Ideas for Konquest Mode
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posted01/07/2006 01:37 AM (UTC)by
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DamRho
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02/09/2003 10:43 PM (UTC)
Well, I know there must be at least fifteen million "this is my idea" threads but I don't think I've seen such a thing dedicated to Konquest mode yet. Anyway, before anything else I'll just warn you that these are my ideas and therefore there is the chance of them being bad/silly/pathetic ideas. I don't claim to hold the universal truth nor the ultimate idea for an awesome game, it's just an opinion and you're absolutely free to disagree - in fact, I encourage you to discuss this. This text may become a bit long so if you're not into reading a long text then this may not be your kind of thread. Also as a warning, my first language isn't English so pardon any grammatical errors, syntax errors, possible made-up words, etc.

OK, Konquest mode was introduced to us in Deadly Alliance and was, basically, just a collection of ten matches to get you into each character's combos and special moves. Some of the characters actually had interesting storyline tidbits in Konquest mode but I felt that most of them were just filler text. Fortunately, Deception had a conceptually better Konquest mode even though, in my opinion, it was pretty much a waste of time. The missions were too linear, the big green thingy that you had to follow most of the time allowed you to not even quite know what to do to succeed - you simply knew that you had to get there anyway.

My idea for Konquest is something that would be described as some sort of merge between a classic role-play game, Shaolin Monks and Deception's Konquest mode.

Since it's been a feature that's been asked for a thousand times, Konquest could be intertwined with a Create-A-Character mode. Basically, you would create "your Shujinko", that would be the character that would go through Konquest mode. Maybe allowing something like three "Shujinko slots" or something along those lines would be fine, allowing you to go through Konquest three times to create three distinct characters.

The character creation process seem obviously perfectly possible: it's been done in other games like Soul Calibur III and the Smackdown wrestling series with some degree of success. My point is not to discuss this specific aspect so assuming it would be something along the lines of those games is perfectly fine.

After this point, a few role-play elements would come into place. I think it would be fine if you could select, for example, three different skill-trees, that you could later develop as you gain experience. Some skill-trees could even depend on the created character's race: for example, a Shokan would always have a Shokan specific skill tree, a Tarkata would have a Tarkata-specific skill tree, etc, so chosing a specific race would limit your customization by two skill trees to prevent things that wouldn't make sense: for example, a Shokan not being able to use shokan "abilities" that all others use. Some of the skill trees you could select from would be things like Shaolin Monk, Ninja, Ice Powers, Spectral Powers, Shapeshifting, Elemental Powers, etc. So in practical terms, you could easilly create a Tarkata student of Sub-Zero if that's what you wished, just by selecting Tarkata as a race - and its race specific skill tree -, Ninja and Ice Powers.

Each skill tree would then have 10 different moves, that you could develop while gaining experience. All moves start at level 0 and as you level up you would be able to put one skill point in one of the moves. Of course, more powerful moves would only be available if you "wasted" one skill point in a previous less powerful move. As you level up the moves, they become faster to execute, more powerful in damage, longer lasting, etc. This sort of customization, if the skill trees are well executed, could provide for literally hundreds of different character builds, just because each player could invest their skill points in different moves, not to mention they could chose different skill trees all along. (as a way to try and clarify this better, think of something similar to the skill trees in some adventure/role-play games out there such as Baldur's Gate or Diablo)

Konquest mode itself would be an adventure in the likes of Deception's Konquest mode - it doesn't make much sense to make it similar to Shaolin Monks as it would require that the created character model would be versatile enough to use the SM fighting engine, and that just seems unnecessary. Remember: it's a game mode, not a standalone game. The things that obviously need to be changed are the missions. Linear point A to point B, go fetch missions should be avoided, they are worth nothing except taking up time. Maybe dividing the game in a few chapters - each chapter ending with a serious boss-like Mortal Kombat contest - and give each chapter a set number of easier missions that obviously have to deal with Kombat. Completing secret missions and finding other secret stuff would obviously lead up to more experience, thus the more dedicated explorers would be able to build the best characters.

Another thing I find of extreme importance in terms of helping the game's longevity: no character can be a perfect unbeatable killing machine just by completing Konquest once - it gives Konquest no replay value after you've built your dream character. Maybe allowing you to replay Konquest with the same character to find even more stuff - even if you're repeating the storylines/missions doesn't seem to be a problem: if it makes our character stronger and faster, we will do it.

The whole "getting Koins to the Krypt" thing should be avoided too: get rid of Koins, get rid of the Krypt. Stuff is automatically unlocked as you find what would be "koffin keys", except they don't open a koffin, they just unlock whatever it is in the Kontent section. This would avoid the coin collecting, the hassle of going to the Krypt and wasting two hours buying useless stuff. Make the keys secret and hard to find and the unlockable stuff worth it. Using Konquest mode as an excuse to get the koins/keys as it seem to have been used in Deception is not a good idea.

Of course this would mean that your created character's storyline would not be quite customizable, but I don't think that's a big problem. The level of diversity this customization allows seems to be worth that small detail.

I don't really see anything technical stopping Midway from implementing this idea: none if this is impossible to program and none of this would take any incredible amount of time to do. It's just a question of wether the MK team, and wether the potential players think this is a worthy thing to think about or not.

So, sorry for the length of the text but what exactly do you think of all this? Good idea? Bad idea? Would suck to infinity? Feel free to tell us smile
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ninpo
12/25/2005 04:32 AM (UTC)
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I think that coins just laying around is a bad idea too. Make coins come from fighting enemies. Also i dont like learning everyones move i can do that on my own. When you do konqueat mode make it so you can play with anyone. Since everyones story is connected anyways. If they werent then they wouldnt be in mk. Ninpo wins
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queve
12/28/2005 01:59 PM (UTC)
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Damn....I gave such a long reply to this thread, but my post has been deleted. Same happened in other threads. It seems to me that while the server was down some posts were deleted in some threads.

Well, I wont be able to respond the way I did before, giving my opinion to every single one of your points, but I will point out the most important things imo.

I like the specific skill tree idea, very good, but Im still not fond to the create a character idea for Mk...I just think it would look bad. What I said in my deleted post was that while I really enjoyed reading your post and that I would love to see some of those ideas implemented, I actually hope the MK team doesn’t focus on this sort of extra mini games/fun games and actually pay attention to more important matters such as the improvement of gameplay and the overall design of the game (story, graphics, level interactivity, music, etc).

I loved your Krypt ideas, Im actually A HUGE fan of the krypt, I thought the MKD krypt was better then the one of MKDA, but I have to agree your idea to annihilate the krypt from Mk7 is interesting (I guess its very similar to that of MKSM), if Konquest is actually involved.

I think MKDAs Konquest was better, I loved the text, for it was a guide to the past and present storyline of the specific character you were playing with, but MKDs Konquest was more fun, I enjoyed it more.

If Konquest is to return (but they need to focus first on the other important matters and leave this mini game for the end), then it should definitely be a mix of MKDA and MKSM. An adventure where you can actually kill and fight, but have some solid text that doesn’t bore you.

Great ideas man, I wish my original post wasn’t deleted, I wrote so much, oh well, that’s all I can remember for now.
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Jian_
12/29/2005 01:05 AM (UTC)
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Actually it reminds me of something I posted on Forums.Midway not to long ago (my not to long ago I mean yesterday). Actually after thinking about it more I've found ways to improve on my idea.

Okay, firstly the whole race/speicies thing can't be done. Maybe on the X-Box or the Gamecube but I know for a fact the Playstation 2 can't do it (I know this because Soul Cal 3 couldn't let you be mosters either) its because it would be too hard to create an engine for conlision detection. Maybe on the next gen console we could see something like that but MK7 is going to be on current gen.

Next... your three slot idea. Boy your thinking is too limited. Just add a memory card icon at the bottom of the character selection list that allows you to load your character save file. As for you skill-tree idea. A much better idea, start off with two basic fighting skills, a basic power skill, and a basic weapon. As you explore the world you find Wushu Manuscripts that teach diffrent fighting skills, Gung Qi Manuscripts which teach you power skills, and diffrent weapons which you learn new weapon skills from. As you use each Manuscript (or weapon) you unlock more moves and combos. You can equip up to two Wushu Manuscripts, one Gung Qi Manuscript, and one weapon. By the ways if you are confused by what I mean by Gung Qi, think of it as the manuscript that teaches you the Lin Kuei ice skills.

Also, whenever you find a manuscript or weapon their saved onto a seperat file so when you go to create a new character you can just load them on your new character. This way if you find a fighting skill you like and want to play Konquest again you can use the full skill.

Third, your idea about giving your character points to develop their stats. That was something I came up with as well. Like each time you defeat a character or something you gain some EXP points and you get so many points to add to your stats when you level up making the Max Level 10 so your character can't get overly powerful.

As for a linear story... you should be able to select your path having atleast three diffrent endings (two evil endings, two good endings, and a neutral). As well there should be a sort of alignment factor that slightly effects the outcome of the endings (so in truth there are only five endings (a good guy evil ending, bad guy evil ending, neutral ending, good guy good ending, bad guy evil ending)).

Oh, and one last thing to comment. Costume. At the beginning you should be given some fairly basic choices but as you explore the world you unlock more costume options which you can change in mid-game. These too should be saved on that seperate save file.

As for the character him/her self. I think you should start off as a vagrant from Earth Realm who some how gets caught up in the MK Event.
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DamRho
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12/29/2005 05:16 PM (UTC)
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First of all, thanks for the replies. Glad to see somebody actually read this.

Jian_ Wrote:


Okay, firstly the whole race/speicies thing can't be done. Maybe on the X-Box or the Gamecube but I know for a fact the Playstation 2 can't do it (I know this because Soul Cal 3 couldn't let you be mosters either) its because it would be too hard to create an engine for conlision detection. Maybe on the next gen console we could see something like that but MK7 is going to be on current gen.


I don't really see your point as far as it goes with the collision detection engine, it's been done to death on the Smackdown series and yes, although a little buggy, it works.

Jian_ Wrote:


Next... your three slot idea. Boy your thinking is too limited. Just add a memory card icon at the bottom of the character selection list that allows you to load your character save file.


The problem with creating unlimited amounts of characters is that, to me, it poses less of a challenge. Why aim for a perfect character build when you can just create tons randomly and end up getting some great character by sheer luck?

Jian_ Wrote:

As for you skill-tree idea. A much better idea, start off with two basic fighting skills, a basic power skill, and a basic weapon. As you explore the world you find Wushu Manuscripts that teach diffrent fighting skills, Gung Qi Manuscripts which teach you power skills, and diffrent weapons which you learn new weapon skills from. As you use each Manuscript (or weapon) you unlock more moves and combos. You can equip up to two Wushu Manuscripts, one Gung Qi Manuscript, and one weapon. By the ways if you are confused by what I mean by Gung Qi, think of it as the manuscript that teaches you the Lin Kuei ice skills.


That's definitely not a bad idea, just a different idea than mine. I personally feel that your idea lacks the customization power that mine does but it's really just my opinnion.

Jian_ Wrote:


Also, whenever you find a manuscript or weapon their saved onto a seperat file so when you go to create a new character you can just load them on your new character. This way if you find a fighting skill you like and want to play Konquest again you can use the full skill.


Again, this goes against the idea that you have to master the game to achieve the perfect build. Just get someone's memory card and you're pretty much ready to create your killing machine and everybody online would be playing with the same character dressed on different outfits.
The part about the story isn't really the scope of my post but your ideas seem to be perfectly doable so I don't see why it shouldn't be done, but as Queve rightfully posted the main game fighting engine should be the priority so I wouldn't really mind seeing a linear - or no story at all - in the Konquest mode.
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Jian_
12/30/2005 12:18 AM (UTC)
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Slots-
Yeah, but what about those people who just enjoy building fighters? Everytime I get my hand on a wrestling game that allows you to create a good fighter I usually end up just setting there creating a number of fighters only use the pre-made wrestlers to unlock new clothes of fighting styles.

Fight Skills-
I was looking at it by a programer's point of view. It'd be alot easier just to be able to load in mocap data instead of trying to create a system that allows you to custom your own fighting style.

Data Load-
I would imagine that the weapons and manuscripts would be based on pre-made character mocaps. So basically your fighter is only borrowing a skill from one of the Kombatants. I seriously doubt we'll see a bunch of clones of the same character either. I'm not talking about just having five or six fighting styles, I mean pretty much each character's fighting skill plus a few add-in and some hidden skills that are nearly impossible to find. For example, Scorpion's powers would have to be a hidden skill located somewhere in the netherrealm hidden in a dark hole protected by a powerful fighter with Goro like strength, Kitana like speed, and Shao Kahn like weapon, Sub-Zero like skills, and Scorpion like powers. Raiden's powers would be appart of a very difficult and insanely hard mini quest that requires your to find a key item in each realm.
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queve
12/30/2005 02:02 AM (UTC)
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Those are good, the data load is inetersting, but Im not fond of the idea of giving characters more then 3 styles, sounds like too much IMO.
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Weskerian
12/30/2005 02:24 AM (UTC)
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queve Wrote:
Those are good, the data load is inetersting, but Im not fond of the idea of giving characters more then 3 styles, sounds like too much IMO.


Yeah, the last thing you want is a Kustomisation option that gives you too much to do, and thus sucks all the fun out of making the characters. I mean, if you had too much to do or if it was too difficult to get a halfway decent looking character (like in the recent Smackdown games), then it just wouldn't be worth the effort to use that feature, or include it for that matter. There is quite a difficult balance to maintain between too much to edit and too little, and unfortunately I wouldn't know where to start differentiating between the two. I don't have any ideas for gameplay, just story.
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DamRho
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12/30/2005 04:54 PM (UTC)
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Jian_ Wrote:
Slots-
Fight Skills-
I was looking at it by a programer's point of view. It'd be alot easier just to be able to load in mocap data instead of trying to create a system that allows you to custom your own fighting style.



Actually I wasn't referring to "fighting styles" as it has been presented in later MK games, it would be something more like special moves - I understand you would have to come up with a ton of new special moves for any new game but were here to dream about things so why not throw in a few of these as well. I don't think this is "unpracticable" at all, I'm a programmer too and I realise that everything can be done given the proper time to do it (of course, if we're talking about FMV endings and stuff like that, budget helps too). But really now that you talk about fighting styles I realise I haven't really even mentioned them in my post which is kind of strange forgetting something that has been a centerpiece of later MK games; but in what comes to this matter I think customizing a fighting style would definitely be overkill and too much to do - it could even actualy make the fighting look extremely odd if you mix up moves from different styles. It would be better if you could just select two plus a weapon style from existing MK fighters in the main roster IMO.
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OPTI0N
12/30/2005 06:39 PM (UTC)
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Get rid of it.
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Coltess
12/30/2005 08:14 PM (UTC)
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queve Wrote:
Damn...". hey watch your language there are ladies and children on this sitefuriousfurious
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queve
01/01/2006 12:52 AM (UTC)
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I seriously doubt "damn" can be considered as offensive in this site, when there are other more cute and decorative words flying around in every thread.
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Jian_
01/04/2006 02:51 AM (UTC)
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queve Wrote:
Those are good, the data load is inetersting, but Im not fond of the idea of giving characters more then 3 styles, sounds like too much IMO.
I think you might have misuderstood. The two Wushu Manuscripts are the Fighting Styles, the Gongqi Manuscripts are special moves like Scorpion's spear, or Liu Kang chi blast. And the Weapons are obviously the weapon fighting styles.
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SubMan799
01/04/2006 04:26 AM (UTC)
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The next konquest mode should allow you to pick a mortal kombat character and show you his past. Like if you picked Quan Chi as a character, you would get to play as him in a MKSM sorta way. You know, like you could fight the Shira-Ryu clan or something like that. You would be able to unlock stuff in the krypt (or whatever they're doing this time) the same way you unlocked stuff in MKSM.

Also, instead of putting in a create-a-character mode, they should allow you to customize the characters attributes through this mode. They could level up to upgrade their attributes.

And you could also unlock different moves for each character through konquest. If you beat konquest with one character, you get a special move for him/her. Like how you unlocked fatalities in Deception for Shujinko.

With a konquest like that, the people who want a bigger explanation to the past of MK characters will be happy, and at the same time, the people who want a create a character mode will be happy as well. Everyone wins!grin
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DamRho
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The world is built upon the bricks of shame

01/04/2006 06:16 PM (UTC)
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SubMan799 Wrote:

With a konquest like that, the people who want a bigger explanation to the past of MK characters will be happy, and at the same time, the people who want a create a character mode will be happy as well. Everyone wins!grin


Yes but then Konquest wouldn't be a side-mode that you would play only if you wanted, it would be mandatory to play it since only then you would be able to unlock too important stuff for the "regular" cast of characters like special moves and stuff like that. I'm not fond of having to be obliged to play a side-mode to get the most out of the regular cast of characters but it's just my way of seeing things. Conceptually that wouldn't be a bad idea though I just don't like it personally. smile
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jax123
01/04/2006 06:27 PM (UTC)
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I think that you should be able to go through Konquest as any of the MK characters just like in Deadly alliance but it should be just like the konquest mode in Deception in the way that it is an adventure. You should also be able to create your own character and the story they go through in konquest should depend on wether you are good, neutral or evil.
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$UB-Z?R0
01/04/2006 07:03 PM (UTC)
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I want the konquest mode exactly like in MK DA, but this time with movies showing the adventure of those characters. I liked the konquest mode of MK DA, because, I got so involved in each story of the characters. In MK D there was only the story of the long and boring journey of Shujinko and it was IMO completely waste of time..........
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Weskerian
01/04/2006 09:32 PM (UTC)
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$UB-Z?R0 Wrote:
I want the konquest mode exactly like in MK DA, but this time with movies showing the adventure of those characters.
I liked the konquest mode of MK DA, because, I got so involved in each story of the characters.
In MK D there was only the story of the long and boring journey of Shujinko and it was IMO completely waste of time..........


Actually, I think that the story should be moved to the Arcade mode rather than some kind of side quest. I would much prefer it if the storyline was told through the actual arcade mode of the game, like its supposed to be in games like Soul Calibur and DOA2 (bad examples I suppose, since those games have little story to speak of, but you get the idea).

As for Konquest, I would prefer it if they came up with a kind of sparring mode, or practice simulator, similar to MKDA's konquest, but with each character training with another in a friendly situation, such as Sonya sparring with Jax or Johnny, Liu Kang sparring with Kung Lao, Noob sparring with Smoke, Shao Kahn sparring with Goro, and things to that effect for every character. It would just add a bit more depth to learning the basics of each character's fighting styles, to have a character tied to the individual, and who would actually move around and talk and such while you were taken through the lessons. The sparring sessions could take place in training arenas like in MKDA, but also with one per character, such as the Nexus for Scorpion, a mountain-top amid a tornado for Raiden, a dojo at the OIA base for Sonya and Jax, a movie studio for Johnny, things like that.

I like the Krypt and the Koins though, they should definitely keep those.
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SubMan799
01/04/2006 11:55 PM (UTC)
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DamRho Wrote:
SubMan799 Wrote:

With a konquest like that, the people who want a bigger explanation to the past of MK characters will be happy, and at the same time, the people who want a create a character mode will be happy as well. Everyone wins!grin


Yes but then Konquest wouldn't be a side-mode that you would play only if you wanted, it would be mandatory to play it since only then you would be able to unlock too important stuff for the "regular" cast of characters like special moves and stuff like that. I'm not fond of having to be obliged to play a side-mode to get the most out of the regular cast of characters but it's just my way of seeing things. Conceptually that wouldn't be a bad idea though I just don't like it personally. smile


Well, in MKD most of the unlockables came from konquest mode.
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Jian_
01/05/2006 02:40 AM (UTC)
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Actually I agree. I think that you should only unlock a few cool extras in Konquest like a few hidden characters or special movies or costumes. The whole, you have to play konquest to unlock important characters is stupid. I don't want to play Konquest just so I can spend hours trying to find Raiden so I can use him in the Arcade and/or Mini-games.
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DamRho
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01/05/2006 03:58 PM (UTC)
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SubMan799 Wrote:
Well, in MKD most of the unlockables came from konquest mode.


I know, and that's not necessarily a good thing; Konquest mode in MK:D was pretty much boring since its only purpose was to collect koins/keys and do "fetch this" quests...
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SubMan799
01/05/2006 08:54 PM (UTC)
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DamRho Wrote:
SubMan799 Wrote:
Well, in MKD most of the unlockables came from konquest mode.


I know, and that's not necessarily a good thing; Konquest mode in MK:D was pretty much boring since its only purpose was to collect koins/keys and do "fetch this" quests...


good point
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deathgrave
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01/05/2006 09:25 PM (UTC)
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i think another thing for Konquest is not just to have fighting have other MK things in it like

- test your might
- test your sight
- puzzle combat, perhaps against some old wise characters
- chess combat, meh maybe this is not a good idea as it takes time to finish a chess game sometimes...

Anyways and also i think a Kreate a Soul (KAS) would be awesome.
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Jian_
01/06/2006 12:17 AM (UTC)
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No... no mini-games in Konquest. Thats just not a good idea. Maybe a foot race where you can cheat to beat your opponent (like throw stuff at his head) but not damn mini-games.
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Grimm
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01/06/2006 12:37 AM (UTC)
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I sort of liked Konquest better in MKDA. It told the story basically of the character that you were. If they are going to make it like they did in MKD again, then I say get rid of it, because that means that the storyline will revolve around Konquest mode again, and I doubt they will do that. Not even MIdway is THAT stupid.
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