Well we haven't really started diving into the deep end with the MK9 stuff at all yet...

But yeah, I like how they changed Sheeva from a role that would've given her plot stuff to do, to being a "jailer" in a game where there is no jail or dungeon stage in Outworld. The whole "Hang this prisoner from a chain in the Deadpool! Tie that one to a post in the Tower!" bit was kinda hilarious. Also, what was up with her being at MK1? She wasn't even in any tournament matches, she just pops up out of nowhere for one scene trying to assassinate Cyrax and that's the only time she shows up. Kinda takes away from the shock and awe of Goro's debut having another Shokan just randomly appear before he does, doesn't it? The real irony being Goro's Lair DOES have jail cells, they were used for Jax, and neither she nor Goro were guarding him when Sonya rescues him, lol.

I’m sure they don’t. Could this be because they are comic book fans? Journalists and some movie fans often approve this. My MS Word for WIN7 doesn’t apparently accept the word. MK/DC is a game in a game series.
Mortal Kombat 9 is also a parallel universe or "Elseworld" and its changes to the characters are widely considered as retcons. Even though the story itself changes, the characters may not change. Perhaps they should be considered as two separate things here with the retcon thing. Especially when talking about a fighting game where there is more emphasis on individual characters than in FPS games for instance.
I know Red Son to some extent, yeah. There's the red sun and all those changes. Although it might not be a crime to discuss about retcon stuff, it may be for the best to leave the train soon enough. Many points were brought up in this rather intriguing discussion. Solely seeing that nothing in this topic nor ]{0MBAT himself denies the inclusion of MK/DC in this thread, I think it shall be included. Its changes are also interesting to find.
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Jax obtained arm implants instead of gauntlets in Mortal Kombat 9.

The developers claim otherwise.

It's only been deemed an alternate universe by fans looking to explain the inconsistencies. As far as Boon and Vogel are concerned, the Armageddon message didn't leap into some parallel Earth, it went back to the SAME Raiden's past - this is the way they want us to believe MK1 thru 3 actually happened (as idiotic and impossible as that is), except for the parts Raiden changes.

That is why the differences are being called retcons. Because NRS claims we're still in the main continuity.

It's rationally not possible, but it's their game and their rules, I guess.
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Ermac and Mileena were created during around MK–MK3 in MK9.

SonyaBladeJunkie, I read through your tear-soaked novel of a post, now its time to answer your...ahem..."points".

"If its a different universe as you claim, why does NRS blah blah franchise rape blah blah call it a re-imagining?

First answer: wow dramatic much? The best MK game ever is "rape"? But enough of that, to me re-imagining and alt universe sound pretty much the same. Or put it this way, there are ways you can justify the new story and make it not totally wipe out the original timeline...or you can sit around and bitch about retcons. Obviously, you and I both made our choice. Also, at some point you have to look at the internal logic of the stories themselves and not what the creators say in interviews. Cause I've got a newsflash for you: the creators don't actually care nearly as much as the most psychotic fans do.

"Shao Kahn hadn't won before the message went back. There goes your theory in a puff of smoke *poof*"

If the One Being is all that ever existed and ever will, it's very concievable it exists outside of time itself. It wouldn't have to matter when Kahn merged all the realms, if the past, present and future themselves cease to exist. Poof indeed.

"My issue with Quan Chi at the first tournament is he wasn't introduced until MK4"

Who gives a shit? It's not like he just popped into existence during MK4 in the original timeline either. And in case it was too subtle for you, the whole reason he offers to ressurect Sindel and encourages Kahn to merge without winning an MK is because he's SETTING HIM UP TO FAIL. He wants the elder gods to take him out for breaking the rules so Shinnok can attack an Outworld without its Emperor.

"Sonya's team was captured and their lives ransomed to force her to fight. Jax is her CO so its logical he was there."

No, it's not. Because her team DIED. She didn't win, remember? Liu did. Sonya lost and her guys were executed. So what you're saying is Jax died, then magically resurrected to rescue Sonya in MK2. Brilliant.

As for Kitana and Mileena, if you really are a writer then you should know the saying about "show, don't tell". They could get away with that in the old format where we extrapolated little bits of info from text bios and endings, and build up a skeletal framework of what exactly was supposed to be happening. Now of course we have cinematic presentation with actual cutscenes and voice actors and the whole nine yards. In this format, it would be super lame for Kitana to already know about Mileena's origin and how Kahn killed her real father and just be waiting to switch sides. Picture someone playing this as their first MK game; it would come out of nowhere and they would be all "wait, WHAT?!" It works out much better when our protagonist finds out for herself, as we are playing as her. It's undeniably a big change and a retcon, but it was a necessary one.

Also, Mileena the "sex clown" debuted IN Deception so I don't get why everyone who hates her new personality wants it to go back to that game. It is the same as that game, and before that she had no personality. She was a complete blank and a few people here just read too many Malibu comics back in the day.

And finally, SonyaBladeJunkie, calling this game a "jacked up POS'? I'm sorry, you can prattle on about open mindedness and different opinions all you want. But you are not only not being open minded or respectful of anyone yourself, but calling this game a POS is objectively, (yes, I said it, OBJECTIVELY) wrong. The only way you could hold that opinion is by being a Mortal Kombat "fan", who doesn't actually like playing Mortal Kombat.

In which case, it makes me wonder why anybody should listen to you anyway.

In the old timeline, they never said Ermac wasn't, actually.

Unless you count him meeting Shujinko while Shujinko was still young, I guess, but whether any of the training missions in Konquest actually happened is pretty dubious.

Mileena was flirty/slutty in Deception, MKSM, and Armageddon, but she wasn't childlike and simple-minded like she is now.

On topic: It seems to me that, with certain glaring exceptions (i.e. when Mileena was born), the MK9 storyline and the old canon could be meshed together to make one full storyline.

Example:
In MK3, it's stated that Kabal was a Black Dragon member in the past, and now "devotes his life to fighting injustice." What better way to fight injustice than to become a police officer?
It seems to me that the two storylines could mesh together without much issue:
1) Kabal leaves home to join the Black Dragon.
2) Gets tired of the BD's bullcrap and comes back home to fight the good fight, joins the Police force.
3) Gets partnered with Stryker and ultimately torched by Kintaro. Which references back to MK3 where he is a "survivor of a attack by Shao Kahn's extermination squads."
I saw that someone asked how someone in the Black Dragon could become a officer in the first place? My thinking is that a) the Special Forces didn't know of everyone in the Black Dragon (it's a super secret organization afterall), or b) his life as Kabal never crossed over with his real identity to have that on his record.

Sidenote:

I think it's funny that you're trying to apply rationality to other dimensions, planes of existence, and alternate universes. Otherwise known as Quantum Physics, where rationality gets thrown out the window, and literally anything can happen for no reason whatsoever.

Also, you're arguing the definition of a word. I understand that the English language changes and evolves over time, but just because you (or other people, even if they're journalists/professionals) use a word incorrectly over and over again, doesn't mean that it changes. It just means it's being used incorrectly a lot.

So...many...retcons!!!

The worst of all, imo, are the ones that are simply so unnecessary and stupid that they could have been easily avoided...but they still happened anyway.

Retcons in the MK9 story such as Mileena's origins and Kitana's are the worst. They are simply things that should not have happened because they didn't need to happen to make the story work...plus they just cheapened the characters (Shang Tsung is another great example).

A shame really, but, overall, I enjoyed my experience with MK9 despite some terrible story decisions.

ShadowPreacher

Tear soaked? Really? Really? Do you honestly think you matter that much? Oh, wait, of course you do. After all, you certainly wish to have your opinion not only heard but accepted as unequivocal fact. After all, surely the mighty ShadowPreacher is ALWAYS right. Right?


“First answer: wow dramatic much? The best MK game ever is "rape"? But enough of that, to me re-imagining and alt universe sound pretty much the same. Or put it this way, there are ways you can justify the new story and make it not totally wipe out the original timeline...or you can sit around and bitch about retcons. Obviously, you and I both made our choice. Also, at some point you have to look at the internal logic of the stories themselves and not what the creators say in interviews. Cause I've got a newsflash for you: the creators don't actually care nearly as much as the most psychotic fans do.”

Nope, we haven’t. Had you read past that, you would’ve seen that I actually liked your theory, just don’t accept it as straight fact. Sorry, I actually prefer to, oh what a concept, think for myself. Gosh. What a concept, eh? And you’re absolutely right, they don’t give a shit as much as “psychotic” fans do. By the way, if that was an attempt at an insult, concider the fact that you are on the exact same MK board. What the game did to the story is nothing short of rape. Reimagining and Alt universe are hardly, hardly the same thing. And MK9 is hardly the best game of the series, unless it’s the only one you’ve played. The fighting engine, perfect, the story, shit.

“If the One Being is all that ever existed and ever will, it's very concievable it exists outside of time itself. It wouldn't have to matter when Kahn merged all the realms, if the past, present and future themselves cease to exist. Poof indeed.”

OK, what one being are you referring to, because I’m referring to Raiden sending the message back to himself at the beginning of the tournament? Talking about psychotic rants much? Try making an argument that has some basis in the facts you’re stating. Just a tip for future reference.


“Who gives a shit? It's not like he just popped into existence during MK4 in the original timeline either. And in case it was too subtle for you, the whole reason he offers to ressurect Sindel and encourages Kahn to merge without winning an MK is because he's SETTING HIM UP TO FAIL. He wants the elder gods to take him out for breaking the rules so Shinnok can attack an Outworld without its Emperor.”

Interesting, possibly correct. But riddle me this, Shadow, at what point does the game say, even imply, that? In fact, Quan Chi said, in the actual game, that the earthrealm warriors souls were given to him as payment. Implies to me that he was paid by Kahn, and didn’t just volunteer his services out of the kindness of his demon heart. Would it bug him for Kahn to fail? Most likely not. Because the damage is done either way. Earthrealm is left with few defenders from the battle. Two realms for the price of one. Was that the reason he “offered” to resurrect Sindel? Makes perfect logical sense. My point was, and is, that he wasn’t/had nothing to do with MK1-3, and didn’t show up until the end of Sub Zero Origins, and MK4 in the official storyline. For those reasons, he HAD NO BUISNESS there. One more character brought in for no apparent reason.

“No, it's not. Because her team DIED. She didn't win, remember? Liu did. Sonya lost and her guys were executed. So what you're saying is Jax died, then magically resurrected to rescue Sonya in MK2. Brilliant.”

Correct! You got one right, good for you. Oh, wait, no you didn’t. I’m referring to the timing of appearances. Sonya didn’t win in the original, or this one for that matter. I’m talking about the fact that Jax being on the island would be acceptable because, according to the original timeline, her team was captured. In this new debacled timeline, her team obviously, wasn’t captured, only Jax. Just said that his appearance can be justified, story wise. The fact that he didn’t fight until the second tournament actually stayed with the original timeline, in a weird, twisted sort of way.


“As for Kitana and Mileena, if you really are a writer then you should know the saying about "show, don't tell". They could get away with that in the old format where we extrapolated little bits of info from text bios and endings, and build up a skeletal framework of what exactly was supposed to be happening. Now of course we have cinematic presentation with actual cutscenes and voice actors and the whole nine yards. In this format, it would be super lame for Kitana to already know about Mileena's origin and how Kahn killed her real father and just be waiting to switch sides. Picture someone playing this as their first MK game; it would come out of nowhere and they would be all "wait, WHAT?!" It works out much better when our protagonist finds out for herself, as we are playing as her. It's undeniably a big change and a retcon, but it was a necessary one.”

Yes, I really am a writer. Fan fiction and a few originals, about twenty screenplays to go with it. Some of my stories are better than others, and Millena’s story, for me, worked better in two. It would’ve been more intresting, to me, to see Kitana discover the truth about the sister that she had grown up with, and her family’s fate (Jarrod and Sindel), and seeing how the character deals with and comes to terms with that. What they did was wipe out Kitana and Mileena’s shared past, and settled for a few line cop out to explain it. Just my opinion, but I like character driven stories.

“Also, Mileena the "sex clown" debuted IN Deception so I don't get why everyone who hates her new personality wants it to go back to that game. It is the same as that game, and before that she had no personality. She was a complete blank and a few people here just read too many Malibu comics back in the day.”

Mileena the sex clown completely manages to destroy the character. In deception, she had sex clown personality, granted, but there was more there than just that. In this one she’s a sex clown with a child’s mentality. It takes her from a deadly assassin to a mindless sex toy. Works for the guys in the audience, not so much the fans of the character.

“And finally, SonyaBladeJunkie, calling this game a "jacked up POS'? I'm sorry, you can prattle on about open mindedness and different opinions all you want. But you are not only not being open minded or respectful of anyone yourself, but calling this game a POS is objectively, (yes, I said it, OBJECTIVELY) wrong. The only way you could hold that opinion is by being a Mortal Kombat "fan", who doesn't actually like playing Mortal Kombat.

In which case, it makes me wonder why anybody should listen to you anyway.”

At no time did I say you were not entitled to your opinion. But I also am entitled to my own, a fact you seem to forget when it suits you. I am being respectful. What I am not respectful of is your attempts to diminish others opinions. I do enjoy playing Mortal Kombat, but I enjoy the storyline a lot more. As my name implies, I play Sonya. If Sonya’s not playable, not interested. Period. Narrow minded view? Hell yes. And my right to have it. As for why anyone should listen to me. Why shouldn’t they? My opinions and view carry no more or less weight than your own. Again, goes back to that respect thing. I’m fully aware that my view isn’t the only one out there, and I can pretty much agree to disagree on most things. What I don’t do is slam others and expect them to swallow my opinions as fact. Listen to my voice, or don’t. Choice is yours, but I will not be silenced by anyone, least of all you.

Junkie:

"And MK9 is hardly the best game of the series, unless its the only one you've played. The fighting engine, perfect. The story, shit.:

Exactly. Now remind me again, which is more important in a FIGHTING game, the FIGHTING engine or the story? Like I said, you're one of the many MK "fans" on this board who don't actually care about *playing* MK.

And the story being shit is subjective. Lots of people enjoyed it, me being one of them. Yes it was full of flaws, retcons, and overall silliness....and so was the original timeline.

As for Jax, you're not understanding me. There is no way he could've been on the island for MK1 during the original timeline because he'd be DEAD. When Sonya was eliminated Shang had her captured teammates executed. Come on man this is like MK Lore 101 here.

"At what point does the game imply Quan Chi was setting Shao Kahn up?"

Um...it was the whole point of the third act. Quan plants the Sindel resurrection idea in his head to begin with. Kahn even suspects he's got an angle going ("that's a verrrry magnanimous offer, sorceror") but Emperor Dumbass goes for it anyway. Then after Kahn AND most of Earth's best warriors are all dead Quan and Shinnok even congratulate themselves for everything going to plan. If you can't pick up on this you must really need your hand held while understanding fiction, I'm sorry.

And of course being paid by Kahn wouldn't stop him from stabbing him in the back later. Playing both sides of a conflict is what this guy does, it's like his "thing". Remember how Scorpion got killed to begin with? Quan hired him and Sub-Zero for the same job! Conflict of interest is another day at the office for him.

Dear kabal-zero, games usually try to retain rationality no matter how far they go. Often you can meet this kind of discussions between gamers: "Why didn't [insert protagonist] burn his clothes after running through the bonfire?" to which the game's fan responds: "It's a game, not the real world!" While the latter is true, game developers commonly try to keep real life physics and logic in an otherwise fictional world.
Unless the difference between the game world and real world is obvious, that is, as in Super Mario Galaxy for instance. I was just indicating that there are numerous potential paradoxes in time travel. Besides, rationality does not get thrown out of the window in quantum physics in general.

I would like to think that MK/DC worked as some kind of a monstrous retcon based on MKII and MK3 though its most urgent title is 'cross-over'.
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Tomas Vrbada and Kuai Liang swapped positions in the cyber initiative.

Shadow:


OK, let me break this down to you once more. In Mortal Kombat One, Sonya’s team was captured. Since there’s no mention of this in 2011, we are left to assume she didn’t come with a team. Just her and Jax. Are you following me so far?

Let’s assume you are. There was enough of a mention in the original MK storyline to justify Jax being there, in the team’s place, during MK2011. Jax was not a part of the first tournament in any way, other than being there, in the 2011 storyline. One of the many storyline “changes” Jax wasn’t killed, but healed by Raiden. My point was, and still is, in plain English, Jax being on the island would have been justified and reasonable, sticking along Sonya’s original storyline. Her team was there, the CO was part of her team, Jax could’ve been there. Not that they didn’t do enough damage to her story. Was he there in the original? No. Could he have been there? It would’ve been reasonable. Either somewhere we’re getting our wires crossed, and you’re not understanding what I’m saying, or you understand perfectly, and feel like throwing insults around. Either way, hope this clears it up for you.

“Exactly. Now remind me again, which is more important in a FIGHTING game, the FIGHTING engine or the story? Like I said, you're one of the many MK "fans" on this board who don't actually care about *playing* MK.”

I play a lot of fighting games, although I tend to stay old school. New ones just don’t hold the nostalgia factor for me. The thing that has kept me hooked and coming back to MK, when the fighting engine was shit (See Deadly Alliance) is the story. It’s unique, in the fact that there is an actual story floating around it for each of the characters, with their own mystique and back story. MK2011 wiped that out by trying to roll three games worth of story into one package that destroyed a lot of the characters. Raiden goes from being thunder god to moron of the week, for instance. Shang goes from being evil sorcerer hell bent on taking over earthrealm to depressed, suicidal entity. Sonya goes from being intelligent, tough special forces officer to being essentially, and this kills me to say, Kano’s patsy. There are a billion and one fighting games. What makes MK unique is the story. Destroy that, and you’ve got “Just another fighting game”. Killer engine or not, it’s still shit without the story.

And, by the way, the fact that I’m into both the storyline and the gameplay by no means makes me less of a fan than you. In fact, it may actually make more of a fan. By your admission, the fighting engine is all that matters to you. They plug the same fighting engine into, say, DOA, and you’d be just as happy. Again, by your own words. Don’t perceive yourself as more of a fan than anyone else on here. Call me a perfectionist. Call me unreasonable, but what’s so hard about having a reboot that stays reasonable to the original story and give it the killer fighting engine? Gosh, I’m completely unreasonable, huh? LOL

Again, as far as Quan Chi, he had no business there in the first place. No reason or need for a handheld when the dude had no business there in the first place. If it’s a reboot of one to three, as it’s supposed to be, and Quan wasn’t officially introed until four, what business did he have there other than to muddle up an already jacked up storyline? He had no business there.


About as much as that does.

By "not accounted for" I meant hadn't been mentioned yet in this thread



Well, Jarek's bio for Armageddon stated that Jax had tossed him off of a cliff (Jax's MK4 ending) but he jammed his sword into the wall to save himself. Then again, for that to have happened, Sonya would have had to go over the cliff first, and they never did say anything about that afterward....

What I'm saying is that since none of Sonya, Jax, and Jarek's MK4 endings were ever said to be canon, then Jarek's MKA bio was the first and only time "what happened to Jarek in MK4" was ever mentioned canonically. It does reference Jax's MK4 ending, but like you said, Sonya never went off the cliff too, so it's still not actually saying that ending was canon.
So his MKA bio isn't a retcon of anything because there was nothing to retcon.