Bringing back the Dead. Seemingly good souls going to hell
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posted03/19/2015 03:20 PM (UTC)by
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colt1107
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07/06/2007 12:58 AM (UTC)
I wish they would finally make this a plot point in the story as to why seemingly good souls get trapped in the netherrealm which we all relate to as hell in the MK universe. Is it due to Shinnok possessing a power over the dead souls(that aren't consumed by the likes of Ermac, Shao Kahn, and Shang Tsung) that he gets to pick and choose which souls get trapped within the realm he possesses? Or is it a power Quan Chi possesses that Shinnok looks to in order to strengthen his army?

I really wish Netherrealm studios would address this issue in some form. I think it would add greatly to the lore of the game like the Lazarus Pits in Batman. Let's say killing a character like Shinnok or Quan Chi disables the ability to revive dead characters. We still have the Jinsei in earthrealm that could revive a dead fighter and they don't necessarily have to go to the Netherrealm or heaven(?) to come back. I do believe everyone wants to see their beloved characters who have died come back to life in future installations of MK and I don't view the revival of them as a bad thing as some users on here do. I really just want some form of an answer as if there is a heaven or not in the MK universe. And if so Why doesn't protecting your realm from evil get you a ticket there?
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krajax
03/19/2015 07:35 AM (UTC)
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Somebody should tweet this question or link this thread to Kittelsen or Boon. We of all people would like to have this question answered.
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gyrodeth
03/19/2015 08:19 AM (UTC)
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They must've all chosen the wrong religion.
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Joe-Von-Zombie
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03/19/2015 08:25 AM (UTC)
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gyrodeth Wrote:
They must've all chosen the wrong religion.


Damned mormons...
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Killamore
03/19/2015 09:14 AM (UTC)
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I'm sure Johnny was going to heaven after MKII, but then was like nah I want to fight again.

I believe most of it has to do with the souls. We have multiple sorcerers who seemingly have the ability to take them instead of letting them transcend to wherever they should be going.
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Spaceman
03/19/2015 09:48 AM (UTC)
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I think death in MK is more like death in Greek mythology. Like all dead people go "across the river of sticks" to the same realm ruled by Hades (or Shinnok in MK's case). There are Gods and stuff, but there really is no heaven. The elder Gods are just chillin on their own version of mt. Olympus somewhere. Whether you're bad or good your soul goes to the same place. In the Netherrealms case Shinnok and Quan Chi just happened to take it over and are running the show now. Pretty sure in an old Shinnok bio or mythologies it mentions how he over threw Lucifer (aka Hades) even. Not positive on that last part tho.
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whatuknowaboutMK?
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Winter is Coming A Lanister always pays his debts You know nothing Jon Snow! We do not sow! Valar Morghulis

03/19/2015 10:11 AM (UTC)
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I think you have a point. Never really thought about it but with no mention or any real evidence suggesting that there is a Heaven in MK (besides the existence of the Gods and Elder Gods) the "Church" stage (MK9) seems pointless and random. Then again, it doesn't look like a God fearing church either now does it?
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Onaga
03/19/2015 12:12 PM (UTC)
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Johnny and Scorpion were both sent to the realm of heaven at one point.

The only reason our heroes went to hell is because of some kind of bullshit Shao Kahn pulled and also I think the rules are sort of like the afterlife worlds in Spawn. A soul can be meant for one place but can easily be snagged by the other hence why Scorpion ended up in the Netherrealm.
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DG1OA
03/19/2015 12:45 PM (UTC)
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It could have to do with the way they died. Even though I know realism isn't MK's forte, I still have a hard time believing one could die like they did and go to heaven as if nothing was wrong.

It's also possible that they felt Raiden's absence damned them, and wanted revenge at that point. They had just enough evil for Quan Chi to corrupt their souls.

Let's remember that plenty of them weren't exactly boy/girl scouts. Kitana and Jade have been assassins for Shao Kahn for thousand of years, Smoke and Sub-Zero were also assassins (plus Smoke is partially a demon), and Kabal was once Black Dragon.

I admit Nightwolf's presence in hell was a little, well, confusing, not only because he wasn't particularly evil, but because unlike the others, he sacrificed himself. Then again, what he said to Scorpion about not clinging to the past could mean he was once like him, meaning that there was a little evil in his soul.

So yeah, I'm going with the idea that how you die can determine whether you go to hell or heaven. Why would an innocent person that was badly tortured go to heaven if they only died shortly after said torture? Part of them would want revenge, and their inability to let go could damn them to hell.

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Onaga
03/19/2015 12:53 PM (UTC)
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DG1OA Wrote:
It could have to do with the way they died. Even though I know realism isn't MK's forte, I still have a hard time believing one could die like they did and go to heaven as if nothing was wrong.

It's also possible that they felt Raiden's absence damned them, and wanted revenge at that point. They had just enough evil for Quan Chi to corrupt their souls.

Let's remember that plenty of them weren't exactly boy/girl scouts. Kitana and Jade have been assassins for Shao Kahn for thousand of years, Smoke and Sub-Zero were also assassins (plus Smoke is partially a demon), and Kabal was once Black Dragon.

I admit Nightwolf's presence in hell was a little, well, confusing, not only because he wasn't particularly evil, but because unlike the others, he sacrificed himself. Then again, what he said to Scorpion about not clinging to the past could mean he was once like him, meaning that there was a little evil in his soul.

So yeah, I'm going with the idea that how you die can determine whether you go to hell or heaven. Why would an innocent person that was badly tortured go to heaven if they only died shortly after said torture? Part of them would want revenge, and their inability to let go could damn them to hell.



Wuh? No. They ended up in Hell because Shao Kahn made some kind of deal with Quan Chi that he get their souls. That's it.

The only person who died and was angry with Raiden was Liu Kang because he thought Raiden was leading them to ruin and was succumbing to madness.
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DG1OA
03/19/2015 01:05 PM (UTC)
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Onaga Wrote:
DG1OA Wrote:
It could have to do with the way they died. Even though I know realism isn't MK's forte, I still have a hard time believing one could die like they did and go to heaven as if nothing was wrong.

It's also possible that they felt Raiden's absence damned them, and wanted revenge at that point. They had just enough evil for Quan Chi to corrupt their souls.

Let's remember that plenty of them weren't exactly boy/girl scouts. Kitana and Jade have been assassins for Shao Kahn for thousand of years, Smoke and Sub-Zero were also assassins (plus Smoke is partially a demon), and Kabal was once Black Dragon.

I admit Nightwolf's presence in hell was a little, well, confusing, not only because he wasn't particularly evil, but because unlike the others, he sacrificed himself. Then again, what he said to Scorpion about not clinging to the past could mean he was once like him, meaning that there was a little evil in his soul.

So yeah, I'm going with the idea that how you die can determine whether you go to hell or heaven. Why would an innocent person that was badly tortured go to heaven if they only died shortly after said torture? Part of them would want revenge, and their inability to let go could damn them to hell.



Wuh? No. They ended up in Hell because Shao Kahn made some kind of deal with Quan Chi that he get their souls. That's it.

The only person who died and was angry with Raiden was Liu Kang because he thought Raiden was leading them to ruin and was succumbing to madness.


All that means is that Shao Kahn was gonna get their souls, until he made that deal. Dying like they did could still doom them, deal or no deal. Being a soul trapped in Shao Kahn's body, Tsung's, Ermac's or Sindel's can't possibly be an heavenly experience anyway.
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alican_zero
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03/19/2015 01:05 PM (UTC)
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The Possesed ones : Kitana ,Kung Lao, Sub zero,Sindel, Jax and Nightwolf will posssibly turn out good or neutral yet they may no longer follow the leadership of White Lotus because of Raiden's failures and corrupted visions.furious
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DAEGON1
03/19/2015 01:08 PM (UTC)
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Killing is usually a sin and they've done that at least once. It's kinda implied that Johnny is the only one that hasn't, at least in the new timeline.
But yeah, in MK9 Quan Chi basically stole the soula of everyone that died, both good and evil. Except maybe Motaro and Shao Kahn.
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SaltyRice
03/19/2015 01:38 PM (UTC)
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Its kinda explained with Shao Kahn allowing Quan Chi taking the souls of fallen Earthrealm warrior in exchange for his service.

Normally they didnt really go to the Netherrealm and more it was Quan Chi taking their souls before they could go to heaven.

He resurrected them in the Netherrealm with the captured souls.

Theres your answer.
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The_TooCool_Master
03/19/2015 01:53 PM (UTC)
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It's part of the reason I don't mind the Sindel scene. Shao Kahn sacrificed one of his most powerful warrior to boost a mind controlled evil Sindel to powers beyond even Shang Tsung and unleashed her on his enemies that had just been forced throught a big fight with the Lin Kuei. Quan Chi had helped him gain access to earthrealm, and he paid him back by delivering everyone's soul at the same time.

Let's not forget Shao Kahn held the souls of everyone on earth during the invasion. When these guys died, their souls were sent to Shao Kahn who gave them to Quan Chi, who brought them in the Netherrealm to corrupt them.

Dying as a good guy does send you to heaven. You don't automatically go to the Netherream when you die if you have killed unless you've obviously been a bad guy. Hanzo was sent to the Netherrealm because he led a group of deadly assassins. Johnny Cage went to heaven after Motaro killed him before Raiden somehow ressucitated him. Raiden was shown to be able to fuse souls and bodies in his non-canon deception ending.

I'm fine with Shinnok and Quan Chi having the ability to ressucitate the dead if they want. They're the most powerful wizard in the realm where the dead villains go. Shinnok freed Onaga's soul from Nightwolf's seal before Armageddon. I just wish people weren't easily brought back to life on both sides.

Fact is, being dead in Mortal Kombat just means being a soul that can interact with the living or be brought back to life. Maybe one Shinnok and Quan Chi will finally be dead and the Elder Gods will make their presence felt to close the doors of hell and heaven forever.

Until then, death is just the next step of life.
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Denizen
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03/19/2015 02:32 PM (UTC)
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Shao Khan has mastery over souls, he can consume and control them at will, I think Shan Tsung's power over souls is because he's bound to Shao Khan. Ermac is loyal to the Emperor for that reason.

Now, only two characters in the MKverse have shown to have mastery over necromancy, Quan-Chi and the Dragon King. Quan-Chi's power was shown when he easily revived and corrupted Sindel in MK9

So why doesn't Quan-Chi revive powerful warriors constantly to build his own invisible army? simply answer, because he can't control them. His two most powerful servants (Scorp and Noob) were transformed and follow him on their own free will, he manipulated them into becoming his lackeys, with promises of power and revenge, he corrupted them and finally resurrect them. He can revive other warriors if he wishes to but they wont follow his orders, so it's a wasted effort. Unlike Onaga, who could revive and manipulate the will of the dead as he wanted it.

He could revive and corrupt Sindel because Shao Khan had control over her soul and transferred the control to him, same with the Earthrealm warriors, Kitana and Jade.

Their souls were transferred to hell, to Quan-Chi, what we saw in Raiden's chapter were their souls with physical form. I believe the Netherrealm has his native population, the demons, and million upon millions of trapped souls, doomed to eternal damnation, suffering constantly tortured, but without a true living body, just a soul with physical form, I make that distinction because ,without proper resurrection by a necromancer or some other higher force, they can't escape this plane without being resurrected.

The MK9 Revenants were already resurrected by the time of the Netherrrealm war took place, that's why they could abandon the realm and invade the SkyTower. They are "alive" but heavily corrupted.

So all that was left was to free them from Quan-Chi's control, the ones that got saved could already return to Earthrealm. This theory would explain why the rest of the dead can't return to their realms, they're still dead.

I really hope this is what NRS is going for, it would fill some plot holes and make death not so meaningless.
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krajax
03/19/2015 02:35 PM (UTC)
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KItana, according to that rumored bio was left behind after the Netherrealm War. I wasn't surprised because even though she joined the good guys against Shao Kahn, she did some terrible stuff serving her "father" by killing millions of people especially fellow Edenians as an assassin FOR A SPAN OF 10,000 YEARS. That's a lot of killing. However MK9 have failed to present that guilty scenario of her wanting to redeem herself like MK2 did. Killing more people under Quan Chi during the war also adds to the dark list. Maybe out of Kitana and Sindel, Jade gets resurrected because she killed far less people?...Yea still wondering about Jade's fate.
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Onaga
03/19/2015 03:20 PM (UTC)
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DG1OA Wrote:
Onaga Wrote:
DG1OA Wrote:
It could have to do with the way they died. Even though I know realism isn't MK's forte, I still have a hard time believing one could die like they did and go to heaven as if nothing was wrong.

It's also possible that they felt Raiden's absence damned them, and wanted revenge at that point. They had just enough evil for Quan Chi to corrupt their souls.

Let's remember that plenty of them weren't exactly boy/girl scouts. Kitana and Jade have been assassins for Shao Kahn for thousand of years, Smoke and Sub-Zero were also assassins (plus Smoke is partially a demon), and Kabal was once Black Dragon.

I admit Nightwolf's presence in hell was a little, well, confusing, not only because he wasn't particularly evil, but because unlike the others, he sacrificed himself. Then again, what he said to Scorpion about not clinging to the past could mean he was once like him, meaning that there was a little evil in his soul.

So yeah, I'm going with the idea that how you die can determine whether you go to hell or heaven. Why would an innocent person that was badly tortured go to heaven if they only died shortly after said torture? Part of them would want revenge, and their inability to let go could damn them to hell.



Wuh? No. They ended up in Hell because Shao Kahn made some kind of deal with Quan Chi that he get their souls. That's it.

The only person who died and was angry with Raiden was Liu Kang because he thought Raiden was leading them to ruin and was succumbing to madness.


All that means is that Shao Kahn was gonna get their souls, until he made that deal. Dying like they did could still doom them, deal or no deal. Being a soul trapped in Shao Kahn's body, Tsung's, Ermac's or Sindel's can't possibly be an heavenly experience anyway.


No it didn't mean that. That was just John Volgel and his bad writing telling us that bam Shao Kahn beat Raiden to the punch and that was the reason they were in hell now.

Allow me just to sink my finger into one more hole with your logic.

Johnny Cage was slaughtered by Motaro. His soul went to the heavens.

As for this if you kill your soul is damned. People, Nightwolf killed and yet his soul is said to be so pure he can not enter the Netherrealm.

The taint of sin just allows you to exist in the Netherrealm. It doesn't mean that's where you are going.
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