Suggestions for sound in the next MK
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posted03/10/2007 11:13 AM (UTC)by
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MethMaker
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02/29/2004 09:15 PM (UTC)
Since the stated plans for the graphical production for the next MK are to be more gritty, a sound overhaul would greatly add to the effect.

Mk has long fascinated me due to its eeriness and mythical qualities, even though much of its sounds are downright whimsical at times. Most projectiles are supernaturally produced, and the sounds should present them as such, have greater detail, depth and dimension, or even silence (I'm thinking of Noob here).
With regards to strikes, characters should make different noises depending on the placement of the strike and the strength (a jab kick to the shin, for instance, should have less of a prominent sound to a kick to the face or punch to the chest). Even the execution of some strikes should have some sounds/grunts (one of the things I liked about the run feature in MK3/T). Throws should sound more tied in to the environment--depending on the surface, the landing of a body from a throw will sound different. The sound of all of these should help clearly define each character as an individual--separating them, personality-wise instead of being, more or less, on the whole, homogenous. I would like individual sounds for each character to come up now and then, that aren't shared by any other character, displaying that character's personality/resolve. For instance, after a knockdown or getting busted with a combo, Sub-Zero may make a seething sound and blow a little more steam, Johnny Cage might quickly get back up and shake his head, Baraka might make some sort of growl, Scorpion might make a short, quick laugh under his breath, etc--by this I don't mean so far as to make them "taunts" but merely individual idiosyncracies that don't effect the flow of the fight.

The stages, being of different areas/types, should have a different sound to the fighting action. In a temple/cathedral setting, there may be a greater reverb than something in a forest. In the desert, steps or jumps might evoke a sound of the shifting of sand. The choice of sounds is virtually endless, but the use of a number of them will help individualize each stage, beyond visual gimmickry.

Although it might be difficult, the music could reflect the stage of the fight. This can be done by making the audio not as a single file, but as several files layered to play simultaneously, with one instrument per track, like in midi. Strings such as the koto or shamisen could feature prominently in the opening stages of a fight, enhanced with ambient sounds, but as the health lowers, the drum track (which might be muted at the start) can be given more prominence to reflect the more frenetic, dangerous turn of the bout--a realtime equalizer, more or less, reflecting the progress. Other layers could be added so that there can be dissonance at the end, etc. Additional, more problematic possibilities include the shifting of tempo due to the flow of the fight--if two turtlers are playing, then the music will be unbearably slow--if two aggressive, fluent players are battling, the music can get extremely fast and adrenaline-drenched.

These are just a few primitive thoughts--the general idea being that a greater detail, greater personalization, greater context of setting, will help define the characters and the setting more, bringing the player into the action more with more of his senses, and help get across the mood of the game better.
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MoodyShooter
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Dedicated, hopeless...Li Mei fan.

03/05/2007 10:53 PM (UTC)
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Yeah, I fucking hate that when they have multiple characters sharing one voice. I've hated it since MK1. Li Mei for instance never had a game where she had a totally unique voice. In DA she shared it with Nitara. In Deception she shared it with Jade. In Armageddon she shared it with Sonya.

It's freaking stupid that they can't put in enough effort into voices. If you're THAT busted for money and time that you can't hire top quality VAs (or use anyone from the development team) to do voice work then have one actor do multiple voices.

Seriously, since there aren't very many speaking parts in MK (aside from Konquest which should be done away with) so you don't need uber quality actors. Anybody can scream and grunt. You could probably spend 15 to 30 minutes in a booth and get everything that you need and then some.
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Sub-Frost055
03/06/2007 12:04 AM (UTC)
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I would have never thought you guys were so serious about the sounds. I don't think it's a problem though.
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Ninja_Mime
03/06/2007 03:35 AM (UTC)
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I love the soundcalls that we have now. The voice actors do a terrific job. It would be nice if everyone had their own voice for MK8, yes, but it's not that big of a deal.
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MoodyShooter
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03/06/2007 04:15 AM (UTC)
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It really doesn't bother anybody else?

Having unique voice tracks for the characters is just one of those things that gives them individuality. Yeah you've got an awesome looking and unique character but that unique-ness fades when two or three other characters use the same voice. Not only that but the voice sometimes doesn't fit the character.

To be honest voices are pretty far down on my complaint list (having gameplay that isn't broken as shit is at the top) but still. It's an immersion thing. MK is pretty much the only modern fighting game I can think of that doesn't have unique voices for all of their characters. I mean shit, VF has a notorious reputation for having shallow characters in terms of individuality and personality. Even so they still manage to find the time to give every character a unique voice.

Could you imagine your other favorite fighting games ever having new characters with the same voice? Let alone changing the shared/generic voice each progressive game?

I don't know how or why MK gets away with it personally.

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Kcalypso
03/06/2007 09:13 AM (UTC)
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I 100% agree, its the small things that make a character unique. And having reall unique characters is one of the small things that gives you a more enjoyable playing expereince
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kingjolly
03/06/2007 09:58 AM (UTC)
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It bothers me that ppl share the same voice. Other fighters have unique voices for each character...why can't mk?
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Ninja_Mime
03/06/2007 02:07 PM (UTC)
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The_Truth Wrote:
It really doesn't bother anybody else?

Having unique voice tracks for the characters is just one of those things that gives them individuality. Yeah you've got an awesome looking and unique character but that unique-ness fades when two or three other characters use the same voice. Not only that but the voice sometimes doesn't fit the character.

To be honest voices are pretty far down on my complaint list (having gameplay that isn't broken as shit is at the top) but still. It's an immersion thing. MK is pretty much the only modern fighting game I can think of that doesn't have unique voices for all of their characters. I mean shit, VF has a notorious reputation for having shallow characters in terms of individuality and personality. Even so they still manage to find the time to give every character a unique voice.

Could you imagine your other favorite fighting games ever having new characters with the same voice? Let alone changing the shared/generic voice each progressive game?

I don't know how or why MK gets away with it personally.



There are several characters with unique voices. Stryker, Mileena, Sheeva, Goro, Kahn, Jarek, Raiden, etc. And that's fine for now.

MK8 should have all unique voices, though.
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JaredJayrod
03/06/2007 07:29 PM (UTC)
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The_Truth speaks the truth.
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Skaven13
03/07/2007 05:09 PM (UTC)
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You're certainly not alone in this Truth. This has been a pet peeve of mine for a LONG time. They did a little better with Deception. Tanya in particular had a very unique voice that seemed to fit her character. The thing that REALLY ticked me off was that characters shared voices, even phrases, for SPECIAL MOVES (Nightwolf calling lightning and Havik corpse slide is just one example). Sharing general voices is one thing, but sharing entire phrases for specific special moves is....unexcusable to me.
I don't really count Armageddon, just because of the size of it (although I am sad Tanya lost her guyish voice...).
Another big drawing factor for me in MK games is sound and music. I LOVED Deceptions music, the mood it invoked just enhanced the graphics and the playability for me. Armageddon came along, and IMO it has the worst MK music to date. The new guy (cannot remember his name, the one that did that horrid Bell Tower tune who decided "drums are all that is needed!" and who had the bright idea to incorporate orchestra style music into MK) really botched it IMO. Sorry, but that was some horrid MK music. It did not fit the mood of the arenas at all, or invoke any type of MK mood at all. I understand the idea of making some arenas and battles sound "final" by adding symphony "gladiator-type" sound to it, but it just does not work for MK. MK music is mystifying, rough, sometimes techno, sometimes rock, sometimes with some oriental tones to it. Sometimes all of this meshed into one single masterpiece. I hope it returns that way in MK8.
Unique voices and different voice sounds for individual attacks.

Voice 1

Voice 2

no sound

Alternate at random

The hit sounds in MK are pretty good I think.
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03/10/2007 11:13 AM (UTC)
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MethMaker Wrote:
Since the stated plans for the graphical production for the next MK are to be more gritty, a sound overhaul would greatly add to the effect.

Mk has long fascinated me due to its eeriness and mythical qualities, even though much of its sounds are downright whimsical at times. Most projectiles are supernaturally produced, and the sounds should present them as such, have greater detail, depth and dimension, or even silence (I'm thinking of Noob here).


First off, Thank you for bringing this up to such a depth, it's something I've spoken on before, but more along the lines of music-per-arena... You said what I meant better than me. lol

Anywho,
1. I don't know how to fix something like that other than getting like, the latest version MpC2000 and taking samples of weapons and different kinds of "clinks" and "clancks". That's a very teedious process, but if they want unique sounds-to-game it's either that.....or sit there and synthisize for weeks. Tuning every little octive until they reach their goal. But since I don't know how to "fix" it easier than that, I would suggest the MkTeam to inquire top seller movie or cartoon special effects artists about sounds. Films and or movies that have the uniqness you and I may have heard.

a. The Matrix Trilogy has a particular sound.
b. M. Night Shamaylans' thrillers
c. Let Li's "Hero" or "Fearless" could be a modern source for kicks, punches, falls, and so on...they're both martial arts flicks.
d. (Add slew of others' here...)

Maybe they could contract the rights-to-use a few sound cards or something...?? idk, $$ y'know? Other than that there's always "knock-off" sounds....Ones that are tweeked versions of the original. But then that goes back to synthesizing.

MethMaker Wrote:
With regards to strikes, characters should make different noises depending on the placement of the strike and the strength (a jab kick to the shin, for instance, should have less of a prominent sound to a kick to the face or punch to the chest). Even the execution of some strikes should have some sounds/grunts (one of the things I liked about the run feature in MK3/T).Throws should sound more tied in to the environment--depending on the surface, the landing of a body from a throw will sound different. The sound of all of these should help clearly define each character as an individual--separating them, personality-wise instead of being, more or less, on the whole, homogenous. I would like individual sounds for each character to come up now and then, that aren't shared by any other character, displaying that character's personality/resolve. For instance, after a knockdown or getting busted with a combo, Sub-Zero may make a seething sound and blow a little more steam, Johnny Cage might quickly get back up and shake his head, Baraka might make some sort of growl, Scorpion might make a short, quick laugh under his breath, etc--by this I don't mean so far as to make them "taunts" but merely individual idiosyncracies that don't effect the flow of the fight.


1. Agreed. One of the first threads I ever made on this site was about the "Run feature and Grunts".

Isn't Fight Night a midway game? They could do well to look at the action//reaction in that game, and according to degree of assault//punishment....a fitting sound. Boxing matches are a good, natural way to get grunts and or moans-of-pain. Any type of actual sport oriented fighting event for that matter. Then, all the MkTeam would have to do is immulate and manipulate thier own voices...

2. I agree here too, more that detailing a splash or gravel slide would define the arena. A body thrown on my apt floor would sound like somebody threw huge ice cubes on the floor....this then followed by a quick sliding tumble of some sort. You're right thouhg, different arena, different sound.

Suggestion: GO OUTSIDE!! lol! Go throw big human-figured//weighed beanbags and experiment...frozen, wet, dry...dry but thrown into water...ect

3. One thing I have to mention in this section though. Whether for one indivedual character, or an option for the whole roster to use, I'd like to see/hear that really old kung fu movie "slap" noise come back. Even if I had to code it in or unlock the option to use, I would love for it to be there...


MethMaker Wrote:
The stages, being of different areas/types, should have a different sound to the fighting action. In a temple/cathedral setting, there may be a greater reverb than something in a forest. In the desert, steps or jumps might evoke a sound of the shifting of sand. The choice of sounds is virtually endless, but the use of a number of them will help individualize each stage, beyond visual gimmickry.

Although it might be difficult, the music could reflect the stage of the fight. This can be done by making the audio not as a single file, but as several files layered to play simultaneously, with one instrument per track, like in midi. Strings such as the koto or shamisen could feature prominently in the opening stages of a fight, enhanced with ambient sounds, but as the health lowers, the drum track (which might be muted at the start) can be given more prominence to reflect the more frenetic, dangerous turn of the bout--a realtime equalizer, more or less, reflecting the progress. Other layers could be added so that there can be dissonance at the end, etc. Additional, more problematic possibilities include the shifting of tempo due to the flow of the fight--if two turtlers are playing, then the music will be unbearably slow--if two aggressive, fluent players are battling, the music can get extremely fast and adrenaline-drenched.


1. That sounds alot like ProTools actually(among some music editors), and in there, you can set a "trigger" for a track to play in real time. Depends alot on what version you have really though. But I don't know how that would work in-game. Interesting concept nonetheless...



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