The list:

361⁄2 : Scorpion
69 : Sub-Zero
1 : Guinness

1. Subzero
Obvious.

2. Scorpion
Obvious.

3. Sonya
Yeah, as much as I loathe her, she'll probably be back. If for no other reason than because Boon has a major hard-on for her.

4. Raiden
Obvious.

5. Johnny Cage
I don't know. I can see them throwing him merely because he's "a name." Also, since they finally gave him a story development in Armageddon, I can see them thinking "Well, that's all he needed...he's fixed!" But I don't know. Personally, I think there are much better characters to choose from...even among the sacred cows.

6. Kitana
Yeah, I expect she'll be back. Since she's my favorite character, I probably should be happy about that...but I know if they bring her back, it'll be for the wrong reasons. Because she's "an icon" and because she's popular...and that's it. They'll half-ass her just like they've been half-assing her for past few years.

7. Kung Lao
I can see Kung Lao making it. They could do a LOT worse than keeping him around.

8. Baraka
Kind of see him in the same boat as Johnny Cage. I can see them just throwing him in there...but he seems less of guarantee.

9. Cyrax
Nah. I think if a cyborg makes it through, we'll be seeing Sektor again before Cyrax. Sektor is currently seen as a fresher face and he just got a new storyline started with ties to Sub-Zero and now Sonya.

10. Ermac
Yeah, I'd count on him, too. His return got a very good reception and I suspect the MK team'll try to run with it.

11. Kabal
I can kind of see them keeping Kabal around. However, I think there are other characters they'd put on higher priority.

12. Nightwolf
Strongly doubt it. He's not very popular, very little story relevance, and as far as representing the MK3 era...as you suggested...I think Kabal, Sektor/Cyrax, or even if they bring back Sindel would be better options.

13. Quan Chi
I think they'll keep him around. He's well liked, he's a major player and the storyline and, if for no other reason, to ensure Scorpion still has something to do.

14. Kenshi
I think the MK team is proud of Kenshi's creation...and with good reason, I suppose...so I can see them keeping him around.

15. Shujinko
No. No chance. He defeated Onaga...so his part in the story is completed. He was violently rejected by the fanbase. Too many other characters more deserving. I don't see them bringing him back.

16. Taven
Taven was better received than Shujinko...but not that much. I suppose they might feel he should be kept around because his story places him in an important role that just started...but I don't see him as a top priority.


Other characters:

- Reptile
Love him or hate him, he's a got a fanbase and he's reasonably iconic. I'm not saying I think he SHOULD come back, but I can see the MK team not wanting to let him go.

- Mileena
Mileena's already a fairly popular character and her stock went up pretty fast after Deception. They might decide to hold onto her.

- Noob Saibot
Another popular character, with strong ties to two other very popular & iconic characters in Scorpion & Sub-Zero, and storyline that only just started.

- Shang Tsung
Even though Shang was kind of singled out by Boon when they were making Armageddon...I recall he said something along the lines of "This game may be the end of guys like Shang Tsung"...I can also see them changing their mind and deciding to keep him around for name value if nothing else.

- Sareena
Can't say she WILL come back for sure...but after MK:DA, through Deception, and going into Armageddon she was a highly anticipated character. She has massive story potential with ties to many other characters and she was fairly well received in her semi-debut in Armageddon. They'd be foolish to throw her away. She has too much potential to not come back.


So, I'd expect a returning roster closer to this:

1. Subzero
2. Scorpion
3. Sonya
4. Raiden
5. Reptile
6. Kitana
7. Kung Lao
8. Baraka
9. Sektor
10. Ermac
11. Kabal
12. Mileena
13. Quan Chi
14. Kenshi
15. Noob Saibot
16. Sareena


Meh.

Could be worse, I suppose.

i think their are 2 levels of iconic fighters. some are real popular, some have been in the first game since day 1 or have an important role, but not might be too popular. still both set of fighters are iconic. didnt ed say that it was going to be reboot and no one was coming back except subs and scorp??? anyways

1.sub-iconic
2.scorp-iconic
3.raiden-iconic
4liu kang-hero,iconic
5.sonya-first gril,iconic
6.jax-first black guy, cyborg arms-iconic
7.milleena-like her better than kitana
8.reptile-cool,kinda popular
9.shang tsung-evil guy
10.cyrax-first cyborgs,kinda popular
11.nightwolf-unqiue
12.kabal-unique
13.ermac-cool powers
14.quan chi-shangs rival,interesting
15.rain-cool powers
16noob-unqiue,cool,interesting story
17jade-had to put in more girls!!!!-unque girl fighter

Kabal, really? I mean, I like the guy and all, but he never screamed "definitive" to me. If anything, Deception totally ruined any appeal he might have once had.

Considering how radical MK3, MK4, and Deception were about shaking up the roster, I doubt there are even 8 characters who are guaranteed a place in MK9. I could see the following returning, though even a few of them are iffy. Everyone else is totally up in the air. As much as I personally liked MK3's characters, more than most who have come about since, I don't think we'll be seeing more than one of them return--two tops.

1) Sub-Zero
2) Scorpion
3) Quan-Chi
4) Sonya
5) Kitana and/or Mileena (wouldn't it be nice if only Jade showed up for once?)
6) Raiden (only because of the build up with the Dark Raiden plot. He's been overused in the past [though poorly IMO] and I could see him sitting a game out)
7) Kenshi and/or Ermac (the former for being a modern icon, the latter for plot-based reasons)
8) Noob Saibot (GAG)

I agree with many you all have already posted. I'm not really putting these in any order, aside from the first two. I'm just listing.

1. Scorpion
2. Sub-Zero
3. Reptile
4. Kung Lao (if Liu Kang is still dead, I almost feel like he's necessary, and I'm not complaining about that)
5. Kitana
6. Sonya
7. Raiden
8. Baraka/Mileena
9. Nightwolf
10. Shang Tsung
11. Smoke (either human or cybernetic, though I think his Deception form was perfect. Story wise, to me, his blows Sektor's and Cyrax's out of the water, especially in the MK III era).
12. Quan Chi
13. Kenshi (I think if there's Ermac at this point, there should be Kenshi)
14. Ermac (I think if there's Kenshi at this point, there should be Ermac)
15. Lei Mei
16. Noob Saibot
17. Kabal/Mavado
18. Havik/Hotaru

You know I just reread this, and I think I may have misinterpreted what you were originally asking.

In my opinion, Mortal Kombat's most definitive characters....regardless of whether they should come back or not....are:

- Scorpion
I think this is obvious. One of, if not the break-out character of the entire series, Scorpion is undoubtedly one of the definitive characters of the franchise. And rightly so, in my opinion. The "get over here" spear remains a beloved trademark move that everybody recognizes. And while his story & character has, in recent years, gotten pretty lame...at his best, Scorpion was a well-developed character with a good story that did indeed help define what Mortal Kombat is as a whole.

- Sub-Zero
Also obvious. Plenty has already been said about Sub-Zero...his development, his story, he consistently changes and evoles, etc...so there's probably no point in going into detail. I will say this: although Mortal Kombat is an ensemble story, if I were to single out just one character as the "Main Protagonist" overall...in the sense of it's his journey that is the backbone of the story, his journey we're following, and his destiny we're waiting to see achieved....I would point to Sub-Zero. He's a character who defines the series, while at the same time, is defined by the mythology Mortal Kombat has built for itself.

- Raiden
For my money, the #3 icon behind Scorpion and Sub-Zero. Back in the early days, amongst traditional martial artist characters and ninja, Raiden stood out in a memorable way. Started as a simple homage, but they made him their own. He's retained a prominant and important presence in the story. His look evolves and he's pretty reliable when it comes to gameplay.

- Kitana
Now, even though Sonya came first...and Sonya fans will bite my head off for even daring to suggest such a thing...I consider Kitana to be the definitive Mortal Kombat woman. One of the series most developed characters, one of its best storylines...that has grown to some importance and impact as well. The fans are and remain a unique and memorable weapon. Kitana's impact can be felt, not just in the story, but in other characters' creation. Mileena, Jade, Sindel, Tanya all owe something to her. To me, her character resonates what Mortal Kombat is...much like Scorpion, Sub-Zero, and Raiden do. She defines the series, while at the same time, is defined by it.

- Shao Kahn
I think little explanation is necessary. He was introduced in a big way, with a commanding, god-like presence and you couldn't deny his charisma...constantly belittling and taunting you throughout the fight. No denying his impact on the story as virtually every bad or evil thing in the series can be traced back in some what to Kahn. And I also give Kahn credit for being an appealing balance of brute power and cunning intelligence. Shang Tsung may have been first, but I think Shao Kahn's easily proved to be the definitive villain of Mortal Kombat.

- Quan Chi
A later addition, but in a short time, Quan Chi's established himself as probably Mortal Kombat's definitive manipulator. A shadowy character who always seems to have a back-up plan, I think Quan Chi almost rivals Shao Kahn for impact on the story as a villain. The nihilistic, creepy albino is easily one of the franchise's best villains.

- Shang Tsung
And of course, Shang Tsung. The third main villain, Shang's impact is without question. The soul-steal was, and remains, a defining aspect...not just for him, but the franchise. In Mortal Kombat, not even death itself can be escape. He also had...or had...a memorable gimmick as being the character who could be every character. There's a potentially interesting villain in Shang Tsung's character and backstory...unfortunately, I don't think the MK team makes proper use of it. Regardless, can't deny Shang Tsung's impact.

- Sonya Blade
Sonya was indeed the first female character in Mortal Kombat, and for some people, that's relevant. More important, I think is the fact that she's the center of a rather prominant sub-plot that involves many characters. While not important to the overall grand scheme of things, the Special Forces sub-plot has been a part of the series since the beginning. She also serves a role in the series...as almost every franchise has at least one female character who represents the obligatory "tough modern woman." Sonya also represents the more "realistic" or sci-fi elements of Mortal Kombat. Although the series is predominantly a fantasy with mythological themes and elements, the more realistic and science-fiction stuff has also been there since the beginning. While Sonya obviously isn't the only character with sci-fi elements to her character, that part of the story is mainly her domain.

- Reptile
I lot of people call Reptile an icon merely because he was the first hidden character...but, it case it isn't already apparent, I don't believe just because a character happens to come first automatically makes them special. No, Reptile has more legitimate reasons to be recognized. He is essentially Mortal Kombat's Gollum. While on the face of it, his story consists of him being duped into serving the bad guys again and again...there is a progression (or rather, a downward spiral) to his storyline. Where heroes like Sub-Zero & Kitana grow and triumph on their journeys, Reptile makes the wrong decisions, fails, and sinks. To his credit, his look is also changing...outgrowing the pallete swipe look before most of the other ninja characters did. He has distinctive moves and is usually pretty reliable with his fatalities. Some over-rate him, other under-rate him...but I think Reptile is a definitive character.

- Liu Kang
Loathe as I am to admit, and even though there are far more developed, distinctive, original, and more popular characters, you can't not acknowledge the "guy who saved the day at the end." So congratulations Liu Kang, for being Mortal Kombat's definitive deus ex machina.

- Noob Saibot
An out there choice, I'll admit. Speaking only for myself, but when I think of "hidden character," it's Noob Saibot who comes to my mind first. He was a secret character in MK2 and MK3 before becoming playable in Trilogy. Then he was hidden again in MK4. An add-on to the hand-held Deadly Alliance...now finally considered a legitimate part of the roster. And he has an actually decent storyline. He started as a mysterious henchman/enforcer figure. His story in Trilogy led into the introduction of the Netherealm and Shinnok. And then in Deception they reveal he was the older Sub-Zero in a fairly well-executed twist, in my opinion. All this from a character who started out as an obvious throw-away joke.*

- Goro
I remember when MK1 first came out, and if you looked at the screen, if it wasn't a demo fight, you most likely saw a picture of this son of a bitch staring back at you with the words "GORO LIVES!" Goro was an effective creation as a fearsome boss character. They did a good job as presenting him a something to be feared and make you say "Oh fuck" when it came time to fight him. A massive four-armed beast was also a fairly unique creation at the time...might still be...and it is a memorable image. I also give Goro credit because...while in his first appearance he was little more than a muscle-bound brute...when they brought him back, they actually gave him some character and some development. Making him more than the evil muscle and building him as a more honor-bound warrior who fought for what was best for his people...leading to an effective and fitting death in Deadly Alliance. It's shame they kind of pissed all over that by bringing him back in Deception...but I still consider Goro a definitive character.


I think one could make a case for characters such as Baraka, Cyrax, and even Kabal...but I think the ones I just explained are the top of the heap (I also don't really feel like typing anymore). HOWEVER, even though these characters can be seen as definitive, doesn't mean they should all come back in future games. Some should make room for newer characters to perhaps become definitive in their own right.



*I feel obligated to add a footnote here:
Just because Noob Saibot (and Ermac, too) began as two-bit joke/glitch characters and the MK team made something worth while out of them, doesn't mean they should try it with EVERY joke, rumor, and abandoned concept. It worked for Noob and it worked for Ermac. That's cool. Doesn't mean we needed Meat or Chameleon. Doesn't mean we need to see Tremor, Nimbus Terrafaux, or Tiamut and God knows who else.

I agree with most everything in Xia's post. It kind of annoyed me that all these iconic characters were being listed, and Liu Kang was left off. Sorry guys, but even if you don't like him, he is the guy who saves the day. He belongs on any list of relevant MK characters.

There are a few more that I feel could be added to a list of definitive characters. Namely Mileena, Johnny Cage, Kung Lao, Jax and even Baraka. But with that said, not every one of these characters should return. So many of them should be put out to pasture and replaced with younger characters, or completely new ones.

I honestly want the next Mortal Kombat game to have only 3-5 returning characters. I would love if the next game is a reboot and it had a whole new story and 80% new characters

1. Subby- Iconic
2. Scorpion- Iconic
3. Raiden- Iconic
4. Liu Lang- Champion,Iconic
5. Sonya- First Girl,Iconic
6. Jax- First Black Guy, Cyborg Arms-Iconic
7. Mileena-I like her better than Kitana and my second best character in MK of all. She is also the first bad girl of MK. She is iconic for having a sexy body with hideous teeth.
8. Reptile- The first and most popular raptor. His story might involve more about his homeland Zaterra and the raptor race. Khameleon would be involve in his story as well.
9. Shang Tsung- The only one who can morph.
10. Cyrax- I believe he's the most popeular of the cyborgs
11. Nightwolf- The only Native American MK character yet.
12. Kabal- Unique
13. Ermac- A ninja with cool telekinetic powers.
14. Quan Chi- Another bad ass. If there is a Sareena, there should be Quan Chi.
15. Rain- The only ninja who has the powers of water.
16. Noob- Interesting story.
17. Jade- She is number one to me! There are A LOT of fans, including me, for her. She is the type of character who'd use cool weapons to kill foes. Jade is just the best so far in MK histroy!
18. Kitana- She is my third favorite and she is very popular in the MK series. She also has a good potential to move on in the story.
19. Motaro- The only character who uses four legs in the game (which should return in future games).
20. Shao Khan- One of the most popular badasses ever.
21. Goro- The first, and I believe, the most popular Shokan yet in MK history.
22. Sareena- She has great potential with her storyline. If there is a Quan Chi, there should also be a Sareena.
23. Kano- The most popular character who had first shown the world how to rip out a heart.
24. Nitara- The first vampire in the MK game with a great potential in her storyline. I mean, people still need to know more about her vampire realm.
25. Kenshi- The character who wields a sword and uses telekinetic powers at the same time.
26. Li Mei- For some reason, a lot of people like this girl, including me. Probably because of her sexy asian girl look and because of her innocence as a character. Oh, it also might be because of that carnival kick that she does, which is really impossible to do in real life.
27. Taven- He is the first Edenian male hero and I think he has great potential with his story even though a lot don't like him.
28. Khameleon- She has great potential storywise because players can learn more about what will happen to Zattera. This story will most likely affect Reptile.

Overall, this might be the roster of the returning characters plus a few more new characters.

Ugh, disagreed. The series has a horrible habit of creating some decent ideas, half-assing them, then thowing them to the wayside rather than putting any effort into developing them. Why have an 80% new roster if they're just going to be a bunch of Kais and Sheevas? I'd rather see more Ermacs and Mileenas, thank you very much. Also, see Sergei Dragunov from Tekken 5/6 if you want to see how to bring back your incomplete properties the right way.

Characters should be brought back for two reasons: Either they are iconic to the point where it is good business to include them, or they still have evolving and developing to do, justifying their return. A character that fits both of these requirements is what I would consider the closest you can get to a "must include."

Sub-Zero is probably the biggest "must include" there is. The way he has developed has been fantastic, and it's like he's ready to step up as the main hero. That he is also an icon associated with Mortal Kombat is a pretty big deal. The character I would rank next is Kitana. She plays such an important role in the series, and whether people want to admit it or not, she is the definitive female for Mortal Kombat. She's got so much to do in the future, too. Dare I suggest that the third character I would include would be Shao Kahn. Some may think there is no room for him in future games, but I disagree. He is played out as a boss, yes -- but we still know surprising little about the Emperor of Outworld. Go with the fallen emperor story, and have him looking to regain his power and/or fight against a greater threat to the realms.

Raiden would probably make it based on both the direction of his story and his iconic status. To be honest, sadly, Johnny Cage would also seem to qualify for this (I know Xia would not like that). A lot of other iconic images can be adapted to blank slates -- ie. a new Shokan and a warrior that uses retractable blades (not neccessarily a Tarkata). And unfortunately, as shit as his story is, Scorpion would make it just on his iconic status. Sonya and Jax would probably make them too, as they slip in all the time, and that they have been hinting at their feud in the past few games makes me think that it is on their to-do list.

So if you wanted a definitive list of characters that I think would automatically be assumed as a starting point for the next game, I feel they would be:

Jax
Johnny Cage
Kitana
New Bladed Warrior
New Shokan
Raiden
Scorpion
Shao Kahn
Sonya
Sub-Zero

That's eight returning characters and two new characters. Of those, the most out of place is Johnny Cage; but I really, really wouldn't be surprised if he makes it into the next saga. Just call it a hunch.

Wow, lots to reply to. Let's get started...


True, he may not be very popular, fleshed out, or even conceptually cool, but I think Nightwolf scores really high on third criterion of representation. To me Nightwolf, Kabal, and the 3 cyborgs epitomize what MK3 was all about. And he was very important in Deception, even if he didn't interact with any of the characters (memory tells me that his ending was confirmed canon in the 2004 Fight Night).

For Shujinko, well that's all second criterion. From a story perspective, I would consider him one of the most important characters of the post-mk4 era. Though I have a personal bias, since to me, Shujinko reminds me how much MK is conglomeration of homages, and I think he personifies that well. I'd bet on him being absent from MK9, but I'd be surprised if we never saw him again.

As for Noob Saibot being the definitive hidden character... If we're going by attendance and just how much he was hidden, then yes. Noob has been in at least one incarnation of almost every MK game, and I don't know anyone outside of the net who actually fought him in the arcade of MKII. But ignoring both Noob and Reptile, I'm tempted to give the title to Ermac, who's hidden-ness was legendary (even if on false pretenses).

But Noob will be back soon. There's no doubt about that. Definitive or not, his popularity is scary huge.


I loled.


If we're taking into consideration his MK3 story (assuming it's canon) and his potential alliance with Subz, then yes, I definitely agree with you. But he needs a voice again. Smoke as a mindless body guard for Noob is far too modest for a character with so much foundation. If the Tekunin is going to be a major theme in the next game, then it would be ridiculous not bring Smoke into the picture.

I say get Subzero and Smoke in the same room, have them shake hands, and then watch them fuck shit up.

As a note to everyone else, thanks for posting your list. Sorry I couldn't reply to everyone. I really shouldn't have let this thread get so big before responding.

double post

RE: Definitive character lists

1. Subzero - we'll be seeing him in MKIX

2. Scorpion - See Above

3. Sonya - Since we already have 2 classics in, I cant see them NOT including at least 1 classic female. Either her or Kitana (if not both)

4. Raiden - I think he will return, though I dont think he is a guarantee like sub and scorps

5. Johnny Cage - I dont see it. They already ignored him in MKvsDCU lol. I expect him to get dissed again

6. Kitana - Remember what I said about Sonya?

7. Kung Lao - Kung Lao...you know... I've always sensed a strong "Lui Kang before Kung Lao" aura surrounding the series (Unfortunately). However, I DONT want to see Lui Kang return. Idk...I kind of see him in IX, kind of dont...50/50 for him

8. Baraka - We still need at least 1 classic brutal villian. Him or Mileena (both?) could fit the bill

9. Cyrax - No.

10. Ermac - No.

11. Kabal - Definitely No.

12. Nightwolf - He's an EXCELLENT character - but I dont see it

13. Quan Chi - hmmm... I can see it, surprisingly.

14. Kenshi - No.

15. Shujinko - No. Do ppl really remember him/care about him/care about his story?

16. Taven - See above.

Sooo, to revise your list to fit my opinions (in order of certainty):

1. Scorpion
2. Sub-Zero
3. Sonya
4. Raiden
5. Kitana
6. Kung lao
7. Baraka, with an honorable mention to Mileena
8. Quan Chi, with an honorable mention to Shang Tsung

and to round it up to 10

9. Mileena - shes one of those brutal villains, like Baraka. I cant see them both being in MK9 though :( ...I hope she wins lol
10. Shang Tsung - classic playable sub-boss who steals souls. nuff said. make him old again though! Either him or Q.Chi - dont see both.

-

I'd take Shang Tsung over Quan Chi, personally. Just because of the different types of "evil" they represent. Xia has done an excellent analysis on this which I completely agree with. Quan Chi is a more pure evil, than the more mortal evil in Shang Tsung. Both could no doubt do interesting things in the story, but we'd always know why Chi was doing them. Tsung adds a little bit more of a "wild card" into things, as he can develop further -- perhaps to the point where he is even "tired" of all of this.

Then you go to the points about Shang Tsung going right back to the first Mortal Kombat, being the first final boss, and all that jazz.

Add Taven(my sons name) and Liu Kang and you would have a game that I would buy.

Plus 8 new characters

DLC

Who am I kidding I will anything MK

I still would like a Motor Kombat game done right