Dude, paragraphs man! Make yourself a new rule. At the end of five lines, make a new paragraph. I'll definitely read what you wrote, but no one likes to come into a thread, see that post is super long, and THEN see that the paragraphs are like 18 lines long. Just giving some friendly (I swear), unsolicited advice.

I'll post my thoughts on your ideas in a bit.

Alright, my jerk comment aside... I REALLY think that you have some great ideas here and I also agree with alot of them as well:


Methmaker wrote:

"Costumes:

I'd like to see costumes, both primary and alternate, have more than visual appeal. My proposal would be to have different skillsets accentuated by different costumes. A character wearing a lot of armor would be slower, have less health depletion while blocking, and perhaps more power. If the same character had an alternate costume that was not so heavily armored, then the character would be fleeter although at a disadvantage when it comes to blocking. Different accessories, such as gauntlets or metal gloves, could increase a character's punching power, and heavy boots could do the same for kicks. Masks/helmets could slightly decrease the damage on blows to the face. Doing this would increase the versatility of each character and lead to choosing costumes based on personal playing styles, and, perhaps, their opponents. This would also lead away from character stereotyping--a single kombatant, depending on his/her costume, could be a power or a speed player at different times. Further development of this could be the use of certain moves limited to a certain costume, based on its design."

Wow, that's actually a really cool idea. I don't know how difficult it would be for the MK team to create essentially two different characters for one character, or how hard it would be to change the timing of attacks and damage etc, but if they could do that and do it well and keep the game balanced in terms of special moves etc, I'd be all for it!


Methmaker wrote:
"Different paths/alternate endings:
To enhance replay value, add to general speculation, etc, the addition of multiple endings could be beneficial. There are a few different ideas that may be worth following through on. The simplest would to have a 'light' and 'dark' ending, depending on if a character did or did not use fatalities on every defeated opponent. If the character didn't, the 'light' ending wouldn't necessarily be light in mood but would just be the standard ending. But if the character did use fatalities on everybody, an alternate ending could be used which could either insinuate 'evil' characters as going mad with bloodthirst, or 'good' characters venturing towards the dark side. This is somewhat facile, but it would give a little more incentive of playing the game through multiple times with each character. Other ideas to this effect would be if fatalities were performed on rivals or those whose stories/histories intertwine with the kombatant. Different endings could come about if you perform fatalities on allies or enemies. The benefits would be multiple: more eye candy, endings tailored on choices taken, further speculation on the next MK installment. Something I'd like to see would be a 'secret' ending, one that would be difficult to unlock, with an ending that shows only if the boss was beaten flawlessly in the hardest difficulty, which would really pay back the player for the time spent mastering a character."

I like the idea you're suggesting as opposed to how they did the endings previously. I think that this is a definite step up. My wish though is that they did away with all of the "what if" endings and just gave us the REAL endings of what happens in the tournament. Yes, there would have to be a LOT of cliffhangers, but still...

We already know that only one character will win the tournament, what we won't know is what happens to alot of the characters. Will they be captured? Will they be killed off? Will they be betrayed? Will they get revenge? What will draw them in for the next game? Or maybe their plot gets resolved?

Just once, I'd like to play through story mode with a character and after three battles... oh, no... That character did a fatality on me. And then I get to see him/her cross over into the netherealm and then... but wait, his story is just beginning. Stuff like that, throw me some curveballs, ya know!?



Methmaker wrote:

"Design/levels/story: a return to darkness
Having played Mk since the original game, I've somewhat disliked the visuals of the past few games, especially in terms of character designs. Hulking men and extremely voluptuous women give the game something of a caracatured look--while stylization isn't necessarily bad, the excessive musculature of the average male kombatant also takes away from the sight of the boss and sub-bosses, whose larger sizes don't seem as large anymore. By streamlining the characters, at least to around MK4 standards, I think that the drama of the game can work itself out more sucessfully. Fighters should each have a unique body type/musculature and even height to a degree. More compact characters will look more vulnerable when it comes time to boss or sub-boss levels. Monsters will look more monstrous when contrasted with less caracatured fighters.

What I like about Mortal Kombat as opposed to other fighters is its darkness, mysteriousness, black humor, and sheer excess. Ideally, for me, the entire game should be filled with a sense of unease. I'd like to see a shift in story, a shakeup that would announce that something is seriously in peril in the MK universe, perhaps focusing on the outworld or the netherworld, areas filled with dark alien design that would appear to be something out of nightmares. Longtime fans should be given a treat, shown new views of realms, opening up more of the MK universe visually and in story, perhaps with a couple throwbacks. I'd like to see a return of "The Portal", perhaps with one of the hooded figures being unlockable or fightable. The storyline should be tighter, darker, more desperate. Generally darker lighting will make special, supernatural moves a much more dramatic look. A "living" level, in which the fighters seem to be inside some kind of creature, would be interesting, and the possibilities of stage fatalities in such a level intriguing (a character pulling out a bone and stabbing the other character/the losing kombatant being chewed to death/dissolved in bile). Levels should be designed both to maximize tension, intrigue, and to elaborate visually on some of the settings of the Mk universe and storyline. More interaction with the surroundings should be sought after to shake up gameplay without resolving in cheapened tactics and gameplay."

Now here, you and I definitely agree on a lot. The ideas of "darkness, mystery" etc. That's the type of stuff that really got me into MK, more so than fatalities and blood, I always dug those statements like "it is assumed that he traveled into Outworld alone." You read something like that and you're like "wait, did he bring someone with? Was he followed? Tell me more!"

Stuff like that made me want to find out what happened next. I wanted to solve those mysteries. The game was dark and foreboding and even a little creepy and no other game was like that back in 16 bit era. There was a huge difference between falling down a hole in Castlevania and getting your throat slit by scorpions spear.

But yeah, I like the idea of focusing on the Netherworld or something like that. Something where hell is attempting to swallow Earth. Give me a plot that I can care about again, but make the forces sinister, not giant, rolling lava monsters or whatever Blaze was by the time Armageddon came around.


Methmaker wrote:

"General fighting engine.
Without elaborating much, since I expect the next installment's engine to already be somewhat in place, I'd like to see a more fluid, deeper engine used than the past MK games. Streamlining the characters would also make them appear to be faster (the same distance traveled in the same time while taking up less space just looks faster). Moves, for me, ideally would flow into each other, resulting in a more choreographed look. Multiple parry types could be used to try to exact one's strategy--some might give space between the characters, allowing for them to regroup, some might keep the combat close-range, setting the tone for more aggressive gameplay.

Strikes could cause differing damages depending on where they land and when in the striking animation they hit, with the ideal strike taking place in the middle of the animation, not at full extension and not underextended. Going along with this, the reaction of the person/thing struck could be different depending on where in the animation he/she/it is struck. And if a character is struck while charging, more damage might be taken off (like running into a punch would).

I'd also like to see more air and ground moves, perhaps even to the extent of having some characters having more air-based moves and some having more on-the-ground based ones. Instead of having single special moves that involve the air--say, Liu Kang's bicycle kick, a move can be done that starts Liu Kang in an air animation, propelling forward, and a limited moveset but with flowing animations that lets the player choose what's to be done whilst in the air (pedal punches/kicks each with their drawbacks, throws if another character is jumping). It adds variety, choice, tactic.

More imaginative styles. Personally, I've always loved the odder characters, whether it be Quan Chi in MK4 or Voldo in the Soul Calibur series, characters whose styles are jarring, strange, but effective. While the inclusion of fighting styles in the recent Mk games has been interesting and even somewhat informative, I'd like to see more alien/created styles to more fully unleash a character's personality. While I'd like to see more animations flow smoothly into each other, I'd also like there to be moves that abruptly alter the flow. If a character has a mostly outlandish style and moves, I'd like to see a handful of moves that are direct, point a to point b in the fastest time, in order to keep opponents guessing."

I like the ideas on using distance in determining attack damage, but I really like the idea of more imaginative styles. I'm not saying that every character needs the equivilant of a Voldo style crab walk, but each character should have their own distinctive move set and/or weapon and they should all be interesting (ie fun) to use.

In the new Wachowski bros film (I think it's called Ninja Assassin), there's a character that has a long whip with what appears to be a metal, tooth-like blade on the end. I saw it and it immediately reminded me of Scorpions spear. So here's a crazy idea, why couldn't Scorpion use his harpoon spear as a weapon?

It could be a whip, and have a ton of whip related moves, things that pull the character off of their feet, closer, to the side, or stun moves or pull Scorpion closer to them. Or maybe he lets the whip loose in his hands and uses the spear part in close quarters combat. Stabs, jabs, wrapping the whip around the character, jumping over them to get behind them.

Not every character has to fight with a sword, ya know! Although if Scorpion had his sword, I'd love for it to be on fire like in the promos. Maybe he could breathe fire off of the sword, stab the ground and make a path of fire toward the enemy? He could have a whole list of special moves that are simply sword-drawn related.

Again, just trying to think outside the box here, but the ball and chain that Go Go uses in Kill Bill Vol 1? Trifold staffs? Spinner knives? Though for me, I'd want to see these types of weapons being used as sort of a second style for some characters. A second set of special moves, if you will.

Those would be balanced by characters that have more combos (simple combos that are easy to perform but look cool, I'm talking like....B, B, B, B here) and way more special moves.

To me, the best thing that MK can do in the future is greatly simplify their combo system so you can tap the same button a few times and do something cool. You start a combo with some special moves or finish it off with some special moves. Add in a univeral throw button (again, some characters will have more than others) and a universal counter button.

If we really wanted to get crazy, I'd even say a universal dodge/escape button, which would replace blocking altogether. It would completely eliminate turtling and it would make games look a LOT more like a martial arts movie, where a punch or kick is either deflected or dodged at the moment it's thrown.


Lastly, Methmaker wrote:
"-----notes
I've had an on-again off-again love affair with this series since I was 11 years old and watched with awe as my uncle ripped someone's head off with Sub-Zero (I didn't know that could be done in video games--it was like losing my virginity in a way, losing a bit of innocence). If I was involved in its production I'd really want to take it in different directions, but I hope that Boon & co. mainly stick to their own visions, not taking too much in fan responses. Do what you want to do and do it well. By trying to please everybody you're less likely to please anybody. Include what characters you want to include solely on the merits you see in them, not in what fans think would be 'cool' (which fairly often comes off as retarded and backwards-looking). I'm not the fan of the series I used to be, but I'm still curious to see what will happen next, what breakthroughs and setbacks the next MK will establish."

Wow, same here. I was 12 when I first saw MK1. In fact, I grew up in Chicago, so I got to play alot of the MK games when they were being beta tested in area arcades. I remember seeing Noob on the character select screen for MK4.

I almost got kicked out of my high school bowling class because the alley had an arcade and I'd always sneak out of class to play Mk4 to see what had been added or taken out since the last time I had been there.

I remember how awesome it was to see MK2 in an arcade for the first time. I was at these batting cages and I begged my coach to let me play just a little bit longer. I remember using Jax, fighting Kitana in the Dead pool and wondering how video game graphics could ever possibly get any better.

I remember being in my friend Jim's room, and I was using Scorpion and he was using Sub Zero in MK1 and I remember him saying "wanna see something cool?" and he then ripped my player's head off. I had seen the game in arcades, and I had played it, but I somehow had never seen a fatality. I mean yeah, I knew they existed. I saw a censored picture of a few of them in Gamepro magazine... but this. I had never seen anything like this before. The amazing graphics and everything just seemed so realistic.

But yeah, I wouldn't say that my view of MK has been up again/down again. It's more frustration for me now.

Sure, I accept what's given to me. I like to see each new iteration and what they're trying to do well and try really hard not to be let down over what they simply didn't need to add or didn't do well enough.

There's a great subject matter and I know that there's a great series still left underneath the gimmicks like motor kombat and those crappy, needlessly convoluted dial-a-combos that challenge even the hardest of hardcore MK fans to like the games.

At the same time, I'm also thankful for the fact that my favorite series, the one that I grew up playing, the one that I really hate to admit that I wrote my first novel about (yeah, unpublished of course, but hey, 200 pages as a 13 year old? Not too shabby!) is still alive and kicking today.

There's no Weaponlord forum that I know of and you don't hear a big groundswell for another Eternal Champions. Same goes for Bloodstorm, Fighters Destiny, Primal Rage and a whole slew of games from that generation. But my favorite game, the one that made me love writing and really got me into video games etc, has somehow managed to stand the test of time.

It may have it's share of drawbacks and I'm sure that I'll no doubt be somewhat disappointed that they didn't do this or that with the next game (please Ed, no more versus games!!) but that's all a part of being a fan. Will they make me forget MK1 or MK2? Never. Those games are my all time favorites and no MK game will ever measure up to them.

Still, I'd really like to see the MK team try, and I wish them nothing but the best in attempting to bring that magic from the past into modern gaming. A tough challenge for sure, but I certainly wish them all the luck in the world!

Nothing against any ideas here but there is already a stickied thread for general future games stuff like this.

http://www.mortalkombatonline.com/content/forum/showmessage.cds?id=98689&page;=12

Of course, but you'll still see threads like this pop up here and there. I liked his ideas, so I figured why not respond? Besides, the idea of having a stickied thread for general ideas about the future of MK kinda seems strange for a forum entitled "Future MK Games Discussion" don't you think?

I'm definitely not questioning the way the mods run things around here, not at all. But I think that when someone has their own ideas about the next MK game, they should be able to post them in a new topic as a way of saying "here are some of my ideas, what do you think?"

Because to be honest, I've never read the stickied thread. Stickied threads are always intimidating to me. Too many pages and too easy to want to skip ahead.

I get why you posted your comment, and maybe this thread gets moved, who knows, but to me, it seems like a better idea to have more threads posted where people talk about what they'd like to see in Future MK Games, not less.

I think this avenue is being traveled already, and to some extent, has been done before. So I'd disagree, and want not to see this sort of thing come into a future MK. Soul Calibur is proving how effective this sort of mechanism is, or isn't. They've really always been one of the franchises who has employed such a thinking. Along with the other technical fighters out there, of course. So I'd encourage MK to go another direction with their costume experimentation if they do so at all.

- Personally, I liked how they handled costumes so far actually. Proving that a fighting game is a fighting game no matter what effects the costume may have on the character. I think if you're going to win, you're going to win, and that should be that. I don't think the costumes should play much more of a role in the playing experience than that. Which is why I agree with the thinking that was employed in MKvsDC. If they have some memory to waste on something purely aesthetic, then breaking stuff off of the characters is a cool way to waste.

Other than that, something they've done that should really stick around are weapons that are apart of the characters normal move-sets. Scorpion's combo with the axe (UMK3), Nightwolf with his own axe (UMK3), or most recently DeathStroke and his sword or pocket-knife moves (MkvsDc) for example. They're special moves that can, or should be able to be performed stand-alone, but the fact that they're character specific suggests that the developers intentionally created those tools for that specific combo.

If they could keep that element around for future MK games, I'd be quite pleased. It gives more than just an aesthetic quality to the character, and allows players to pick them for subtle, but unique qualities. This quality being there made me play with DeathStroke...so, there ya go.

Beyond that though, I haven't cared much for the power to weight ratio's. I mean of course it has to make sense (i.e. a big character moves slower and all that jazz) , but the damage mechanisms based on clothing and all that? I'll pass.



I pretty much disagree with you on this too. I think a much simpler approach would glean just as much, if not more of a speculative, and overall fulfilling reaction from following the story. I'll admit that alot of the fun of MK's story element is this sort of Easter-egg hunt for the facts kind of approach. To where they seemingly leave plot-holes in the story on purpose and let us fans have the fun with it from there.

The problem with that format though, is that it becomes difficult to find fact at all amidst the mess after a while, and leaves fans wondering whether analysis is even worth it. I think the remedy is to write canonically, through and through. You see, from a firm base of fact, speculation is just as fruitful. Never in history has writing from a fact-based stand-point hindered any stories ability to grow, or go into any direction. So why they've been seemingly creating MK's stories in a way that almost purposely ignores that logic, is beyond logic to me.

From my stand-point, I don't believe anything like a cliff-hanger ending is necessary, or helpful. In fact hurtful, based on the premise of providing good reliable material to the fanbase. Y'know? You don't want to confuse the listener/reader consistently. You'd want to guide and twist through a story. I think that since they develop three and four games per console generation, it would be really wise to write a storyline for those few games, and start over with the following generation of consoles or what have you. There's even the option to continue a storyline across console generations, or completely separate from the previous one that way. Same basic principle goes for game to game canonical writing.

For instance, if we start off with one main storyline that's going to basically guide a series of say...three games for this console generation, and some characters interact with that main storyline while others don't, what's the problem with writing canon material for every single individual involved? Some characters would stick around, some would go off in directions that would take them away from the main storyline....and some would never quite be tied to the main storyline, but they could interact with elements or characters that do, which would justify their appearance (and disappearance) in the story, or in the game.

That way, the basic remedy looks like a sitcom, or a movie trilogy. One season, or trilogy at a time. Notice in those forms, a main cast sticks around. Secondary characters, villains, guest stars, and others permitted.

ER, Seinfeld, Dexter, True Blood, OZ, The Sopranos, and a slew of other fantastic sitcoms are good examples. The Matrix, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Harry Potter, and a slew of other movie series' are excellent examples on that front.

100% Canon Material. Seldom cliffhangers, and "what if" scenarios.



Agreed. Although I think the arena that is inside some sort of creature is a bit weird right now, it seems to fit in it's own way as maybe some part of a dimension or chamber of hell. I say that because it reminds me of a couple of the of the scenarios in God of War. One was inside a dead dragon or something, and the other was inside of Titus I believe. I would toss this idea though, for the sheer implication of being a copy-cat.



Pretty much agree with everything. I'd probably go with a formula similar to this:

- MKvsDC's gameplay engine and set-up as a basic base. That really just means most of the controls, and the 2.5D approach. Keep the jump-kick, needs a legit jump-punch like the early games..ect. But most of the mechanic can stay with tweaks.

- Get rid of alot....not all...but alot of the silly basic moves. For instance, everyone has a jab, but everyone's jab is not a fundamentally different looking jab. Different looking moves should mean different things to the life-bar.

- Get a central fighting theme like movies have. I'd recommend a movie choreographed theme.

- Give characters specifics. Character specific basic//normal behavior during a fight, special moves, weapons if they're a character that has one...ect No-one really, should share any of this stuff. If they must re-use animations (as pretty much all game do as far as I know), subtlety is key.

- Fantasy theme that rules the arenas/environments. I'd recommend something like a Bad Dream // Nightmare theme. Mortal Kombat started off with pseudo-real characters, immersed in fantasy-laden surroundings.

--

I disagree on the air stuff though. Liu Kang (MK2-T), Sindel (MK3-T), or Ermac's telepathy (MKD-A) should be about the extent of aerial combat. You either can fly some kind of way, or you fall down. In other words, Raiden's torpedo = good to go. Bo Rai Cho floating around in mid-air in MKA = terrible mistake.

Far as styles go, I'm a huge fan of giving characters styles that are not stricken whatsoever to a real martial arts style. They should at best be "loosely based in reality" styles. We should be able to point to a real style, and identify with where MK got the basis for a characters fighting style from. I'm pretty much convinced because this is how MK started off.

You had some moves in there that didn't make any sense other than the aesthetic entertainment. But the core of each of the characters styles was loosely identifiable.

Uuum...guess I should post this thing at some point so..