~ An Idea For The MK:8 Fighting Mechanics: Right Analog Stick Interactivity
Mortal Kombat X
Pages: 1
~ An Idea For The MK:8 Fighting Mechanics: Right Analog Stick Interactivity
I was re-reading the interview with Ed Boon about the next MK game. When he said that they're "starting from scratch", I started thinking about what they would and could do with the new fighting system that would make it welcomed by the gamers.
I came up with a new idea that I'd like everyone to read about and see what they think about it.
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Fighting is all about chances and how well you take advantadge of those chances. It's how you string together a pop-up and a kombo, how you retaliate with a perfect hit when your opponent misses you, or when you shoot a projectile as the opponent jumps away. If you take good enough advantadge of the chances that are given to you, you get closer and closer to your victory than if you just fight wildly, hoping to land something at some point.
I think the MK Team could add to the strategic element of fights by adding a new interactivity with the Right Analog Stick. By motioning with the Right Analog Stick in some way, we could follow-up on a hit that opens up chances for more hits. Let me give some examples for you guys to see what I'm talking about:
Sonya (Player 1) VS. Kira (Player 2). P2 performs a special and P1 side-steps it to evade. Taking this chance for a hit, P1 lands a very, very simple mid-kick to Kira that catches her in the stomach:
In the past MK Games, Kira would just stumble back with a groan. However, with this idea of mine, it would be different. When P1's kick lands, Kira doubles over and holds her stomach in pain. P2 motions the Right Analog Stick with an upward semi-circle. Sonya follows the motion by setting her hand on Kira's back and flipping over her body (semicircle movement), landing on the other side of the Kira. Now, P1 can flick the Right Analog Stick downward and Sonya will sweep Kira. P1 can also flick the Stick in Kira's direction, and Sonya will kick her in the butt and send her sliding away. Or, P1 chooses to flick the Stick upward, and Sonya flips again, landing a kick to Kira's back that pops her into the air for a combo.
When Kira doubled-over, they can put in some special effect that alerts P1 that this is a chance to follow up with a Right Analog Stick action; maybe just a simple lighting effect like when you hit someone in Tekken. If P1 is quick enough, he takes extra-advantadge of a simple kick and opens up the possibility for another one. If he's as smart as he is quick, he flicks the stick for an attack that'll open up even more (Sonya's flip). Get it?
Other examples, more varied:
Sub-Zero (Player 1) Vs. Noob Saibot (Player 2). Sub-Zero slashes Noob's face with his sword, and Noob staggers backward, holding it (the special effect appears, signaling a chance for extra hits). P1 flicks the Right Analog Stick toward Noob, which prompts Sub-Zero to start running in Noob's direction. P1 continues holding it, allowing Sub-Zero to reach Noob and tackle him, knocking him away for extra damage.
Mileena (Player 1) Vs. Baraka (Player 2). At the end of P1's kombo, Mileena cuts Baraka's chest with her Sai. P1 sees the signal for extra hits as Baraka growls and holds his cut.
If P1 flicks the Right Analog Stick backward, Mileena flips back, kicking Baraka's jaw with her boots.
If P1 flicks the Stick forward, Mileena stabs Baraka with her right Sai, then kicks him away, withdrawing it for more damage than a simple kick to the jaw.
If P1 flicks the Stick upward, Mileena jumps on Baraka's shoulders, bites his head, them kicks him away.
If P1 flicks the Stick downward, Mileena slashes Baraka's knees, which brings up the signal again as Baraka falls to the ground. P1 can then flick the stick forward for Mileena to jump on his back, OR flick the stick downard to kick his head, flick it upward for Mileena to grab Baraka's throat and fling him up for a combo, or flick it backward for Mileena to simply jump away.
Things are clearer now, hopefully? ^_^
Anyway, each character would have different attacks that would prompt these "Special Chances", as well as different reactions for the "Special Chances". If you wanted to truly master an MK:8 character, you would not only have to master his/her moves and combos, but also which hits prompt the "SC"s, and which Right Analog Stick motion takes the most advantadge out of it, if any (they would be rare).
When you take advantade of an "SC", the screen could show it by going into a more cinematic position, similar to MK:A when you hit your opponent with a pop-up attack three times and cannot do it anymore.
Of course, the victim on the painful end of these extra attacks should have a chance to get out of them. I think something similar to the "Parry" system could be put into play here, only not limited. If the victim can "parry" one of the special attacks the moment they hit, the victimized character could escape the situation, maybe by grabbing the attacking limb and throwing the attacker away.
One extra thing: You might ask yourself, "Why I would perform an "SC" move if I can just hit the guy with a combo instead?". Well, to make it work, the MK Team would have to allow the victim to hold Block as he/she staggers or doubles overs during an "SC" and stop the attacker from landing any normal attack besides a throw, which would do less damage than an SC move.
This idea would make fights more strategic, not to mention flashier and cooler-looking, like an actual fight. To expand on this idea, maye an "SC" could come even when your opponent is attacking YOU. Maybe your opponent can perform some kind of an attack, and his/her limb strikes with the "SC" special effect. You flick the Right Analog Stick in an appropriate manner (instead of blocking), and you grab your opponent's attacking limb, entering "SC"-advantadge mode just as normally. To be a real master of these "SC"s, you'd have to be quick, smart and be better than ever at foreseeing chances you're gonna get to attack, and you'd be rewarded justly.
=========================
So what's everyone's opinion of this? >= (
I came up with a new idea that I'd like everyone to read about and see what they think about it.
=========================
Fighting is all about chances and how well you take advantadge of those chances. It's how you string together a pop-up and a kombo, how you retaliate with a perfect hit when your opponent misses you, or when you shoot a projectile as the opponent jumps away. If you take good enough advantadge of the chances that are given to you, you get closer and closer to your victory than if you just fight wildly, hoping to land something at some point.
I think the MK Team could add to the strategic element of fights by adding a new interactivity with the Right Analog Stick. By motioning with the Right Analog Stick in some way, we could follow-up on a hit that opens up chances for more hits. Let me give some examples for you guys to see what I'm talking about:
Sonya (Player 1) VS. Kira (Player 2). P2 performs a special and P1 side-steps it to evade. Taking this chance for a hit, P1 lands a very, very simple mid-kick to Kira that catches her in the stomach:
In the past MK Games, Kira would just stumble back with a groan. However, with this idea of mine, it would be different. When P1's kick lands, Kira doubles over and holds her stomach in pain. P2 motions the Right Analog Stick with an upward semi-circle. Sonya follows the motion by setting her hand on Kira's back and flipping over her body (semicircle movement), landing on the other side of the Kira. Now, P1 can flick the Right Analog Stick downward and Sonya will sweep Kira. P1 can also flick the Stick in Kira's direction, and Sonya will kick her in the butt and send her sliding away. Or, P1 chooses to flick the Stick upward, and Sonya flips again, landing a kick to Kira's back that pops her into the air for a combo.
When Kira doubled-over, they can put in some special effect that alerts P1 that this is a chance to follow up with a Right Analog Stick action; maybe just a simple lighting effect like when you hit someone in Tekken. If P1 is quick enough, he takes extra-advantadge of a simple kick and opens up the possibility for another one. If he's as smart as he is quick, he flicks the stick for an attack that'll open up even more (Sonya's flip). Get it?
Other examples, more varied:
Sub-Zero (Player 1) Vs. Noob Saibot (Player 2). Sub-Zero slashes Noob's face with his sword, and Noob staggers backward, holding it (the special effect appears, signaling a chance for extra hits). P1 flicks the Right Analog Stick toward Noob, which prompts Sub-Zero to start running in Noob's direction. P1 continues holding it, allowing Sub-Zero to reach Noob and tackle him, knocking him away for extra damage.
Mileena (Player 1) Vs. Baraka (Player 2). At the end of P1's kombo, Mileena cuts Baraka's chest with her Sai. P1 sees the signal for extra hits as Baraka growls and holds his cut.
If P1 flicks the Right Analog Stick backward, Mileena flips back, kicking Baraka's jaw with her boots.
If P1 flicks the Stick forward, Mileena stabs Baraka with her right Sai, then kicks him away, withdrawing it for more damage than a simple kick to the jaw.
If P1 flicks the Stick upward, Mileena jumps on Baraka's shoulders, bites his head, them kicks him away.
If P1 flicks the Stick downward, Mileena slashes Baraka's knees, which brings up the signal again as Baraka falls to the ground. P1 can then flick the stick forward for Mileena to jump on his back, OR flick the stick downard to kick his head, flick it upward for Mileena to grab Baraka's throat and fling him up for a combo, or flick it backward for Mileena to simply jump away.
Things are clearer now, hopefully? ^_^
Anyway, each character would have different attacks that would prompt these "Special Chances", as well as different reactions for the "Special Chances". If you wanted to truly master an MK:8 character, you would not only have to master his/her moves and combos, but also which hits prompt the "SC"s, and which Right Analog Stick motion takes the most advantadge out of it, if any (they would be rare).
When you take advantade of an "SC", the screen could show it by going into a more cinematic position, similar to MK:A when you hit your opponent with a pop-up attack three times and cannot do it anymore.
Of course, the victim on the painful end of these extra attacks should have a chance to get out of them. I think something similar to the "Parry" system could be put into play here, only not limited. If the victim can "parry" one of the special attacks the moment they hit, the victimized character could escape the situation, maybe by grabbing the attacking limb and throwing the attacker away.
One extra thing: You might ask yourself, "Why I would perform an "SC" move if I can just hit the guy with a combo instead?". Well, to make it work, the MK Team would have to allow the victim to hold Block as he/she staggers or doubles overs during an "SC" and stop the attacker from landing any normal attack besides a throw, which would do less damage than an SC move.
This idea would make fights more strategic, not to mention flashier and cooler-looking, like an actual fight. To expand on this idea, maye an "SC" could come even when your opponent is attacking YOU. Maybe your opponent can perform some kind of an attack, and his/her limb strikes with the "SC" special effect. You flick the Right Analog Stick in an appropriate manner (instead of blocking), and you grab your opponent's attacking limb, entering "SC"-advantadge mode just as normally. To be a real master of these "SC"s, you'd have to be quick, smart and be better than ever at foreseeing chances you're gonna get to attack, and you'd be rewarded justly.
=========================
So what's everyone's opinion of this? >= (
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Seriously, after all my years here, this is actuallly one of the few ideas concerning mechanics which is actually on the right track and is relatively fresh, at least with regards to physical execution. Not just some fanboy banter. Kudos, lol. 
Though, fighting games are not soley about taking advantage of "chances," but actively creating the opportunity for those chances. If I'm understanding your explanations, similar systems have been in place for sometime, minus the "anolog execution," which is a nice little twist.
Most legitimate fighters utilize frame advantage, which sounds very similar to what you're proposing. But in other games it's integrated into the core input system - not something like anolog, which you're proposing.
Using tekken as an example - because that's what we do here
. Playing bryan in DR, if you connect a b+4 on a crouching opponent they will stumble back and you get a guaranteed f,f+2. This is not a "canned" combo or string, like mk with 1,1,2,3,4,1 bullshit. But completely independant moves which naturally combo into each other - the "chance" that you are refering to is the crouching opponent, allowing for the b+4 to connect in the first place.
He's a vid of a similar situation:
DR Bryan Combo
Never mind the first two hits, he fucks up, then starts over. But what you're seeing is him tuanting, canceling the tuant quick enough to hit a b+4, then hits the launcher quick enough so that IT ALL COMBOS, AND IT IS ALL GURANTEED. Actual combo notation is 1+3+4~b+4~f,b+2, 3+4 (wall splat) 1,2,1, d/f+3 (just fyi, the sweep is no longer guranteed, but everyone does it anyway :shrugs:)
Anyway, i think that is the kind of shit your are proposing, but just with a different input pattern. Right idea, but my only concern is amount of inputs the game would utilize. The game has a SHIT LOAD of buttons right now, then you're going to add analog commands? You'd have to simnplify the inputs, IMO - direction pad, 6 or so buttong plus analog is waaaaay overboad. Plus stick players are getting the shaft
Doesn't Shaolin monks utilize an analog system to an extent, aside from movement? Damn, it's been so long, i only played the demo but i really, really liked the input system. MK needs to go more in that direction for it's fighters, but that's another topic. Peace and love ya'll.
Though, fighting games are not soley about taking advantage of "chances," but actively creating the opportunity for those chances. If I'm understanding your explanations, similar systems have been in place for sometime, minus the "anolog execution," which is a nice little twist.
Most legitimate fighters utilize frame advantage, which sounds very similar to what you're proposing. But in other games it's integrated into the core input system - not something like anolog, which you're proposing.
Using tekken as an example - because that's what we do here
He's a vid of a similar situation:
DR Bryan Combo
Never mind the first two hits, he fucks up, then starts over. But what you're seeing is him tuanting, canceling the tuant quick enough to hit a b+4, then hits the launcher quick enough so that IT ALL COMBOS, AND IT IS ALL GURANTEED. Actual combo notation is 1+3+4~b+4~f,b+2, 3+4 (wall splat) 1,2,1, d/f+3 (just fyi, the sweep is no longer guranteed, but everyone does it anyway :shrugs:)
Anyway, i think that is the kind of shit your are proposing, but just with a different input pattern. Right idea, but my only concern is amount of inputs the game would utilize. The game has a SHIT LOAD of buttons right now, then you're going to add analog commands? You'd have to simnplify the inputs, IMO - direction pad, 6 or so buttong plus analog is waaaaay overboad. Plus stick players are getting the shaft
Doesn't Shaolin monks utilize an analog system to an extent, aside from movement? Damn, it's been so long, i only played the demo but i really, really liked the input system. MK needs to go more in that direction for it's fighters, but that's another topic. Peace and love ya'll.
Satyagraha Wrote:
Seriously, after all my years here, this is actuallly one of the few ideas concerning mechanics which is actually on the right track and is relatively fresh, at least with regards to physical execution. Not just some fanboy banter. Kudos, lol.
Seriously, after all my years here, this is actuallly one of the few ideas concerning mechanics which is actually on the right track and is relatively fresh, at least with regards to physical execution. Not just some fanboy banter. Kudos, lol.
LoL, Thank you
Satyagraha Wrote:
Most legitimate fighters utilize frame advantage, which sounds very similar to what you're proposing. But in other games it's integrated into the core input system - not something like anolog, which you're proposing.
Using tekken as an example - because that's what we do here. Playing bryan in DR, if you connect a b+4 on a crouching opponent they will stumble back and you get a guaranteed f,f+2. This is not a "canned" combo or string, like mk with 1,1,2,3,4,1 bullshit. But completely independant moves which naturally combo into each other - the "chance" that you are refering to is the crouching opponent, allowing for the b+4 to connect in the first place.
He's a vid of a similar situation:
DR Bryan Combo
Never mind the first two hits, he fucks up, then starts over. But what you're seeing is him tuanting, canceling the tuant quick enough to hit a b+4, then hits the launcher quick enough so that IT ALL COMBOS, AND IT IS ALL GURANTEED. Actual combo notation is 1+3+4~b+4~f,b+2, 3+4 (wall splat) 1,2,1, d/f+3 (just fyi, the sweep is no longer guranteed, but everyone does it anyway :shrugs:)
Most legitimate fighters utilize frame advantage, which sounds very similar to what you're proposing. But in other games it's integrated into the core input system - not something like anolog, which you're proposing.
Using tekken as an example - because that's what we do here
He's a vid of a similar situation:
DR Bryan Combo
Never mind the first two hits, he fucks up, then starts over. But what you're seeing is him tuanting, canceling the tuant quick enough to hit a b+4, then hits the launcher quick enough so that IT ALL COMBOS, AND IT IS ALL GURANTEED. Actual combo notation is 1+3+4~b+4~f,b+2, 3+4 (wall splat) 1,2,1, d/f+3 (just fyi, the sweep is no longer guranteed, but everyone does it anyway :shrugs:)
Yeah, I play Tekken quite a bit, so I am loosely aware of what you're bringing up.
The reason that I went a different way and threw in the analog stick motions is because I'd like these to be more "cinematic", for lack of a better word. I'd like these types of "chains" to feel "different" then if you just actually planned and hit a string of normal-looking attacks. In truth, this is a big part of this idea I came up with: integrating something into the core gameplay that fits in well, but stands alone as a "flashy" achievement if you can properly master. It makes the fight look cooler, yes, but also more realistic. With an idea like this, I think you wouldn't feel as though you're just exchanging hits with your opponent. Instead, you'd feel like you were in an actual fight, and the smallest mistake or the fastest thinking could have a big impact on how the fight proceeds. In a way, this idea helps the players to kind of draw themselves away for a few seconds from the average-looking battle of "you punch me, I punch you", and have their experience in a single round be more exciting and engaging to look at and command. Am I being too insane here? LoL
Anyway, that's what I was aiming for, and why I completely ignored the planned-out special combos that most fighting games have.
Satyagraha Wrote:
Right idea, but my only concern is amount of inputs the game would utilize. The game has a SHIT LOAD of buttons right now, then you're going to add analog commands? You'd have to simnplify the inputs, IMO - direction pad, 6 or so buttong plus analog is waaaaay overboad. Plus stick players are getting the shaft.
Right idea, but my only concern is amount of inputs the game would utilize. The game has a SHIT LOAD of buttons right now, then you're going to add analog commands? You'd have to simnplify the inputs, IMO - direction pad, 6 or so buttong plus analog is waaaaay overboad. Plus stick players are getting the shaft
Yeah, this idea could also be well-implemented with the use of the directional buttons, so it's all good. HOWEVER, using the right analog stick would make it possible for characters to have responses to different motions aside from up, down, left, right. That would, IMO, make the fighting more diverse and all the more innovative.
Satyagraha Wrote:
Doesn't Shaolin monks utilize an analog system to an extent, aside from movement? Damn, it's been so long, i only played the demo but i really, really liked the input system. MK needs to go more in that direction for it's fighters, but that's another topic. Peace and love ya'll.
Doesn't Shaolin monks utilize an analog system to an extent, aside from movement? Damn, it's been so long, i only played the demo but i really, really liked the input system. MK needs to go more in that direction for it's fighters, but that's another topic. Peace and love ya'll.
I got nooooo idea, lol. Haven't played Shaolin Monks in a good while. :-/
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