What "fun" gameplay means is successful gameplay. As an entertainment product, the point of MK is for people to buy the game in exchange for fun. You're paying for something to enjoy. If MK has managed to be one of the most successful games to date, it means it's an overall good game. It's not perfect, yes the gameplay could have more features and be more intricate and be more errorless or whatever, but it's good enough to let it be enjoyable.


You've got to be kidding me, hon. Superpowered characters have always existed in MK. Shao Kahn once sucked the souls right out of almost every earthling's body. What Armageddon says in its intro about "superpowered characters causing the apocalypse" is only the excuse the MK team inserted for their plan to let characters die so they could move on to next-gen.

And like what Ahnka says, I also can't believe you're taking probably the worst MK game ever so seriously. Half of it was shit, the rest was copied from other games, only a few new things about it were good, and one of them was not the story (not to imply that some recent bios haven't been good).


I'm sure that when next-gen characters die, they'll be resurrected in later games. It goes hand-in-hand with MK.


Story-wise, you mean? I still think it's preposterous to kill off entire characters just for what their short little bios say.


Exactly. So how is it fair for certain characters to return solely because some people like them while others get the boot solely because of their bios?

That's as ridiculous as skin-color prejudice; judging for what's not even most important or fair. Like what Ahnka said, it's not some characters' fault they have lame stories, but if they do, it doesn't mark them as cheap necessarily. Baraka for instance. He's still popular.

Also, about character evolution, it doesn't always occur in the story department. Gameplay-wise, a character can become much better and therefore much more likable. Li Mei for example. She was dressed in a somewhat casual outfit (primary) and had just decent moves, but in MKD, her look was improved with more kick-ass qualities and her moves are much flashier and more impressive. The same thing has happened to Ermac. He wasn't a huge star in the 2D games, but look at him now. Sindel's levitation move is doing great things for him.

Also Sindel is a different example. Everyone knows she wasn't taken to her potential in MKD/MKA, so I don't think it's fair to throw away characters like her who walk around with such appealing and memorable character ingredients that simply haven't been presented in as flashy and impressive kick-ass styles like Li Mei.

And LOTS of characters haven't been presented to their best, or even a good degree. Like if Sonya still had her leg grab and a comic-booky appearance like in MK3, she wouldn't be taking a back seat to Kitana these days.

I've agree with queen sindel. Like it or not, its true, nobody ever stays dead in mk, and they shouldn't, ITS A FREAKING VIDEO GAME, not a damn novel. They can kill all they want, but based on video games in generel, these characters will return some how. It may be 20 years from now, but the point is, they'll return. You can't permantly kill off anybody in a fighting game, why u ask? idk right now,lol, its 2 freaking in the morning and i'm tired. And you want to know how can the MK4-MKD new characters become our new classics? Easy, revampment. Revamp them. And just go on ahead and keep taking MKA seriously. The mk team are not even thinking about mka, they are trying to fix the game engine for mk8. Don't be shocked if they just stop posting the bios.

Yes, I know that there are Mokap fans. If I'm not mistaken, I even said that before. So what if there are Mokap fans? Does this mean he shouldn't die?

I'm being selfish, because I have my own opinions? What about you?

Let me ask you something. How does not killing off anyone do anything really good? And don't say that it gives a chance for some of them to come back. Do we really need characters like Goro, Baraka, Kintaro, Mokap, and Moloch to return?

If Sub-Zero were to die, I would be disappointed. However, if his death is at least done right, with proper closure being given to his story, it won't be as bad.

The point of Armageddon was to provide some closure. Keeping all of the kombatants alive serves no real purpose and would make things a joke.

So what MK is a video game and not a novel? What point are you trying to make, that the story in MK has no real impact due to resurrections or something?

So you don't know why you can't permantly kill off anybody in a fighting game? So much for your arguments.

The MK are trying to fix the game engine for MK8? Wrong. They are starting from scratch. Why would they just stop posting the bios? You make it sound as if no one in the MK team cares about the story. If that's what you're trying to say, then you're wrong.

QS: MK has been keeping Midway going for some time, but they can't just keep relying on MK alone. The gameplay needs to step up and get with the times or it'll forever be doomed. Thankfully, they are at least starting the gameplay from scratch though that doesn't necessarily mean successful results.

Yes, I know that superpowered characters have always existed in MK. The point I was making was that TOO many of them would cause the destruction of the realms.

Regarding the next-gen characters, maybe some. But then again, we aren't quite certain what the future holds.

I don't know why you have to compare what I was saying to skin-color prejudice.

Like I said about the story, not everyone can be stars. But that shouldn't mean that there should be flat, 1-dimensional characters. Do we really need Baraka again and again just because he has a fanbase?

Gameplay-wise, a character can play one way in one game and another way in another game. It is more easily changeable than story is. Li Mei started out a more simplistic character in MKDA, but in MKD, she progressed into something more.

For characters like Sindel, the difference between someone like her and Baraka is that there could be better potential for exploration, especially since she hasn't been in many games. Baraka, on the other hand, has been in MK since MK2 and has done more or less the same type of thing. At least Sindel does something different and that her character concept gives her potential for exploration. Baraka is just some vicious monster who serves a powerful master out of tradition or whatever and has potential for betrayal even though he never seems to do it. But even if he were to, it'd be predictable and cliche.

So I think that it goes beyond just the bios and what's being said in them, but also the characters themselves.

As I had said before, not everyone can be pleased. I'm sure I'll be just as disappointed as you or Ahnka if certain characters were to go and not come back. However, not killing anyone would not please everyone, and I'm not speaking solely for myself. And this isn't just about the story either. I'm sure there are people who just want to see some characters go, and not for story reasons, but just out of disliking some of them.

Everyone has characters they like and don't like. Is it wrong for me to be entitled to have characters I like and don't like? Is it selfish of me to want to see some characters go and not come back? What about those who don't want any characters to go? Does that make them unselfish or something?

Characters like Baraka have had their chances. I would rather see someone like Li Mei, Sindel, or Jade be given more chances since their concepts give them enough potential and that they haven't been in many games.

But for most characters, it won't be done right. They're all just gonna die in battle together. They won't die in special ways. Like if Sindel dies, I'd like to see her go by sacrificing herself to save Edenia or something. But we all know she's gonna die in battle, like most other characters. That's stupid. "Armageddon" is stupid.

And how would too many superpowered characters bring down the realms if only a select few are seen in each game (MKA doesn't count)? Either way, most characters aren't strong enough to destroy entire realms, even with collective destruction from several kombatants. Only the huge bosses and gods would be able to do that, I think. What Armageddon says in its intro is crap; an excuse for Midway to drop what it has and move on to next-gen.


Lol. My point was that killing off most characters is as stupid and unfair as skin-color prejudice. I guess I could have used a different example, but the point is.... it's stupid and unfair.


Granted, we have some 1-dimensional characters in MK, but are there certain things that compensate for their 1-dimensionality? Baraka... Appealing look, cool style, bad-ass fighter, scary in a fun way, etc. So yeah, story doesn't constitute most of a video game character's likability and charisma. It only helps, or in some cases, like him, doesn't, which doesn't render him a shitty character in the end if he's got other qualities that compensate.

Characters like Dairou who's appearances don't even fit into MK and have an overall boring and empty flavor to them should die, not characters like Baraka who can represent the series and accumulate thousands of fans much, MUCH better.

See, you keep putting story first still. Even though u say that doesn't matter to u first, u still do it. "Baraka should leave cuz he does the same things over and over in his bio." Bios aren't the main thing of MK. Playing the game, as the characters, IS. One can play the game without ever coming across a bio, u know. An ending, well it's unavoidable if u pass the game (unless they bring back the boss' hidden treasures, which I'd much prefer), but bios are unlockable and can be completely ignored. Meaning, their a side feature. MK treats thing specially cuz their a continuous and prominent feature, but their simply additional things nonetheless that only partially affect the game itself.


A character can be "read" one way in one game and the another way in another game as well. What matters isn't story or gameplay alone, but the success and likability of a character overall; the end results.


Yes, characters like Bo Rai Cho and Mokap who aren't as serious and comic-booky feeling as other characters. Baraka is not a character that is generally disliked.


I never called you selfish. Regarding this topic, I just think you're not grasping the whole picture. You're judging characters for their story and not for their overall charisma and success as members of the series. And in terms of "helping the series," star-quality characters being eliminated will not help it at all. I'm hoping next-gen gets some awesome and alluring characters, cuz other wise, it'll just turn out to be another boring MK4.

I agree. He keeps acting like he's not puting story first, but yet he keeps subcounciously saying characters should be killed because of their bios. Baraka is a little stale in the story department, but theres more to a video game character then story, its looks,moves and the over all feeling of liking them. Don't keep giving me this bulshit that you are not putting story first but yet you turn right the fuck around and do the same thing. And when i called you selfish, i said it because if you were really trying to understand us, you would have been got the point we are trying to make pages ago. But you're so intent on passing your little none sense opinions off as fact and is not even reading our posts. I said it once, and i'll say it again, i'm done. Quit trying to act like you know what we are talking about when you know that you dont care. So i'm done with running in circles with you. Queen sindel, he's all yours. And my final say on this matter is. Go ahead and kill as many characters you want off....but it may be 1,2,30,50 years from now, but those characters WILL return. why? because its a VIDEO GAME. And yes, that was the point of MKA. But MKA was supposed to be alot of things. And one of those things were closure, which it did not bring.

QS: I know what you and Ahnka have been trying to say, but things like looks, moves, and popularity alone should not be why certain characters should just come back. Yes, there's also charisma and "star-power", but deciding which characters should return should be based on a combination of various factors, not just those or just the story. I did also bring up character concept.

I don't see how Dairou's apperances don't even fit into MK when his design seems very Asian-themed.

Like I said before, gameplay can change. As can be seen in MKDA-MKA, some styles are given to others later on.

When it comes to judging characters, I judge them from different perspectives, not just from story perpsective. However, story perspective is an important factor in regards to who should return and who shouldn't, not just things like popularity.

Ahnka: You have to understand that story is one of the most important things to me in MK, but that doesn't mean I put it above gameplay. If you keep thinking gameplay in terms of just fan factor and not actual quality, then you still don't understand. The quality of the fighting mechanics is not a factor in who should return and who shouldn't.

I know that there's more to a character than just his/her story. But the fact that you can't acknowledge story as an important factor is why I have to keep going around in circles with you.

I'm done with morons like you who are shallow and ignorant. MKA is trying to bring closure with the bios and also with MK8.

Maybe all those characters will return, but not in a main game. It may be a side game (a.k.a. Shaolin Monks), but other than that, you can just say what you're saying as if it's something definite.

You keep saying that I don't understand and that I don't even read your posts yet it's you who doesn't understand. The fact that I had to explain things to you more than once yet you still failed to understand shows your ignorance and hypocrisy.

But whatever, I'm done with this stupid thread. You can't even give a legitimate answer to my question so why should I continue any further? At least even QS and I can agree some things, if only very few.

Sub-Zero_7th

LMAO. oh man, my point exactly again. So if you are saying that NOT ALL stories happened while SOME of them did, how do we really know which ones to believe? U see. U don't really know until the next game comes out, for example: Scorpion learns that Quan Chi is the real killer of his family and clan. Did we know that the next game, MKDA would be based on that fact along with Quan Chi and Shang Tsung becomming an alliance? No we didn't. It just so happens that it did. Why didn't they stick with the ending where Shinnok kill Raiden, the God of Thunder and protector of Earth Realm? They could have but they didn't. Either way we would have believed that it was apart of the story no matter which ending from MK4, the team decided to focuss on. So that just proves that most endings that happen are just for OUR entertainment. I am deffinatly not saying that the endings or the story doesn't matter cus it does. BUT that should not determine what fighters survive or die off. See I don't think YOU are reading what I'm trying to get accross here. Another example: In MK4 Sonya, Jax and Jarek's endings are all the same, just different outcomes. Sonya is killed by Jarek in Jarek's ending, She kills Jarek in her ending and Jax kills Jarek in his ending. YET sonya happens to be in the next game MKDA.
And Jarek comes back in armageddon. And as far as the top row thing goes with Scorpion who is my favorite character also, Sub-Zero was on the very top also, and for the same reason: Popularity. And just because Scorpion is my favorite character, don't tell me that he's gonna be in MK8 so I should be happy. I already know this but that is not the issue here. If the next game only had Scorpion and Sub-Zero, while the rest of the roster were completly new characters, IMO that game would suck. You just can't kill characters like Reptile, Noob, Baraka, Shang Tsung, Nightwolf, Sindel, Cyrax, Smoke, Kitana, Mileena, Jade, Kabal, Ermac, and even Kurtis Stryker just to name a few. I still have many more to name but u should get the point. I'm not saying that they ALL should be in the next game but they SHOULDN'T just die man. These characters, no these fighters, I just named are very popular to the franchise and not to mention CLASSICS.
Imagine a Dragon Ball Z game without Goku and Vegeta. Imagine a street fighter game without Ryu and Ken. Now imagine a Mortal Kombat game without these people that were named. Can you really live with that if they were to NOT EVER return?

Yes.


Now I know what bothered me when i read through your gramatically felled post, but now I know it for certain. Alas, this is why your complete argument and the only recurring justification is flawed. Utterly and irrevocably flawed.
You do not seem to grasp the difference between an alternations in the endings (the what-ifs) and the retcons (Scorpion wow). On another note:

You never work your trustworthy mule to the death.

Bye bye hun, it was a pleasure And here you go putting words in my mouth once again. Honey, you don't know shit about me. I AM A MK STORY EXPERT! So don't come at me like i'm some dumb noob who has no idea what MK's story is and whats it about. I said it a million times before, STORY IS VITAL. One of the reasons i hated mka was because it lacked in story, mka was supposed to be a story game, all about story, but it wasen't. MKA was supposed to be ALOT of things, but it wasen't. Gameplay and story both go hand and hand. And proof from every other fighting game has shown that characters they killed off will return in a main game. Who thought we would ever see nightwolf again mk6? who ever thought we would see stryker again in mk7? And once again, MKA is not as serious as we thought it was. We are NOT getting closure with the crappy bios they post every two months. If MKA was serious about its story, then we would have had bios in the game, we would have had REAL finality endings and a way longer konquest.

>
Yes that's true, which is why I've been saying that the overall likability of a character is what ultimately matters, and it just so happens that story doesn't constitute most of a character's likability.

Look, story has always influenced some characters in one way or another. Shujinko is old as hell because his "quest for the kamidogus" took him that long. His appearance was influenced by the story, and his moves too for that matter.

Isn't it enough to have one or a few characters influenced and brought back solely for story purposes? Do we really need to let the successful characters be overshadowed by their own bios? I think that's irrational. Fun characters are what matter in a video game, and for the reading fans of MK, a few characters being controlled and influenced by an additional feature is fine to me, but MOST characters definitely isn't since this is a game.

So if story doesn't go first for you, why do u still think Baraka should die off?


Li Mei (MKDA) looked Asian-themed. Dairou looks ugly, and not fun or cool ugly like Baraka or unmasked Kabal, I mean ugly ugly as in "Your so damn ugly that everytime your mom looks at you, she says to your dad 'Damn, I should have just given you head'" (joke).

Kombatants tend to look interesting and/or bad-ass. Dairou doesn't look like either, imo. Those rags that he wears don't make him look like someone from the MK Universe even though they may appear Asian-themed.

Anyway, one reason why I think MK has been so successful is because of how cool its characters are. Have u played Marvel: Ultimate Alliance? Well it's boring gameplay didn't stop it from becoming a hit game, and I'm sure the reason why was because it allowed you to play as the awesome characters from the Marvel Universe. My point is that, I understand story matters, and it only makes sense that it should influence 1 or a few characters per game, but in the end, what's most important, is having a great selection of attractive, memorable, and even inspiring characters to play as. Additional features, like story shouldn't control anything serious outside maybe 2 or 3 characters per game, and some arenas of course.


Your posts make me laugh. There is just something so laughably pretentious about the way you talk.

Anyway, what "whatuknow" is saying is right. Story doesn't affect much of the game itself. Characters die because that's amusing, but they return in later games because they're popular no matter what their endings say. Meaning, what should determine who returns and who doesn't, if anything, should be popularity, at least for most of the characters. Classic characters shouldn't be the ones who return because they're old, they should return because they're the best the series has had. They haven't been topped by any new sets characters. Now MK8 is gonna put an almost entirely new set of characters in place of the best, saving only a tiny amount of classics. That doesn't sound ominous to you?

I don't even be understanding chrome. I just ignore his senseless babble.

And as for sub 7, its funny how he saids he understands us but yet he brings up the exact point we are trying to make but act like its something new. lol. Anyway, i guess thats the end of this arguement. the point has finnaly been revealed.

LOL oh man, I'm done conversing with you people. You guys are insane man. Well at least I have 2 people that understand me. I'm glad we understand each other Queen Sindel and ProfesserAhnka.

Same here. You read too many dictionaries, hon. And, by the way, I'm sure you don't talk like that in real life. Otherwise, everyone would think your wierd. It's an extremely ungrounded and arrogant choice of syntax and diction you got there. But, that's just how I see it. Your uniqueness is appreciated though, cuz there are too many of the same kind running around. But I still don't like you.

There's plenty of "MkBibles" around here. Not to mention "Fight Night" where, if you were present, Boon, Vogel, and Team answer these very kinds of questions directly for us about what parts of the story is cannon or not. "Shujinkos' story is cannon"...."Shijinko killed Onaga...not Sindel and Kitana"....ect

I didn't say it first, Boon did. lol



Good point. You're starting to understand that story does in fact, dictate what characters come back in future games.

That senario makes Scorpion relavant to the following games' story-line. It's a small example of the point we're making.....the point you dis-agree with.



Because the entire "story-theme of Mortal Kombat henges on "Earth vs Evil". If Shinnok were to kill Raiden as a cannon story-line, "the forces of evil could simply invade earth and essentially, end the "Mortal"...in Mortal Kombat.

Wouldn't have been a very lucrative story-plot to follow if Earth ceases to exisit. imO, of course..



The entire game itself is "just for our entertainment", so what's your real point?



Read you own example with Scorpion....YES it did. Yes it should, Yes it has. And you typed it.

The worst part of this idealism for me is that, nobody would ever "die" if nothing "killed off" any characters. How shallow would any fighting game be
if there wasn't a story at all? It's alot like taking your favorite band and saying, "It doesn't matter if they play well as a band, as long as people like what the band memebers look like."

To argue the opposite would be redundant because, A "persons//characters story kills them." The band Nirvanas lead singer for example...I know what happend (the story) to him and I don't even like that type of music.



Yea, that's explained as "soft story telling" and it's one of the problems I/we keep pointing out. General census would imply that the "forces of good" overcame the "forces of evil" in that case. Basiclly, Jareks' not gonna take out Sonya or Jax. So, we could all justifiably assume the Special Forces
kicked Jarek off the cliff and he died. Considering....you don't usually live through shit like that.




Why.....Not? It's the nature of the damn game. "People"/Mortals are supposed to die. Kill them off through their stories.



If they're mortal.....they should die at some point. Why not Armegeddon? Aheh, the only questions left are "When and How". Liu Kang for example. He can't very well stay the Champion forever.. Lol

Now, if they are immortal, they should be seceptable to the consequenses of mortality somehow...as is Raiden. Either that, or "occupied", or "confined" for long periods of time.....Like Shang Tsung, Shinnok or Shao Kahn, or Onaga...OR the One Being were before their appearances in Mortal Kombat.

-----

FuR-Ther-More..This doesn't consider fan favorites like Scorpion or Sub-Zero. But in considering fan favorites, they should be made important to the main story-line and plot. Sub-plots are fine, and they help flesh out characters, but it should be understood WHY they are in the game besides JUST being a fan favorite.



I do understand, but it doesn't take away the fact that characters in this game should be killed off or should die. Mortals don't live forever..

A couple points you guys made in the beginning were:

1. "They might wanna bring them back in the future."

2. "Fan Favorites."

3. "Story shouldn't dictate the fate of a character."

4. "Characters make the Gameplay better."

All of these have been more than efficiently answered for you, so wtf are you still arguing about? What's left that you don't have a clear grasp on?

None of you have made adequate points on "why not". You're just being stubborn because like QS(tB), you essentially don't like the idea of actually KILLing OFF any characters. Fear change.

The problem here is that you are mis-informed within your own opinion. And on top of that, you're continually mis-conscruing a couple of the best Story-knowlegable people on this site: XiahouDun84 & Sub-Zero_7th.

LmaO...

Other than that there's nothing wrong with your opinion.

Wrong. Jarek could have killed Sonya and Jax. Didn't Shang and Quan take down Liu Kang in MK5? I'm sure no one saw that coming.

It's all a matter of choice that the developers make. You can't actually assume anything until the next game comes out. And if Raiden would have been killed by Shinnok... He would have been resurrected, so it was indeed possible for him to die.


Yeah, and mortals are also not suppose to throw fireballs, fly, and be crossing into different dimensions, but the kombatants DO.

MK is fiction and fantasy. Stop trying to force unnecessary real-life elements onto it. Ed Boon said it himself...

"Reality is boring. Nobody wants to pay for reality." And he said it well. You want the kombatants to be absolute mortals? What a boring joke. They'd suck!

So what u said is flawed. You don't want them to die because they're mortals, since that would mean you also don't want them to have powers and be able to perform impossible tasks like teleportation and pulling skeletons out of people. You want them to die for another reason, clearly. What is it? An improved story? ...That is possible using our current cast with just a little revampment.


See, this is just flat-out stupid.

Why should Scorpion and Sub-Zero get special treatment and not the rest of the fan favorites? EVERYONE should be important to the main storyline, except Scorp and Sub? It's okay for them because they're fan favorites, but not for the rest of the fan favorites?

And you ARE given an answer as to "Why they are in the game" because every character comes with bios. They all have SOME purpose, whether it is boring to u (stale, unimportant) or not.


Wrong. If you've read my posts carefully, you should know that I keep bringing up "high quality" a lot. It's not change itself that I fear, it's losing high-quality characters in exchange for "new" characters that'll mostly likely suck in comparison.

And the first time you brought up "high-quality" I told you that in this game... that's a figment of your imagnation. HAHAHA!

The "change" we're talking about...(or trying to talk about) here is KILLing OFF characters... no matter who or what "quality" they are. And you don't like that......The only "quality" you're referring to anyway.....is looks. So it seems.
________________

Read carefully before you quote. THeN try to make a point.. It's just good conversation etiquette.

Since when did I let you to talk on such personal to me, or about me? Stop assuming anything your limited understanding about linguistics offers on me.

oh god. What in the hell are we fighting about now? you know what, this can be closed.

Par excellente.