It must be 3D. The only reason they haven't been as good is because of the lousy choices in engine that they've used and the rubbish testing. Once they start making the right decisions and produce a decent 3D engine, the games will be alot better, provided all is tested and checked over.

It must be 3D.

Something I've expressed in a different post was that it should be 3D with 2D gameplay. It would have a sort of nostalgic feel with graphics that are a hell of a lot better than those of the first three games.

I think they did that in MK4....

These two posts ^ ^ sum up my sentiments exactly...



Indeed, it must be 3D.

If 2D and 3D are realistic, can their be a 4D visual, never thought about it, but is there such thing, and anyways, can mk7 use such visual as 4D if there is such thing...

i'm sure it will be 3d, i personally like it. i think it would be kinda neet to do most of the game like they have it in mk:da and mk:d, where you can move all around the arena, but then mix it up with a few pit stages where you are forced to fight in a 2d perspective with good camara posistion (like maybe zoom in on certain combos or what not, maybe pan the camara when you do a throw... that sort of thing) and then you can only send them off the edge into the pit after they say "finish him" (or what ever kind of death trap... acid, fire pit, mk 2 pit)

I prefer the 3D, but it still feels kind of like a blocked circled arena. I think the 3D arenas should be vast and varied. There should be large areas which provide for open fighting and then there should be small corridors that require different tactics. I also dislike being contained by invisible walls. A circle arena with eyecandy in the background is very frustrating.

The 2D fighting games didn't take much advantage of one of the dimensions that it had...height. Stairs, platforms...anything to give an advantage of height would be a nice addition as long as it is well thought out.

I agree that the fighting engine needs improvement, but MK will always be my favorite and I hope we have lots of arenas for the next game!

(btw, the 4th dimension is generally agreed to be time, in which case it would not be a visual element)

JadeofEdenia wrote:

"I prefer the 3D, but it still feels kind of like a blocked circled arena. I think the 3D arenas should be vast and varied. There should be large areas which provide for open fighting and then there should be small corridors that require different tactics. I also dislike being contained by invisible walls. A circle arena with eyecandy in the background is very frustrating."

I agree 100%. I really wish that the MK team would think outside the box (I hate that expression, but it's true) for MK7. The backgrounds in MK:D looked pretty cool, and I liked the multitiered arenas and deathtraps, but I never really got the feeling that I could make my character take advantage of the space in the arenas. Besides that, I thought that the types of arenas were very restricted. Either you got blasted through a wall or you off of one ledge to another arena (again, usually circular as JofE said) and then you fell into a deathtrap. How about knocking a guy into a river, but then he pulls you in so that you are both taken to a completely different area? That's just one suggestion. How about knocking characters through portals into different realms? Anything's possible if you're willing to think differently. MK6, to me, was more like MK:DA Plus and not MK6. New arenas, new characters, same graphics, similar moves and animations etc.

I'd like everyone to take the time and check out the 1 minute video of Virtua Fighter 5 from the JAMMA show. I'm sure you can find it at alot of the videogame sites on the net. Look at the characters, the backgrounds, the way they move, the way their clothes move. Despite the difference in hardware (VF5 is next gen if you didn't know), MK is lingering behind today's graphics (Tekken 5, SC 3 and heck, DOA3 which came out years ago).

So yeah, I think we need 3D graphics. I think that the MK team needs to put something out that will blow fans eyeballs through the backs of their heads. Can you imagine MK characters that look like those virtua fighter characters? I'm not here to wave VF in MK fans faces, not at all. I'm saying that I want MK to be BETTER than VF in graphics, gameplay etc. Adding a few new ideas to go along with some old characters returning and some new, equally unimpressive fighting styles while slapping a big "7" on the cover would be an afront to MK fans. I really hope they dig deep on this one for the next generation. Beautiful graphics for the characters and backgrounds, cinema quality intros and endings, more fighting modes and, oh yeah, a MUCH better fighting system. C'mon MK team, show us what ya got!

I had this debate with somebody here a while ago, and I took the side of "3D," because that's pretty much where the entire market is headed, that's where the big money is, that's what people want, and 2D is starting to fade out of the mainstream fighting game market a bit now.

However, it's become perfectly clear that Midway can't make a 3D fighter to save themselves (This may yet turn out to be a truth - a few more like MKD and their sales will plument, and seeing as how Midway relies so heavily on MK to keep afloat, if MK went under, Midway might too). So with this in mind, I think they should maybe revert back to 2D. I know in reality it's never going to happen, but that's where MK's roots are, and that's where the deepest gameplay has been, so it only makes sense.

They could make a 2D MK game and it could be far, far better than the recent 3D failures. Bring back the old LP, HP, LK, HK system with the basic universal commands for moves like sweeps and uppercuts, but give the moves different properties for different characters so that no two characters play the same, even though they share the same commands. For example, Sub-Zero's uppercut might launch quite low, but allow for a mix up between his slide and another mid move, while Scorpion's uppercut might launch high, allowing players to get the most out of air combo's using telepunch's, spear's, hellfire's, etc, while another characters uppercut may not even launch at all, but give a stun on CH, or something else entirely different. Same deal with every move, all moves, including the basic 4 HP, LP, HK, LK commands could be given different properties to encourage different styles of play - depth within simplicity (as opposed to the recent games that feature no depth within complexity).
Characters could be given a "special" move or two extra to compensate for the lack of moves in their movesets if necessary.

I don't know much about 2D fighter's, but i'd say that by using the old command system MK could return to it's roots of simplicity and start to work again. I'm willing to try anything new to save MK at this point. Problem is though, that Midway don't understand things like move properties very well at all, so if they can't give moves decent properties in a 3D fighter, I don't think they'd really know how in a 2D fighter either.

Just a thought though.

Whether or not MK should be 2D or 3D at this point, a universal system should be established for moves, espcially more intuitive staples that have been established already. When you watch other fighting games like Soul Calibur, Dead or Alive, Tekken, Virtua Fighter, etc. you can usually tell or make an educated guess on how a certain move is done, even if you only know how to play one character due to the universal and intuitive control system they have. If you play Soul Calibur, you know that if you tap A,A you're gonna get some decent horizontal slashes that hit high, but can stop sidesteppers. If you hit d/f+B, you know you're going to get an upward vertical slash that can generally lead to juggle opprotunies, etc. For other 3d fighters such as DoA if you hit say d/f+K you know you're going to get a midkick that will probably have good range and can CH into a sitdown stun. Universal things such as that will help the game immensely.

So as with the above poster, I totally agree on at least going back to the HP, LP, HK, LK system if not establishing a new one more uniform with today's fighters altogether, whether it be 2D or 3D. A big reason of why MK lost its pickup and play nature was simply because moves were randomly mapped onto buttons in an illogical manner that made playing MKD and MKDA the first few times quite weird. Add to the fact that MKD has so many buttons for such a small movelist that it's mind-boggling why it even exists. If you look at other fighters whose characters range from 60-120 moves vs. MKDA/MKD which only sports 18-25 moves in any given stance and you can see how problematic this can be. Especially when those games that have so many moves are mapped to exactly three buttons (block, punch, kick) and various combinations and motions that feel much more smooth and intuitive than MKD's 7 button system is appalling, especially when MKD generally has 1/4th the movelist of other fighters and most of which are useless.

As for whether MK should be 2D or 3D, to me either is fine as long as they do a good job. In 2D though, they should learn from other 2D fighters of basic innovations that have been around for a long time.

2D MK should remove the block button so cross-ups can be done, they should allow characters to cancel into specials (ex. Street Fighter's Ryu doing down middle kick > fireball), and they should remove chains in favor of cancels. Running can be kept, keep the jumping P's ability to be able to mount an on-the-ground offense (such as canceling a poke into a special) and keep the jumping K's ability to knock someone up for the deep-JK juggles that MK is signature for. Force people to block standing against jumps and not crouching, make throws not be cancellable simply by holding d/b. There are many many things, but a lot of it constitutes to perfect frame advantage/disadvantage and thus the ability to trap someone/escape traps when it comes ot 2D. Traps can range from simple things such as jab fireball, then fierce fireball when your opponent is in the corner and you are a few characters away from them (so they can't jump after the first fireball since the first one's execution is big, but disadvantage at the end is little after blocking the first one, but can jump after the second because its execution is small, and disadvantage is huge) to more advanced traps like Guilty Gear where you throw projectiles that move different ways and force your opponent into a defensive position while they have to defend your character's mixup closely. Some basic slow fireball traps such as Guile's Sonic Boom + mixup would be appreciated as well.

Hmm, tough decision for me. I would absolutely love to see another 2D MK game, as the older games are better than the 3D games. But I also want to see a new 3D MK game with improved gameplay (I mean extremely improved).

Also, the market wouldn't be happy to see a 2D game, because most people think that 2D games are too obsolete nowadays. But this isn't true, because Street Fighter 3 and the Guilty Gear series are great 2D games, and they make great examples that the 2D franchises aren't dead just yet.

The market would be happy to see a 3D game. Plus, more people would buy a 3D MK, no matter how crappy or great the game is.

I would have to say I would like a 2D fighting engine, but with 3D graphics. I just can't decide one way or another.

They should keep going with 3D, but it might be good to branch another MK series with the old style 2D.

Or maybe just make a 2D MK as a side game in the main 3D game.

I'm talking about a new 2D game, not an old one like MK3...

I don't think the 2D games would sell as well as the 3D ones.

2D does not sell well by the mass market. Product that isnt likely to sell = little funding/investment = not enough money = crap game.
3D is a must. Plain and simple.

To be honest, 3D is better anyway. Feels more open.

I actually like the way Midway is trying to make MK unique amongst modern fighters. The DA/D system might not have been the perfect solution, but atleast its not a carbon copy of other fighters. Im not saying they all are, but im saying that its extremely unique, which i like. In particular i like deathtraps, although they were implemented with a dodgy detection system. This is an execution issue not a creative one. The one problem with the interactive arenas, death traps, and such, is that the game isnt open enough, IMO.

I would like MK 7 to be truely unique, to find a mix between the standard 'locked' positions of most modern fighters, and the open movement of games such as Def Jam FFNY and wrestling games. Im sure many may disagree, but i imagine a system with reletively free movement, to direct the kombat towards obsticles to utilise, as you see fit, but at the same time, feeling 'fixed' enough that the game plays out with fighting game style combos, and a relatively (if slightly less strict) traditional locked perpendicular.

On 4D, the 4th dimension is disbuted to be either time or space. The fourth dimension techniquelly is involved in 3D games anyway.

I just wish that the next MK would use 3D, have 3D arenas with 8 way direction.. and yet when on a bridge, like the Pit 2, they are fighting in "2D" !!

I think that to ressurrect a totally 2D MK could work though.. you just have to have the right elements.. we certainly have all the power in the world for graphics.

Maybe they should test the waters with a PSP exclusive..

King of Fighters anyone?

I've read all these great 2D fighting game's used as examples except the one 2D fighting game that is probably the greatest of all time and stood for over 11 years at the top in arcades.

If anything at all this proves that a fighting game does not HAVE to be 3D to be good.

Pesonally I wouldn't care if they never made another 3D Mortal Kombat game (that is purely intended for fighting, unlike SM) and just went back to 2D and completely remade MK to today's standards. I used to love MK all up until it turned 3D. I kind of stuck it out with MK4 for a while but i always went back to UMK3 or MKT. Then MK:DA came out and I was like, WTF how is this Mortal Kombat? This is some totally different game with MK characters in it

2D.

No way! If the series is going to move forward they can't take steps backwards like this. Can you imagine what kind of criticism the game would get if they made the old system return? You would hear comments like "Same old shit we hated before!" etc. If anything the team needs to take what they have in terms of this engine's bugs and fix those. Next add the missing game play elements such as throw breaks, parries, wake ups, dashing and then take it a step further like adding new play mechanics. I was thinking of a super attack that each character could possess that would be a really powerful set of moves strung together in a skillful manner such as timed joystick-button combinations. This move must be initiated by a special command that can be linked (buffered) as an ender to a combo string or done as an individual move.

There should also be a meter build in order to gain access to these "Super" sets, to build meter you must perform a successful attack on your opponent. This will eliminate "cheesy" meter building tactics as in Streetfighter where players just turtle you and rapidly press the strong attack button to build meter.

This is how it will work:

f,d,f initiates your character's " Super Set" and on successful contact you get a slight pause with a Special effect letting you know you must enter Super set combo commands (each Character should have at least Two Super Sets to choose from)

Here's how the first one looks:

f,d,f(1+2) .......1,2,3,4,1,4........b,f 2 (Normal ender)

The Normal ender should end in something flashy but you should be able to cut the combo short for a custom ender if skilled enough.

Knowing that these move sets can be very damaging there must be a defense to them. In my opinion, if it will take that much effeort to start one it should take just as much to stop one.

In order to counter the Super set once attacked you must first know that combos pattern of high/ low hits and you must tap back for each high hit and down for each low hit. Your taps must be well timed and you must be wary of your opponents ability to use one Super Set or another to keep you on your toes. If your opponet goes for the full Super and you parried the entire set you will gain a large frame advantage. If your opponent cuts the combo short because he is being parried you gain a slight frame advantage because of the risk involved with using powerful moves.

The whole thing should flow like the Attack/Counter sequences of the old Kung Fu Flicks of the 70's Think of them as Brutalities done right! They are part of normal game play that can be used at any time and not a "Finisher" It should be MK's version of the Standard super in fighting games only you have way more control and satisfaction in completing them. However if you do finish your opponent with one you should get a flashy Brutality kill!

Stereoscopic 3D. :D