There are around three times more basic attacks in every fighting style than in the nonstyle MK1-MK4 era.

Almost all medium sized combos can damage well above 60%.

What you wrote is simply not true. You just have not found out how to pro-perly memorize this (although obsolete) link-after-link fight-gaming.

I'd rather they stick with the use of martial arts styles and weapons but have much better accuracy in the future. However, the fighting mechanics themselves need major overhauling and revamping, starting with the implementing of all the basic necessities (e.g. wake up game, throw escapes, parries, string combos, etc.) and making sure they are done right. Of course, proper testing and balancing out is also needed.

But anyway, I like the idea of going with 2 styles per character like in MKA, with some characters have 1 hand-to-hand style and 1 weapon style while others have 2 hand-to-hand styles.

I remember somewhere reading that Boon is going to get rid of the multiple fighting styles in the next game.

I think that makes sense. I mean in real life you wouldnt fight and suddenly switch your stance and your entire set of moves. NO...all of your moves are accessible to you at EVERY moment. Although I like the style change. I love confusing my opponent by switching stances. I love setting up a noob for a throw by switching stances over and over while walking up to them while they were standing and blocking and throwing their ass....

However, if you look at other fighting games they do a good job with havind depth to the fighting system without changing styles.

If they add good counter moves. Make juggles more difficult they should be alright. I dont think they should go to the old system where everyones moves were the same. Although they may share some moves....i think making each fighter unique would be the best way to go. and given that there will be fewer fighters...this is probably the way they are going to go.

I would like to see fighters have only one style, but for each of the moves to feel like they're a part of the character. For example, Mileena should have very elegant movements, but quite vicious attacks. Characters could be given further detail and background, just by how they handle.

Problem is: the game represents the martial arts as a rigid set of moves whereas in real combat you may implement as much as up to five different methods:

example: close circle fencing requires both the fechting (fencing with the longsword) and the ringen (field wrestling) schools. It is impossible to fight with a sword within a 1,5 meter diameter and NOT using at least two martial arts.

Also, think about the many gong fu practitioneers who, while practicing for example Hu Chuan, Monkey and at least 100 different other styles also use Iron Shirt and Iron Palm techniques. Not to mention Dim Mak, or while we are at it, mixed martial arts....

Technically simltaneous use of martial arts is entire possible, if not do-minant, problem lies within gameplay mechanics.

I like how in MKA you have your hand and weapon style, that works well.

What I think can change is to not be forced to have a hand or weapon style.

they can be all hands

or hand and weapon

Have different defense animations for defending against weapons. Evasions instead of blocks.

If they have a weapon on their person, they can unsheathe it, not make it appear out of thin air unless it's magical. It can be pre made or an item you can buy like in VF and Tekken's character customizations.

I know people freak out about that, possibly breaking the game, but I still like the idea. I’m thinking it wouldn’t be such a problem if the other player can use it against you.

I liked how you could use the weapons in MK4, knocking them out of the opponent’s hands, throwing them and having the opponent able to use it. Maybe that should go back in for the next MK. Just have it be hard to get their weapon out of their grasp.

Stage weapons would be nice to keep if they were more believable.

A weapon rack, or take it away from a guard instead of it floating in the middle of the stage.

Make it seem realistic basically.

To make the opponent drop a weapon you could use reversals or some other special attacks.


The empty hand style should be strong enough on their own though, so if you drop a weapon, you aren't severally weakened. by your remaining arsenal.

Do you mean that we should be able to choose if we want a character to have 2 hand-to-hand styles or 1 hand-to-hand and 1 weapon style?

One thing I would love to see, and this is something that an old member named nindz thought of, would be to have style-oriented defense. However, that may kind of break the game a bit.

In MKDA-MKA, the characters basically use Karate/TKD style blocks, which are basically force-on-force type defense moves. However, if style-oriented defense were implemented, not all characters would use such blocks. For example, in styles like Wing Chun, Southern Praying Mantis, and Escrima, they use a lot of trapping techniques. Then we have styles like Goju Ryu and Hapkido, which use circular hand techniques for redirecting attacks.

So I wonder how it would be able to work without things being overly broken. Anybody have any ideas on that?

Regarding the unsheating of weapon idea, I kind of like that, but I have to wonder about characters like Jade, who wields a staff. How would it be able to work for her?

I have an idea regarding the MK4 weapon-dropping concept. There could be some kind of meter that symbolizes how much more a character can take before he/she drops his/her weapon. That would kind of make sure that the weapon styles won't be too powerful.

Never mind that idea, I keep thinking of too many problems it would create for competitive play.

I think the best way to do it is how it is in MKA, even if it looks fake.


Either that or have it so you can choose before a match or round if you want to fight bear handed or with weapons.

Like the VS combat codes in MK3.


I think the MKA style is more fun though.

lol..well, I can't blame you though. Sure, certain things would be fun to have, but the gameplay still needs to be playable at high-level for competitors.

I like the VS thing, and I would've liked that to return.

I don't think the drawing out weapons idea is necessarily bad. It'll just be tough for some characters.

I'd probably have to nix the style-oriented defense thing as it would probably make things way too complicated. I'd rather they have a simple, easy to get into feel.

You know what they should've done? For the parry animation, they should've used the same animation as MKDA's reversals had. I'm talking about when the character puts their hands out. And depending on the attack, the character who parries it can deflect either left or right in a more fluid animation. That would've been easier and more logical than some kind of blocking arm type pose.

agreed

I think that most style oriented defense could be made to look different but work the same for all fighters. There can be some exceptions, like Jacky and Vanessa's autoparry in VF4 and 5.

One character might have a special block, evasion, flip, teleport, auto counter or parry defense against certain types of attacks.

Then have special defensive options that are like what you posted earlier. Just have them be used like Reversals and parries, a special move basically.

There can be many ways to do this, it doesn't just have to be a basic thing for everybody.

Yeah...I was kind of thinking about a particular move, one used in the Ninjutsu traditions and probably some of the related arts like Gyokko Ryu Kosshijutsu. It's a move called Ukinagashi, which IIRC means something along the lines of "receiving flow". It's basically a parry-type move with one-hand deflecting some kind of high-level strike or kick. I was thinking that while the character can do what everyone else does and puts two hands in front, the animation could flow well when he/she deflects with the one hand as it can be used with either one.

About reversals, I was actually wondering how they could be done without being rather broken.

H M and L reversals like in VF.

Have a small catch window and depending on the damage or follow up it gives you, allow or don't allow an escape.

I think they should go back to the old gameplay system instead of the fighting styles.

Here's why...

The fighting styles restrict the characters' moves from being creative and innovative.

Before, there was no obligation for characters to have to have certain moves but now there is because it's part of their fighting style.

The fighting styles also restrict the characters from having creative and character-fitting stances. For example, I think Yuan Yang and Crane are lame stances for any kombatants, and kind of embarassing.

Overall, I think the characters' combos and stances should be character-unique and creative and shouldn't be bound to the restrictions of a specific martial arts fighting style.

However, I do want weapons to return (not necessarily as "styles") because they add more options to the fighting. I also want more features like the wake-up game to be introduced cuz they also add more options and prevent the fighting from being the exact same thing over and over.

I also think the old game play system must come back as the fighting styles ruined the MK series. The weapons should return. The MK3 combos system was perfect. Each character's combo was unique and we had more opportunities to include the special moves in the combos. The MK4 system was too universal.

Wtf? You're saying you want MK to have the HP, LP, LK, HK system and still have chain combos?

Nah. They need to get with the times and use logic by having the combos be strings.

What are strings?

String combos are different from chains in that you can block in the middle of a combo, but you still have to be careful of things like mixups. With chain combos, which have been used in the MK games since MK3, if the first hit connects, the rest are guaranteed 100%. The MK team lazily put in combo breakers for MKD and MKA, which are cheap band-aids that don't really solve the combo problem.

Wouldn't trying to execute combos be a hassle in this case? I mean, I have enough trouble trying to get the first hit connected in high difficulty settings since all the opponents do is block, and now you the opponents to be able to block in the middle of combos?

I suppose that could have its uses on the defensive side, but still, it just makes the combos harder to finish.

I like breakers, btw. I'd hate the idea of my opponent blocking ALL my combos instead of just 3 after the first hit connects.

I thought string combos were something like combos that could be made by the player by letting them randomly connect whatever moves the character has available. The term "string" made me think of "connect." So I thought it meant "stringing (or connecting) moves to perform a combo."

I guess I was way off. "X-Men: Mutant Academy 2" (a crappy ass game) has string combos and I can't really tell the difference.

-Not block. No martial art encourages blocking to full extent. INstead parry, reverse, joint-lock or riposte. This have been implemented in most fighting games MK notwithstanding.

The problem is that MK generalized everything. Attacks have no width, depth and most importantly various degrees of power. The old system is essentially worse and an abomination what must not be reused. That would be idiocy. Once we have the paramteres for each move, we could
have a good system which would decide the possibilities of attack/defense
relations. And try not to bring up the horrible idea of High-defense where a multi-purpose block is a turtling excuse for players. It is a WRITTEN FACT that when you are on the defensive, you are loosing advantage. It is said so by people from Fiore dei Liberi, Ringeck, and basically every living martial artist.

Fighting styles not giving characters uniqueness? That has to be the greatest oxymoron so far. All for it, name fighting styles but for Gods sake execute them properly and do not degrade them to "looks like" fightting styles.

Lol at Crane being embarassing. Whats embarassing about taking a stance where momentum is emphasized?

I'm not surprised that you disagree with me.... for the billionth time in a row. I think you might be my equal and opposite force. Lol.

Anyway, fighting styles limit characters to pose and have moves bound by their fighting styles. They clearly offer no room for creativity since everything is already made up and set. They don't allow the developers to think of stances and combos that could fit a character to its best.

Crane looks silly. Period. And it's not just me who thinks so. TV, movies, and other things even make fun of that stance quite often. Arms way up and a leg hanging in mid air... How goofy looking, especially for Mortal Kombat.

As for other fighting styles. Some are cool, but they shouldn't restrict characters from doing new things. I hope MK8 returns without the fighting styles for this reason. We've had fighting styles for 3 whole games in a row and I'm bored of them now.

Wouldn't it be better to have new moves with new stances and creative combos that fit characters more specifically?

(Of course you're not gonna think so).

Many fighting styles use more than one stance/posture. They aren't really "poses". Some fighting styles DO set room for creativity. Some martial arts have lots of moves, so it isn't so much about restricting the moves that the players can use. It's more so about the amount of moves the programmers are able to put in. For example, in the Virtua Fighter games, the characters pretty much each have one style yet they have lots of moves from their styles.

And if Crane is silly, then I guess that Hicho no Kamae (Flying Bird Posture) would be silly to you to, even though you don't know and wouldn't care about its application.

Correct.

If Flying Bird were an effective style, I'd consider using it in real life, but in a video game, I want the characters to look bad-ass, not silly. Plus, a lot of the qualities and effects of real life fighting styles aren't put into the game itself. Like u said Bo Rai' Cho's drunk style was to make the opponent feel overconfident. That doesn't happen in the game, for example.

Also, fighting styles can be looked up and researched. So if someone in MK8 were to get Eagle Claw, it would suck that we would already know what their moves and stance would be like.

I'd very much prefer something fresh, never seen before, new, innovative, creative, spontaneous, original, etc. like the combos from MK3. Let Virtua Fighter have fighting styles. I think something more original and fantasy-based goes better with MK.

if they can incorporate the same gameplay mechanics as in tekken 5 that would be awsome

Hicho no Kamae is the Flying Bird Posture, a posture used in styles like Gyokko Ryu, Togakure Ryu, Gyokushin Ryu, etc. It is not something that's meant to be a pose in which the user waits for the opponent to make a move.

The Drunken Fist fighting stance is meant to confuse the opponent as well as to build momentum for the power of the techniques.

Eagle Claw has several stances like most other martial arts styles.

Although MK is fantasy based, it doesn't mean it shouldn't have realistic elements like the incorporation of actual martial arts styles. If I remember correctly, the MK tournaments are martial arts tournaments, aren't they?

The combo system in MK3 is outdated and lackluster compared to the combo systems used in other fighting games.