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D-Pad presence in the future of all fighting games.
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posted04/24/2010 04:10 PM (UTC)by
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Tekunin_General
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04/19/2006 02:12 AM (UTC)
I found myself recently talking to a friend whos opinion I respect in terms of games. A very well informed and unbiased opinion. We were talking of Mortal Kombat which he hated forever until we started talking of the Canon story. Some interest is spiked in his mind.

He conveyed his opinion to me that he has read a few times, that D-pad functionality is soon to be a thing of the past with the evolution of games and natural technological advances in the way we play our games will eventually see the complete and ruthless takeover by that which we know as a joystick.

I Use the joystick very much in games. Shooters demand them, camera panning usually involves. The way we design our games now require a 360 degree dynamic to be implimented.

I feel this is a very great argument. However, when it comes to fighting games, my world is flipped on its head and i find myself defending the D-pad to the bitter and bloody end.

It ultimately comes down to preference. But I feel using a joystick, or at least that which is on a controller, is very sloppy in games we generally play on a mental 2D plane. We think, forward, backwards, up to jump and manover, and down to duck. Button inputs are not needed to judge as you know if you press a button compared to just moving a joystick a tiny bit will input a movement command.

I have been in love with the D-Pad since the classic games of the series. And then came the dilemna of which system to purchase MKDC for. I thought and pondered. PS3 being a very powerful system in the right hands. Games are usually made for xbox360's base limitations and then implimented onto the PS3 to have a successfull game on both systems in terms of performance.

The base factor in my decision was... The D-Pad. Microsofts Joysticks are superior in endurance and performance compared to PS3. But comparing the Dpad was what made the decision a no-brainer. Xbox impliments their so called "DPad" as a single piece of plastic stuck to 4 sensors for pressure. This is easily the most ill-advised thing a company or designer could do for a controller. Its too clunky and just perform terrible compared to Sony's sleek and efficiant D-pad that is at least separated on the surface.

We are coming into the future of fighting games where more skill-based tactics are needed, and precision can cause the tide of a battle to turn with just a single wrong input or miss-communication on a clunky D-Pads behalf. Fatality inputs especially could get annoying.

My question to you, MKO. Would you miss the D-Pad like myself? Do you welcome joystick play? Something so small is so important in the future of this and other franchises. Come MK9 I will with no doubt in my mind, go again to the PS3 version as my success and skill with MKDC is greater than that of any previous game as a result of my comfortability with the D-pad and precision in my actions.

I look forward to your responses and I apologize if any thread is similar in recent past. I did not see any.


-Casselman
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caleblood
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 •04/11/2010 10:53 PM (UTC) •
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And the worst has yet to come.See,in the future,not only the D-pad might disappear,but even the controllers might be candidates for extinction too.Take a look to what happens now with Microsoft's 'project natal' and Sony's 'move' to make video gaming 'more simple' and 'motion-based'.I think that they give us a taste of what to expect in the future.Not that these projects are a bad idea,but they may push game development companies to discontinue controllers for the sake of those projects.It won't bother me to play motion based fighting games...but the D-pad is synonimus with fighting games and must not disappear.....
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MrHoppyX
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 •04/11/2010 11:31 PM (UTC) •
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Traditionally fighting games are played with digital input. It makes sense with how they (currently) work. Moves are digital, in that they either happen, or they don't. Move properties are the same for every execution of that move. As is the animation. For sure using an analog stick in a game designed for d-pad is not good, and you could call it "sloppy". However i certainly don't agree with your suggestion that it has to do with 2dness. Both analog and digital pads are 2d.

I think a fighting game could be designed that used the analog stick to good effect. To actually use the huge amount of information possible with analog control though, you'd need moves, and correspondingly animation, that worked in a way dependent on how you exectuted them. Maybe with animation "blending" or something. This would be a huge job though. If it was made, it would mean that you had more control, and would mean that players would benefit from a lot of practice. It's like having moves based on how hard triggers are pressed etc.

However, i think it would be pretty complicated to play, and I don't think it would be plausible that they could make it work well enough. Also it would make life even harder for the cackhanded. Maybe it would be good for a new franchise or an experiment, but putting it into the next MK? No.

So stick with digital. There's plenty of scope for subtleties with stuff like how long a directional input is held, time between subsequent inputs etc. Too bad the 360s d-pad is complete cock. Second thought maybe analog would be interesting. Keep the moves input with digital response - just use thresholds for the analog input, but the analogness would be useful for moving around the arena etc. It could work. (But i still think it would be a disaster without an indefinitely long "it's done when it's done" development period. I think Boon and co should play with stuff, but i want my MK in time for Xmas :) )
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cyberdog
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 •04/12/2010 12:18 AM (UTC) •
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Joysticks are great for fighters but pads just as good and they come with consoles.
Until they bundle two big joysticks with consoles they will never be as popular.
As for motion cameras and waggle stuff its all round shit you get no precision at all.
Aparantly loads of developers are having massive problems with natal but m$ have millions invested in the thing and it still doesnt work as it should.
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Shadaloo
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MK Khronology: 58.49% complete...
 •04/12/2010 03:43 AM (UTC) •
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I first learned MK2 and U/MK3 in arcades, and spent just as much, if not more time at home with them on the SNES - MKII especially. Arcades had a long, drawn-out painful death, and while I hit them up for MK4 every once in a blue moon, competition was scarce (read - everyone was too busy with the Capcom Marvel games) and I played most of my MK4 at home on PSX. Combine that with the prior year or so of MK Trilogy and...yeah. I wound up getting so used to the D-pad for fighters.

I got the SF4 arcade stick when it came out, and I've acclimated to SF on that, but the going was clumsy and I think I'm still better on the pad. And MK? Forget about it. Tapping movements on a joystick are damn awkward for me, and I can barely pull off fatalities on the thing to save my life. I'm way too used to the pad for MK. Thumb-taps have become second nature.
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LycaniLLusion
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 •04/22/2010 12:06 PM (UTC) •
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i think that both options should be available but i prefer the d-pad over joystick/analog use...at least for general movements and what not. things like wiggling the sticks for test your might/struggles,side stepping/dodging taps or something like that i could get use to easier but for all out moving and stuff i would have trouble.
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Sub-Zero_7th
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 •04/22/2010 02:50 PM (UTC) •
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Personally, I'm more used to using the D-Pad in fighting games. However, with systems like the Wii as well as the development of Project Natal and Playstation: Move, we'll see the lack of a D-Pad. Part of me is still attached to the SNES days, so I would miss the presence of the D-Pad.

For Mortal Kombat games, if they're going to stick with 3D, they could have 2D movement using the D-Pad and 3D movement like in MK: Shaolin Monks using the analog stick. It might sound a bit complicated when thinking about how that would work. However, to get away from the 2.5D feel, having 3D movement via analog stick should probably be done.
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LycaniLLusion
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 •04/22/2010 06:19 PM (UTC) •
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Sub-Zero_7th Wrote:
Personally, I'm more used to using the D-Pad in fighting games. However, with systems like the Wii as well as the development of Project Natal and Playstation: Move, we'll see the lack of a D-Pad. Part of me is still attached to the SNES days, so I would miss the presence of the D-Pad.

For Mortal Kombat games, if they're going to stick with 3D, they could have 2D movement using the D-Pad and 3D movement like in MK: Shaolin Monks using the analog stick. It might sound a bit complicated when thinking about how that would work. However, to get away from the 2.5D feel, having 3D movement via analog stick should probably be done.


that is why both options should be available and you should also be able to switch it around (customize config).
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Sub-Zero_7th
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 •04/22/2010 07:28 PM (UTC) •
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LycaniLLusion Wrote:
Sub-Zero_7th Wrote:
Personally, I'm more used to using the D-Pad in fighting games. However, with systems like the Wii as well as the development of Project Natal and Playstation: Move, we'll see the lack of a D-Pad. Part of me is still attached to the SNES days, so I would miss the presence of the D-Pad.

For Mortal Kombat games, if they're going to stick with 3D, they could have 2D movement using the D-Pad and 3D movement like in MK: Shaolin Monks using the analog stick. It might sound a bit complicated when thinking about how that would work. However, to get away from the 2.5D feel, having 3D movement via analog stick should probably be done.


that is why both options should be available and you should also be able to switch it around (customize config).


That's not what I meant. I was talking about combining those two together in the fighting system.
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LycaniLLusion
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 •04/23/2010 08:38 AM (UTC) •
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Sub-Zero_7th Wrote:
LycaniLLusion Wrote:
Sub-Zero_7th Wrote:
Personally, I'm more used to using the D-Pad in fighting games. However, with systems like the Wii as well as the development of Project Natal and Playstation: Move, we'll see the lack of a D-Pad. Part of me is still attached to the SNES days, so I would miss the presence of the D-Pad.

For Mortal Kombat games, if they're going to stick with 3D, they could have 2D movement using the D-Pad and 3D movement like in MK: Shaolin Monks using the analog stick. It might sound a bit complicated when thinking about how that would work. However, to get away from the 2.5D feel, having 3D movement via analog stick should probably be done.


that is why both options should be available and you should also be able to switch it around (customize config).


That's not what I meant. I was talking about combining those two together in the fighting system.


yeah i know...lol and hence why i said it should be customizable also. its not rocket science dude and im not stupid lol. not only should it be customizable it should also have the classic controls available. lets face it...some people just can't adjust to new things.
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Sub-Zero_7th
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 •04/23/2010 12:50 PM (UTC) •
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While that might be cool, it would require much more time to work on. It's basically using three different fighting systems.
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LycaniLLusion
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 •04/24/2010 12:55 AM (UTC) •
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Sub-Zero_7th Wrote:
While that might be cool, it would require much more time to work on. It's basically using three different fighting systems.


i don't think we are on the same page. you clearly don't understand what i mean.
technically it would not be 3 different control systems. it would either eliminate the 3d movements or just be different control layouts.
like if lets say you did not like the analog use for back and forth moving...you could switch the analog with the d-pad. the major thing you have to think about here is the jumping system with such a setup...there might have to be a jump button. unless jump is restricted to diagonals. it depends on the system of play they use but trying to have all the control option possible is the best way to go because it will open the door for people who can't adjust. if its all new controls or not there should be a feature to setup custom controls...which there usually is anyways.
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BIG_SYKE19
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 •04/24/2010 04:10 PM (UTC) •
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i love the dpad for fighting games. i hate motion control. joystics are alright.
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