roles on the film's story. Could it be that maybe, just possibly, Liu x Kitana was Tobias' idea?

Lol, thank you, Razor, for replying to me; had you not done that, I'd have accidentally double posted myself.

Well, TheAdder's got a pretty strong point about the Liu Kang/Kitana bit that happens. It kind of makes me think of the whole Sub-Zero/Sareena scene, where based on a very superficial reason (he doesn't kill her), something should/does blossom.
MK3 and 4 had some better reasons for why a coupling would be likely to happen, like Kitana seeing Liu Kang as a leader of moral reason, someone who stands up to the odds and saved her realm. Even the angle about her meeting with an Earthrealm warrior to feed him intel, I never thought of putting Liu Kang there, but that is pretty good. But what we saw in MK '11 doesn't seem realistic to me, just a random love plot thrown into an action story.
As for your last bit there, that's definitely something we'll have to agree to disagree on, because I don't believe that all good stories have those angles, or should if they aren't called for. I think on that point, it comes down to how we each differently interpret the MK characters, and most good stories.

I wasn't discussing whose idea it was, I wouldn't doubt it was.

My point was about where it was introduced.

Which probably seems like semantics to you, but it's not. It's about the same thing my point about our acceptance of the scenes in MK9 is. We accept it because we've already had it introduced and played out to us in an alternate media.

I'm not saying it's a reference, I'm saying they couldn't find a way to properly fit it into the game and so introduced it elsewhere so they wouldn't have to.

And in MK9 the fact that it's been around for over a decade made it easier for us to swallow despite the paper thin justification in game.
This all, ultimately comes back to my first point about this whole relationship thing: Where would it fit? If we're using MK9's story mode as an example then we have evidence that they either will not, or can not, develop a relationship given the time that they have, relying on previously established elements. And if they can't properly develop a romantic relationship then they should not introduce new romantic relationships.
Nice to be butting heads again, btw, Razor.