martial arts vs.magic
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posted10/08/2014 05:48 AM (UTC)by
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PointGuard_Material
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10/02/2014 05:01 PM (UTC)
How well would a character like Bo Rai Cho play in MKX? I guess what I would like to know is could such a character with no use of magic at all be fun to play as against characters with magic use?
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JasonVPred
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10/07/2014 03:44 AM (UTC)
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Since the implementation of the variation system he should have a mix of both. I want to see him freeze gravity like SZ because he has taught magical mortals to hone their skills.
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RazorsEdge701
10/07/2014 03:53 AM (UTC)
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He could always have a special move similar to one of his Deception fatalities where he spits alcohol at a torch to make a short ranged flamethrower projectile.
Also, there's not really anything saying he doesn't have chi powers. He taught both Liu Kang and Kung Lao moves that involve floating/flying while kicking, maybe he should actually have one of his own.
Well....... I guess that could work but I was hoping he didn't have any projectile moves. Would such a character fit well in this game or having some sort of projectile is a necessity?
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Blade4693
10/07/2014 04:02 AM (UTC)
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Yeah Bo could be a challenge to pull off in MKX, especially with the variation system, but I think NRS could/can do it.

I like RazorsEdge701's idea about him having a special based on his old fatality, they could make it similar to Zatanna's fire attacks in Injustice.
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RazorsEdge701
10/07/2014 04:03 AM (UTC)
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A character without projectiles can certainly work, but that character would need to be visually interesting in other ways, like his attacks would have to have glowy special effects or be pro-wrestling grapples like Jax's Piledriver and Backbreaker. A dude who just punches and kicks with nothing special ABOUT those punches and kicks will quickly become regarded as the most boring character on the roster.

Since Drunken Boxing isn't a style that suplexes and powerbombs would fit into and Bo' doesn't have anything that makes him glow colors or sparkle, breathing fire would be about the only "cool looking" thing he could do to compete on the visual/special effects level.
Ah I see where you are coming from.... I asked the question because during the 3d era the characters had actual fighting styles and gave it a martial arts feeling to the game.
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MrInternational
10/07/2014 04:16 AM (UTC)
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Probably not, but then again I never really liked Bo Rai cho. In my opinion his concept as a fighter is badass: the guy taught Liu kang martial arts and some seriously sick moves, but ruined him by making him some fat drunk that pukes and farts everywhere. I personally cannot take a character like that seriously. Now if they redo him and make his Drunken fist technique a bit more brutal and respectable (no throwing up attacks) than i can probably appreciate Bo Rai cho, but until then i hope he isn't a playable fighter in MKX, but like i said its just my opinion.
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Baraka407
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10/07/2014 04:38 AM (UTC)
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Yeah, I could see Bo Rai Cho presenting a very unique set of challenges for NRS if they decide to bring him back for MKX.

Can he be done without the use of projectiles? Yes, but the question is whether or not NRS would want such a character.

My guess is that one variation would have to include projectiles. I just can't picture them saying "he'll have no options in this regard." I'm sure his puke puddle would return, though I'd much rather they do something like green dragon head projectiles or red and silver dragon skull projectiles. Breathing fire would also be a great idea. Perhaps he could conjure a fire dragon that buffs him or ties up the opponent or you can control how fast and where it goes and make if breathe fire etc.

But for the other two styles? Yeah, I could see a non-projectile style or two working.

Perhaps one is like a gadget style, where he uses a tri-fold staff, and he gets more reach with this, does acrobatic combos and specials that make it glow. He could also have other weapons like a chain sword ala Brotherhood of the a Wolf and Soul Calibur, a dagger for close quarters and other stuff that could come out in combos or can be equipped.

I could also see a drunken boxing style working. This could certainly be acrobatic in combos, plus it'd be a throw heavy move set, but it'd also be very defensive-minded. Counter attacks, parrys, counter throws, grab out of the air, projectile absorption, this would be an all purpose defensive style built on baiting and trapping opponents and capitalizing on opportunities.

Just some suggestions. I think that overall, non-projectile characters are a bit strange for MK. I think that they could work provided that they have an interesting move set. But balancing them against a whole roster of projectile users could be very interesting.
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RazorsEdge701
10/07/2014 04:52 AM (UTC)
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The thing about "non-projectile" characters is the definition of a "projectile" is somewhat vague in a modern engine.

When Noob throws out a clone and it tackles you around the waist, that's still a projectile. When Torr chucks Ferra like a bowling ball, that's a projectile. Y'know what I mean? They're graphically different from a glowing ball of energy that travels horizontally across the screen, but the effect is the same, a long distance attack with a hitbox that's disconnected from the character's.

When Jax does a ground pound or Quan Chi makes a magic circle under your feet that explodes or shoots a column of energy up, is that a projectile? How is it different mechanically from Shang's MK3 skull eruption or Kai's meteor-fireballs from MK4?
If Ermac telekinetically grapples and slams you, is that a kind of projectile, a "command throw", or both?
It's worth noting, Bo' Rai Cho does have a ground pound in the old games.
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umbrascitor
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10/07/2014 06:12 AM (UTC)
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Bo' Rai Cho's existing styles of Drunken Fist, Sumo, and Staff would make three adequately different fighting variations; the tricky part is that he wouldn't have a set of basic attacks that are common to all variations, as most of the revealed characters do. Each variation would mostly be built from the ground up. That would be an awful lot of work, but it would certainly be worth the effort.

Drunken Fist would be the most visually interesting style, focusing on unpredictable mixups and defensive tactics like parries, and moves that evade and attack in one motion. Compare to the Capoeira style as used in Tekken. Perhaps he can chuck flaming alcohol flasks as a projectile, or have a firebreathing attack like others have suggested.

Sumo would be a more aggressive, grapple-oriented style that puts pressure on the opponent (literally, if we give him a pancake tackle). Here we see a highly disciplined Bo' Rai Cho: his strikes would be quicker and more direct than in Drunken Fist, and probably hit harder, too. An enhanced charging tackle could have armor on it so that he can rush down projectile-throwing turtles.

The Staff style would focus on mobility. His staff has a naturally longer range, giving him the close-in dominance that Aquaman enjoys in Injustice, and lunging attacks and/or a whirling strike could help him close the distance.

Common moves between variations: Monkey Flips, Ground Stomp. Puke Puddle is redundant if you already have Ground Stomp, so there's no real need to bring that back.

... So yeah, I can see a lot of potential in a character with limited projectile abilities and no magic, as long as the martial arts styles are varied, interesting, and useful enough to make up the diference.
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Chrome
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10/08/2014 05:48 AM (UTC)
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Quick brainstorm, universal special moves: puke puddle (setup move), belly bounce (keepaway charge move, damage).

Drunkard variant: reach and speedy counters

-Vomit stream: 1/3 screen long vomit stream, pushback move with slight damage. EX: 1/2 screen long, faster and arcs slightly a'la. MK4 Reptile. Can reach crouchers. Neither is anti-air capable.
- Headbutt; anti-air move Bo'rai Cho farts himself upward and headbutts the incoming opponent. EX: flaming fart propellant, quite faster and more damaging.
-variant occasionally staggers enough to move out of single attacks.

Teacher variant: close combat oriented vesion, based on mixups and area denial.

-Monkey flips: short range high damage charge move, slight klickback. EX: goes at least 1/2 of screen, speed increased and slight super armor.
-Torch: puke puddles while remain can be set ablaze. Area denial move, slight damage over time effect once opponent stands in them. EX: flaming puddle stuns opponent while damages them.
-Short staff attacks, like how Sub-Zero makes ice weapons in Grandmaster version.

Enraged variant: extremely offensive capabilities on short range.

-gourd throw: throw a flaming gourd of alcohol. Explosive projectile move. EX: set opponent ablaze for slight damage over time.
-Rolling thunder: basically Mileena's roll attack, but Bo'does it sideways. EX: ends with trick uppercut: opponent is hit WHEN crouching.
-Earthquake: the stomp attack. Effect near Bo'rai, around 1/3 of screen, sends opponent flying. EX: full screen effect.
-Belly shield: no sell incoming projectile attack for 1,5 second. EX: no sell other EX moves.

OK, have not done this in quite a while:

X-ray: grab the opponent and hold it's head to Bo'rai Cho's rear. Massive fart sends the opponent near comatose, it's power explodes one of the eyeballs. Double fisted strike to the temples, followed by grabbing into the lower jaw and and shattering the forehead with massive headbutt. Bo'rai Cho quickly shakes his hand as he is bitten on said hand.


Fatality: hold the enemy by the throat. Smash a gourd of alcohol over the opponents head then set it alight. While the opponents tries to escape, Bo'rai Cho vomits up a powerful stream of bile, extinguishing it. Thevomit washes off the burnt skin from the skull. Vomit flows out of empty eyesockets and broken flesh. Opponent dies.


Ok, this is fun. Have not done this for years.

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