Saving the Special Forces
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posted10/31/2010 12:57 AM (UTC)by
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MoodyShooter
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10/03/2003 08:04 PM (UTC)
I must admit that as a US Army soldier I'm always a bit dismayed and even pissed off by how the Special Forces/OIA characters are portrayed in MK. They're unprofessional in how they look, act, and operate. They're jokes, clowns. They're inept and honestly some of the most uninspiring characters in MK in my opinion and it really doesn't have to be that way. Something needs to be done to save these characters and it has to be done stat.

The biggest problem stems from the two original and current leads of the SF/OIA: Sonya and Jax. These two characters look and act like Jersey Shore rejects with a hard on for the military. Their clothes and gear rarely if ever make sense. Their attitudes and character traits are shallow and insulting. Between Sonya and her fetish for spandex, skin tight leather, and visible thongs to Jax and his blacksploitation insanity...they need help.

Lets get to the heart of the matter here. To be SF or in any elite organization than you need to actually be good enough to be there. As leaders Sonya and Jax should be intelligent, resourceful, as well as tough. They should not be what they currently are which is careless, one-track-minded, and inept. They need a healthy dose of seriousness to their concepts and attitudes and perhaps they might start resounding with people a bit more.

Also as part of an elite group that represents the US government they need to LOOK THE PART. Not only do they not have any standarized (not even a tiny bit) look, nothing they wear makes sense. Give them gear and equipment that not only makes them look professional but also would be functional and useful. Stuff like load bearing equipment, commo gear...hell even body armor.

When Stryker looks more badass and more logical than you, you KNOW you have a fucking problem.

Check it out people even though uniformity is an important thing individuality is also important. Being special forces they can wear and use whatever they want as long as it's within reason. Other games have been making kick-ass military-esque characters that look unique to one another for a long time. Ghost Recon, F.E.A.R., Resident Evil, etc. all have great concepts and honestly MK needs to take notice. Here are some examples.

Resident Evil - RE has been doing good tactical looking characters for a long time. This stems from the old STARS characters to the new BSAA based characters from RE5. Behold.










F.E.A.R. - The F.E.A.R. games have been pretty good with this stuff too. Ranging from the First Encounter Assault Recon teams to their take on SFOD-D (Delta Force) they have it right. I would also make special note that Lt. Kiera Stokes from F.E.A.R. 2 is a perfect example of a very cute female operator appearance in regards to a possible Sonya Blade look.





Ghost Recon - Finally we have Ghost Recon which honestly has a realistic and more traditional approach to characters. In addition to the traditional male characters I'm including pictures of Sgt. Nick Salvatore and of SSgts Alicia Diaz and Jennifer Burke as examples of more open ended and unique designs.






Ok...so after you've seen all that let's compare them with these clowns.




Does the argument make sense? It should...and for all you that will inevitably make comments about using firearms in MK...just realize that characters have been using guns in MK since MK3. Hell Jax has been using one since MKDA. Give them weapons! If for nothing else other than for looks.

Well, I'm done ranting. Let me know what you think. smile
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MKSquad
10/29/2010 05:00 AM (UTC)
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It's just a video game sir,inhale and exhale.
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ReptileFinally
10/29/2010 05:01 AM (UTC)
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No weapons. Maybe Stryker but that's it.
And yes maybe it would be cool if they looked different but hey.. it's mortal kombat
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Scorpion2448
10/29/2010 05:07 AM (UTC)
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And I'm sure real life ninjas are furious over Sub-Zero's freezing abilities and Scorpion's fire powers. It's a video game - characters are often super-enhanced and far from realistic. Stryker is the only "somewhat realistic" character the series offers IMO, but he's just a weird lookin' cop.
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MoodyShooter
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10/29/2010 05:09 AM (UTC)
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ReptileFinally Wrote:
No weapons. Maybe Stryker but that's it.
And yes maybe it would be cool if they looked different but hey.. it's mortal kombat

EDIT: sorry for the double post im on my phone



Jax has been using firearms since DA. One of his fatalities in MK Vs. DCU incorporated a firearm. The Joker and Deathstroke used firearms in their fatalities too. Stryker's been using one since MK3 as well as grenades. Sektor shoots fucking missles and Cyrax has bombs.

Why no weapons exactly then?
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razz2d2
10/29/2010 05:16 AM (UTC)
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jax and subway...
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JADEdSCORPION
10/29/2010 05:23 AM (UTC)
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razz2d2 Wrote:
jax and subway...


Fuck. Yes. Beyond that though...it's a videogame. LOL. It's a world where a reptilian man can spit acid down someone's throat and poke someone in the eyes deep into their skull without them dieing. And who wants to wear that hot, heavy equipment when you're fighting an opponent probably twice as agile as you. :p
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queve
10/29/2010 05:24 AM (UTC)
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Sonya tracked, found, brought down, and destroyed the whole Tekunin Warship and temporarily defeated Sektor (among tons of other stuff, but that is her latest act)...

Calling her and Jax "inept, careless, clows, and one-track-minded" because they don't suit your fashion taste/perspective when they've both proven to be quite the "intelligent, resourceful, as well as tough" heroes and soldiers is not fair and doesn't make sense.

Sure, they don't dress as your traditional (and "accurate") Special Forces Army kids, but, that doesn't make them retarded and it doesn't erase any of what they've accomplished. I'm sorry but that's just stupid.

However, I do see, understand, and appreciate your points and views regarding your perspective and vision of them as "more realistic Special Forces agents/army soldiers", so, I'll definitely be returning to this thread to make a more elaborated post on the matter. While I disagree with most of your post, I'm not saying you are 100% wrong.

All I can say for know is that it it's mainly about personal preference. I for one am very happy with their unique personalities and not 100% realistic designs. I have nothing against any of those pictures you posted, but, I'm honestly glad that neither Jax or Sonya look exactly like that. Quite frankly those very realistic army costumes are super boring with the exception of 1 or 2. Super. Boring.
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MoodyShooter
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10/29/2010 05:46 AM (UTC)
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queve Wrote:


Sonya and her team were captured in MK1 because they were, in fact, short sighted and one-track-minded on finishing the Black Dragon. The SF were so fixated on the Black Dragon (which they never defeated) that they apparently weren't tracking the Red Dragon to any great extent even though they were always the more serious threat. They let loose Kenshi and Cyrax into Outworld without backup or support which almost get Kenshi killed and almost fucked Cyrax. They then went into battle against Quan Chi and Shang Tsung and their army knowing it was serious shit but chose to just use only Sonya and Jax to take them on...getting killed and then resurrected for evil purposes in the process.

On the flip side they (as in Sonya and Jax) made the right call regarding the events of MK3 even though nobody listened, they did almost get rid of the BD and the Tekunin, and they helped against Shinnok.

That's a bad record overall for a group that has more than four people along with the backing of the US government. Though it seems to be more recent games they've been acting screwy.

Again, they need an injection of seriousness. The SF/OIA can be a lot more than what they currently are. I'm advocating for them actually. They should be the badasses they really are.

Whatever I guess I'm in the minority here surprisingly. I guess it's a strange concept for military based characters to look and act the part. Alright, carry on.
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MK_Fanatic_
10/29/2010 05:49 AM (UTC)
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Jax and Sonya deserve to be in the special forces, sir. They can shoot fireballs and survive multiple invasions against supernatural forces of evil... they were even "chosen ones" in MK3, so their souls were protected by Raiden...

Everyone else in the world was destroyed. No traditional army soldiers or special forces were spared by Raiden...

I see where you're coming from, but Jax and Sonya don't need weapons. Most people hate Jax's machinegun. We didn't see him use it during the gametrailers video neither.

Btw, this is probably the BEST Jax I have seen out of the last four games.
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JAX007
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10/29/2010 06:01 AM (UTC)
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I think the heavy bullet proof gear would look a bit out of place in a Martial Arts tournament. I mean they have special powers, no need for guns.
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MoodyShooter
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10/29/2010 06:09 AM (UTC)
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JAX007 Wrote:
I think the heavy bullet proof gear would look a bit out of place in a Martial Arts tournament. I mean they have special powers, no need for guns.


I would submit that there hasn't been a martial arts tournament since MK2, but during that time period I would agree. Well, since Jax has been shown let's shift a bit.

What do you guys think of the new Jax? What would you improve/change about him based on what you've seen?
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razz2d2
10/29/2010 06:16 AM (UTC)
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lol you sure gotta knack for timing...
talking about jax right before he was confirmed, thats like one of those ESP marketing skills.
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Leo
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10/29/2010 07:51 AM (UTC)
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If you ask me, those "realistic" designs are extremely boring, especially given the "realm" of Mortal Kombat, where everything is exaggerated and supernatural. While I haven't always been happy with Sonya and Jax's designs, I think MKDC Sonya is near perfect, and so is MK2011 Jax (at least from the screencaps I've seen). No need to dress them in bland outfits with 0 palette creativity for the sake of realism. They'd just look like moss-green and jet-black blobs jumping around. Not to mention the extremely heavy gear in some of those pics. I'm sure all that junk is very useful when all you're doing is shooting heads, but talk about setting yourself up for failure in a hand-to-hand scuffle.

I also think you're reading too much into the writing team's ideas for the sake of drawing out faux-evidence that the Special Forces leaders ride the short spaceship to HQ. While I agree that they (especially Sonya) are brash and hot-headed, they are far from incompetent, much less "jokes". Queve brings up a good point. Sonya's involvement in the MKA story shows a lot of efficiency, IMO. However, I will admit interest in seeing them show a bit more formality in the way they act. Very slightly, however. I don't want them to become by-the-book drones. I happen to love Sonya's hot-headedness and in-your-face attitude, and would hate to see her become completely self-composed and tactical, losing so much of her charm (again, for the sake of realism, because "that's what a Special Forces leader would do").
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RazorsEdge701
10/29/2010 08:56 AM (UTC)
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Fatigues look bulky and boring and Mortal Kombat is set in a fictional universe where the U.S. Special Forces is an organization that functions more like G.I. Joe in the cartoon/comics than real world Green Berets. Do you also complain about the monks in this completely made up setting that isn't like the real world worshiping the Elder Gods instead of Buddhism? Or, y'know, magical superpowers and alternate dimensions full of dragons and vampires existing?

And let's not forget, before you go bashing character's personalities and intelligence without presenting any actual argument to back up that claim, that Jax INVENTED his arms, was the first guy in history to discover how to open portals with actual technology, not magic, and partially reversed Cyrax's automation.

That makes him the world leader in the fields of both robotics AND theoretical/quantum physics.

And then there's the fact that even before the arms, he was literally "the strongest man in the world", a human being who, with no training in the far east with shaolin monks or anything, and knowing nothing about and not believing in magic, trained his body so hard that he developed chi powers.

One wonders what someone with that skillset is even doing in the armed forces. That is so far above and beyond, it's like a NASA engineer working as a gym teacher in an elementary school.
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Chrome
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10/29/2010 10:28 AM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:

And let's not forget, before you go bashing character's personalities and intelligence without presenting any actual argument to back up that claim, that Jax INVENTED his arms, was the first guy in history to discover how to open portals with actual technology, not magic, and partially reversed Cyrax's automation.



Is this explicitly stated somewhere? As I recall he outfits himself with indestructible bioniv implants. There is no part in the phrase that implies that he invented them, only that he was the one that commisioned/more probably put them on. Still not an everyday achievement, unless the implants are quite mundane to put on/take off.


Also on a sidenote, you should know that the difference between modern ballistic armor and body armor is quite large. Kevlar doesn't really protect you from warhammer or sword blows the same way as it does from bullets.
I.e.: ballistic armor is basically useless for example against renaissance longsword thrusts.
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RazorsEdge701
10/29/2010 10:52 AM (UTC)
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The fact that the only two people in the room are Sonya and Jax and Jax is the one giving the orders, when Cyrax is restored in his MK Gold ending, establishes Jax's expertise in robotics and suggests that he was the one who made his own arms.

His MK3 ending directly states he was the team leader on the "building the techno-portal" project and he is depicted as the one who knows how it runs and can fix it when it malfunctions in MKvsDCU.

I'm sure he has assistant and underling NPCs that we don't usually see working under him, but for all intents and purposes, he is consistently depicted as the lead "science guy" of the MK universe.

I suppose Sektor would know more about cybernetics than he does in the end (and Sektor is a cheater with an actual computer brain and all the processing speed and info storage space that entails, mind you), but still, quantum physics and science portals, that's a big one. Being an expert in two unrelated fields like that doesn't happen in real life either. That's a Reed Richards sorta thing.
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Mick-Lucifer
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10/29/2010 11:48 AM (UTC)
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Oh lord... Talk about adding "fanfic-y stuff"!
NPCs that aren't responsible for all the technology. Yeah, that's the path of least logical resistance...


Great thread. A little grounding would go a long way to lending MK some of the credibility it's surrendered from it's fiction over the years. Great timing creating the thread. Here's hoping the new Jax has at least some of the grounding that other series have taken on, without losing the penache of the fiction. The design is certainly a step up from early nineties work-out spandex!

Probably don't need Jax to actually suddenly become a master of the sciences, though, even if the MK team isn't up to filling a room with rendered models... Good grief.
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S0nofKrypton
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10/29/2010 12:45 PM (UTC)
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damn....well, i do admit that do you make a nice point. i would love Sonya to look somewhat similar to this:



maybe the guys at netherrealm studios could take a few tips. on a side note, thank you for that Rebecca picture. she's so cute! grin
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EndoScorpion
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10/29/2010 12:51 PM (UTC)
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I've never really liked the personality or visual design of either of the characters discussed in this thread, but not because they don't look / act like they are in the service, but because they are simply just visually unpleasing and have overly-stereotypical personalities that are so annoying.

Yeah I would like to see them both in more military-based costumes, but not the heavier stuff. They only need very light fitting gear - not the full-on heavy armour that everyone is referring to.

I really would like to see both a re-design in visuals, and some character development for both Sonya and Jax, because they have never really been interesting in any way, shape or form to me.

I haven't seen the GT episode yet, so will check back in here with my opinion on Jax's new look once i have.
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Chrome
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10/29/2010 02:49 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
The fact that the only two people in the room are Sonya and Jax and Jax is the one giving the orders, when Cyrax is restored in his MK Gold ending, establishes Jax's expertise in robotics and suggests that he was the one who made his own arms.

His MK3 ending directly states he was the team leader on the "building the techno-portal" project and he is depicted as the one who knows how it runs and can fix it when it malfunctions in MKvsDCU.

I'm sure he has assistant and underling NPCs that we don't usually see working under him, but for all intents and purposes, he is consistently depicted as the lead "science guy" of the MK universe.


I suppose Sektor would know more about cybernetics than he does in the end (and Sektor is a cheater with an actual computer brain and all the processing speed and info storage space that entails, mind you), but still, quantum physics and science portals, that's a big one. Being an expert in two unrelated fields like that doesn't happen in real life either. That's a Reed Richards sorta thing.


This will be tasteless..

So it is like Stephen Hawkings has gone black, done steroids and converted his chair into arm implants. I am so much more Pro Jax right now....
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Mick-Lucifer
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10/29/2010 02:51 PM (UTC)
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Chrome Wrote:
This will be tasteless..

So it is like Stephen Hawkings has gone black, done steroids and converted his chair into arm implants. I am so much more Pro Jax right now....

"Professor Jax" is definitely more realistic, gritty, and mature.
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queve
10/29/2010 02:56 PM (UTC)
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The_Truth Wrote:


...


Wooooah! You are definitely taking things way too far!

Why not just have Sonya and Jax call up the entire US Military Forces + gather and group army organizations from around the entire world and send them with their high tech deadly mega weapons to easily kill every single living threat outside of Earth?

That'd conclude the story in the blink of an eye.

I'm sure a couple of nuclear bombs can put an end to Shang Tsung's silly tournament, or Shao Kahn's quarters, and even annihilate the entire Tarkatan and Shokan race.

I'm sure that if they have thousands of soldiers and a huge massive army of Military fighting with guns and high tech weapons everything would be 110% easier against the bad guys and it would conclude the story 120% faster.

Come on man, that's when i have to say: It's a videogame...fictional. What you imply isn't really fair at all.

BUT, I still appreciate and understand your views regarding their costumes and designs, even if I don't entirely agree.
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Zentile
10/29/2010 03:32 PM (UTC)
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I know Queve would get all pissed off at this.


The point is valid, I do wish MK looked darker and more realistic. But on the flipside, it's not fair at all to call the clowns. Yeah, I hate the characters, but they're not exactly useless clowns in the storyline at all.

BUT ON THE REVERSE FLIPSIDE, it takes a lot of assuming to believe Jax invented his own arms. I've seen all the bios and endings and have never EVER thought for a split second that Jax made his arms. He didn't. And I'm thinking he had his little team researching the portal stuff. He doesn't come across as a guy who studied physics. Maybe a little bit of mechanics, robotics and other scientificky stuff, but just because he's been to Outworld doesn't make him some sort of expert on portal opening.


Well anyway, yeah I do wish they looked more professional and realistic. That's one of the reasons I like the MK vs DC Jax design so much, it's a huge improvement over Ghetto Jax, Pink spandex Jax or MKDA Jax.

A balanced look would be the best way to go.
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EndoScorpion
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10/29/2010 03:37 PM (UTC)
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Nothing new or interesting as far as Jax is concerned in my opinion. Hopefully things will be difference regarding Sonya when they reveal her.

One thing that really bugs me about Jax is he's always topless! Put a fucking shirt on or something!!

Zentile Wrote:
The point is valid, I do wish MK looked darker and more realistic. But on the flipside, it's not fair at all to call the clowns. Yeah, I hate the characters, but they're not exactly useless clowns in the storyline at all.


They should add a clown character! It would make the game a hell of a lot darker and scary (I hate clowns - they freak me out)!
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