Weapon health?
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posted09/10/2005 04:43 PM (UTC)by
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mexicanoslasher
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09/03/2005 05:22 PM (UTC)
Wouldn't it be something if you blocked so much that your sword or what ever snapped and you were stuck with hand to hand kombat? I saw that on one of the mkda promos and got the idea!
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LinkSkywalker
09/05/2005 09:31 PM (UTC)
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Yeah,that would be cool,although it may pee you off sometimes
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mexicanoslasher
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09/05/2005 09:46 PM (UTC)
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naa, it would just add more excitement to the fights!!!
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Chrome
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09/05/2005 09:49 PM (UTC)
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Would be stupid. Real weapons don't break rom constant blocking but they can loose their edges if it's a bladed weapon where you use the blade for parrying and fencing.

To break a weapon -for instance a katana (what is highly breakable unlike popular beliefs though it endures beyond mind)- you have to use a wea-pon capable of doing so: like bearded axes, military picks, or something that has enough striking power to simply render it broken, like claymores or war maces and mallets.

a katana is fast, no doubt, all weapons are, and who tries to block a mace with the blade..well, I ask how did such an idiot make it to MK? The best part in MKDA was when Raidens staff held off Tsung's Straight "Jian" Sword and Quan Chi's broadswords. Pure idiocy, though if the strike is improper, it could get stuck in the staff if it's hard enough.
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mexicanoslasher
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09/05/2005 10:11 PM (UTC)
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i don't wanna be rude or anything, but this is video games! anything can happen, shoot, scorpion makes flames come out of the ground and sub-zero can freeze people with out causing mental problems!
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Baraka407
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09/06/2005 03:23 AM (UTC)
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I like the idea of weapon breaks. It was done way back in the day for Soul Calibur's prequel, Soul Blade. If you blocked too much, a gauge depleted and when it was empty, you had to fight with your hands while the other character had a weapon. Now, in a weapon-based fighter, needless to say, that left your character at a huge disadvantage. But I think that it would be a good idea. It would discourage turtling, where your opponent just sits and blocks the whole time.

However, in order for your idea to work, I think you'd almost have to have some alternate forms of blocking. Dodges, parries and reversals would add alot to a system that penalizes for regular blocking, and a system that has all of these would reward players who really wish to learn the system. Of course, these ideas aren't necessarily new, as many gamse have been using all three for some time now. But giving the player the incentive to use them, because regular blocking has a negative consequence now, well, I think that's a great idea and something I'm not sure has been done before.

Thoughts anyone?
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EmberJoe
09/09/2005 03:04 PM (UTC)
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I think all weapons should have different strength and toughness, which would determine how easilythey are broken, and how easily they break other weapons.

I would also like some characters to have the ability to disarm others, sai, infact, are excellent weapons for disarming. Another cool idea would be for some characters to have backups, or something. Sub-Zero could have a kitana sheath, that he can hold his hand over, and fill with ice, to create a weak makeshift ice kitana, good for attacking but useless with blocks. However, if it broke, he could just make another.
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Chrome
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09/09/2005 03:19 PM (UTC)
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Weapons can berak, but not from overusage. When i played Soul Balde I immediatl;y discarded th game after I saw weapons that could kill by two or three swings, but could be broken almost instantly. Dumb.

There should be manouvers to break the opponents weapon if it's appliable. Weapons don't break from usage from one fight.
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MolochMonsta
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out of ninjas, cyborg thugs, evil ninja robots, martial artists, martial artists with sharp hats, princesses, bodyguards with more than 4 limbs, undead movie stars, native american shamans, evil emporrers, gods and secret service agents, you say Stryker didn't fit in MK3?

09/09/2005 09:04 PM (UTC)
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you forget that these are not normal warriors that are using the weapons that don't usually break after one fight. these are the greatest fighters from all the realms. they could probably benchpress bulldozers! also these guys are such trained warriors that they know the weak spot of a weapon, where to hit where it hurts, how to hold back the most damge when you block, etc.
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Chrome
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09/09/2005 09:25 PM (UTC)
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MolochMonsta Wrote:
you forget that these are not normal warriors that are using the weapons that don't usually break after one fight. these are the greatest fighters from all the realms. they could probably benchpress bulldozers! also these guys are such trained warriors that they know the weak spot of a weapon, where to hit where it hurts, how to hold back the most damge when you block, etc.


There are no things that usually don't break after a fight. Only mass manufactured weapons in medieval times and bronze weapons are prone to fracture after serious hits.

save for the exception of shokans centaurs and Oni's, none of them could press a dozer. and that kind of strenght wouldn't apply to bend a weapon. To break, thats even less of a question.

"also these guys are such trained warriors that they know the weak spot of a weapon," -no. there is no weak point in a weapon. Either you know what to use to grab a specific point to break the blade, handle, or even the hilt or not. there is no weak point, but the knowledge of a weapon capable of breaking the opposing weapon.

"how to hold back the most damge when you block" -most weapons are not meant to block (fine example, kamas are rather grabbers, claymores, greater swords, maces, theese are completely useless for blocking)

Oh, and there is no traditional ninja sword. There never was or will be.



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MolochMonsta
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out of ninjas, cyborg thugs, evil ninja robots, martial artists, martial artists with sharp hats, princesses, bodyguards with more than 4 limbs, undead movie stars, native american shamans, evil emporrers, gods and secret service agents, you say Stryker didn't fit in MK3?

09/09/2005 10:57 PM (UTC)
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Chrome Wrote:
MolochMonsta Wrote:
you forget that these are not normal warriors that are using the weapons that don't usually break after one fight. these are the greatest fighters from all the realms. they could probably benchpress bulldozers! also these guys are such trained warriors that they know the weak spot of a weapon, where to hit where it hurts, how to hold back the most damge when you block, etc.


There are no things that usually don't break after a fight. Only mass manufactured weapons in medieval times and bronze weapons are prone to fracture after serious hits.

save for the exception of shokans centaurs and Oni's, none of them could press a dozer. and that kind of strenght wouldn't apply to bend a weapon. To break, thats even less of a question.

"also these guys are such trained warriors that they know the weak spot of a weapon," -no. there is no weak point in a weapon. Either you know what to use to grab a specific point to break the blade, handle, or even the hilt or not. there is no weak point, but the knowledge of a weapon capable of breaking the opposing weapon.

"how to hold back the most damge when you block" -most weapons are not meant to block (fine example, kamas are rather grabbers, claymores, greater swords, maces, theese are completely useless for blocking)

Oh, and there is no traditional ninja sword. There never was or will be.



there is a weak spot in every weapon, you just have to find it. such as: a katana's weak spot is at the middle and at the base near the hilt (on it's sides, of course). if one could stomp on it during a low swing and stomp with the other foot at the base or middle of the blade with enough force, it would snap like a twig. for a katana to hold back force from a blow, you would hold your hand to the back of the end of the blade and hold the sword side ways (or perpendicular to the swing). the katana's arc-like structure would resist impact.

while a greatsword may be impossible to break by hand or weapon, it also requires much momentum to do damage; all you'd need to do is dodge sideways on a verticle swing. it hits the ground and breaks (or gets stuck. depends on where you're fighting)

I never said there was a ninja sword
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EmberJoe
09/10/2005 03:44 PM (UTC)
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"""Oh, and there is no traditional ninja sword. There never was or will be. """

Ninjas traditional were peasants. They tended to use weapons that they could use excuses for having, such as farm tools that doubled as weapons. However, some DID use swords, which were almost always broken, discarded kitana, that were then recycled into smaller weapons similar to kitana, hence the myth that ninjas tradionally used kitana. These swords did have a name, but that name escapes me at the moment. So technicaly THOSE swords are 'ninja swords' like how a kitana is a 'samurai sword'.
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Chrome
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09/10/2005 04:43 PM (UTC)
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Allright, the katanas near-hilt area is prone to fracture when force is appli-ed on that particular surface. That doesn't count as a actual break point since I was referring to precise fracture designs in a weapon. A katanas near-hilt area is always more colder and hardened (I don't think it's fitting, but it's the most "less-agile" area of the baldes design) due to the carbon inside the steel. Certain areas are weak spots, but no actual break point is appliable to swrods. For example:

greatswords were often missing the blood channels on the weapon, be-ing replaced with a reinforcing side-stripe "bumping out" of the atual blade. This ensured that the 1,5 -2,2 meter long blade would not bend over and give additional stability to trike through unflexible steel plates.

The claymore (the hungarian equivalent is called two handed pallos, pronounced two handed Pallosh) has a slightly curved handle, but has the straight, slightly shortrer blade -mine is around 170 cm. This weapon can be swung constantly in an 8 shaped way like normal scottish claymores, french and elnglish greatswords and swiss flamberges. The common misconception is that theese weapons were slow. Yes, they were slower, but I can still maintain a fast pace with them if no unflexible full body armor is worn (meaning 3 swings/ 2 seconds at best). It exhaust faaster, but it is not actually slower.

The weak point of theese weapons is their actual stability and near invulnerability towards bearded axes, voulges, modified spetums or anything capable for disarming or weapon-breaking in close to long distanced combat. While completely strong and well maintained as two handed infantry weapons, no additional hand protection is available (shields, bracers, bucklers) and they tire you fast. With the reinforced strenght comes weight, and with weight, deformation of the edge, since theese weapons are emant to strike through moderate defense, but not actual heavy armor (for those are the heavy and edged mace, or warpick)

Conclusion: damage prone areas exist in weapons, but the defined weak point is only a myth of inept observation what we all love to hear. Corerct me with any news you may find, since I only gotten into weapon smitthing techniques and armsmastery. Thanks in advance.

Oh, about the ninja/shinobi-to: it doesn't actually exist as a form or design. Every scavenged weapon the ninja gthered had their own shape depen-ding upon damage. MOst nijas were carrying katanas for their realtively shortnes compared to a tachi and light weight, while maintaining a long bladed weapon.
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