Gameplay Design: Dropping and removing weapons
Mortal Kombat X
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Gameplay Design: Dropping and removing weapons
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posted11/20/2008 01:56 PM (UTC)by
Member Since
09/08/2006 10:33 PM (UTC)
I came across this video here. In the video where the man purposely drops his spear, it occured to me, what if the MK team utilized this design in their gameplay for future games? So like then once your character decides to drops his/her weapon, he or she would use their fists(or other hand strikes in respect to the style used) and elbows to fight. I guess you could be doing kicks while you still have your weapon in hand/s like in Soul Calibur. I always thought it looked kind of weird in Soul Calibur though that some characters throws in there are done with the actual weapon or with weapon in hand, if I'm not mistaken. But I guess this is what they were going for and I can't really blame them since it's probably the nature of the design.
Another gameplay element, like in the video, where the man with the spear knocks the butterfly knives out of the other guys hands with a kick and strike could also be used. Forcing the other player to use his hands, elbows, shoulders or any other type of attack with the body that the player wouldn't be doing if he or she had a weapon in their hands (of course, I'm trying to make this element of gameplay realistic, so thats why I made mention to the type of attacks you are able to do above. Also I would imagine the body parts you utilize to fight all depend on what type of weapon you have and the style you are using.)
I don't know to much about martial arts and what attacks have what affects on the body. It would be nice for our martial arts practitioners on the board to jump in here. But yeah, you can only make a game real to an extent, but a kill by a single stab with a sword isn't any fun, haha.
Final idea. You can pick up the weapon you dropped/ had removed from you.
I would like to hear your thoughts on the subject. Would you like to see any of these ideas implemented or maybe see something else entirely? How would these features really affect gameplay in your opinion? Do you have any ideas of your own? I'm personally neither for or against them, they just occured to me. Sorry for the essay but it was hard for me to get my point across without typing one.
Another gameplay element, like in the video, where the man with the spear knocks the butterfly knives out of the other guys hands with a kick and strike could also be used. Forcing the other player to use his hands, elbows, shoulders or any other type of attack with the body that the player wouldn't be doing if he or she had a weapon in their hands (of course, I'm trying to make this element of gameplay realistic, so thats why I made mention to the type of attacks you are able to do above. Also I would imagine the body parts you utilize to fight all depend on what type of weapon you have and the style you are using.)
I don't know to much about martial arts and what attacks have what affects on the body. It would be nice for our martial arts practitioners on the board to jump in here. But yeah, you can only make a game real to an extent, but a kill by a single stab with a sword isn't any fun, haha.
Final idea. You can pick up the weapon you dropped/ had removed from you.
I would like to hear your thoughts on the subject. Would you like to see any of these ideas implemented or maybe see something else entirely? How would these features really affect gameplay in your opinion? Do you have any ideas of your own? I'm personally neither for or against them, they just occured to me. Sorry for the essay but it was hard for me to get my point across without typing one.
About Me
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Personally, I don't think every character should have a weapon like they did in the previous gen. For some characters, having a weapon fits them. Raiden is associated with his staff, Kahn with his hammer, Kitana and Mileena have their fans and sais, Kabal's hookswords, etc.
But some characters just don't make sense with a weapon. Why the hell did Sindel have a spear, for instance?
But some characters just don't make sense with a weapon. Why the hell did Sindel have a spear, for instance?
Sure, I think we could get some ideas from Mk:4 without repeating the same thing. Like fighters cant steal weapons from each other from how fast you can tap the "X or "A button. Something like that.
For example. If there's a Spear laying around in the middle of a room, and your Kano fighting Nitara; I don't think they would care who's weapon it belongs to. The both of them would run to the middle of that room to reach a that same spear, to kill each other that much quicker.
See In Mortal Kombat, sometimes it makes sense just to have a weapon period.
RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
But some characters just don't make sense with a weapon. Why the hell did Sindel have a spear, for instance?
But some characters just don't make sense with a weapon. Why the hell did Sindel have a spear, for instance?
For example. If there's a Spear laying around in the middle of a room, and your Kano fighting Nitara; I don't think they would care who's weapon it belongs to. The both of them would run to the middle of that room to reach a that same spear, to kill each other that much quicker.
See In Mortal Kombat, sometimes it makes sense just to have a weapon period.
About Me
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When the characters all have magical projectile powers, and blades and bullets aren't lethal until a disembodied voice screams "Finish him!", holding a weapon doesn't automatically give you any kind of tactical advantage. In Mortal Kombat, a weapon is just another kind of fighting style.
And my point wasn't even that anyway. It was that a spear doesn't fit Sindel's character. Picking one up off the ground mid-fight is one thing. Starting the fight with it as standard equipment that you carry around at all times is something else entirely.
I'm fine with people dropping and picking up weapons as a concept (as long as it's easy to pull off and doing so actually benefits you instead of being a useless, complicated burden like in MK4). I just wanted to state my feelings that not every single character should come standard with a weapon fighting style.
And my point wasn't even that anyway. It was that a spear doesn't fit Sindel's character. Picking one up off the ground mid-fight is one thing. Starting the fight with it as standard equipment that you carry around at all times is something else entirely.
I'm fine with people dropping and picking up weapons as a concept (as long as it's easy to pull off and doing so actually benefits you instead of being a useless, complicated burden like in MK4). I just wanted to state my feelings that not every single character should come standard with a weapon fighting style.
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Yeah RazorsEdge701, I have also had the idea of some characters using weapons while others don't throughout entire rounds as the design.
Man I wish I knew more about the science in martial arts. But even though I don't know much, just by mentally dwelling on what is potentially probable in a fight or by watching videos like the one I posted, you can get a lot of ideas from a probable reality.
For instance, I was thinking one of the advantages of dropping a weapon like a spear would be to get in close to attack your opponent, if say that you are in a situation where you can't do much with the spear because you are in a position of limited movement, dropping it to use your hands to strike or throw might be a good alternative and would make it look more realistic.
Again though, I may have no clue what I'm talking about, so it would be good for others to share their thoughts.
Man I wish I knew more about the science in martial arts. But even though I don't know much, just by mentally dwelling on what is potentially probable in a fight or by watching videos like the one I posted, you can get a lot of ideas from a probable reality.
For instance, I was thinking one of the advantages of dropping a weapon like a spear would be to get in close to attack your opponent, if say that you are in a situation where you can't do much with the spear because you are in a position of limited movement, dropping it to use your hands to strike or throw might be a good alternative and would make it look more realistic.
Again though, I may have no clue what I'm talking about, so it would be good for others to share their thoughts.
There are two problems with the video:
-the fight scene is coreographed practice.
-that situation should not have occured. The point where you are forced to drop your weapon against a weapon is a lost situation {unless you will continue within forearms lenght close combat, essentially wrestling}.
There are a few problems with execution of this idea:
-why should a fighter drop his weapon? -exluding very close combat, and even then, he/she/it should not drop a weapon like a sword. Why?
Reason: the sword is not a too large weapon not to be used in extreme close combat. The half-sword technique can be used I think by eastern blades or other weapons {knives already fight in very short distances}.
Sword use in closeness / extreme closeness ending in throw (this should have been klose kombat for weapons):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6Pnw-9A8qQ
Sword use in extreme closeness /extreme closeness 2, disarming, throws, basically everything you need to see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G_d98ewZmM&feature;=related
-Now translate this into a fighting engine. Problem is: logically a weapon is overly more preferrable to hand-to-hand.
-the fight scene is coreographed practice.
-that situation should not have occured. The point where you are forced to drop your weapon against a weapon is a lost situation {unless you will continue within forearms lenght close combat, essentially wrestling}.
There are a few problems with execution of this idea:
-why should a fighter drop his weapon? -exluding very close combat, and even then, he/she/it should not drop a weapon like a sword. Why?
Reason: the sword is not a too large weapon not to be used in extreme close combat. The half-sword technique can be used I think by eastern blades or other weapons {knives already fight in very short distances}.
Sword use in closeness / extreme closeness ending in throw (this should have been klose kombat for weapons):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6Pnw-9A8qQ
Sword use in extreme closeness /extreme closeness 2, disarming, throws, basically everything you need to see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G_d98ewZmM&feature;=related
-Now translate this into a fighting engine. Problem is: logically a weapon is overly more preferrable to hand-to-hand.
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Chrome Wrote:
- Problem is: logically a weapon is overly more preferrable to hand-to-hand.
- Problem is: logically a weapon is overly more preferrable to hand-to-hand.
I have to agree with you there if you're talking about real life. However we're talking about a game full of metahumans who shoot fire from their fingertips and unleash hella punishment on each other and still come back for more.
In strictly gameplay terms, I like MK as an all-inclusive fighter with both armed and unarmed styles. In order to make all styles attractive, they have to be somewhat equal. So, in game, the designers would have to break realism somewhat to give an unarmed person a chance against an armed opponent.
As far as the next MK, I think they should go with more of a wrestling/Def Jam Vendetta format with totally 3D arenas and free movement. You should be able to pick which weapons you want to bring to a fight out of your character's repertoire and select on the fly whatever weapon the situation calls for.
If MK should rely on any strategy to take it back to the top, it should pick the one that made it big in the first place. Delivering us the experience of being in a truly great martial arts movie. I want to be able to do everything: fight with hands or all kinds of weapons, run and do backflips off of walls, use the environment like Jackie Chan, use all weapons, even throwing stars and 3-section-staffs, or fight off hordes of attackers on a 3D plane, either by myself or with a friend.
In the next MK, there should be no distinction between the Konquest mode and the Kombat mode. There should be one gameplay engine that does it all.
TrueNoob Wrote:
I have to agree with you there if you're talking about real life.
Chrome Wrote:
- Problem is: logically a weapon is overly more preferrable to hand-to-hand.
- Problem is: logically a weapon is overly more preferrable to hand-to-hand.
I have to agree with you there if you're talking about real life.
EDIT: misread agree for argue. Sorry. Real life is the only acceptable martial world I can accept. Special moves are fluff, but are welcome. I generally dislike any kind of made up combat unless it has a very good basis for what and why it is as it is.
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Chrome Wrote:
Real life is the only acceptable martial world I can accept. Special moves are fluff, but are welcome.
TrueNoob Wrote:
I have to agree with you there if you're talking about real life.
Chrome Wrote:
- Problem is: logically a weapon is overly more preferrable to hand-to-hand.
- Problem is: logically a weapon is overly more preferrable to hand-to-hand.
I have to agree with you there if you're talking about real life.
Real life is the only acceptable martial world I can accept. Special moves are fluff, but are welcome.
I respect that, but really, MK is fantasy. If games were realistic to the bone, face it, most people would find them pretty boring.
Yeah, I think Bushido Blade did it well with one-hit kills and broken limbs and what not. Maybe a game like that that was uber-realistic and included close quarters grappling techniques would rock, and if it was done properly and entertainingly I would definitely buy it. However, I don't see that in MK's future. This game was founded on the premises of interdimensional conflict, aeons-old sorcerors, and ice-spewing ninjas. MK definitely at the very least, stretches reality as we know it. MK is fantasy, pure and simple, and like all fantasies, you should check your disbelief at the door. Should it be more convincing? Yes, I definitely believe so. But if you took all of the fantastic elements out, MK just wouldn't be MK.
With that being said, in a world full of half-dragons and sorcerers, an unarmed man taking on an armed opponent and winning is certainly no stretch of the imagination. Also, if done properly, hopefully, even the most cynical of critics would check their disbelief at the door and enjoy it for what it is--pure fantasy and a highly enjoyable gameplay experience. (Speaking hypothetically, of course.)
With all due respect, with the kind of lofty ideals you speak of, it makes me wonder, why do you have anything to do with MK at all? That's not a rhetorical question either, Chrome. Do you or have you ever liked anything about MK?
TrueNoob Wrote:
I respect that, but really, MK is fantasy. If games were realistic to the bone, face it, most people would find them pretty boring.
Yeah, I think Bushido Blade did it well with one-hit kills and broken limbs and what not. Maybe a game like that that was uber-realistic and included close quarters grappling techniques would rock, and if it was done properly and entertainingly I would definitely buy it. However, I don't see that in MK's future. This game was founded on the premises of interdimensional conflict, aeons-old sorcerors, and ice-spewing ninjas. MK definitely at the very least, stretches reality as we know it. MK is fantasy, pure and simple, and like all fantasies, you should check your disbelief at the door. Should it be more convincing? Yes, I definitely believe so. But if you took all of the fantastic elements out, MK just wouldn't be MK.
With that being said, in a world full of half-dragons and sorcerers, an unarmed man taking on an armed opponent and winning is certainly no stretch of the imagination. Also, if done properly, hopefully, even the most cynical of critics would check their disbelief at the door and enjoy it for what it is--pure fantasy and a highly enjoyable gameplay experience. (Speaking hypothetically, of course.)
With all due respect, with the kind of lofty ideals you speak of, it makes me wonder, why do you have anything to do with MK at all? That's not a rhetorical question either, Chrome. Do you or have you ever liked anything about MK?
Chrome Wrote:
Real life is the only acceptable martial world I can accept. Special moves are fluff, but are welcome.
TrueNoob Wrote:
I have to agree with you there if you're talking about real life.
Chrome Wrote:
- Problem is: logically a weapon is overly more preferrable to hand-to-hand.
- Problem is: logically a weapon is overly more preferrable to hand-to-hand.
I have to agree with you there if you're talking about real life.
Real life is the only acceptable martial world I can accept. Special moves are fluff, but are welcome.
I respect that, but really, MK is fantasy. If games were realistic to the bone, face it, most people would find them pretty boring.
Yeah, I think Bushido Blade did it well with one-hit kills and broken limbs and what not. Maybe a game like that that was uber-realistic and included close quarters grappling techniques would rock, and if it was done properly and entertainingly I would definitely buy it. However, I don't see that in MK's future. This game was founded on the premises of interdimensional conflict, aeons-old sorcerors, and ice-spewing ninjas. MK definitely at the very least, stretches reality as we know it. MK is fantasy, pure and simple, and like all fantasies, you should check your disbelief at the door. Should it be more convincing? Yes, I definitely believe so. But if you took all of the fantastic elements out, MK just wouldn't be MK.
With that being said, in a world full of half-dragons and sorcerers, an unarmed man taking on an armed opponent and winning is certainly no stretch of the imagination. Also, if done properly, hopefully, even the most cynical of critics would check their disbelief at the door and enjoy it for what it is--pure fantasy and a highly enjoyable gameplay experience. (Speaking hypothetically, of course.)
With all due respect, with the kind of lofty ideals you speak of, it makes me wonder, why do you have anything to do with MK at all? That's not a rhetorical question either, Chrome. Do you or have you ever liked anything about MK?
Probably the martial arts, and visually it is appealing post MK4. Yeah, and the gore probably appealed to me as a kid. I like fantasy, I practically live off from it, but seeing the rehearsed formula for 8 games gets old.
I just found out that why settle for the blunt made up stuff, when the original is unexplored and much more subtle? Just like I value fantasy for the art of narrative and content in literature, and not for ogres or magicians. Ever read Alice in Wonderland? Best fantasy ever (not fond of it though)...
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